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 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Cameras still need time to refocus, and autofocus doesn't always work right as we can see with modern cameras. Even a smarter AI may not automatically adjust focus on the correct object fast enough to help.

That could be true. Of course, you can always justify fluff with all manner of hand-waving. Personally, I have to assume that most battlefield sensors would have a very broad depth-of-field so constant minute adjustments wouldn't be necessary --unlike most cell cameras for instance. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a flaw like this, but I just still find it a little odd.

You could handwave it, but let's be honest, the shootiest faction (not the most dakka filled though) should not be hitting on 3+ across the board. That would be horrible for balance and only make playing against them even less fun then it currently is in 7th.

Absolutely. I'm not saying I want Tau to be BS4. I just thought the fluff was weird when you actually thought about it.

 Gamgee wrote:
The Tau barring the broken Riptde and Stormsurge were not some terrifying forces of nature in the current edition that were stomping tournaments. Before the RIptide came along the Tau were pretty weak to be honest.

That's because they were using a 4E book, with special wargear and abilities built heavily around 4E specific vehicle and LoS mechanics.

Tau were very strong in 3E and 4E, they just didnt get a 5E book, so felt somewhat awkward through 5E and early 6E, when they got a 6E book they went right back to being very strong.

Things could be a whole lot worse for the Tau, it's not like they've been treated like Sisters or IG or something.

 Brother Xeones wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Cameras still need time to refocus, and autofocus doesn't always work right as we can see with modern cameras. Even a smarter AI may not automatically adjust focus on the correct object fast enough to help.

That could be true. Of course, you can always justify fluff with all manner of hand-waving. Personally, I have to assume that most battlefield sensors would have a very broad depth-of-field so constant minute adjustments wouldn't be necessary --unlike most cell cameras for instance. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a flaw like this, but I just still find it a little odd.

You could handwave it, but let's be honest, the shootiest faction (not the most dakka filled though) should not be hitting on 3+ across the board. That would be horrible for balance and only make playing against them even less fun then it currently is in 7th.

Absolutely. I'm not saying I want Tau to be BS4. I just thought the fluff was weird when you actually thought about it.

I mean if there eyes are really that bad that they need to wear glasses helmet to bring them up to human levels then they are already at human levels considering guardsmen are also probably going to be bs 3 equivalent.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Except it now has the stats of our Pulse Rifle so why not just take more of those? Cheaper and has higher base BS without needing to pay for a marksman upgrade. The sniper is for wounding special characters. With it's poor stat line unless it's shooting at guardsmen equivalent characters it's not going to be wounding anything. No rend means it's useless as a sniper. It would take an entire squad of shooting at things to do minimal damage to heavier characters, and if I want to kill infantry I hope out basic firewarriors are more cost effective. In the current edition it has no use for much the same reason. Looks to be even worse in the next.

Spoiler:

It's Rapid Fire 48".

And we already know that Cadre Fireblades do grant "abilities in a bubble"(we got that early on) rather than single units now.

PS:
You, personally, are not being attacked. Your behavior of doomsaying is however being called out.

We got exceedingly brief snippets of information, like other factions did, for the T'au...and you're acting as though it completely ruins the faction.
Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't.

So far, it seems like it doesn't.

I missed that they were Rapid Fire with a 4' range. Emperor's teeth, that is nasty. Get within 2' of them and get lit up like an Emperor's Ascension Day tree....

Also better than being heavy since no move penalty.

 Gamgee wrote:

Except it now has the stats of our Pulse Rifle so why not just take more of those? Cheaper and has higher base BS without needing to pay for a marksman upgrade. The sniper is for wounding special characters. With it's poor stat line unless it's shooting at guardsmen equivalent characters it's not going to be wounding anything. No rend means it's useless as a sniper. It would take an entire squad of shooting at things to do minimal damage to heavier characters, and if I want to kill infantry I hope out basic firewarriors are more cost effective. In the current edition it has no use for much the same reason. Looks to be even worse in the next.

These can be behind firewarriors (or even interspersed) double tapping before they can. And the controller's rules will probably have a role to play.

The article even says:

When paired with the T’au HQ’s such as the Cadre Fireblade

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5. It would be like seeing normal marines bolter go to str 6 -2 kind of weird.

 Brother Xeones wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Cameras still need time to refocus, and autofocus doesn't always work right as we can see with modern cameras. Even a smarter AI may not automatically adjust focus on the correct object fast enough to help.

That could be true. Of course, you can always justify fluff with all manner of hand-waving. Personally, I have to assume that most battlefield sensors would have a very broad depth-of-field so constant minute adjustments wouldn't be necessary --unlike most cell cameras for instance. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a flaw like this, but I just still find it a little odd.

You could handwave it, but let's be honest, the shootiest faction (not the most dakka filled though) should not be hitting on 3+ across the board. That would be horrible for balance and only make playing against them even less fun then it currently is in 7th.

Absolutely. I'm not saying I want Tau to be BS4. I just thought the fluff was weird when you actually thought about it.

I can't find it, but I recall there was a very detailed post about the biology of Tau, and part of their eyesight limitation tied into their copper based blood. It was quite the read and I'm sad I can't find it now.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5.

No the weapon profile is the weapon profile. Like I mentioned above and what GW said in the article - these get paired with another unit to make them more effective.

Okay I see what your saying.

Edit
You know thinking about it. With Crisis suit saves not being auto-ignored which I'm so used to by now it might actually allow them to survive melee combat. So maybe they are still just as good now that I think about it that way. Not going to convince me on those drones though until I see them in a unit being buffed or something.

All this noise about existing Tau stuff that is not rumor related is making it hard for me to find the rules for Primaris Marines (assuming they're actually in this thread). Can you guys please take the off-topic Tau convo to another thread?
..and.. if anyone knows what page whatever rules we know of for the Primaris Marines are please mention it?

It's not off topic though it's an official GW article, but I'm done anyways. I've said what I had to. Primaris Marines are not "rumor" related either and should equally be taken to another discussion too. We see them now and know they are coming.

Also just go to the community website it's not hard to find.

 MLaw wrote:
All this noise about existing Tau stuff that is not rumor related is making it hard for me to find the rules for Primaris Marines (assuming they're actually in this thread). Can you guys please take the off-topic Tau convo to another thread?
..and.. if anyone knows what page whatever rules we know of for the Primaris Marines are please mention it?

The Tau 8th edition changes were just announced. This isn't off topic. Pertaining to Space Marines in general, I'm from Cyraxus and I say squat them all.

 Gamgee wrote:
Okay I see what your saying.

Edit
You know thinking about it. With Crisis suit saves not being auto-ignored which I'm so used to by now it might actually allow them to survive melee combat. So maybe they are still just as good now that I think about it that way. Not going to convince me on those drones though until I see them in a unit being buffed or something.

I approve this message!

 MLaw wrote:
All this noise about existing Tau stuff that is not rumor related is making it hard for me to find the rules for Primaris Marines (assuming they're actually in this thread). Can you guys please take the off-topic Tau convo to another thread?
..and.. if anyone knows what page whatever rules we know of for the Primaris Marines are please mention it?

Or you could just look on the community page - Comparing the new and old rules is perfectly on topic - not everthing is about Marines.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5. It would be like seeing normal marines bolter go to str 6 -2 kind of weird.

Aren't they S5? So 30", S5, -1AP, Rapid Fire1.

Doesn't seem to be the same as the new Bolter.

 Gamgee wrote:
It's not off topic though it's an official GW article, but I'm done anyways. I've said what I had to. Primaris Marines are not "rumor" related either and should equally be taken to another discussion too. We see them now and know they are coming.

Also just go to the community website it's not hard to find.

THIS IS N&R.. NEWS&RUMOR NEWS... &...RUMOR

I didn't even see that there was new Tau info.. just people complaining about Tau.. but seriously.. if there is new Tau info .. News or Rumor.. the subject should probably include it

We haven't seen the Tau pulse rifle to my knowledge so I have no idea. A lot of people are speculating that basic infantry weapons will not have rend at all, but then again we just seen the new marine bolters. So who knows. If it get's a -1 to saves I'll be surprised.

Time to make up ridiculous names for the primaris squads:

Captain -> Captimus Prime
Tactical Squad -> Intercessor Squad
Assault Squad -> Rapidus Squad
Devestator Squad -> Oblitermondo Squad
Terminator Squad -> Guillimator Squad
Dreadnought -> Archdreadmaximus
Predator -> Roboutepanzer
Land Raider -> Land Raider Indomitus Crusader

 Mr Morden wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
All this noise about existing Tau stuff that is not rumor related is making it hard for me to find the rules for Primaris Marines (assuming they're actually in this thread). Can you guys please take the off-topic Tau convo to another thread?
..and.. if anyone knows what page whatever rules we know of for the Primaris Marines are please mention it?

Or you could just look on the community page - Comparing the new and old rules is perfectly on topic - not everthing is about Marines.

Wow, rule 1 dude..
The SUBJECT LINE is about Primaris Marines.. I didn't even know there was anything new about Tau (which.. appears to be wishlisting from what I can see and not actual news or rumor). Also, pretending that a really significant announcement isn't really significant just because it doesn't align with your interests does not mean it doesn't exist. I asked politely for you guys to respect the nature of the thread and the topic.. but it seems like I'm getting piled on by some Tau fanboys that are upset that they don't have anything new and shiny. If that's not what's happening, by all means, please link to the pertinent Tau info but so far I see people bickering about pulse rifles and some discussion about crisis suits that I don't have time to follow.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Aren't they S5? So 30", S5, -1AP, Rapid Fire1.

Doesn't seem to be the same as the new Bolter.

New bolter is S4

 Brother Xeones wrote:
[spoiler][quote=ClockworkZion 724730 9363880 85f21716889c399cf3cb2fd8181890ae.jpg

...Anyway, I wonder if Stealth Suits or the Ghostkeel will have better stealth saves than the sniper drones or if this will be the "new" stealth. It's one of my favorite part of the Tau's M.O. so I hope it's still a significant thing rather than being a rather low-level modifier.

I mean it ins't that low level of a modifier. -1 to hit (assuming 6s always hit) is typically between a 25-50% increase in survivability (depending on the firing unit). That said the benefit only coming from not being closest hurts things like Stealth suits a lot if it works the same way.

Orthon wrote:
Time to make up ridiculous names for the primaris squads:

Captain -> Captimus Prime
Tactical Squad -> Intercessor Squad
Assault Squad -> Rapidus Squad
Devestator Squad -> Oblitermondo Squad
Terminator Squad -> Guillimator Squad
Dreadnought -> Archdreadmaximus
Predator -> Roboutepanzer
Land Raider -> Land Raider Indomitus Crusader

Don't forget Sicarius' new title - Gluteus Maximus.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5. It would be like seeing normal marines bolter go to str 6 -2 kind of weird.

Aren't they S5? So 30", S5, -1AP, Rapid Fire1.

Doesn't seem to be the same as the new Bolter.

Everything that was AP 5 has no rend so why should the Pulse Rifle have Rend?

 MLaw wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
It's not off topic though it's an official GW article, but I'm done anyways. I've said what I had to. Primaris Marines are not "rumor" related either and should equally be taken to another discussion too. We see them now and know they are coming.

Also just go to the community website it's not hard to find.

THIS IS N&R.. NEWS&RUMOR NEWS... &...RUMOR

I didn't even see that there was new Tau info.. just people complaining about Tau.. but seriously.. if there is new Tau info .. News or Rumor.. the subject should probably include it

Rippy is usually offline right now, so not likely to happen right now.

And just because you didn't check the community site to see the Faction Focus article doesn't make it everyone else's fault.

Really excited for that <sept> and what it might have in store. Kinda meh on the battlesuits, not having seen points yet the ability to fall back and shoot seem a bit op.

Orthon wrote:
Time to make up ridiculous names for the primaris squads:

Captain -> Captimus Prime
Tactical Squad -> Intercessor Squad
Assault Squad -> Rapidus Squad
Devestator Squad -> Oblitermondo Squad
Terminator Squad -> Guillimator Squad
Dreadnought -> Archdreadmaximus
Predator -> Roboutepanzer
Land Raider -> Land Raider Indomitus Crusader

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5. It would be like seeing normal marines bolter go to str 6 -2 kind of weird.

Aren't they S5? So 30", S5, -1AP, Rapid Fire1.

Doesn't seem to be the same as the new Bolter.

Everything that was AP 5 has no rend so why should the Pulse Rifle have Rend?

Exactly I don't think it should. Wouldn't make sense. Also the Tau longshot pulse rifle not having rend is a good indication it wont since the two were basically identical in 7th barring one having the sniper rule and a longer range.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Aren't they S5? So 30", S5, -1AP, Rapid Fire1.

Doesn't seem to be the same as the new Bolter.

New bolter is S4

I was talking about Pulse rifles being S5 currently, which is stronger than the new bolter.

I'm primarily a 30k player these days but my 40k side doesn't really like these. I understand the reasons why GW has probably done this e.g not just another box with Marines that existing marines player won't need to buy, especially if the rules are free. But to me it stinks a bit from a lore perspective

They're a throwback to the legions (i.e no special weapons etc) but this is exactly what Guilliman moved away from. Now he wakes up and decides that's what they're going back to from an org perspective? Also the hints that this was a project 10,000 years in the making. I know they said the Chaos Gods have also been busy, but this type of thing would have been difficult to keep from Horus etc. during the Heresy, especially with the split of Mars, so surely the info about these marines would have been of interest if not a target to either steal the info or destroy it - in fact if memory serves the Fabricator General joined Horus - so I'm pretty sure he would have been privy to this info.

The models look nice - clearly a lot better then the kit bash that some people thought was the real thing a while back. But it just doesn't sit in the setting for me. Albeit I know they're trying to move the story on. They look like a good basis for TS marines, though unfortunately that does make the Land Raiders etc. appear even smaller now when it comes to transporting them.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
YOU don't know the rules of the Pulse rifle. Stop mixing and matching what the current rules are with new information about an entirely new edition.

I guess the Pulse Rifle could be given a -1 rend or maybe Str 6? I doubt it though. In the lore the longshot pulse rifle was the same damage as a pulse rifle but longer range is all. So unless we see regular pulse rifles get a buff over it it's fairly safe to assume the stats are the same at Str 5. It would be like seeing normal marines bolter go to str 6 -2 kind of weird.

Aren't they S5? So 30", S5, -1AP, Rapid Fire1.

Doesn't seem to be the same as the new Bolter.

Everything that was AP 5 has no rend so why should the Pulse Rifle have Rend?

Because it's currently AP4 IIRC.