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leopard wrote:
Liking the close combat weapons, think the lack of a range stat is a shame as would be a nice way to handle longer polearms and similar.

Maybe that can be addressed through a weapon-specific special rule (e.g., a hypothetical spear has a special rule that lets you attack models up to 3" away or something).

 docdoom77 wrote:
I wonder if Chainfist will be same as powerfist, but d6 damage?

wounding with it will probably be rolling an extra die per and dropping the lowest.

Holy crap, my Death Company are going to be a frickin' meat grinder!

I gotta say I am liking the weapons. There are plenty of reasons to take all of them.

Gah! They mention the GK off-hand, but don't actually show any of the stats for their different weapons! I want to see what the differences between Swords (which admittedly have already been showcased), Halberds, Falchions and Hammers!

Like what I see overall though. Nice to see that there's no longer "One weapon to rule them all", now. Variety! Woohoo!

Brian888 wrote:

leopard wrote:
Liking the close combat weapons, think the lack of a range stat is a shame as would be a nice way to handle longer polearms and similar.

Maybe that can be addressed through a weapon-specific special rule (e.g., a hypothetical spear has a special rule that lets you attack models up to 3" away or something).

This is very true, given in most cases it won't matter probably the best way to do it.

It also represents that people will more skill will have fewer problems hitting. Quite a nice change. I also like how they let us know that the reaper chainsword does a fixed 6 damage with each wound. Very nice segue into the knight article later today. Having D weapons just do 6 fixed wounds instead of all the other crazy stuff they used to do is a welcome change. That also probably means that no single attack will ever do more than 6 damage. Also force is no longer something that needs to be activated but is a native part of the weapon profile. FINALLY

leopard wrote:
Liking the close combat weapons, think the lack of a range stat is a shame as would be a nice way to handle longer polearms and similar.

Otherwise liking how they seem to be trying to avoid 'no brainer' choices on weapons, the chain sword finally getting a bonus is nice finally as well.

Adding a -1 to hit modifier for clumsy weapons is much more useful than the older initiative modifiers as its likely to actually matter, nice trade off for more clumsy but damaging weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also nice you're not punching tanks to death quickly, but a few working together will maul them

Range would cause more problems than it solves: For example range 1 claws on Hormagaunts would ensure significantly less models could actually attack than under the current in range to fight system, bad when they're clearly wanting to make Melee hordes stronger.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Wish they would have shown lightning claws. What do you think they will be? D3 wounds with a -3 rend, str user?

I'm thinking they'll be Strength User, AP -2 or -3 and the extra attack, like chainswords.

Yay, chainswords are better than pointy sticks and "a 2x4 with a nail through it" again!

Choppas need to be REALLY good. It seems pretty obvious that the extra attack for 2 weapons has been replaced by shooting with a pistol in the shooting phase, which is bad for Orks.

*fingers crossed*

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Wish they would have shown lightning claws. What do you think they will be? D3 wounds with a -3 rend, str user?

Personally would guess something like a chainsword but with a decent rend stat, so a very effective infantry shredder, especially as likely that since you have two you may be able to fight with both of them. Don't see the need for multiple wounds, just make them very effective as murdering infantry (and do more damage through the extra attacks)

While I was sort of expecting them to give melee weapons range like in AoS, I think it makes sense that they didn't - there's generally less reason to care about the difference between swords and spears in a sci-fi setting than there is in a Fantasy one.

Overall seems pretty good!

leopard wrote:
Liking the close combat weapons, think the lack of a range stat is a shame as would be a nice way to handle longer polearms and similar.

We know from Facebook that there is a standard 1" range of weapons. They may save mentioning a range for weapons with a range other than 1".

changemod wrote:

leopard wrote:
Liking the close combat weapons, think the lack of a range stat is a shame as would be a nice way to handle longer polearms and similar.

Otherwise liking how they seem to be trying to avoid 'no brainer' choices on weapons, the chain sword finally getting a bonus is nice finally as well.

Adding a -1 to hit modifier for clumsy weapons is much more useful than the older initiative modifiers as its likely to actually matter, nice trade off for more clumsy but damaging weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also nice you're not punching tanks to death quickly, but a few working together will maul them

Range would cause more problems than it solves: For example range 1 claws on Hormagaunts would ensure significantly less models could actually attack than under the current in range to fight system, bad when they're clearly wanting to make Melee hordes stronger.

Depends what range you gave them, see the point though, but if the range was in addition to the current, i.e. range 1 becomes further models attacking.

Don't Khorne Bezerkers use Chain Axes? In theory, those should be +1 Str -1 AP 1 Dam + 1 additional attack each.

Looking forwards to basic troops actually being perhaps useful now, kit with various low bonus close combat stuff they will finally be able to swamp stuff thats not kitted for them as opposed to bouncing off.

Will be nice for an army to not be a few super models "and friends"

Interesting about the chainswords but if they have gotten rid of the second weapon CC attack which they look like they have ye average marine with BP and CS is actually worse off on the charge.

Shoot pistols
charge in two attacks

opposed to
Shoot pistols
charge in three attacks

further rounds of combat in the opponents turn they are the same
in you own turn ye better with a pistol shot and the two attacks

So with the new chainsword, Primaris Marines with a bolt pistol and chainsword will get 3 chainsword attacks in cc plus the chance to shoot their boltpistol at point blank range too? That's pretty much double what an older type assault marine was dishing out yes? If so, they're looking better already!

 docdoom77 wrote:
Choppas need to be REALLY good. It seems pretty obvious that the extra attack for 2 weapons has been replaced by shooting with a pistol in the shooting phase, which is bad for Orks.

*fingers crossed*

Maybe they'll give Choppa Boyz (or is it Slugga Boyz..? Not much up to date on Ork unit nomenclature), an extra base attack as compensation. I seem to recall that Orks had more base attacks than most other models anyway, right? So maybe they'll keep that going. Otherwise, yeah, they're gonna be in trouble.

 Vryce wrote:
Gah! They mention the GK off-hand, but don't actually show any of the stats for their different weapons! I want to see what the differences between Swords (which admittedly have already been showcased), Halberds, Falchions and Hammers!

Like what I see overall though. Nice to see that there's no longer "One weapon to rule them all", now. Variety! Woohoo!

I assume from the mention of "equivilent power weapon" they'll follow the rules for their respective power weapon. Ie

Sword
Str User
AP -3
D D3

Halberd
Str +1 (like Axes which also encompasses halberds in 7th) or +2 (Axe rule plus the +1 it currently gives)
AP -2
D D3

Stave
Str +2
AP -1
D D3




Based on the stave, I'd say Halberds would just be a +1 Str, otherwise its a clear no-brainer. As of that theory, Swords, Halberds and Staves are just straight Force Weapon Ports of the power weapons.

Falchions (7th) are just a pair of (Nemesis) Force Swords. They have all the same rules but also +1 attack. I reckon their option will simply be replaced with a "a pair of Nemesis Force Swords" which is modelled as Falchions. Or else they'll be AP-2 and +1 attack.



Now, Daemonhammers.

Presuming Thunder Hammers are still the same as Powerfists, but with Concussive, we can expect that the Daemonhammer will look pretty similar to the power fist, but with a stun rule that forces a hit model to go last or something. Now, as for damage, I could see 2D3 or 2D3 pick the highest, or D6 as an option. I could even see a flat 3 similar to the flat 6 Reaper Chainswords get.

Pretty dull update to be honest. There were only really 3 things we didn't know: powerfists do D3 damage, chainswords give +1 attack (but only with the chainsword profile) and Reaper chainsword does 6 flat damage. Meh. It would have been nice to see something else we currently can't guess easily, such as lightning claws, scything talons, genestealer claws, the Callidus phase sword, etc. At least the article on knights is coming out later - it'll be interesting to see how the "super heavy" (or rather, no longer super heavy) rules have changed with regards to stomping, as well as ion shields for the knight.

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting about the chainswords but if they have gotten rid of the second weapon CC attack which they look like they have ye average marine with BP and CS is actually worse off on the charge.

Shoot pistols
charge in two attacks

opposed to
Shoot pistols
charge in three attacks

further rounds of combat in the opponents turn they are the same
in you own turn ye better with a pistol shot and the two attacks

But you can shoot the pistols every round on combat right? So some of those lost attacks on the charge get clawed back that way. Also, I suppose we may see the base attacks on some models go up too, but probably not as many as people would like.

In general I like the changes here.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting about the chainswords but if they have gotten rid of the second weapon CC attack which they look like they have ye average marine with BP and CS is actually worse off on the charge.

Shoot pistols
charge in two attacks

opposed to
Shoot pistols
charge in three attacks

further rounds of combat in the opponents turn they are the same
in you own turn ye better with a pistol shot and the two attacks

But you can shoot the pistols every round on combat right? So some of those lost attacks on the charge get clawed back that way. Also, I suppose we may see the base attacks on some models go up too, but probably not as many as people would like.

In general I like the changes here.

nope:

'You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! '

Eyjio wrote:
Pretty dull update to be honest. There were only really 3 things we didn't know: powerfists do D3 damage, chainswords give +1 attack (but only with the chainsword profile) and Reaper chainsword does 6 flat damage. Meh. It would have been nice to see something else we currently can't guess easily, such as lightning claws, scything talons, genestealer claws, the Callidus phase sword, etc. At least the article on knights is coming out later - it'll be interesting to see how the "super heavy" (or rather, no longer super heavy) rules have changed with regards to stomping, as well as ion shields for the knight.

3 new things is about average for these articles and they tend topick from the most commonly seen things in the game for easy recognition/understanding.

 Vryce wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Choppas need to be REALLY good. It seems pretty obvious that the extra attack for 2 weapons has been replaced by shooting with a pistol in the shooting phase, which is bad for Orks.

*fingers crossed*

Maybe they'll give Choppa Boyz (or is it Slugga Boyz..? Not much up to date on Ork unit nomenclature), an extra base attack as compensation. I seem to recall that Orks had more base attacks than most other models anyway, right? So maybe they'll keep that going. Otherwise, yeah, they're gonna be in trouble.

Or they can simply give Choppas their own rule...

 Deadshot wrote:

 Vryce wrote:
Gah! They mention the GK off-hand, but don't actually show any of the stats for their different weapons! I want to see what the differences between Swords (which admittedly have already been showcased), Halberds, Falchions and Hammers!

Like what I see overall though. Nice to see that there's no longer "One weapon to rule them all", now. Variety! Woohoo!

I assume from the mention of "equivilent power weapon" they'll follow the rules for their respective power weapon. Ie

Sword
Str User
AP -3
D D3

Halberd
Str +1 (like Axes which also encompasses halberds in 7th) or +2 (Axe rule plus the +1 it currently gives)
AP -2
D D3

Stave
Str +2
AP -1
D D3




Based on the stave, I'd say Halberds would just be a +1 Str, otherwise its a clear no-brainer. As of that theory, Swords, Halberds and Staves are just straight Force Weapon Ports of the power weapons.

Falchions (7th) are just a pair of (Nemesis) Force Swords. They have all the same rules but also +1 attack. I reckon their option will simply be replaced with a "a pair of Nemesis Force Swords" which is modelled as Falchions. Or else they'll be AP-2 and +1 attack.



Now, Daemonhammers.

Presuming Thunder Hammers are still the same as Powerfists, but with Concussive, we can expect that the Daemonhammer will look pretty similar to the power fist, but with a stun rule that forces a hit model to go last or something. Now, as for damage, I could see 2D3 or 2D3 pick the highest, or D6 as an option. I could even see a flat 3 similar to the flat 6 Reaper Chainswords get.

That's probably pretty accurate. I was thinking to myself that Falchions likely were going to be treated as dual swords, but sometimes GW likes to throw curve balls. I think it's safe to say that my plan of using a 10 man squad of Interceptors w/ two Incinerators and Falchions is still alive and well!

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Vryce wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Choppas need to be REALLY good. It seems pretty obvious that the extra attack for 2 weapons has been replaced by shooting with a pistol in the shooting phase, which is bad for Orks.

*fingers crossed*

Maybe they'll give Choppa Boyz (or is it Slugga Boyz..? Not much up to date on Ork unit nomenclature), an extra base attack as compensation. I seem to recall that Orks had more base attacks than most other models anyway, right? So maybe they'll keep that going. Otherwise, yeah, they're gonna be in trouble.

Or they can simply give Choppas their own rule...

Or both. It's not like they can't give Orks extra attacks AND give Choppas a special rule.

About force weapons;

I wonder if they'll maintain a way to make them dangerous to their users as well as the enemy. If they do D3 damage, then they could import this mechanic from AoS. Roll a D6 for each force weapon before attacking. Roll a 1, you suffer a mortal wound (perils of the warp!). Roll a 4+, the force weapon does a full 3 damage rather than D3.

About Ork Choppas:

They could be chainswords with +1 strength and/or -1 AP.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Vryce wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Choppas need to be REALLY good. It seems pretty obvious that the extra attack for 2 weapons has been replaced by shooting with a pistol in the shooting phase, which is bad for Orks.

*fingers crossed*

Maybe they'll give Choppa Boyz (or is it Slugga Boyz..? Not much up to date on Ork unit nomenclature), an extra base attack as compensation. I seem to recall that Orks had more base attacks than most other models anyway, right? So maybe they'll keep that going. Otherwise, yeah, they're gonna be in trouble.

Or they can simply give Choppas their own rule...

Or both. It's not like they can't give Orks extra attacks AND give Choppas a special rule.

Balance-wise, making Choppas equivalent to chainswords would work, but it doesn't fit the fluff. they're big, unwieldy weapons. I imagine they figured something out that makes them work. I just wish we could get some Ork previews of some kind!

 docdoom77 wrote:


Balance-wise, making Choppas equivalent to chainswords would work

And they don't have to, either.

I'm wondering if the article was trying to tell us that a Chaos Lord now has 6 wounds...