40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**Frozen Ocean**

I've been a truescale fan for a long time, and plan to do it to all my Marines eventually. I'm very glad for the corrected models, but I just wish the fluff wasn't so stupid.

**Future War Cultist**

The only thing that concerns me about the big marines is how they seem to be operating. Small squads with no specials or heavies...it seems like Girlyman is going back on his own Codex. I know this is a ploy to keep the older tactical marines relevant but I hope they are able to work as a stand alone force.

**ERJAK**

Frozen Ocean wrote:
I've been a truescale fan for a long time, and plan to do it to all my Marines eventually. I'm very glad for the corrected models, but I just wish the fluff wasn't so stupid.

I keep hearing this but I don't really understand the why? I guess I'm not all that familiar with the nitty gritty of the grimdark but to me Cawl and Rowboat making new marines is pretty much the same as like...making a new type of bolter or a new rocket launcher or w/e. I mean, it kind of makes sense to try and improve the process/product over time. Admittedly 'doing things that make sense with technology' is not exactly 40k's calling card but still...

**Neronoxx**

Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm thinking of my own chapter, made entirely of big marines.

Same here, I love my blood angels the way they are, and likely won't be adding any of the numarines to them.
But I do like the models, so I'll start a new chapter based on the idea that Terra would have had Gene-seed for all the chapters/legions ever made. Thinking of using one of the traitor legions.

**Galas**

ERJAK wrote:
Frozen Ocean wrote:
I've been a truescale fan for a long time, and plan to do it to all my Marines eventually. I'm very glad for the corrected models, but I just wish the fluff wasn't so stupid.

I keep hearing this but I don't really understand the why? I guess I'm not all that familiar with the nitty gritty of the grimdark but to me Cawl and Rowboat making new marines is pretty much the same as like...making a new type of bolter or a new rocket launcher or w/e. I mean, it kind of makes sense to try and improve the process/product over time. Admittedly 'doing things that make sense with technology' is not exactly 40k's calling card but still...

Thats exactly why the fluff goes against 40k theme. The regresion of techonolgy was one of the main themes of the Imperium. Nobody knows anything anymore. The Cult Mechanics is just that, a cult, they have more of religion that of science. Thats why all the equipement, marines, technology in general in the 30K era is superior to the one of the 40k era.

But personally, I have just changed my chip. To me, Pre-Roubote 40k and Post-Roubote 40k are just different settings like Fantasy and AoS.

**adamsouza**

I'm looking forward to the new marines if for no other reason than to have some diversity in Space Marine Stat lines.

**Daedalus81**

For some perspective...

**Future War Cultist**

I didn't realise the newer rubric marines were that big.

**Galas**

Future War Cultist wrote:
I didn't realise the newer rubric marines were that big.

What difference can make having your legs in a realistic pose and a little better proportions , eh?

**Median Trace**

Do we know what faction they are going to preview tomorrow?

**Unusual Suspect**

Median Trace wrote:
Do we know what faction they are going to preview tomorrow?

Imperial Knights

**Nevelon**

Scale creep? I don’t think it exists.

Spoiler:

I do look forward to fielding my RTB01s next to those monstrous new guys. Should be good for a laugh.

**KommissarKiln**

Wait wait, so let me get this straight... A good number of Tau units get to retreat from combat and shoot with 0 penalty, but vehicles don't get the option to do so like they do now in 7th? That's a huge nerf to (non-CC) vehicles. They can more easily survive combat, I'd imagine, but they're made completely useless by being unable to shoot for the rest of the game. The ability to fight back does not even come close to making up for that travesty...

**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

One Tau unit specifically, and anything that is a flyer (jump jet, skimmer)

As for vehicles, the special rule for the stormsurge references it's being a giant vehicle. I'd expect similar rules for vehicles.

Also, just don't charge your vehicles forward into melee if they're there to be shooty. Or just use them to soak overwatch for a viable melee option...

**Vashones**

Galas wrote:
Future War Cultist wrote:
I didn't realise the newer rubric marines were that big.

What difference can make having your legs in a realistic pose and a little better proportions , eh?

I have a space marine army that has been a work in progress with the Betrayal at Calth minis. I also started a Thousand Sons force over Christmas and compared the two minis and realized... I don't really like the current squatty pose marines with the huge shoulder pads. The proportions just look cartoony to me now.

So... I'm seriously considering selling off all the marine minis I have built and on sprue (one 80 of them) and just starting over. These Primaris just look too good. I'm hoping FW comes out with torsos to fit them as Alpha Legion would look really really good and I don't want the Aquila on the chest.

**Daedalus81**

KommissarKiln wrote:
Wait wait, so let me get this straight... A good number of Tau units get to retreat from combat and shoot with 0 penalty, but vehicles don't get the option to do so like they do now in 7th? That's a huge nerf to (non-CC) vehicles. They can more easily survive combat, I'd imagine, but they're made completely useless by being unable to shoot for the rest of the game. The ability to fight back does not even come close to making up for that travesty...

You don't have other units in the way? I would assume these shooting units wouldn't be driving towards the cc units.

**No One Important**

KommissarKiln wrote:
Wait wait, so let me get this straight... A good number of Tau units get to retreat from combat and shoot with 0 penalty, but vehicles don't get the option to do so like they do now in 7th? That's a huge nerf to (non-CC) vehicles. They can more easily survive combat, I'd imagine, but they're made completely useless by being unable to shoot for the rest of the game. The ability to fight back does not even come close to making up for that travesty...

I think it does a good job of representing why it's a bad idea to let vehicles get close to enemy infantry without their own infantry support, and nowhere does it say they can't shoot for the rest of the game. Fall back, move your own infantry forward to screen the vehicle, shoot next turn, learn from your mistake and try to protect your shooty vehicle from getting engaged again via whatever clever tactic/dirty trick your opponent used.

**Daedalus81**

Vashones wrote:

I have a space marine army that has been a work in progress with the Betrayal at Calth minis. I also started a Thousand Sons force over Christmas and compared the two minis and realized... I don't really like the current squatty pose marines with the huge shoulder pads. The proportions just look cartoony to me now.

So... I'm seriously considering selling off all the marine minis I have built and on sprue (one 80 of them) and just starting over. These Primaris just look too good. I'm hoping FW comes out with torsos to fit them as Alpha Legion would look really really good and I don't want the Aquila on the chest.

I love my new Thousand Sons and i'm never looking back. I imagine the Primaris won't be much bigger than them.

**H.B.M.C.**

It really comes down to the Chaos Marines. If they never release a Chaos Marine in the current size/scale, and all Chaos Marine releases from hereon in are NuMarine scale, then we'll know that their aim is to replace them all eventually.

Shame. I really wanted a plastic Havoc Squad. And Oblits. And Noise Marines. And Plague Marines. And new 'Zerkers.

**Vashones**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Vashones wrote:

I have a space marine army that has been a work in progress with the Betrayal at Calth minis. I also started a Thousand Sons force over Christmas and compared the two minis and realized... I don't really like the current squatty pose marines with the huge shoulder pads. The proportions just look cartoony to me now.

So... I'm seriously considering selling off all the marine minis I have built and on sprue (one 80 of them) and just starting over. These Primaris just look too good. I'm hoping FW comes out with torsos to fit them as Alpha Legion would look really really good and I don't want the Aquila on the chest.

I love my new Thousand Sons and i'm never looking back. I imagine the Primaris won't be much bigger than them.

Oh me too, they just look so good. Its not the scale really, its the pose and proportions that have me hooked. Even if they are slightly shorter I'm OK with that.

**Daedalus81**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It really comes down to the Chaos Marines. If they never release a Chaos Marine in the current size/scale, and all Chaos Marine releases from hereon in are NuMarine scale, then we'll know that their aim is to replace them all eventually.

Shame. I really wanted a plastic Havoc Squad. And Oblits. And Noise Marines. And Plague Marines. And new 'Zerkers.

Yea, I may find myself poaching Primaris heavy weapons and sticking them on my Thousand Sons for Havocs. Assuming we see them any time soon.

**Vashones**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It really comes down to the Chaos Marines. If they never release a Chaos Marine in the current size/scale, and all Chaos Marine releases from hereon in are NuMarine scale, then we'll know that their aim is to replace them all eventually.

Shame. I really wanted a plastic Havoc Squad. And Oblits. And Noise Marines. And Plague Marines. And new 'Zerkers.

Who's to say you won't have them? I have a feeling that all new "marine" kits will follow this trend. I do hope they update all those kits you mentioned soon. CSM needs better plastic if they are to be the big threat for new 40k.

**Daedalus81**

Vashones wrote:

Who's to say you won't have them? I have a feeling that all new "marine" kits will follow this trend. I do hope they update all those kits you mentioned soon. CSM needs better plastic if they are to be the big threat for new 40k.

My bet is we'll see legion marines. There won't be a "generic" CSM. Instead it will probably be Black Legion's own variant.

**Frozen Ocean**

ERJAK wrote:
Frozen Ocean wrote:
I've been a truescale fan for a long time, and plan to do it to all my Marines eventually. I'm very glad for the corrected models, but I just wish the fluff wasn't so stupid.

I keep hearing this but I don't really understand the why? I guess I'm not all that familiar with the nitty gritty of the grimdark but to me Cawl and Rowboat making new marines is pretty much the same as like...making a new type of bolter or a new rocket launcher or w/e. I mean, it kind of makes sense to try and improve the process/product over time. Admittedly 'doing things that make sense with technology' is not exactly 40k's calling card but still...

That's not the problem. It's the idea that Space Marines just aren't good enough. From those venerable Legionaries who first sailed out on the Great Crusade to the armies and characters we have now, the existence of the Primaris is GW saying "not good enough". It doesn't matter if they're 10,000 year old Chaos Marines, First Company Veterans, Terminators, Chapter Masters, Deathwatch, Grey Knights - they're not good enough. This post says it quite well:

warboss wrote:
If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.

It's obvious that they exist simply to give Marines a more appropriate scale, so why the in-universe changes? The new Rubric Marines are bigger, and they were given no fluff to explain it because it wasn't necessary. Deathwatch, too.

**Zatsuku**

Seeing that scale comparison of the Rubric Marines and how the new ones have proper proportions makes me want to buy a box of them.

**Daedalus81**

Frozen Ocean wrote:

It's obvious that they exist simply to give Marines a more appropriate scale, so why the in-universe changes? The new Rubric Marines are bigger, and they were given no fluff to explain it because it wasn't necessary. Deathwatch, too.

Then perhaps the in universe changes are, because they wanted to tell the story that way? Those examples are really old and small subsets of the bigger ranges of marines out there.

**Frozen Ocean**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Frozen Ocean wrote:

It's obvious that they exist simply to give Marines a more appropriate scale, so why the in-universe changes? The new Rubric Marines are bigger, and they were given no fluff to explain it because it wasn't necessary. Deathwatch, too.

Then perhaps the in universe changes are, because they wanted to tell the story that way? Those examples are really old and small subsets of the bigger ranges of marines out there.

Rubrics and Deathwatch aren't old, but that's not the point. Any story they could get from the introduction of the Primaris is being trampled on by their out-of-universe motives, as in their need to ensure that the Primaris Marines are distributed galaxy-wide and in enormous numbers so that nobody is left out, not even Chaos (judging by the Deathguard model and the Alpha Legion book cover). The concept of Guilliman's secret weapon is a good one, but it seems it won't be used that way.

**Lockark**

Future War Cultist wrote:
The only thing that concerns me about the big marines is how they seem to be operating. Small squads with no specials or heavies...it seems like Girlyman is going back on his own Codex. I know this is a ploy to keep the older tactical marines relevant but I hope they are able to work as a stand alone force.

I assume the core of the army and bolter goons, and then heavy and special weapons will be in dedicated squads. Think 30k marines.

**Daedalus81**

Zatsuku wrote:
Seeing that scale comparison of the Rubric Marines and how the new ones have proper proportions makes me want to buy a box of them.

Obey.

The thing I love most is that they seem to do some really cool effects now. Notice the texture on the staff head.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frozen Ocean wrote:

Rubrics and Deathwatch aren't old, but that's not the point. Any story they could get from the introduction of the Primaris is being trampled on by their out-of-universe motives, as in their need to ensure that the Primaris Marines are distributed galaxy-wide and in enormous numbers so that nobody is left out, not even Chaos (judging by the Deathguard model and the Alpha Legion book cover). The concept of Guilliman's secret weapon is a good one, but it seems it won't be used that way.

Rubrics were still a hybrid plastic/metal until this year...

**Frozen Ocean**

I mean the new Rubrics and Deathwatch! Sorry, should have clarified that.

They had two options with bigger Marines. Either they make them a new unit entirely, invalidating Marines in fluff but not in models*, or they just make them the new standard Marine, invalidating Marine models but not touching the fluff.

* But they're still kind of invalid anyway.

EDIT: Meanwhile Rubric Marines are just big, apparently, because they've chosen the route of "the old plastics were accurate, the new Marines are just literally taller in-universe".