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They show super strong stuff for everyone else, but when it comes to the Tau they show the nerfs. Why the heck would that inspire any confidence? At least show us something good to keep us calm.

Not calming down until I know we're not gutted. Not buying any more 40k if the final Tau rules are just terrible and they are one of the few non-viable factions like in AoS.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Orthon wrote:
Very little mention of what they are doing with Riptides in that Tau article. Riptide nerf, inc?

Hell naw son. We're goign to need those more than ever. If the Tau army is not made native BS4 then this armies viability is dead.

Why would they buff their to hit chance? They're fine being BS3 equivalents.

To be fair, we still don't know the rest of the Markerlight abilities.

We just know that 1 Markerlight hit=reroll To Hit rolls of 1 when firing at a unit that's been hit.

 Gamgee wrote:
They show super strong stuff for everyone else, but when it comes to the Tau they show the nerfs. Why the heck would that inspire any confidence? At least show us something good to keep us calm.

Not calming down until I know we're not gutted.

Crisis Battlesuits can retreat and still shoot. Mind you, Tau also kept Supporting Fire.

Stop trolling. Grow up.

 Gamgee wrote:
They show super strong stuff for everyone else, but when it comes to the Tau they show the nerfs. Why the heck would that inspire any confidence? At least show us something good to keep us calm.

Not calming down until I know we're not gutted. Not buying any more 40k if the final Tau rules are just terrible and they are one of the few non-viable factions like in AoS.

Rules changing from one thing to another isn't always a nerf. Stormsurges being able to retreat and shoot is a buff, since they'll never be wiped in one round (except maybe to another Superheavy or a Bloodthirster) and won't be made useless for a turn. Crisis Suits can fire all 3 guns independently at different targets natively, which is a pretty hefty buff by itself. Drones can take wounds for any nearby unit, not just the ones they're purchased for (assuming Saviour Protocols is on other Drone types as well).

Tau seem fine to me.

Supporting fire is useless to me as a mobile player. It just encourages gunline play.

Also crisis suits survive melee? Are you crazy? The new super turbo mortal wound melee insanity going around? I think your crazy.

That rule is just there to pacify us. Even in 7th ed Stormsurges are the weakest of the big super heavies durability wise. The sniper drones were also nerfed in damage they used to wound on 4+ because of their sniper rule. This sucks.

Tau "surviving" melee to shoot. Good joke. Very good. How about you try and shoot more than Tau now in 7th edition as Khorne Deamonkin. Good joke man.

Yeah but paying 12 points for an ablative drone? Or giving up the mediocre ML support we do have now? Is it worth it? What if they increase drone costs even higher? Doesn't seem like a viable idea to me even in 8th. No one takes drones in squads. No reason to.

I don't actually want them to release the new 40k. The daily snippets have made this thread an enormously entertaining read on my commute. I'll miss it when everything's available.


You can bet your heinie the sniper drone controller is a separate unit that provides a bonus to them. Already plenty of examples of this in AoS.

 Gamgee wrote:
Well the only thing I've seen is Tau nerfs in this update. Even things that didn't need them like the sniper drones. Why? They are already so useless to be never used so they had to make them worse?

I'm so sick of this BS.

Hahaha!!!

Please tell me you are trolling, and this is a joke.

It isn't a nerf, but rather an attempt to balance what is frankly a faction that is far too powerful. As Tyranid player I am sick of games against Tau where my force is render useless, and from what I have seen I don't honestly think that is going to change. Sure my army may last longer then 3 turns... so that is a gain I guess?

Dont even bother, he wouldnt be satisfied until Tau have 2+ to hit, double the shots and rending and 2+ saves on fire warriors.

So Pri-Marines


-Models-
Look great, the proportions look better and the armour looks like a good progression for Astartes power armour.

I especially like the Bolt Rifle.

and selfishly from looking at the pics they don't seem like they will be much larger than my own “tru” scale attempts.

-Rules-
I like the rules,

Their not a lot better than normal marines and i appreciate the move towards what i consider a fluffy marines rules to be.

-Fluff-

And here’s the bit i don't like, all I'm getting from the articles is “OMG their the best”

Not enough is known about the Fluff on them yet for me to do a full eye roll yet but were def at a half roll.

There needs to be a but….

OMG their the best but….
…..we cant make any more
….They have a shorter life span
….they lack initiative (as in the ability to think outside of the norm not strike last in combat ),
……..their just meat robots. (Girlyman and Cawl would prefer this but would make poorer soldiers in the long run)
…..their Thunder Warriors so they will go crazy/ have an aneurysm soon without warning.

Also IMHO one of the first pieces of fluff with them needs to be older marine schooling one/ showing one up through his experience etc then there will be an eye roll of epic proportions

-Overall-

The fluff on them is not exciting me but the model and rules to run a closer representation to how marines are in the fluff defiantly does.

To be fair, it has never made sense that veterans, ie Battlesuit pilots, aren't BS4 like veterans from comparable races... But it's been balanced out by the impact of markers. Making most units BS5 when using one light would be absurd.

If lights are toned down, only low ranking guys should have BS3 from a fluff perspective.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I love the look and stats of the new marines. I just hope there will be enough releases to make a full army out of them.

No way GW is going to miss that opportunity! Rest assured the Guillimarines will likely have a half-year solid of new releases, with a whole slew of Space Marine units and vehicles that will look the same but with a slight proportional shift.

Man it's gonna be confusing for people new to the hobby. "Why are my friend's new Space Marines way different than the Deathwatch guys I got for Christmas?"

We know that the Stormsurge has been nerfed or at least reworked.
Missile Pods (and also autocannons) are D3 wounds -1 save, so they are now better at dealing with light vehicles.
Crisis suits are better as they can fire 3 weapons a turn.
Markerlights just grant re-roll 1s to hit.
Sniper drones got buffed with more movement and can snipe out characters.

I expect the Fireblade to give +1 to hit in a bubble to 'Tau Empire' units.
I wonder how multiple markerlights work, as most markerlight carriers are dedicated carriers.
It would be excessive to get 4 markerlight hits that only allowed one set of reroll 1s.
This might be the age of special weapons on Pathfinders!

Caederes wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
They show super strong stuff for everyone else, but when it comes to the Tau they show the nerfs. Why the heck would that inspire any confidence? At least show us something good to keep us calm.

Not calming down until I know we're not gutted.

Crisis Battlesuits can retreat and still shoot. Mind you, Tau also kept Supporting Fire.

Stop trolling. Grow up.

THANK you.

Stormsurge has 10 weapons and they can all fire at separate targets?

I mean, I know most people won't pull shenanigans like this, but you know you'll eventually play someone that will make you rue the day 'split fire' became a thing!

 Kanluwen wrote:
If I'm going to be honest, I really hope that this is a sign there's a plastic kit on the horizon.

I could see the Firesight Marksman becoming a unit box like the Raptors for Stormcast Eternals, where it's the unit proper(Raptors) and a second unit(Aetherwing birdies) that are rolled into the same box.

I'd be fine with that as long as the points costs were reasonable and it wasn't a burden on the force org chart (or whatever they're calling them in nuhammer) and they are assigned independently as an option (ala the old commissars in IG).

Still working on the Q&A Roundup for Sunday and today, but thought this was worth sharing early:

Q: One d6 for both battlecanon and frag grenade? Why?
A: Hey Dalibor,
We take it you mean, as currently they have different sizes blasts?
A lot of weapons have been re-aligned in this edition.
The rest of the stats on those weapons are quite different.
Battlecannons also do multiple damage per hit, making them very useful against tough foes, where the frag grenade lacks stopping power, but is good for clearing light infantry - which is what it should do.

You'll have the rules for all guns soon enough, and you can compare the s[t]ats with full context.

The fluff is lackluster but......


Giant demi-gods walking among the humble mortals on tabletop and dioramas here we come!

A re-do for the Terminators would be most desirable.

 Gamgee wrote:
Well the only thing I've seen is Tau nerfs in this update. Even things that didn't need them like the sniper drones. Why? They are already so useless to be never used so they had to make them worse?

I'm so sick of this BS.

Yeap I'm definitely going to AoS for awhile. I think 40k is going to gak. Too much marines focus. I guess Eldar can come too as usual. Everything else will just die off and stay in the background I guess. 30k 2.0 incoming.

Good riddance! What a jumped-up, OTT reaction to tiny bit of information. The absolute worse kind of reactionary, inflammatory nonsense which plagues threads like these and are the reason GW hasn't shared information in the past. My first thoughts on Drones were "cool, they can snipe characters, 10 different attacks from the surge going to different targets, 3 firing weapons on suits"

Supporting fire is useless. If your wasting your ML on it the game is already over. It doesn't help mobile suit lists any either. It's a gimmick that is barely even used in the tournament scene.

"If" crisis suits can survive melee this means the Tau are a lot more melee viable as a whole, but I doubt it. They will probably just die nearly instantly unless crisis suits have like 4-6 wounds or something.

 Gamgee wrote:
Supporting fire is useless to me as a mobile player. It just encourages gunline play.

"It doesn't affect me, so it must be a nerf"

Also crisis suits survive melee? Are you crazy? The new super turbo mortal wound melee insanity going around? I think your crazy.

"I don't know what anything is going to look like so I'm just going to assume it sucks for me. This is a nerf based on nothing."

Grow up.

That rule is just there to pacify us. Even in 7th ed Stormsurges are the weakest of the big super heavies durability wise. The sniper drones were also nerfed in damage they used to wound on 4+ because of their sniper rule. This sucks.

Stormsurges were brought in 2s more often than Knights even saw the freaking tabletop. Just because they weren't as broken as Wraithknights didn't mean they were garbage. You're clearly trolling with this.

Snipers auto-wounding on 4s was dumb, and having a Strength is much better. They'll wound tough things on 4+ and any other infantry (including most characters) on 4+ or 3+, so they're as good or better than currently except against MCs which no one freaking brought in 7th.

Tau "surviving" melee to shoot. Good joke. Very good. How about you try and shoot more than Tau now in 7th edition as Khorne Deamonkin. Good joke man.

Maybe you should learn to play because if you're losing to Daemonkin as Tau, you might not even know what game this is.

 JoeRugby wrote:
So Pri-Marines


-Models-
Look great, the proportions look better and the armour looks like a good progression for Astartes power armour.

I especially like the Bolt Rifle.

and selfishly from looking at the pics they don't seem like they will be much larger than my own “tru” scale attempts.

-Rules-
I like the rules,

Their not a lot better than normal marines and i appreciate the move towards what i consider a fluffy marines rules to be.

-Fluff-

And here’s the bit i don't like, all I'm getting from the articles is “OMG their the best”

Not enough is known about the Fluff on them yet for me to do a full eye roll yet but were def at a half roll.

There needs to be a but….

OMG their the best but….
…..we cant make any more
….They have a shorter life span
….they lack initiative (as in the ability to think outside of the norm not strike last in combat ),
……..their just meat robots. (Girlyman and Cawl would prefer this but would make poorer soldiers in the long run)
…..their Thunder Warriors so they will go crazy/ have an aneurysm soon without warning.

Also IMHO one of the first pieces of fluff with them needs to be older marine schooling one/ showing one up through his experience etc then there will be an eye roll of epic proportions

-Overall-

The fluff on them is not exciting me but the model and rules to run a closer representation to how marines are in the fluff defiantly does.

Im pretty sure a lot of the "fluff" popping up is just bloggers excitement. they seem very excited and are probably over exaggerating things.

 warboss wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Sniper Drones with a 5+ to hit? What the gak is this. They were our only BS 5 unit int he entire codex.

*sigh*

This is bs. I was finally looking forward to actually using them and then they just gak on them. No point in even taking them.

I bet the rest of the army is 5+ an 6+ only to hit with ranged weapons too.

No longer boosting to hit on ML. I think the Tau are probably fethed this edition. They will never survive combat to fall back from and shoot back at.

I knew this was going to happen.

Yup. Another concern (at least for me) is whether or not suits finally get BS4 as standard. It always felt off that an experienced tau warrior in a big robot suit with nightvision and advanced sensors and targeting shot the same as a guardsmen with one month of basic training and an ironsight on his lasgun. In previous editions, I always took the BS +1 upgrade equipment but they got rid of that in the last two back to back practically codex releases. I'm not holding my breath but there is still a chance they didn't screw it up.

It always made me chuckle that Tau lack depth perception, yet their prefered mode of combat is shooting

Honestly, I hope tau remain at 4+ to hit standard on everything but drones (5+). With suits now being able to take and fire 3 weapon systems, AND leave combat and still fire AFTER overwatching multiple times with support fire, they really need to not hit as efficiently as marines to remain balanced. Remember, your suits will have 2-3 wounds standard and now get their saves from most things in combat and ONLY suffer battle shock sue to lost modles meaning your not going to get sweeping advanced again and are unlikely to suffer battleshock. So either they wipe you out, or you bounce away and still get to light them up.

Called the Crisis suit FLy rull as a replacement for Hit and Run.

Likely they can fall back in the Fight phase when its thier turnto swing. Will have to reread a bit to see the exact language used describing it.

 Gamgee wrote:
The new super turbo mortal wound melee insanity going around? I think your crazy.

Clearly you lack any sort of clarity to the situation at hand.

 Gamgee wrote:
Supporting fire is useless. If your wasting your ML on it the game is already over.

...lol?
Supporting Fire is far from useless. And it's not like using Markerlights during a Supporting Fire was worthless, seeing as how Markerlight hits only lasted until the end of a turn.

It doesn't help mobile suit lists any either.

...lol?

It's a gimmick that is barely even used in the tournament scene.

Because the tournament scene is based upon tabling someone ASAP.

"If" crisis suits can survive melee this means the Tau are a lot more melee viable as a whole, but I doubt it. They will probably just die nearly instantly unless crisis suits have like 4-6 wounds or something.

You know that not everything can deal out Mortal Wounds, right?

They were good because of "swapping them" and their high damage output not survivability. They had to bought in twos because when one got wounded too much another would go up front to take wounds. Knights can't be taken in squads if I recall or they probably would do that too.

If they somehow made it into melee I would be evaporated. Unless the Tau get significantly stronger across the board to survive melee and actually shoot on the retreat odds are I'm not making use of that rule much.

Also if the stormsurge is shooting 10 guns that are atr 2 ap - then what does it matter? Granted I doubt it will be that bad.

It all depends on what the stats of the Tau are now, but I have a real bad feeling from that drone stat line.

 Gamgee wrote:
They show super strong stuff for everyone else, but when it comes to the Tau they show the nerfs. Why the heck would that inspire any confidence? At least show us something good to keep us calm.

Not calming down until I know we're not gutted. Not buying any more 40k if the final Tau rules are just terrible and they are one of the few non-viable factions like in AoS.

The fact that you see nerfs tells us all we need to know about how your reacting. What I saw is terrifying for anyone that doesn't have a decent 100% focused shooting army.

 Jambles wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I love the look and stats of the new marines. I just hope there will be enough releases to make a full army out of them.

No way GW is going to miss that opportunity! Rest assured the Guillimarines will likely have a half-year solid of new releases, with a whole slew of Space Marine units and vehicles that will look the same but with a slight proportional shift.

Man it's gonna be confusing for people new to the hobby. "Why are my friend's new Space Marines way different than the Deathwatch guys I got for Christmas?"

Yeah!!! They'll get their own bikes, jump packs, vehicles and terminator armor in time. I hope the bikes look like those HH ones because they are swwweeeeeeettt!

changemod wrote:
To be fair, it has never made sense that veterans, ie Battlesuit pilots, aren't BS4 like veterans from comparable races... But it's been balanced out by the impact of markers. Making most units BS5 when using one light would be absurd.

If lights are toned down, only low ranking guys should have BS3 from a fluff perspective.

Veterans from comparable races aren't touting around two or three weapon systems that are effectively specials in squads though.

BS3 is what, fluffwise from back in the day, Tau are with tech enhancing them.

 Gamgee wrote:
Well the only thing I've seen is Tau nerfs in this update. Even things that didn't need them like the sniper drones. Why? They are already so useless to be never used so they had to make them worse?

I'm so sick of this BS.

Yeap I'm definitely going to AoS for awhile. I think 40k is going to gak. Too much marines focus. I guess Eldar can come too as usual. Everything else will just die off and stay in the background I guess. 30k 2.0 incoming.

Weren't sniper drones already hitting on 5's? What buffed them was the controller nearby. We have no reason not to believe that will be the same. They probably just made him a separate selection so they didn't have mixed units on a single datasheet.