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 xttz wrote:
Guaranteed first strike with powerfists will be pretty interesting, especially alongside owner allocating wounds within a unit.

Has that wound allocation been confirmed, pretty stupid if it's not remove wounded models first.

 Mantle wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Guaranteed first strike with powerfists will be pretty interesting, especially alongside owner allocating wounds within a unit.

Has that wound allocation been confirmed, pretty stupid if it's not remove wounded models first.

Yes. They can allocate wounds within the unit.
However wounded models have to be removed first.

These things are not mutually exclusive.

don't like the new wound allocations mechanic. Means that models with good weapons will always be removed last

Pretty much. But 7th's Wound Pools and take from the front mechanics are a sledgehammer to crack a nut. That didn't really need cracking. The older "we assume soldiers move forward to fill gaps in firing line, take up dropped heavy weapons, etc" rationale that's essentially coming back is fine by me. I can get behind that.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Pretty much. But 7th's Wound Pools and take from the front mechanics are a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The older "we assume soldiers move forward to fill gaps in firing line, take up dropped heavy weapons, etc" rationale that's essentially coming back is fine by me. I can get behind that.

yeah, that make some sense

Exactly. somebody manning the heavy weapon if the gunner took a bullet is the go-to response of your average military unit.


I also know that if the guy next to my drops dead, and he has a far superior gun. I'm taking the damn thing.

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Kharadron Overlords: THE SQUATS RETURN!!

Lol, it's the day we've all been secretly waiting for.

Seriously. They look more like Squats than fantasy dwarfs.

I'd also be perfectly okay with that. Just do like Chaos Daemons and give us rules for both games.

 adamsouza wrote:


Seriously. They look more like Squats than fantasy dwarfs.

I'd also be perfectly okay with that. Just do like Chaos Daemons and give us rules for both games.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Demiurg Wasn't there talk of more Tau Auxiliary races? Kharadron Overlords as a Tau ally?!

 adamsouza wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Kharadron Overlords: THE SQUATS RETURN!!

Lol, it's the day we've all been secretly waiting for.

Seriously. They look more like Squats than fantasy dwarfs.

I'd also be perfectly okay with that. Just do like Chaos Daemons and give us rules for both games.

Please don't give me a reason to buy them. I am having a hard enough time as is.

Having a Knight play as roughly two Leman Russes seems decent enough. Also worth noting that it takes 18 wounds to produce what almost amounts to a mission kill - A Knight hitting on 5s and moving 6" isn't very scary. That is... ...hmm... about 200 heavy bolter shots at BS 3, or about 24 Lascannon shots.

Knights will also murderate any characters they run into.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Kharadron Overlords: THE SQUATS RETURN!!

Lol, it's the day we've all been secretly waiting for.

Seriously. They look more like Squats than fantasy dwarfs.

I'd also be perfectly okay with that. Just do like Chaos Daemons and give us rules for both games.

Please don't give me a reason to buy them. I am having a hard enough time as is.

They have the most dapper model in both games. That alone is a reason to buy them.

I see them as what happens when Dwarves are forced to stop mining mountians and start mining clouds. On a gas giant. In spaaaaaaaaaace.

Basically if Squats escaped Nids by changing what dimension they hid in I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kestral wrote:
Having a Knight play as roughly two Leman Russes seems decent enough. Also worth noting that it takes 18 wounds to produce what almost amounts to a mission kill - A Knight hitting on 5s and moving 6" isn't very scary. That is... ...hmm... about 200 heavy bolter shots at BS 3, or about 24 Lascannon shots.

Knights will also murderate any characters they run into.

Unless Trygon Primes are characters, then some characters will murderlate them...

 mrhappyface wrote:
Warhammer TV just leaked something:
Next week we will get a model which we have not been able to play in 40k before but it isn't a new model.

AoS models in 40k?

Rapier Laser Destroyer?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, marines are failing. They can't hold the line, and many switch sides.

The numarines are not going to turn the tide even, just help hold on.
Cawl made 12k of them. 12k.

Not sure where this (absurdly low) 12K number is coming from. Here is the quote from "New Warhammer 40,000: The Indomitus Crusade & the Dark Imperium": https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/16/new-warhammer-40000-the-dark-imperium-may16gw-homepage-post-4/

“Roboute Guilliman gathered his new armada. Along with elements of the Adeptus Custodes, a small contingent of the Silent Sisterhood, and a vast war host of Primaris Space Marines from many newly founded Chapters, the Primarch set a winding course. Strike forces from over a dozen pre-existing Chapters of Space Marines, led by the Imperial Fists, joined the fleet."

So, contingents (strike forces) from 12 existing chapters and a "vast war host of Primaris Space Marines from many newly founded Chapters," 12K is not a "vast host", nor is it "many newly founded Chapters".

I hesitate to even guess what "vast host" would be in the current 40K universe; 20,000, 50,000, 100,000, a million? We are talking a second Great Crusade here. Some numbers from the first Great Crusade from the Warhammer 40k wiki: "At its peak in the early 31st Millennium, some 203 standard years after it began, there were 4,287 primary Expedition Fleets engaged upon the business of enforcing Imperial Compliance and extending the Imperial aegis across the galaxy as well as 60,000+ secondary deployment groups involved in regulating Compliance or Imperial occupations. A further 372 Expedition Fleets were regrouping or refitting in the Sol System or other Imperial hub star systems or resupplying as they awaited new orders."

T

The nurgle creatures from end times are the most likely.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Pretty much. But 7th's Wound Pools and take from the front mechanics are a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The older "we assume soldiers move forward to fill gaps in firing line, take up dropped heavy weapons, etc" rationale that's essentially coming back is fine by me. I can get behind that.

yeah, that make some sense

I see benefits to both systems. We can assume in fluff people will take up fallen weapons and necessary leader roles, but at the same time you can place your good weapons closer if you wanted them that way and therefore placement is not key anymore. It makes Meat Shields feel even more like Meat Shields.

That said I haven't played like that in awhile and will embrace the change with open arms.

Agreed, Kharadrons could have been squats. They'd have to come up with a better excuse for flight than aether-gold though. I wouldn't even accept that in Old World. Only the high fantasy of the broken realms (whatever they're called) makes that palatable.

I was thinking some more about assault weapons. I can't see anything in the AOS rules about getting extra attacks for two weapons, and what we've been told so far seems to confirm that for 40k. So the inherent penalty of two-handed weapons is removed - you'll be able to fire your pistol and strike with a two handed weapon. So what penalty are they going to institute on those? Another -1 to hit?

Regarding the super-heavies and their ilk, I'm not panicking, but I'm certainly not getting the feeling that they'll be enjoyable to play against. Only time will tell on that one.

To put that another way, I still don't feel like their presence on the table is justified in this scale, and now we have odd-looking rule changes (SvT) specifically to accommodate them. I've been doing some math-hammer, and it seems to me that the power maul is never the best option. If I got the math right, then hopefully GW spotted the same thing and made it cheaper than the other options.

And on the topic of casualty removal. I think every system I've seen has flaws. We're just returning to the hidden-powerfist flaw.

Zustiur wrote:
I was thinking some more about assault weapons. I can't see anything in the AOS rules about getting extra attacks for two weapons....

In Age of Sigmar, you attack with all of your weapons. The only time that's not the case is if you have two identical weapons per the Age of Sigmar FAQ

Q: What happens if I have two of the same weapon? Do I double the number of attacks made by the weapon?

A: If models are armed with identical weapons they do not double the number of attacks, but will usually gain an extra ability instead.

People are just pulling numbers out of the air. Going off old fluff of 1,000 (aka "Legion") a chapter most likely. Now we know RG is rewriting the codex. Maybe RG is going off old chapter numbers? Maybe he is doubling the old 30k chapter numbers? In FW fluff it says (for 30k) "there was no fixed number of how many Chapters, Battalions, Companies, and Squads a Legion would contain." & "The Legions were massive armies, and the size of each could vary tremendously. A precise number was never truly achieved " Raven Guard had 80,000 and Ultra 250,000 and all the other chapters were some place in between....Millions, or billions.....Who's to say.

Zustiur wrote:
Agreed, Kharadrons could have been squats. They'd have to come up with a better excuse for flight than aether-gold though. I wouldn't even accept that in Old World. Only the high fantasy of the broken realms (whatever they're called) makes that palatable.

I was thinking some more about assault weapons. I can't see anything in the AOS rules about getting extra attacks for two weapons, and what we've been told so far seems to confirm that for 40k. So the inherent penalty of two-handed weapons is removed - you'll be able to fire your pistol and strike with a two handed weapon. So what penalty are they going to institute on those? Another -1 to hit?

Regarding the super-heavies and their ilk, I'm not panicking, but I'm certainly not getting the feeling that they'll be enjoyable to play against. Only time will tell on that one.

To put that another way, I still don't feel like their presence on the table is justified in this scale, and now we have odd-looking rule changes (SvT) specifically to accommodate them. I've been doing some math-hammer, and it seems to me that the power maul is never the best option. If I got the math right, then hopefully GW spotted the same thing and made it cheaper than the other options.

And on the topic of casualty removal. I think every system I've seen has flaws. We're just returning to the hidden-powerfist flaw.

It's not a flaw IMO. Powerfists were a joke with Challenges since there were plenty of AP2 melee weapons that could swing at initiative. Now they are able to help armies bring down these 20+ wound units. It's good game design when everything has a useful purpose.

 krazynadechukr wrote:

Spoiler:

timd wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, marines are failing. They can't hold the line, and many switch sides.

The numarines are not going to turn the tide even, just help hold on.
Cawl made 12k of them. 12k.

Not sure where this (absurdly low) 12K number is coming from. Here is the quote from "New Warhammer 40,000: The Indomitus Crusade & the Dark Imperium": https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/16/new-warhammer-40000-the-dark-imperium-may16gw-homepage-post-4/

“Roboute Guilliman gathered his new armada. Along with elements of the Adeptus Custodes, a small contingent of the Silent Sisterhood, and a vast war host of Primaris Space Marines from many newly founded Chapters, the Primarch set a winding course. Strike forces from over a dozen pre-existing Chapters of Space Marines, led by the Imperial Fists, joined the fleet."

So, contingents (strike forces) from 12 existing chapters and a "vast war host of Primaris Space Marines from many newly founded Chapters," 12K is not a "vast host", nor is it "many newly founded Chapters".

I hesitate to even guess what "vast host" would be in the current 40K universe; 20,000, 50,000, 100,000, a million? We are talking a second Great Crusade here. Some numbers from the first Great Crusade from the Warhammer 40k wiki: "At its peak in the early 31st Millennium, some 203 standard years after it began, there were 4,287 primary Expedition Fleets engaged upon the business of enforcing Imperial Compliance and extending the Imperial aegis across the galaxy as well as 60,000+ secondary deployment groups involved in regulating Compliance or Imperial occupations. A further 372 Expedition Fleets were regrouping or refitting in the Sol System or other Imperial hub star systems or resupplying as they awaited new orders."

T

People are just pulling numbers out of the air. Going off old fluff of 1,000 (aka "Legion") a chapter most likely. Now we know RG is rewriting the codex. Maybe RG is going off old chapter numbers? Maybe he is doubling the old 30k chapter numbers? In FW fluff it says (for 30k) "there was no fixed number of how many Chapters, Battalions, Companies, and Squads a Legion would contain." & "The Legions were massive armies, and the size of each could vary tremendously. A precise number was never truly achieved " Raven Guard had 80,000 and Ultra 250,000 and all the other chapters were some place in between....Millions, or billions.....Who's to say.

Let's hope not, a part of the reason for making the chapters was never letting someone get the powers that Horus had again.
1000 marines going AWOL is better than 10,000

Tygre wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Warhammer TV just leaked something:
Next week we will get a model which we have not been able to play in 40k before but it isn't a new model.

AoS models in 40k?

Rapier Laser Destroyer?

Chaos could use them. Probably chaos' best unit.

Unless Trygon Primes are characters, then some characters will murderlate them...

Given that Knights have 4 attacks that hit on 3+ and do a flat 6 wounds. I think its a safe bet that the one that charged has a much better chance of walking away.

Charax wrote:

From the sound of the Q&A, that seems like more of a background thing - Primaris marines can either be vat-grown, or recruited as normal, or converted from normal Marines
So you could, conceivably, have Marneus Calgar undergo the Primaris process

That's some serious fething HGH!
But it then creates the "why not do all of them?" problem, along with non-codex-compliant chapters like Space Wolves "We gave Ragnarok Squad a shot of the new tonic, but then we had to agree to follow the new rules and take their missile launcher and meltagun away from them."

I mean, I'm absolutely on board with the new models, and willing to accept or sort-of accept various parts of the new fluff in my headcanon, but this really does throw up some more ...odd choices to try and accept.

 Azazelx wrote:


But it then creates the "why not do all of them?"

Logistics?

 Deadshot wrote:

Azazelx wrote:He's also on a 40mm base rather than a 32mm, and he has a CCW/Power Sword, so he's a fancy-something.

Red helmets in the Ultramarines denote Sergeants, White denotes Veteran status. Red and White is typically a Veteran Sergeant, unless Guilliman changed that portion of the Codex heraldry guide when he woke up. His armour also is no where near bling enough to be a captain of GW's new lovechild. He's at best a Veteran Sergeant with a wider base to accomodate his wide pose.

I'm aware of all of that. However, Vet Sergeants in the UM don't have blue helms with multiple stripes. They have red with a white stripe. We've also been told that these new-tac squads only have bolters and even seen the dataslate for them - so no power swords - so he's clearly not a Vet Sergeant. I will agree that he's not blinged enough for a Captain. Perhaps they're bringing back Marine Lieutenants from RT/30k Legion Delegatus in 40k Primaris form? I mean, pretty much always needing the company Captain to lead 20 or 30 guys since they did away with the lower-ranking officers always seems a bit stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:


But it then creates the "why not do all of them?"

Logistics?

Fair enough. And I'll go with that even if they had enough HGH to embigggen all of the marines that having enough armour ready to go puts a reasonable logistical buffer on it. Leaving the squad weapon loadout issue the main one there for me. Of course, you have to agree to the new rules and sign the EULA to get some Primaris marines, but I can't see that stopping individualistic chapters like the Wolves from handing marines who were already loyal-to-the-chapter Space Wolves back their Missile Launchers and Plasma Guns the moment they leave the meeting with Cawl or Guilliman to go battle some Thousand Sons or Orks...

Or a Chainsword. How can they possibly be a Space Wolf and not have at least a Chainsword for Melee. Might as well leave them painted blue when you field them next to Space Wolves if you can't give them melee weapons. Next thing you will tell me is that they don't drink either...

ALL of the AOS rules are online for us to look at, and gain insights from. While something will clearly be different - there are a lot of ...clues...in there.

For example, from the Orruk rules...

Choppas: Wielding two weapons gives an Orruk a better chance of landing a blow.
You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for a model attacking with two Choppas.

Are 40k orks going to get this? Don't know, but it is a possibility.

While I think we might get the two choppa thing, here is their mob rule - I doubt this will come over, but you never know.

Mob Rule: Orruks make 1 extra attack with their melee weapons if their unit has 20 or more models.

Again, the AOS rules have been very close on a lot of things so far...check them out.

I figure the Vet Sergeant fancy pants is a (cheap, basic entry level kina guy) "HQ" character to allow players who want the All Primaris army that they say is possible with the new edition. Most likely the Hero for the whole VS Death Guard back story with the starter set.

I rebember in one of the Q&A, the developpers said that the days of a hail of bullets magically hitting only the guy with a stormshield were over. It doesn't seems like it is the case, since i see nothing in the current rules that prevent that from happening

All my Grey Knights being armed with Swords suddenly seems less silly...

D3 wounds at -3 ap? Niiice.