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 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

 ClockworkZion wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
Meh. Not really happy about this, but hey, it was expected.

Also, Belisarius Cawl is 10k years old. Since when did humans become immortal?

He's like 99.999999999999996% machine at this point, and likely spent a air amont of the last 10k years bouncing around the galaxy in the warp too.

I bet he is no more then 99.999999999999995

I hate the fluff aspect of this, but the models look pretty!

Unlike some of the doomsayers here, I don't think this will replace current marines, I think it'll function like the Deathwatch, or Grey Knights.

Simply an elite force that you can either tie into existing forces, or run an exclusive army.

But I don't think they'll phase out old marines, that simply wouldn't make sense in the universe they've created for themselves.

Maybe that's just the ignorant optimist in me.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

Considering this was literally the first official confirmation of them, no. No they haven't.

Have they ever explained why they don't just give every marine a heavy bolter? Or plasma gun?

New marines look good. I'll probably pic up a box of them for a SWA kill team when they're out.

These Primaris marines do look way better than the existing marines.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I hate the fluff aspect of this, but the models look pretty!

Unlike some of the doomsayers here, I don't think this will replace current marines, I think it'll function like the Deathwatch, or Grey Knights.

Simply an elite force that you can either tie into existing forces, or run an exclusive army.

But I don't think they'll phase out old marines, that simply wouldn't make sense in the universe they've created for themselves.

Maybe that's just the ignorant optimist in me.

I don't think they will phase them out in the fluff, just on the table top, once a viable army list is possible.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

Considering this was literally the first official confirmation of them, no. No they haven't.

Have they ever explained why they don't just give every marine a heavy bolter? Or plasma gun?

Because reasons.

I mean, even at the height of the Great Crusade? They didn't do that. It likely comes down to the fact that they're specialized weapons and blah blah blah.
It's like why we don't give every soldier a marksman rifle or a grenade launcher.
Reasons.

I keep having all the scenes in the terminator films running through my head when a newer style terminator turns up and makes arnie looks like yesterday's toaster XD

Well, I was more thinking. My marines are the Circa 1989 vintage space marines in all metal. So, 25-27mm marines. Putting 32mm marines next to them will cause these marines to tower over my older marines.

I play Red Hunters and Grey Hunters for my force. Which I am not really sure how these guys would fit into my army. They seem dangerously heretical.

 Mymearan wrote:
So, let's assume this is going to be a stealth upgrade, where the normal marines slowly get replaced/get no new releases until finally there is nothing but Primaris Marines... how would that affect the other ranges? Eldar for example are supposed to be really tall, but are dwarfed by these new marines. Would we get an across the board upscale of everything bar humans (Genestealer cults and Skitarii have basically nailed the scale already)?

That's a tough one. Eldar might just get new stuff like Rubrics that are a lot bigger.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... at the same time, I'm wondering what I should do with my hundred baby marines... they suddenly don't feel as cool :(

And there you've hit why this is a problem on the head, at least fluff wise (models are fine as far as I can see).

There is no way this can be spun that doesn't cheapen normal space marines, which just went from humanity's finest mass production supersoldiers to "I guess they'll do, they're no Indomitus marine though."

And sure, Custodes already fit the design space of "double space marine", but the distinction there is that they aren't mass produced. These fellows have been shipped out all over the galaxy and even have entire all-Indomitus chapters already.

Custodes can't even be produced anymore since we have no Emperor leading the project. And if they,re double Mares, then Primaris are the 1.5x Marines. Better, but not a complete showing up I bet.

Is this true?

Or been confirmed anywhere?

Or are all Custodes now supposed to be 10,000+ years old?!?

I have to admit, of all news concerning 8th edition this is the most boring one by far.
Yay, new Space Marines, we didn't have enough of those already. The centurion already didn't fit between SM and Terminator and now there's some additional special marine, as we didn't have Death Watch, Grey Knights and all kinds of snowflake rules for marines already. If you ask me they should have just said it's a new mark of armour from some forgeworld, job done.

Well, regardless, I'm gonna enjoy making these Primaris marines go splat with my Unforgiven.

Oh yes I am...

People complain when GW advances the lore

others complain when they dont

they can't win

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

Who would you say are the bestest of the besty best?

New recruits with slightly enhanced capabilities

OR

Veteran Astartes with hundreds of years of actual battle under their belt?

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

Why doesn't everyone just have a lascannon?

Models from the waist up are quite nice, from the waist down look like sigmarites and so it's a poor design.

The story hasn't moved far enough along to merit Marines 2.0 and they just seem very shoe horned and forced in. They could have milked this for months and possibly years before unleashing the kit.

Guilliman starts a secret project with Cawl but he needs supplies.

On the way to one place the Orks attack, bigger and better than ever they are led by a giant warboss - is he the new Beast? Could even be Ghazgull with a new cool model but put a new unit of big boys out to support the range.

They head to The Rock for these super secret supplies. They need the Lion's blood? How did they know? Cypher told them? Spooky. Oh no a nid invasion has happened and the Rock is in peril. Lots of new nid stuff.

They head to the Damocles gulf - what's this? mutated tau? New kit for them?

Etc etc and then once you've established how hard they fought for the materials, they get new marines.

Instead we've gone - Fenris damaged, Ultramar damaged - NEW MARINES TO SAVE THE DAY

Isnt this the equivalent of going from metal to plastic?

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
These Primaris marines do look way better than the existing marines.

I think it's the MK IV esque armour that does it. Nice to see something that references the Forgeworld designed stuff so well.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

Who would you say are the bestest of the besty best?

New recruits with slightly enhanced capabilities

OR

Veteran Astartes with hundreds of years of actual battle under their belt?

Well, considering the PR that GW is putting out on these guys, I fully expect one of these Primaris noobs to deck Dante with a single blow K.O right out of neophyte status.

"Bigger, stronger and faster - It's the Super Marines!"

Kijamon wrote:
Models from the waist up are quite nice, from the waist down look like sigmarites and so it's a poor design.

The story hasn't moved far enough along to merit Marines 2.0 and they just seem very shoe horned and forced in. They could have milked this for months and possibly years before unleashing the kit.

Guilliman starts a secret project with Cawl but he needs supplies.

On the way to one place the Orks attack, bigger and better than ever they are led by a giant warboss - is he the new Beast? Could even be Ghazgull with a new cool model but put a new unit of big boys out to support the range.

They head to The Rock for these super secret supplies. They need the Lion's blood? How did they know? Cypher told them? Spooky. Oh no a nid invasion has happened and the Rock is in peril. Lots of new nid stuff.

They head to the Damocles gulf - what's this? mutated tau? New kit for them?

Etc etc and then once you've established how hard they fought for the materials, they get new marines.

Instead we've gone - Fenris damaged, Ultramar damaged - NEW MARINES TO SAVE THE DAY

No offense, but your idea is horrible. Your argument is basically make the narrative spend months/years just for the sake of bringing them, that sounds an appalling concept to me, specially to non-marine players.

 Alpharius wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... at the same time, I'm wondering what I should do with my hundred baby marines... they suddenly don't feel as cool :(

And there you've hit why this is a problem on the head, at least fluff wise (models are fine as far as I can see).

There is no way this can be spun that doesn't cheapen normal space marines, which just went from humanity's finest mass production supersoldiers to "I guess they'll do, they're no Indomitus marine though."

And sure, Custodes already fit the design space of "double space marine", but the distinction there is that they aren't mass produced. These fellows have been shipped out all over the galaxy and even have entire all-Indomitus chapters already.

Custodes can't even be produced anymore since we have no Emperor leading the project. And if they,re double Mares, then Primaris are the 1.5x Marines. Better, but not a complete showing up I bet.

Is this true?

Or been confirmed anywhere?

Or are all Custodes now supposed to be 10,000+ years old?!?

In the background the Emperor individually made each Custodes. I don't know if they put something in the background about someone else doing it after the Heresy. He did make 10,000 of them, but something like 90% died in the Heresy.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

Who would you say are the bestest of the besty best?

New recruits with slightly enhanced capabilities

OR

Veteran Astartes with hundreds of years of actual battle under their belt?

It all depends. Are the Primaris being done ala the clones from Star Wars, with flash-learning implemented from birth? Or are they being done ala the current Space Marines where they take some kids and splice in some new organs and call the job a good 'un?

Because that's part of why the "veteran Astartes" are such tough customers. It's not simply the "hundreds of years of actual battle under their belt", it's also the whole "having been selected at a young age from living in what amounted to a hellscape" thing too.

Kijamon wrote:
Models from the waist up are quite nice, from the waist down look like sigmarites and so it's a poor design.

The story hasn't moved far enough along to merit Marines 2.0 and they just seem very shoe horned and forced in. They could have milked this for months and possibly years before unleashing the kit.

Guilliman starts a secret project with Cawl but he needs supplies.

On the way to one place the Orks attack, bigger and better than ever they are led by a giant warboss - is he the new Beast? Could even be Ghazgull with a new cool model but put a new unit of big boys out to support the range.

They head to The Rock for these super secret supplies. They need the Lion's blood? How did they know? Cypher told them? Spooky. Oh no a nid invasion has happened and the Rock is in peril. Lots of new nid stuff.

They head to the Damocles gulf - what's this? mutated tau? New kit for them?

Etc etc and then once you've established how hard they fought for the materials, they get new marines.

Instead we've gone - Fenris damaged, Ultramar damaged - NEW MARINES TO SAVE THE DAY

The end of 10,000 year long project isn't exactly 'sudden'....

For more info, peeps need to read the full news article on www.warhammer40000.com

The greatest controversy will be over whether they are known as nu-marines or bigly marines.

 Alpharius wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... at the same time, I'm wondering what I should do with my hundred baby marines... they suddenly don't feel as cool :(

And there you've hit why this is a problem on the head, at least fluff wise (models are fine as far as I can see).

There is no way this can be spun that doesn't cheapen normal space marines, which just went from humanity's finest mass production supersoldiers to "I guess they'll do, they're no Indomitus marine though."

And sure, Custodes already fit the design space of "double space marine", but the distinction there is that they aren't mass produced. These fellows have been shipped out all over the galaxy and even have entire all-Indomitus chapters already.

Custodes can't even be produced anymore since we have no Emperor leading the project. And if they,re double Mares, then Primaris are the 1.5x Marines. Better, but not a complete showing up I bet.

Is this true?

Or been confirmed anywhere?

Or are all Custodes now supposed to be 10,000+ years old?!?

Custodes, unlike Space Marines, are inmortal. All the Custodes have been handcrafted by the emperor. I don't know if it is confirmated, but I'm pretty sure that yes, the Custodes that remain alive are the last of the Custodes.

Personally, I'm gonna buy a Squad or two of this new marines to run them as my "Normal Space Marines" with my mix Inquisition/Imperial Guard/Sisters of Battle forces, so they seem more fluffy and scale better against the Cadians and Tempestus Scions models.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Kijamon wrote:
Models from the waist up are quite nice, from the waist down look like sigmarites and so it's a poor design.

The story hasn't moved far enough along to merit Marines 2.0 and they just seem very shoe horned and forced in. They could have milked this for months and possibly years before unleashing the kit.

Guilliman starts a secret project with Cawl but he needs supplies.

On the way to one place the Orks attack, bigger and better than ever they are led by a giant warboss - is he the new Beast? Could even be Ghazgull with a new cool model but put a new unit of big boys out to support the range.

They head to The Rock for these super secret supplies. They need the Lion's blood? How did they know? Cypher told them? Spooky. Oh no a nid invasion has happened and the Rock is in peril. Lots of new nid stuff.

They head to the Damocles gulf - what's this? mutated tau? New kit for them?

Etc etc and then once you've established how hard they fought for the materials, they get new marines.

Instead we've gone - Fenris damaged, Ultramar damaged - NEW MARINES TO SAVE THE DAY

No offense, but your idea is horrible. Your argument is basically make the narrative spend months/years just for the sake of bringing them, that sounds an appalling concept to me, specially to non-marine players.

No offence taken but you're kidding yourself on if you are anticipating this as a splash release. At least with a suggestion like mine you don't wind up with loads of kits dropped in to the range out of nowhere and the Xenos/Traitor players will get some pieces along the way. It's always going to be an Imperium focused game (never having a non space marine big box game for example) so while my idea isn't perfect, it is miles better than just having random stuff shoe horned in to the game as if it's always been there

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

Who would you say are the bestest of the besty best?

New recruits with slightly enhanced capabilities

OR

Veteran Astartes with hundreds of years of actual battle under their belt?

It all depends. Are the Primaris being done ala the clones from Star Wars, with flash-learning implemented from birth? Or are they being done ala the current Space Marines where they take some kids and splice in some new organs and call the job a good 'un?

Because that's part of why the "veteran Astartes" are such tough customers. It's not simply the "hundreds of years of actual battle under their belt", it's also the whole "having been selected at a young age from living in what amounted to a hellscape" thing too.

A possible explanation.

Another explanation that just came to me, and I'm honestly feeling a fool for not considering it, is that the old marines would undoubtedly venerate their old Boltguns and their machine spirits - strictly better weapons in every sense would not be enough to get a marine to abandon the sidearm that never abandoned him in hundreds of years of battle.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Kijamon wrote:
Models from the waist up are quite nice, from the waist down look like sigmarites and so it's a poor design.

The story hasn't moved far enough along to merit Marines 2.0 and they just seem very shoe horned and forced in. They could have milked this for months and possibly years before unleashing the kit.

Guilliman starts a secret project with Cawl but he needs supplies.

On the way to one place the Orks attack, bigger and better than ever they are led by a giant warboss - is he the new Beast? Could even be Ghazgull with a new cool model but put a new unit of big boys out to support the range.

They head to The Rock for these super secret supplies. They need the Lion's blood? How did they know? Cypher told them? Spooky. Oh no a nid invasion has happened and the Rock is in peril. Lots of new nid stuff.

They head to the Damocles gulf - what's this? mutated tau? New kit for them?

Etc etc and then once you've established how hard they fought for the materials, they get new marines.

Instead we've gone - Fenris damaged, Ultramar damaged - NEW MARINES TO SAVE THE DAY

No offense, but your idea is horrible. Your argument is basically make the narrative spend months/years just for the sake of bringing them, that sounds an appalling concept to me, specially to non-marine players.

"No offense but your idea is gak"

Made me chuckle.

Anyhow, I feel like maybe in the old system GW would have been able to phase out the "normal" Marines in the crunch.

This new system they're introducing however is heavily based on yearly updates, community input etc.

While they may give the Nu-Marines a lot of attention, I think it will be pretty hard to ignore "normal" Marines given the new format they themselves introduced.