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Well at least Kan can now stop trying to argue that Fly isn't what allows Crisis Suits to Fall Back and Shoot.

RoninXiC wrote:
What? I actually Like them alot. [...]

Me too, especially after seeing how they look from the other side. They seem to be more like a SM jetpack unit even (technical concept, not neccessarily how they will work in the game)

Looks like I'm wrong.

Thanks, Xttz. At least I have an answer...

Even if it is dumb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Well at least Kan can now stop trying to argue that Fly isn't what allows Crisis Suits to Fall Back and Shoot.

Yup. I was wrong.

I was really hoping it would be a bespoke rule, as that would make Crisis Suits unique and interesting and open up the door for something like the Seraphim to get a similar rule without just making it so that units with "Fly" ignore the penalty for Falling Back.

Ah well...

The minimum move rules interest me greatly, particularly in terms of Flyers being the archtypical minimum move. Does this mean that Flyers will be able to turn as they please? Most GW stores in the UK operate on 4x4 tables to save space, 12" minimum move will have Flyers crashing off the table in a few turns at most.

So that settles the Fly debate then? It's a common keyword. So Ongoing reserves seems to be out. Fly off the table with that Flyer? It's gone. Damn, i gotta get better at moving flyers now

Soo... This launch won't be like the AOS one, and you need to buy army lists like normal in "index" books rather than having free PDFs, and then somewhere along the way these are getting updated with codex books? Is that accurate? Sorry if I missed the discussion...

Seeing that new chaos book, no KDK...

I guess I could play my army as a khorne chaos army with the Khorne keyword... but that is not really the same... Well new rules, new game new army I guess...

Well, there it is: Fly keyword let's you shoot after falling back. pretty cool, not just Crisis Suits then.

FunJohn wrote:
So that settles the Fly debate then? It's a common keyword. So Ongoing reserves seems to be out. Fly off the table with that Flyer? It's gone. Damn, i gotta get better at moving flyers now

Hence my post. Assuming they can only turn 90 as per 7th ed, there's only so much they can possibly do, and it gets more difficult if playing on smaller tables (like several/most GW stores).

 Frozocrone wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
So will the Imperium Index 1 factions all be allies and so on?

I hope they remove ally shenanigans in general to be honest.

If you share factions you share an FOC but you can lose out on specific faction bonuses.

Hmm this makes sense...kind of.

I think I will get to basics with the rules before recommitting - and if I recommit, only use one army for the time being.

It lets stuff like Khorne Daemonkin work without needing a seperate codex just for that army instead of a combined Chaos book. It also lets the other gods get in on the Daemonkin fun.

From what GW has said in the Facebook Q&As the Daemonkin army would share anything from the Chaos and Khorne keywords (which are also the keywords that let them ally as they are shared) but they can't rules for keywords they don't share (like anything that targets Traitor Astartes).

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Soo... This launch won't be like the AOS one, and you need to buy army lists like normal in "index" books rather than having free PDFs, and then somewhere along the way these are getting updated with codex books? Is that accurate? Sorry if I missed the discussion...

From what has been said, yes

So,
index Imperium I: Space Marines, Blood angels, Dark angels, Space Wolves, Grey knights, Deadwatch, Legion of the damned.
Index Imperium II: Astra militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Knights, Imperial Agents, Talons of the emperor.
Index Chaos: Heretic astartes, Chaos daemons, Questor traitoris
Index xenos I: Craftworld, Drukhari, Harlequin, Ynnari, Necrons.
Index Xenos II: Orks, Tau empire, Tyranids, genestealer cult.

As an Eldar/Orc player I have to get Main book and Xenos 1+2 to get the stuff I need to play! hmmm.

Also where Sisters of Battle,{dont like new name}.
Have they been finally dropped?
Was the only Imperial Army I was interested in doing.
:(

 Kanluwen wrote:


I was really hoping it would be a bespoke rule, as that would make Crisis Suits unique and interesting and open up the door for something like the Seraphim to get a similar rule without just making it so that units with "Fly" ignore the penalty for Falling Back.

Ah well...

To be fair, a Crisis Suit falling back is very different from a Jetbike falling back. Their movement speed will be far more limited; if the whole unit can't get more than 1" from an enemy unit they're stuck. Some clever positioning of transports nearby can do a lot to help there. Plus we've already seen special unit rules that let you prevent enemies from falling back at all, I have no doubt there will be more of those.

Sisters of Battle are still in. So are Khorne Daemonkin, Assassins and Inquisitors (according to GW on fb and twitter)

Sisters of Battle have been part of the "Imperial Agents" "faction" since their latest codex.

 Deadshot wrote:

FunJohn wrote:
So that settles the Fly debate then? It's a common keyword. So Ongoing reserves seems to be out. Fly off the table with that Flyer? It's gone. Damn, i gotta get better at moving flyers now

Hence my post. Assuming they can only turn 90 as per 7th ed, there's only so much they can possibly do, and it gets more difficult if playing on smaller tables (like several/most GW stores).

Well, we already know there's no concept of facing, so it's not so much freely turn as just moving somewhere. One of those odd rules interactions which sorts itself out I guess.

 Weazel wrote:
I get that people link jump packs with assault, but to me this Inceptor squad doesn't seem to have anything to do with assault. I mean they seem to have two regular boltguns. I'm thinking flying dakka marines, Crysis Suit style.

My thoughts as well. I really dislike the models but maybe they are so different they will grow on me everything else in the box is awesome I love the nurgle capt!

 tirnaog wrote:

Also where Sisters of Battle,{dont like new name}.
Have they been finally dropped?
Was the only Imperial Army I was interested in doing.
:(

They're under 'Imperial Agents' in the 2nd Imperial book

 tirnaog wrote:

Also where Sisters of Battle,{dont like new name}.
Have they been finally dropped?
Was the only Imperial Army I was interested in doing.
:(

Sisters are probably in Imperial Agents list.

Loving all the changes (ravening hordes reboot). Not loving all the things staying the same (having to buy multiple books).

I suppose getting the free voucher makes this sort of free.

The endless posts from people who simply haven't read the info are tedious. Use your eyes and stop asking people to spoonfeed you!!!

So....going back of several pages of Aussie Anger and the like to the model release I have mixed feelings.

The scale of the Primaris is great. I can even get behind The extra armour plating on the midsection of the armour (it's not like wearing actual body armour doesn't make you look fat in real life....no wait, it does). But there is definitely something missing in the look of the new guys but I can't place my finger on it.

The armoured hood rather makes sense from tactical design standpoint, though it definitely makes models look like they're training to be chapter Librarians.

On the flip side I love the new Nurgle models and if I was into building armies with Rhinos I'd be all over that set in a heartbeat. The Bloat Drone looks pretty fantastic as well and is a nice update to FW's design without getting silly

I am surprised that the 5 books were for the factions instead of the core rules being one of them, but the division makes sense and I will likely end up getting all of them in the long run because they're tons cheaper than getting the codexes currently.

Core rulebook blew me away. 12 pages of core rules doesn't take up much space there, so with a triple digit page count I'm hoping most of the book is dedicated to mission and terrain rules.

Overall I'm fairly pleased with what I'm seeing, though I still feel something is lacking on the Primaris Marines. But since I'm not planning on getting any that's a non-issue for me right now.

There will also be a new 40k app soon after release - we dont have much info yet but it could be a better choice price-wise

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 tirnaog wrote:

Also where Sisters of Battle,{dont like new name}.
Have they been finally dropped?
Was the only Imperial Army I was interested in doing.
:(

Sisters are probably in Imperial Agents list.

Someone confirmed that with Facebook and there was a screenshot of that a couple pages back. Basically it's the general Imperium section for Sisters, Inquisition and Assassins,

 Yodhrin wrote:


A truly hi-larious objection, given that that's exactly what they did to turn their website into a mere webstore in the first place - it used to be an actual place for news and articles.

Guess what - people aren't looking at the GW website all day, but most are checking Facebook constantly. There is zero reason for them to develop live streaming for their own website when they have Facebook and Twitch.

 xttz wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


I was really hoping it would be a bespoke rule, as that would make Crisis Suits unique and interesting and open up the door for something like the Seraphim to get a similar rule without just making it so that units with "Fly" ignore the penalty for Falling Back.

Ah well...

To be fair, a Crisis Suit falling back is very different from a Jetbike falling back. Their movement speed will be far more limited; if the whole unit can't get more than 1" from an enemy unit they're stuck. Some clever positioning of transports nearby can do a lot to help there. Plus we've already seen special unit rules that let you prevent enemies from falling back at all, I have no doubt there will be more of those.

If I'm going to be honest, and try not to derail things further, a big reason why I was wanting it to be a bespoke rule?

To prevent the silliness of Riptides potentially being able to Fall Back and fire normally.

We don't have the full rules yet for everything, but one of my biggest concerns is things that didn't need help(Jetbikes, Riptides, FMCs) getting a pretty significant boost with a catch-all special benefit for Flying.
It seems like "Fly" is going to be a Big Deal from the outset.

 Crimson wrote:

I can't understand everyone hating on the jump dudes. They're absolutely amazing! I really hope that the Primaris characters have a jump pack option, I really want a jump lieutenant or a captain.

As for the captain, that photo really shows what's wrong with the pose; the upper torso leans backwards, making the stomach look fat. The legs and the right arm bending backwards don't help either. I need to completely chop up this dude and rebuild him.

I can't speak for anyone else, but here's the two reasons I'm hating on the jump dudes (and indeed, ALL of the Primaris Marines):

First, for the modeler and hobbyist: GW has been a company, for years, which has been amazingly friendly for the modeler and converter. SM are pretty much the paragon of that treatment. Bits work across models, etc. It's very collector-friendly and rewards a deep bits box. You can convert from one Chapter to another, use elements from one model to another, etc. The introduction of what seems to be a complete redesign of the range in a slightly different scale torpedoes this friendliness. Much of the current SM range will not be compatible with the new range, and much of the new range will not be compatible with the old range. While this doesn't hurt a new buyer that much, I think it will be bad for both the current 'long-term' hobbyist, and for the development of MORE long-term hobbyists. While people starting new games or new armies are quite happy to assemble 'out of the box', as people play longer and collect longer, they often want to do more customized and personalized models. Creating an entirely new and somewhat incompatible range for your bestselling line complicates that. Given that GW was able to release plastic Mark IV and Plastic Mark III and plastic Tartaros and Plastic Cataphracti armor, I'm not sure why it was impossible to design a Mark IX or Mark X armor which wasn't almost completely compatible with all the plastic stuff that has been put out.

Even your own quote helps support this point. "Chopping up a dude and reposing him" is a fine and time-honored activity for GW hobbyists. But making your core range less compatible with itself isn't helpful to that.

Second, for the development of the storyline: The introduction of a new sect of Marines which appear to be physically superior to all previous Astartes creates a kind of power imbalance. How 'heroic' are regular marines when Primaris marines are better than them? How elite are the Deathwatch if Primaris marines are bigger and stronger? Will the Deathwatch now preferentially recruit Primaris candidates? Are the Primaris physically superior to Grey Knights? Will the Grey Knights be supplanted by Primaris GK? How do the Primaris compare to Custodian Guard? Will the Custodes retire back to Terra now that Primaris marines are present? Was the threat to Terra reduced by the introduction of new Marines? Can the Primaris marines turn renegade? Will there be Chaos Renegade Primaris marines? How do Imperial heroes like Cassius feel about the Primaris? Will they be pleased with physically superior Marines in their midst? How will line Astartes regard serving alongside Primaris? How will the average Imperial Citizen feel? Will they be more relieved to see Primaris marines, or less pleased to see 'regular' Astartes?

"Oh, the Emperor didn't bless us as much as I hoped. The 'normal' Angels of Death are here. I had hoped for the bigger ones."

Again, as a storyline, Guilliman being revived and forcing the Imperial industry of war to roll out a new and improved Mark of Armor would be simple, decisive, and would not have entailed all these problematic elements that, in my opinion, will both HAVE to be dealt with in the storyline, and will also be a hindrance and/or distraction from what should have been a refreshing, engaging, and really impactful shift forward in the narrative. It may be realistic to have your principles dissolve into petty bickering on the eve of a major offensive, but it doesn't mean that it's an editorially good idea if it draws focus from the plot.

Looking at those jet pack marines the armour seems closer to terminator/new Gravis armour than power armour, I wonder if they'll have a better save?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The endless posts from people who simply haven't read the info are tedious. Use your eyes and stop asking people to spoonfeed you!!!

There's over 300 pages in this thread and around 40 links to rules in the OP, no including the FAQs which have a ton of non-info banter through which you might be able to sift a few more actual answers. I've been trying to keep on top of stuff, but that's a ridiculous amount of stuff for me to just "use my eyes" if I'm not looking for something obvious.

I think his point might be to read whatever the latest article is before commenting on it or asking questions that reading it would answer.