Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Vryce wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Choppas need to be REALLY good. It seems pretty obvious that the extra attack for 2 weapons has been replaced by shooting with a pistol in the shooting phase, which is bad for Orks.

*fingers crossed*

Maybe they'll give Choppa Boyz (or is it Slugga Boyz..? Not much up to date on Ork unit nomenclature), an extra base attack as compensation. I seem to recall that Orks had more base attacks than most other models anyway, right? So maybe they'll keep that going. Otherwise, yeah, they're gonna be in trouble.

Or they can simply give Choppas their own rule...

Or both. It's not like they can't give Orks extra attacks AND give Choppas a special rule.

Balance-wise, making Choppas equivalent to chainswords would work, but it doesn't fit the fluff. they're big, unwieldy weapons. I imagine they figured something out that makes them work. I just wish we could get some Ork previews of some kind!

-1Ap to represent their weight biting through armour?

The Change to chainswords is the one thing I'm kinda miffed about...

For years now (for CSM) our options have been for CCW. Now, our sprues contain chainswords and combat blades. Do we pay more for chainswords than combat blades? Or is it simply those WYSIWYG get a buff and those who have just a rinky dink Combat blade get left out?

That's they type of question people should ask the FB guys not "When is my faction gonna be shown?"

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Change to chainswords is the one thing I'm kinda miffed about...

For years now (for CSM) our options have been for CCW. Now, our sprues contain chainswords and combat blades. Do we pay more for chainswords than combat blades? Or is it simply those WYSIWYG get a buff and those who have just a rinky dink Combat blade get left out?

You'll almost certainly pay for them. They may also grant them to a unit universally so you can just say anyone with a sword is actually a chainsword.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Change to chainswords is the one thing I'm kinda miffed about...

For years now (for CSM) our options have been for CCW. Now, our sprues contain chainswords and combat blades. Do we pay more for chainswords than combat blades? Or is it simply those WYSIWYG get a buff and those who have just a rinky dink Combat blade get left out?

I have never modelled a combat blade onto a CSM. It's been chainswords or weird mutations (tentacles, crab claws, ect) to be the CCW.

Somewhe I have a three armed CSM who has a bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword.

 Latro_ wrote:

Spoiler:

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting about the chainswords but if they have gotten rid of the second weapon CC attack which they look like they have ye average marine with BP and CS is actually worse off on the charge.

Shoot pistols
charge in two attacks

opposed to
Shoot pistols
charge in three attacks

further rounds of combat in the opponents turn they are the same
in you own turn ye better with a pistol shot and the two attacks

But you can shoot the pistols every round on combat right? So some of those lost attacks on the charge get clawed back that way. Also, I suppose we may see the base attacks on some models go up too, but probably not as many as people would like.

In general I like the changes here.

nope:

'You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! '

That's sort of what I was getting at. You get to shoot the pistol more than just the turn of the charge. Better than a kick in the head with a wet boot.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Spoiler:

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting about the chainswords but if they have gotten rid of the second weapon CC attack which they look like they have ye average marine with BP and CS is actually worse off on the charge.

Shoot pistols
charge in two attacks

opposed to
Shoot pistols
charge in three attacks

further rounds of combat in the opponents turn they are the same
in you own turn ye better with a pistol shot and the two attacks

But you can shoot the pistols every round on combat right? So some of those lost attacks on the charge get clawed back that way. Also, I suppose we may see the base attacks on some models go up too, but probably not as many as people would like.

In general I like the changes here.

nope:

'You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! '

That's sort of what I was getting at. You get to shoot the pistol more than just the turn of the charge. Better than a kick in the head with a wet boot.

eh? i read that as you can shoot at the enemy if you are locked in combat in your own shooting phase, not theirs...

I was planning to get Mark IV for Carcharodons and use the waist mounted blades as their extra close combat weapon. If it's now a chainsword that Carcharodons get, I'll need to either rethink my modelling or be prepared to constantly say "Yeah they mechanically have Chainswords represented by those knives."

Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

Scorpions are the new get funny looks for taking them unit apparently. For the ignoring invulnerable saves before standard hits if nothing else.

leopard wrote:
Would be happy with larger vehicles for the larger marines, If we finally get a consistent and fixed scale for models and not the slightly weird almost-sort-of situation we have now.

If they don't do them to actually look right in relation to the models (e.g. have a land raider a Terminator looks like it could get into and out of without a cutting torch) then just leave the models alone

Of course that would mean so big vehicles that board size would need to go up from 6x4...or game size go to 2nd ed style

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

We've yet to see any rules for the Biting Blade, but Scorpion Chainswords are different to Space Marine chainswords. Either way, you're still taking the claw because it's much cooler.

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

Scorpions are the new get funny looks for taking them unit apparently. For the ignoring invulnerable saves before standard hits if nothing else.

The mortal wounds on charge before attacking are going to be a common rule. Expect bloodcrushers and carnifex to have it.

Spoletta wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

Scorpions are the new get funny looks for taking them unit apparently. For the ignoring invulnerable saves before standard hits if nothing else.

The mortal wounds on charge before attacking are going to be a common rule. Expect bloodcrushers and carnifex to have it.

Oh on charge is one thing, the mandiblasters were said to activate every turn.

Also, https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-vulkite-berzerkers-en.pdf expect a bladed slingshield like rule for scorpions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
Also, https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-vulkite-berzerkers-en.pdf expect a bladed slingshield like rule for scorpions.

Every turn? Will have to check again.

The pistol rule will make Grey Knights odd. So, assuming a strike squad member stays at 1 attack.

Since, they don't actually have a pistol. We are going to have to rely on single hits to kill our enemies.

Spoletta wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

Scorpions are the new get funny looks for taking them unit apparently. For the ignoring invulnerable saves before standard hits if nothing else.

The mortal wounds on charge before attacking are going to be a common rule. Expect bloodcrushers and carnifex to have it.

I don't think they will. To me at least Mortal Wounds are those attacks so powerful or exotic that they ignore or overpower or bypass Force Fields. 3rd Ed Wraiths had this power IIRC. They phased through forcefield and ripped their opponent heart out while phased. Stuff like a Daemon Weapon or Xenophase blade sure, but why would a Carnifex ignore forcefield when its just a big hunk of muscle and chitin that doesn't alter the laws of physics in any way

Spoletta wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

Scorpions are the new get funny looks for taking them unit apparently. For the ignoring invulnerable saves before standard hits if nothing else.

The mortal wounds on charge before attacking are going to be a common rule. Expect bloodcrushers and carnifex to have it.

Mortal wounds strikes me as more of a rending replacement. With rending seeming to be an additional -1 to armor saves I am guessing some things will either do additional wounds on a 6 or will be mortal wounds on a 6.

I just realized that with the new system they can make the rules like Tesla just do more damage to a specific target rather than more hits.

Judging from the fact that so many models will have multiple wounds, combined with what we learned about the dark eldar special save being after a wound is multiplied I am guessing that the process will go something like this

Hit
Wound
Allocate Wound
Save
Multiply Wounds
Any Special Save
Allocate Next Wound(wounded models have to take wounds first)
.....

Rinse and repeat. I think it will be slow at the beginning as we get used to the process it is actually quite simple. Also from the defender chooses rules I am guessing that range banding is gone, so no more sniping models by only having it in range. However once again this makes flamers much more dangerous.

One thing I would like to highlight is that we did not see a special rule on flamers like Wall of Death. This leads me to believe that they will now be restricted by the overwatch range requirements. If the average flamer has range 8, an army can make the decision to risk a longer charge to avoid the flamer over watch or go in close and risk taking more casualties. Maybe they can try and charge from a different angle to limit the number of flamers that can hit them. I like that idea and the having to be over 9 away doesnt seem like as much of a penalty if this is the case. It already FEELs so much more tactical than 7th. So much more control over the outcomes and so much of the randomness is something in the hands of the players that can be accounted for and they can perform a risk analysis instead of it being ALL bad.

It will be interesting to see how the weapons like paired falchions and the like will hold up, same with lightning claws.

Youn wrote:
The pistol rule will make Grey Knights odd. So, assuming a strike squad member stays at 1 attack.

Since, they don't actually have a pistol. We are going to have to rely on single hits to kill our enemies.

I imagine Grey Knights will have more attacks to compensate, or if Stormbolters are much improved as suggested in Terminator Squad discussions, it might not be as bad. Plus, Strike Squads will likely get a form of Deep Strike as they have that rule now.

Youn wrote:
The pistol rule will make Grey Knights odd. So, assuming a strike squad member stays at 1 attack.

Since, they don't actually have a pistol. We are going to have to rely on single hits to kill our enemies.

Well, they do have a melee weapon capable of doing D3 wounds on a successful hit. They were also always deficient in that category as they never got the bonus 1 attack anyway. So it's not like they really lost anything.

Hmm, generally good, pretty well thought out. Oddly, you might want a chainsword more than a power sword now. I can live with that.

tneva82 wrote:

leopard wrote:
Would be happy with larger vehicles for the larger marines, If we finally get a consistent and fixed scale for models and not the slightly weird almost-sort-of situation we have now.

If they don't do them to actually look right in relation to the models (e.g. have a land raider a Terminator looks like it could get into and out of without a cutting torch) then just leave the models alone

Of course that would mean so big vehicles that board size would need to go up from 6x4...or game size go to 2nd ed style

Yup, hence the second part of that though, leave the vehicles as they are.

8x4 as a board would work well, or 8x5, won't happen though

When did the 'standard size' drop from 8x4 anyway?

 Latro_ wrote:

Spoiler:

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting about the chainswords but if they have gotten rid of the second weapon CC attack which they look like they have ye average marine with BP and CS is actually worse off on the charge.

Shoot pistols
charge in two attacks

opposed to
Shoot pistols
charge in three attacks

further rounds of combat in the opponents turn they are the same
in you own turn ye better with a pistol shot and the two attacks

But you can shoot the pistols every round on combat right? So some of those lost attacks on the charge get clawed back that way. Also, I suppose we may see the base attacks on some models go up too, but probably not as many as people would like.

In general I like the changes here.

nope:

'You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! '

That's sort of what I was getting at. You get to shoot the pistol more than just the turn of the charge. Better than a kick in the head with a wet boot.

eh? i read that as you can shoot at the enemy if you are locked in combat in your own shooting phase, not theirs...

Yup. My point was that this represents more pistol shots than the current rules allow (just on the charge). I should have been more specific. Granted, this only helps in longer combats, so there will be times where it won't help much. Mostly I can see it being useful for units that were charged on the opponent's turn and manage to survive. In that case the a BP/CS marines would get one more attack than under the current rules. It's something anyway.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I wonder if Chainfist will be same as powerfist, but d6 damage?

wounding with it will probably be rolling an extra die per and dropping the lowest.

Currently chainfists are armor bane just like melta. Going by that I'd say you roll two d3 and drop the lowest for damage. Then again it has a chain blade on it now, so perhaps it adds an attack like the chainsword instead.

 Vryce wrote:

Youn wrote:
The pistol rule will make Grey Knights odd. So, assuming a strike squad member stays at 1 attack.

Since, they don't actually have a pistol. We are going to have to rely on single hits to kill our enemies.

Well, they do have a melee weapon capable of doing D3 wounds on a successful hit. They were also always deficient in that category as they never got the bonus 1 attack anyway. So it's not like they really lost anything.

Don't forget that they might get a special kind of Storm Bolter that is classed as a Pistol instead of Assault, Rapid Fire, or whatever.

Same thing goes for the Sanguinary Guard and their similar wrist-mounted guns.

In AoS mortal wounds are used in 2 occasions:

1) Exotic attacks
2) Damage from non attack sources. i.e. everything that inflicts damage without being part of an attack, will inflict mortal wounds. This means all psy powers, acid blood, hammer of wrath like rules, get's hot and so on.

Youn wrote:
Don't Khorne Bezerkers use Chain Axes? In theory, those should be +1 Str -1 AP 1 Dam + 1 additional attack each.

There needs to be a trade off or why take the sword. My guess is you right except for the +1 attack. If the axe adds to strength and or ap while the sword adds to attacks, you have reason to field either.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Spoiler:

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting about the chainswords but if they have gotten rid of the second weapon CC attack which they look like they have ye average marine with BP and CS is actually worse off on the charge.

Shoot pistols
charge in two attacks

opposed to
Shoot pistols
charge in three attacks

further rounds of combat in the opponents turn they are the same
in you own turn ye better with a pistol shot and the two attacks

But you can shoot the pistols every round on combat right? So some of those lost attacks on the charge get clawed back that way. Also, I suppose we may see the base attacks on some models go up too, but probably not as many as people would like.

In general I like the changes here.

nope:

'You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! '

That's sort of what I was getting at. You get to shoot the pistol more than just the turn of the charge. Better than a kick in the head with a wet boot.

eh? i read that as you can shoot at the enemy if you are locked in combat in your own shooting phase, not theirs...

Yup. My point was that this represents more pistol shots than the current rules allow (just on the charge). I should have been more specific. Granted, this only helps in longer combats, so there will be times where it won't help much. Mostly I can see it being useful for units that were charged on the opponent's turn and manage to survive. In that case the a BP/CS marines would get one more attack than under the current rules. It's something anyway.

Also dont forget the standard marine has a bolt pistol. So consider that in a second round of combat(assuming they were charged) they get to fire a bolt pistol shot. For the standard marine that might as well be an extra attack.

For orks it is slightly worse since their pistols will be hitting on 5s, however with the changes to how combat, morale, vehicles, and wound removal I get the feeling that orks will be alright. UNIT NOBS FRONT AND CENTER leading the charge and crump'in humies

 kestral wrote:
Hmm, generally good, pretty well thought out. Oddly, you might want a chainsword more than a power sword now. I can live with that.

For me, that's a great thing. Previously, a chainsword could never compete with the power weapons. Now it can.

Spoletta wrote:

Spoiler:

 Leth wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

Scorpions are the new get funny looks for taking them unit apparently. For the ignoring invulnerable saves before standard hits if nothing else.

The mortal wounds on charge before attacking are going to be a common rule. Expect bloodcrushers and carnifex to have it.

Mortal wounds strikes me as more of a rending replacement. With rending seeming to be an additional -1 to armor saves I am guessing some things will either do additional wounds on a 6 or will be mortal wounds on a 6.

I just realized that with the new system they can make the rules like Tesla just do more damage to a specific target rather than more hits.

Judging from the fact that so many models will have multiple wounds, combined with what we learned about the dark eldar special save being after a wound is multiplied I am guessing that the process will go something like this

Hit
Wound
Allocate Wound
Save
Multiply Wounds
Any Special Save
Allocate Next Wound(wounded models have to take wounds first)
.....

Rinse and repeat. I think it will be slow at the beginning as we get used to the process it is actually quite simple. Also from the defender chooses rules I am guessing that range banding is gone, so no more sniping models by only having it in range. However once again this makes flamers much more dangerous.

One thing I would like to highlight is that we did not see a special rule on flamers like Wall of Death. This leads me to believe that they will now be restricted by the overwatch range requirements. If the average flamer has range 8, an army can make the decision to risk a longer charge to avoid the flamer over watch or go in close and risk taking more casualties. Maybe they can try and charge from a different angle to limit the number of flamers that can hit them. I like that idea and the having to be over 9 away doesnt seem like as much of a penalty if this is the case. It already FEELs so much more tactical than 7th. So much more control over the outcomes and so much of the randomness is something in the hands of the players that can be accounted for and they can perform a risk analysis instead of it being ALL bad.

It will be interesting to see how the weapons like paired falchions and the like will hold up, same with lightning claws.

In AoS mortal wounds are used in 2 occasions:

1) Exotic attacks
2) Damage from non attack sources. i.e. everything that inflicts damage without being part of an attack, will inflict mortal wounds. This means all psy powers, acid blood, hammer of wrath like rules, get's hot and so on.

Yeah I'm thinking that mortal wounds were a major misstep here: Invulnerable saves represent the same kinds of save that can be taken against mortal wounds in AoS.

If you need to ignore invulnerable saves, for example because you're a Warlord Titan, then you could have had a specific rule for that.

Spoletta wrote:

Spoiler:

 Leth wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Striking Scorpion Exarch finally has a reason to take their two handed chainsword. Wow Scorpions got good.

Scorpions are the new get funny looks for taking them unit apparently. For the ignoring invulnerable saves before standard hits if nothing else.

The mortal wounds on charge before attacking are going to be a common rule. Expect bloodcrushers and carnifex to have it.

Mortal wounds strikes me as more of a rending replacement. With rending seeming to be an additional -1 to armor saves I am guessing some things will either do additional wounds on a 6 or will be mortal wounds on a 6.

I just realized that with the new system they can make the rules like Tesla just do more damage to a specific target rather than more hits.

Judging from the fact that so many models will have multiple wounds, combined with what we learned about the dark eldar special save being after a wound is multiplied I am guessing that the process will go something like this

Hit
Wound
Allocate Wound
Save
Multiply Wounds
Any Special Save
Allocate Next Wound(wounded models have to take wounds first)
.....

Rinse and repeat. I think it will be slow at the beginning as we get used to the process it is actually quite simple. Also from the defender chooses rules I am guessing that range banding is gone, so no more sniping models by only having it in range. However once again this makes flamers much more dangerous.

One thing I would like to highlight is that we did not see a special rule on flamers like Wall of Death. This leads me to believe that they will now be restricted by the overwatch range requirements. If the average flamer has range 8, an army can make the decision to risk a longer charge to avoid the flamer over watch or go in close and risk taking more casualties. Maybe they can try and charge from a different angle to limit the number of flamers that can hit them. I like that idea and the having to be over 9 away doesnt seem like as much of a penalty if this is the case. It already FEELs so much more tactical than 7th. So much more control over the outcomes and so much of the randomness is something in the hands of the players that can be accounted for and they can perform a risk analysis instead of it being ALL bad.

It will be interesting to see how the weapons like paired falchions and the like will hold up, same with lightning claws.

In AoS mortal wounds are used in 2 occasions:

1) Exotic attacks
2) Damage from non attack sources. i.e. everything that inflicts damage without being part of an attack, will inflict mortal wounds. This means all psy powers, acid blood, hammer of wrath like rules, get's hot and so on.

Got ya and that is kinda what I meant. The ROLE rending played before will be replaced by mortal wounds. I get the feeling that outside of Psychic powers it will mostly be limited to Characters or CC attacks.

Anyone want to bet on the Vindicare Assassin FINALLY doing mortal wounds?