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Warhams-77 wrote:
Another size comparison photo - Source: Steppingbetweengames blog



http://steppingbetweengames.com/new-8th-edition-40k-models-size-comparison/

Jesus it just feels odd looking at a normal marine now. Which is annoying cas now I wish I could have giant Templars but just heads and pads won't cut it.

Damn that Nurgle Lord is a proper sort!

So, to make sure I understand.

"Core" Rules are free as a 12 page downloadable PDF. These rules only cover Open Play.

Unit rules will not be available as downloadable PDFs as they are with Age of Sigmar. On Day 1, we'll have to purchase between one and five stop gap 'Index' books that show all unit datasheets and point values for Matched Play. At some point in the future, army specific Codexes will be released with additional army specific rules/missions/etc. Depending on faction, we may have to wait months or years for a proper 8th edition Codex. Rumored price for each 'Index' book is ~$25 USD.

Matched Play rules will only be available in a 280 page, hardbound core rule book, which will itself only be available as a standalone purchase or as part of a new starter set. Rumored price is ~$50 for the hardback by itself or ~$150 as part of the starter set.

So... if I want to use my Tau/Necron/Inquisition army to play a Matched Play game, which is to say a competitive game using points... just like 7th, 6th, 5th, etc... I'll need to spend ~$125 on day one and then $100-150 down the road as Codexes become available.

That's a far cry from 'free' rules. Without PDF datasheets, I don't think it's even possible to play an Open Play game for free with these 'free' rules.

To me is absurd how people is assuming that because we are having Indexs we aren't gonna have the dathasleets for free.
As you said, is imposible to play the game with the free rules without the units rules.

At minimun I think we are gonna have the 12 basic rules for free and all the dathasleets with Power Levels for free.
And when the APP launch for 40k, I'm sure that is gonna have all the points on it.

And maybe the core rulebook will have all the points for all the models like GHB. I doub it, because AOS points are more like 40K Power levels.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Jesus it just feels odd looking at a normal marine now. Which is annoying cas now I wish I could have giant Templars but just heads and pads won't cut it.

Scale creep my ass. That's a full on sprint.

 Galas wrote:
To me is absurd how people is assuming that because we are having Indexs we aren't gonna have the dathasleets for free.
As you said, is imposible to play the game with the free rules without the units rules.

At minimun I think we are gonna have the 12 basic rules for free and all the dathasleets with Power Levels for free.
And when the APP launch for 40k, I'm sure that is gonna have all the points on it.

And maybe the core rulebook will have all the points for all the models like GHB. I doub it, because AOS points are more like 40K Power levels.

I think the main point of confusion is the infographic on Warhammer Community showing you what you needed to play. I am really hopeful for free unit rules and although the infographic has me doubting it, I can't see how they would make an app for 40k without them being accesable.

If the dataslates with power levels are on each model of the website. Then it's likely they will create an app for the match play points. Also, Battlescribe and Army Builder are very likely to have theirs updated for 8th edition shortly afterwords. This just leaves you with scenarios. Which most tournament organizers give a packet for their individual tournament. So, this just leaves needing the main book if you wish to play the scenarios in non-tournament play.

I'm only looking to have fun with my models to begin with anyway. The new rules look fantastic, I play AoS so Power Levels are fine for a ready reckoner, and I've grown up with the 40k fluff for so long that playing homebrew custom scenarios that are narrative lead sounds like a dream come true. If there are free unit rules I will probably go a bit crazy and buy models from all over the shop

unmercifulconker wrote:
Scale creep my ass. That's a full on sprint.

It'd be scale creep if they were supposed to be the same thing.

unmercifulconker wrote:
Jesus it just feels odd looking at a normal marine now. Which is annoying cas now I wish I could have giant Templars but just heads and pads won't cut it.

Damn that Nurgle Lord is a proper sort!

They said that the heads and shoulder pads are the same size. Probably done to ensure compatibility with the upgrade sprues.

 Bottle wrote:
I'm only looking to have fun with my models to begin with anyway. The new rules look fantastic, I play AoS so Power Levels are fine for a ready reckoner, and I've grown up with the 40k fluff for so long that playing homebrew custom scenarios that are narrative lead sounds like a dream come true. If there are free unit rules I will probably go a bit crazy and buy models from all over the shop

I'm here, sitting into small forces of Genestealer Cultists, Death Guard, Inquisition and Grey Knights, Orks and Tyranids...
Thats why I play small point games... only Dark Angels and Tau have keep my atention long enough to have a sizable army of them
The bright side is that I can play with new people to the game letting them pick one of those small forces, and as they are very varied, I have 0 problems doing 2vs1 or 2vs2 battles to teach them how to play!

 Galas wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I'm only looking to have fun with my models to begin with anyway. The new rules look fantastic, I play AoS so Power Levels are fine for a ready reckoner, and I've grown up with the 40k fluff for so long that playing homebrew custom scenarios that are narrative lead sounds like a dream come true. If there are free unit rules I will probably go a bit crazy and buy models from all over the shop

I'm here, sitting into small forces of Genestealer Cultists, Death Guard, Inquisition and Grey Knights, Orks and Tyranids...
Thats why I play small point games... only Dark Angels and Tau have keep my atention long enough to have a sizable army of them
The bright side is that I can play with new people to the game letting them pick one of those small forces, and as they are very varied, I have 0 problems doing 2vs1 or 2vs2 battles to teach them how to play!

Sounds like you're living the dream man! You need to host a combat patrol tournament for newbies with all your own stuff :-)

Warhams-77 wrote:
Another size comparison photo - Source: Steppingbetweengames blog

Spoiler:

http://steppingbetweengames.com/new-8th-edition-40k-models-size-comparison/

Hmm the Gravis armour is interesting. At first I assumed it was the Primaris Terminator plate, but now I'm not so sure. With the separate power plant and Primaris style legs it looks more like a bulked up MK-X. Its going to be a long three and a half weeks

What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!

So that we got bass sizes for these nail down correctly?

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

unmercifulconker wrote:
Scale creep my ass. That's a full on sprint.

It'd be scale creep if they were supposed to be the same thing.

Oh common now, we all know they are replacing the existing line. They are the new "normal" marines, and all future development will be for them. I'll be happy to eat my words, but the writing is on the wall.

Now, with that said, I'm HAPPY they are making marines the correct size(relative to humans)

Just ordered some more Prosecutors for bigger Sanguinary Guard and stocking up on a Blood Angel sqaud to give these new Primaris dat BA bling.

Truescale angels of death LETS GET IT OOOOOONNNNNNNN!

Really hope we don't have to wait too long for a Primaris Assault Squad. (That's if we even get one!)

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Hmm the Gravis armour is interesting. At first I assumed it was the Primaris Terminator plate, but now I'm not so sure. With the separate power plant and Primaris style legs it looks more like a bulked up MK-X. Its going to be a long three and a half weeks

I'm guessing it is Primaris Artificer Armor. It's got the regular PA shoulder pads, which almost don't look oversized on it!

 unmercifulconker wrote:


Really hope we don't have to wait too long for a Primaris Assault Squad. (That's if we even get one!)

Uh, there's 3 that come in the new starter, so yes. They are coming!

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
They said that the heads and shoulder pads are the same size. Probably done to ensure compatibility with the upgrade sprues.

The designers really do deserve a pat on the back for this. Problem for me is there's no tabards big enough!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:


Really hope we don't have to wait too long for a Primaris Assault Squad. (That's if we even get one!)

Uh, there's 3 that come in the new starter, so yes. They are coming!

Well I hope we can get the choppy choppy version and not the bang bang one.

 Bulldogging wrote:

Now, with that said, I'm HAPPY they are making marines the correct size(relative to humans)

This call for "truescale" Marines has never made sense to me. The Marines were fine. It's everything else that is too big. We should be calling for smaller human sized models
This is a miniatures game after all.

-

Daedalus81 wrote:

In the index books. You'll have to wait for someone to link the source or just trust me.

Thank you for the answer. I guess I'll trust you. And the absence of a source indicates that I am not inapt at searching.
Thanks to DCannon4LifeMade too.

Kriswall wrote:So, to make sure I understand.

"Core" Rules are free as a 12 page downloadable PDF. These rules only cover Open Play.

Unit rules will not be available as downloadable PDFs as they are with Age of Sigmar. On Day 1, we'll have to purchase between one and five stop gap 'Index' books that show all unit datasheets and point values for Matched Play. At some point in the future, army specific Codexes will be released with additional army specific rules/missions/etc. Depending on faction, we may have to wait months or years for a proper 8th edition Codex. Rumored price for each 'Index' book is ~$25 USD.

Matched Play rules will only be available in a 280 page, hardbound core rule book, which will itself only be available as a standalone purchase or as part of a new starter set. Rumored price is ~$50 for the hardback by itself or ~$150 as part of the starter set.

So... if I want to use my Tau/Necron/Inquisition army to play a Matched Play game, which is to say a competitive game using points... just like 7th, 6th, 5th, etc... I'll need to spend ~$125 on day one and then $100-150 down the road as Codexes become available.

That's a far cry from 'free' rules. Without PDF datasheets, I don't think it's even possible to play an Open Play game for free with these 'free' rules.

GW hasn't said anything to indicate whether or not individual unit rules will be available as free PDFs, but some of the things mentioned shortly after the edition was announced heavily implied it to me. I don't feel confident in saying it'll definitely happen, but with how many other things have been ported over from AoS, I'd be more surprised to NOT see PDF dataslates. As far as the hardback goes, I would expect to see GW following the recent trend of re-releasing the books in softback at a lower price point after a couple months. Definitely too early to get worked up about the cost of entry. We simply don't have enough information yet.

 Galef wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

Now, with that said, I'm HAPPY they are making marines the correct size(relative to humans)

This call for "truescale" Marines has never made sense to me. The Marines were fine. It's everything else that is too big. We should be calling for smaller human sized models
This is a miniatures game after all.

-

It's still a miniatures game. They're a tiny bit bigger, it's not like we're suddenly playing with 12" action figures.

 Galef wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

Now, with that said, I'm HAPPY they are making marines the correct size(relative to humans)

This call for "truescale" Marines has never made sense to me. The Marines were fine. It's everything else that is too big. We should be calling for smaller human sized models
This is a miniatures game after all.

-

What he said.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
It'd be scale creep if they were supposed to be the same thing.

I think most everyone is aware that the fluff was created to justify selling larger scale marines that people (who own current SM armies that they have poured hundreds of hours into painting) would eventually migrate to.

tneva82 wrote:
This is the problem I was talking about. If this is how it goes if unit gets wounded by 4 lascannons that's 4 lascannons you need to roll one by one.

d6. 4 wounds. 4 DR rolls.
d6. 2 wounds. 2 DR rolls
d6. 6 wounds. 6 DR rolls
d6. 1 wound. 1 DR roll

See? That would be very slow rolling! With speed and simplicy being buzzwords I doubt that is how it goes.

That looks completely wrong. Somehow you're rolling for damage twice per lascannon, no wonder it seems so slow to you. Try:
4 lascannons have hit and wounded. Roll saves (if any). Only then, for unsaved wounds, roll d6 damage per unsaved wound, one at a time. You don't cause d6 wounds per lascannon, then roll for damage for each wound. You've essentially squared the damage done per lascannon in your example.

Not a fan of the Primaris. While they still look like Space Marines, they have a more modern sci-fi visuals. I prefere my marines more crude and gothic.

I wonder how marines will coexist in the next couple of releases. I hope we won't see a phase-out of the old scale models.

 Galef wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

Now, with that said, I'm HAPPY they are making marines the correct size(relative to humans)

This call for "truescale" Marines has never made sense to me. The Marines were fine. It's everything else that is too big. We should be calling for smaller human sized models
This is a miniatures game after all.

-

Marines has never been "fine". They've always been badly proportioned with weird anatomy.

What have been more than "fine" are all the human sized minis that GW have released in the last couple of years. These new marines are a massive improvement in both scale and proportions over the current ones. I'm not fond of the new jump packs or the gravis armour, but the standard primaries marines are fantastic.

The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

The conversion kits (ie. Shoulder pads and/or helmets) for most chapters should have most armies up and rolling in no time. BTs and DAs.. eh..not so much. Very glad I learned to sculpt

Anyone who does happen to be looking for tabards for BTs, Spellcrow has some. No clue if they'll be big enough for the new marines or not but it's something to consider.

 Darkseid wrote:


I wonder how marines will coexist in the next couple of releases. I hope we won't see a phase-out of the old scale models.

Me too, although I think the writing is on the wall though, sadly.