Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My thoughts on the Numarine & Tau articles without having read any other posts:

Numarines: They're regular Marines with an A/W buff, and slightly better guns. Oh, and their pauldrons aren't so wacky looking in terms of scale. Aside from that, they're Space Marines. GW's lack of originality in that model line is honestly painful. For the number of kits they've released, SM must be the least diverse model line I've seen. And that's coming from a Guard player where all non-Russ vehicles have an identical sprue.

Tau: I will safely conclude that if 2/3 units they mention can fall back from combat and still shoot, it will be the case for many other units ($10 says Riptides will have a similar or identical rule). That was one of the only things assault armies had on Tau: stopping them from shooting if you could survive rounds of shooting and overwatch. And with the lack of any mentioned nerfs against a decidedly very strong army, I have grown quite concerned about the game's balance very suddenly; even the Eldar article didn't have me as worried.

Overall, I found today pretty disappointing.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
This was suspected since the rumours started, I kind of like the Emperor finally got his cult marines

I imagine that some chaos cult marines will be specced similar to these numarines while standard csm will retain old marines Stat line.

yeah I mean they get an additional wound and more attacks, they'd be easy to slap onto the death guard marines.

That was exactly my thought, Plague Marines -should- be a lot tougher than normal CSM, and pay points appropriately.

We saw with traitor legions that normal CSM with Mark of Nurgle became stronger than plague marines in the formation, which really rubbed me wrong!

I really like these new marines, they have some really nice dynamics proportions and have stylistic cues that i quite appreciate. Like the gorget and the mk3 style lower leg armor.

I'm a little worried about the fluff gymnastics required for them to make sense though! GW has spent years telling us that the imperium is technologically regressive and highly suspicious of anything new.

Not too sure that the old guys are really going to be left to dry, they represent alot of dollars invested in the molds and most of them should be good for a fair few years. At the very least we have many years to go before they truly disappear.

That being said, the foil hat wearing part of me can't help but think that this all a Machiavellian plot to make all chapters really believe Rob is their spiritual liege ;p

So Primaris Marines are just the profile Normal Marines should be? Still wanna see a true side by side shot though!

Interested to see how they expand the line. Would love to use them as normal marines, but gonna get mighty pricey.

What would we think, Sternguard price for 5? Vanguard if we are lucky? So who wants to split a whole bunch of starter boxes?

I'm deffo fancying them as a normal marine army, maybe Demi company style. But yeah depends on $$$ !

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
IIRC Tau sniper drones used to have a spotter attached to the unit, but the new unit datasheet is just drones. Any idea on what happens to them now?

I believe that GW's planning on using the spotter as an alternate Cadre Fireblade.

Form the article - "Lastly, I want to talk about Sniper Drones. When paired with the T’au HQ’s such as the Cadre Fireblade(...)"

Makes sense, considering the guy was already BS5 and rocking a sidearm and a markerlight.

 O'Whelk wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
IIRC Tau sniper drones used to have a spotter attached to the unit, but the new unit datasheet is just drones. Any idea on what happens to them now?

I believe that GW's planning on using the spotter as an alternate Cadre Fireblade.

Form the article - "Lastly, I want to talk about Sniper Drones. When paired with the T’au HQ’s such as the Cadre Fireblade(...)"

Makes sense, considering the guy was already BS5 and rocking a sidearm and a markerlight.

Or he's a unique cheapo drone controller character.

I still say they are conversions.

changemod wrote:

 O'Whelk wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
IIRC Tau sniper drones used to have a spotter attached to the unit, but the new unit datasheet is just drones. Any idea on what happens to them now?

I believe that GW's planning on using the spotter as an alternate Cadre Fireblade.

Form the article - "Lastly, I want to talk about Sniper Drones. When paired with the T’au HQ’s such as the Cadre Fireblade(...)"

Makes sense, considering the guy was already BS5 and rocking a sidearm and a markerlight.

Or he's a unique cheapo drone controller character.

Im hoping its a cheap maker control character to throw around the army. bonus bubble for drones while also sending out a nice marker light for an effect.

Or folded into pathfinders.

Or just outright thrown away as he arguably made the unit worse by existing.

Plenty of answers there.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5. It would be like seeing normal marines bolter go to str 6 -2 kind of weird.

LMAO so you even acknowledge that the new rules better reflect the fluff, yet your somehow stunned they aren't better...

Reese wrote:
So Primaris Marines are just the profile Normal Marines should be? Still wanna see a true side by side shot though!

Interested to see how they expand the line. Would love to use them as normal marines, but gonna get mighty pricey.

What would we think, Sternguard price for 5? Vanguard if we are lucky? So who wants to split a whole bunch of starter boxes?

Yes, Primaris Marines are the profile that you personally think they should be based on nothing.

Old marines are following the rest of the Old stuff's update, IP AP5 is now AP-- etc.

 O'Whelk wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
IIRC Tau sniper drones used to have a spotter attached to the unit, but the new unit datasheet is just drones. Any idea on what happens to them now?

I believe that GW's planning on using the spotter as an alternate Cadre Fireblade.

Form the article - "Lastly, I want to talk about Sniper Drones. When paired with the T’au HQ’s such as the Cadre Fireblade(...)"

Makes sense, considering the guy was already BS5 and rocking a sidearm and a markerlight.

Ehh.

I don't think the Firesight Marksman is intended to be an alternate Cadre Fireblade.

Again, the author of the article seemingly isn't that great at expressing himself. We got a throwaway comment awhile ago that let us know that Cadre Fireblades grant their abilities in a bubble now, seemingly instead of picking a single unit.

If it's anything like "First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire"(where it doubles the shooting value rather than just adds a single shot)? 4 shots at 24" per Drone is nothing to sneeze at.

Reese wrote:
So Primaris Marines are just the profile Normal Marines should be? Still wanna see a true side by side shot though!

Interested to see how they expand the line. Would love to use them as normal marines, but gonna get mighty pricey.

What would we think, Sternguard price for 5? Vanguard if we are lucky? So who wants to split a whole bunch of starter boxes?

That's a good point. I'd expect GW to price them at sigmarine levels which when I looked 2 years ago were pretty pricey per fig. As for the side by side shot, there is one shot in the youtube video on GW's channel that has the numariens next to old 3rd-7th ed style plastics although it's shot at an angle.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5. It would be like seeing normal marines bolter go to str 6 -2 kind of weird.

LMAO so you even acknowledge that the new rules better reflect the fluff, yet your somehow stunned they aren't better...

I never mentioned the fluff even once. I was offering proof and agreement with why I thought they would not have a -1 to rend is all. Someone kept saying they thought the pulse rifle would be -1 rend. That is all. Context friendo. I never argued that best represents their fluff.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
IIRC Tau sniper drones used to have a spotter attached to the unit, but the new unit datasheet is just drones. Any idea on what happens to them now?

They become a support support unit like engineers to cannons in AoS.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Or folded into pathfinders.

Or just outright thrown away as he arguably made the unit worse by existing.

Plenty of answers there.

Could also be that they're going the route of the Vanguard-Raptors from Stormcast.

It's also struck me as strange that Longshot Pulse Rifles are available on the Fireblade but nowhere else. We could see a "Firesight Marksman" unit; something that is basically a Pathfinder variant boxed with 4 Sniper Drones coming down the pipe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

Reese wrote:
So Primaris Marines are just the profile Normal Marines should be? Still wanna see a true side by side shot though!

Interested to see how they expand the line. Would love to use them as normal marines, but gonna get mighty pricey.

What would we think, Sternguard price for 5? Vanguard if we are lucky? So who wants to split a whole bunch of starter boxes?

That's a good point. I'd expect GW to price them at sigmarine levels which when I looked 2 years ago were pretty pricey per fig. As for the side by side shot, there is one shot in the youtube video on GW's channel that has the numariens next to old 3rd-7th ed style plastics although it's shot at an angle.

They reboxed the Liberators, Judicators, etc for Stormcast because the unit sizes can be larger than the starter set contents.

If the unit size is 5, with no way to expand it, then I would expect 5 for $40 or $50.

All of this PR work and upheaval amongst Space Marine players and it was only to essentially make 8E rules for Space Marines.

Honestly, every bit of info that comes out more and more sounds like somebody on the writing team went crazy pants after being asked to come up with a story reason for the new tactical squad kit and rules in 8E. Worse is that nobody stopped them lol.

Two seconds would have satisfied almost every Astartes fan.

"We have a new tactical squad set for our new edition of Warhammer 40k, look to the future as we update the entire model range."

Done....

Strange to me that the Gullimarines would use the other primarchs geneseed still.

Obviously this was just to appease everyone and allow them to plug into existing forces, but from a fluff point of view in not buying it

 KommissarKiln wrote:
My thoughts on the Numarine & Tau articles without having read any other posts:

Numarines: They're regular Marines with an A/W buff, and slightly better guns. Oh, and their pauldrons aren't so wacky looking in terms of scale. Aside from that, they're Space Marines. GW's lack of originality in that model line is honestly painful. For the number of kits they've released, SM must be the least diverse model line I've seen. And that's coming from a Guard player where all non-Russ vehicles have an identical sprue.

Tau: I will safely conclude that if 2/3 units they mention can fall back from combat and still shoot, it will be the case for many other units ($10 says Riptides will have a similar or identical rule). That was one of the only things assault armies had on Tau: stopping them from shooting if you could survive rounds of shooting and overwatch. And with the lack of any mentioned nerfs against a decidedly very strong army, I have grown quite concerned about the game's balance very suddenly; even the Eldar article didn't have me as worried.

Overall, I found today pretty disappointing.

Keep in mind if the unit can't fly it probably can't fall back if it's surrounded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:


That's a good point. I'd expect GW to price them at sigmarine levels which when I looked 2 years ago were pretty pricey per fig. As for the side by side shot, there is one shot in the youtube video on GW's channel that has the numariens next to old 3rd-7th ed style plastics although it's shot at an angle.

You may be happy to find out they reboxed all the Sigmarines into boxes of 10 and dropped the price by a bit over 10%.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
IIRC Tau sniper drones used to have a spotter attached to the unit, but the new unit datasheet is just drones. Any idea on what happens to them now?

Those I think are the specialist versions. Like how Gun Drones had their own unit these might get their own as well. The spotter could be I status and give drones a buff. If any faction will be I heavy it will be Guard and Tau.

 BrotherGecko wrote:


"We have a new tactical squad set for our new edition of Warhammer 40k, look to the future as we update the entire model range."

Done....

That's boring. This is fun and interesting! (That also kills entirely sales for any other kind of marine at once).

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but have we heard any details on a possible starter set beyond just saying death guard Vs. Ultras?
thanks

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Strange to me that the Gullimarines would use the other primarchs geneseed still.

Obviously this was just to appease everyone and allow them to plug into existing forces, but from a fluff point of view in not buying it

Why wouldn't they be using all the different Geneseed? That makes more sense from a fluff perspective, do you think that certain chapters would accept marines of a different Primarch's stock? They would see themselves as dying out, rather than getting stronger.

 Rippy wrote:

Reese wrote:
So Primaris Marines are just the profile Normal Marines should be? Still wanna see a true side by side shot though!

Interested to see how they expand the line. Would love to use them as normal marines, but gonna get mighty pricey.

What would we think, Sternguard price for 5? Vanguard if we are lucky? So who wants to split a whole bunch of starter boxes?

Yes, Primaris Marines are the profile that you personally think they should be based on nothing.

Old marines are following the rest of the Old stuff's update, IP AP5 is now AP-- etc.

Nice day to meet you too? Did you misunderstand my post? it was more of a tongue and cheek comment, so should I have added a smiley face?

But since you seem so interested in it, yes, that is my opinion. This is a forum to express that right? Since they are super soldiers, always seemed like marines should have two wounds. And since they were rebooting everything, was a chance to do it. (But with the advent of Primaris, I can understand why they did not)

And as someone who has lurked on this forum long enough, that really is not a lone opinion or "based on nothing."

 insaniak wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

They are tougher and slightly deadlier marines, but with a preset equipment and no options.

Which is handy when you have a ruleset that isn't suited to having huge number of options for units...

Don't get this part, these guys are coming out after 8th releases. Not in seventh where it takes half an hour to track down enough of the special rules to figure out what any gun more complex than a bolter does.

Reese wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

Reese wrote:
So Primaris Marines are just the profile Normal Marines should be? Still wanna see a true side by side shot though!

Interested to see how they expand the line. Would love to use them as normal marines, but gonna get mighty pricey.

What would we think, Sternguard price for 5? Vanguard if we are lucky? So who wants to split a whole bunch of starter boxes?

Yes, Primaris Marines are the profile that you personally think they should be based on nothing.

Old marines are following the rest of the Old stuff's update, IP AP5 is now AP-- etc.

Nice day to meet you too? Did you misunderstand my post? it was more of a tongue and cheek comment, so should I have added a smiley face?

But since you seem so interested in it, yes, that is my opinion. This is a forum to express that right? Since they are super soldiers, always seemed like marines should have two wounds. And since they were rebooting everything, was a chance to do it. (But with the advent of Primaris, I can understand why they did not)

And as someone who has lurked on this forum long enough, that really is not a lone opinion or "based on nothing."

My apologies, re-reading my comment it did sound snarky, but I didn't mean for it to be so!

Edit: Need more coffee before I start posting :(

I get that space marines sell and they wanted something flashy for the new edition but they literally went

1. marines (deathwatch)
2. tsons
3. imperium characters (gathering storm)
4. eldar characters (gathering storm)
5. Custodes/SoS
6. More new marines

And then after that MORE chaos. So much goddam power armor. I'm surprised at how blind they are to model ranges being severely lacking. Even when asked about new aspect warrior kits the GW facebook page said "but you just got a new eldar god". ??????? I can't make an army out of a single Avatar. Its like they literally are baffled by the concept of people not wanting a sludge of space marine goo poured down their throats constantly.

Is this what sisters players feel like?

 Lysenis wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
IIRC Tau sniper drones used to have a spotter attached to the unit, but the new unit datasheet is just drones. Any idea on what happens to them now?

Those I think are the specialist versions. Like how Gun Drones had their own unit these might get their own as well. The spotter could be I status and give drones a buff. If any faction will be I heavy it will be Guard and Tau.

Sniper Drones currently have their own unit.

It's in Heavy Support.
It consisted of 3x Sniper Drones and a Firesight Marksman.
You can add 6 additional Drones and 2 additional Marksmen.

I don't expect him to retain the same name if he's split off, as it was the whole reason he was a "Marksman" there. The control bit he's crouched with is explicitly a combination of a Markerlight and the control module for the Sniper Drones.

 Crimson wrote:
I fully expect the old marines to be eventually be phased out.

Why when you can make money on both? Release a new weapon option+rebox every 2-3 years and sell both kits with reasonable frequency. Easy Peezy.