40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**Warhams-77**

More photos - via Faeit und Miniwars.eu

Spoiler:

**Crimson**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
That's assuming the LTs and Ancient are HQs at all. Perhaps they will form a Command Squad. Command Squads should have LTs anyway, not Sergeants.

Unless they include a special Detachment, there are too many HQs to run in a Patrol Detachment, but not enough Troops to run a Battalion.

I really hope that the lieutenants can be taken as the mandatory HQ. It never made any sense that small patrols composed of couple of squads were led by a high ranking officer.

**oldone**

Crimson wrote:
Does anyone else think that the starter forces are really HQ heavy? The marines have three HQs, four if the Ancient is a HQ too. Nurgle has three HQs. This is probably not optimal for forces this small... I'd assume force consisting of less than twenty marines would be led by a single lieutenant and that's it.

(Not complaining, just an observation.)

I have a feeling some will be elite character like we know the kroot shaper is leaving the unit but isn't a HQ I could also to see via the wording how brood lords work with genestealers so they would be like solos from WH/H.

**Alpharius**

WHY are the Plague Marines getting bigger too?

I mean, sure, we know why, just look at Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, etc.

...but still!

**lessthanjeff**

I love the new models, but something that is making me nervous now is transporting them. A lot of my cases came cut for the smaller marines. I get the feeling these won't fit standing up in those nice citadel cases that have the channel foam setups, for example.

**nintura**

Alpharius wrote:
WHY are the Plague Marines getting bigger too?

I mean, sure, we know why, just look at Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, etc.

...but still!

They said the chaos gods have been busy, improving things. The chaos marines are gaining power, and it seems size as well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whoever painted the metallic blue smurf... what in the feth did you do to that model? What happened to the head?

**Tyel**

HQs are probably not optimal but AOS points to them being pushed (presumably successfully).

I'd have thought ebay splitting the box would be profitable because it almost always is. Id like the Death Guard units. I'd probably pay say £50 for them (assuming buying the individual kits when released is going to be much higher - characters alone could be £15 each). If you can get the starter at a 20-25% discount then its easy. Buy at about £75 and sell both sets for about £100.
The issue is that many people will do it and this brings the price down.

**Deadshot**

Justyn wrote:
I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.

Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.

I'll go with US prices as they are more relevant for me. $160 for the set. Selling things off $50 for the rulebook, its $60 on the shelf so should be easy. I'll get rid of things I don't need at $8 for characters and $12 for squads, $60 for the faction probably a bit less if its the Nurgle stuff and a bit more if its the Marines. Yes they are mono-pose but they will be 20%-30% of the cost of the regular kit. Well worth it to many people. So for $50-60 I get a second set of what I want. Will I make money? no. Will I get that and keep what I want at a decent price, definitely.

You're talking about something very different to what I am. You want more than just the rulebook, so you don't need to make a profit on the rest of the contents to justify it. If you buy at 160 retail and sell the Nurgle for 45, you've now gotten your desired contents for a 45 discount on retail.

If you just wanted the rulebook, you'd need to sell the rest of the set for $101 minimum, which is more than the retail price of those models, so you're no longer offering a cheap alternative for buyers.

Okay, I'm going to sum this up and let this argument die: Why would you spend extra money for the rulebook, and HOPE to make profit on the things that SOME people WANT, when you can just buy the rulebook at retail? The rulebook is something EVERYONE NEEDS. So if you NEED the rulebook and WANT EXTRA models, why fidget around with all this business and not just straight up buy the set, then sell the spare rulebook to the people who NEED it?

**NivlacSupreme**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Does anyone else think that the starter forces are really HQ heavy? The marines have three HQs, four if the Ancient is a HQ too. Nurgle has three HQs. This is probably not optimal for forces this small... I'd assume force consisting of less than twenty marines would be led by a single lieutenant and that's it.

(Not complaining, just an observation.)
That's assuming the LTs and Ancient are HQs at all. Perhaps they will form a Command Squad. Command Squads should have LTs anyway, not Sergeants.

Unless they include a special Detachment, there are too many HQs to run in a Patrol Detachment, but not enough Troops to run a Battalion.

I think it is kind of funny that the entire time I was a Lieutenant, no role existed for a Lieutenant in a Space Marine army. But as soon as I get promoted to Captain, BOOM, Lieutenants all over the place. Oh well, I hope a custom kit for a Captain comes out so I can commemorate my promotion with a new model.

They have them in the Heresy.

**ClockworkZion**

streetsamurai wrote:
We saw the sheet of the inceptors, and they have no weapon options

That might have been the sheet from the starter and not the unit's full options they'll have when they get a kit.

**wuestenfux**

Alpharius wrote:
WHY are the Plague Marines getting bigger too?

I mean, sure, we know why, just look at Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, etc.

...but still!

Good question. Maybe they want 40k at a larger scale. Maybe they will then adapt the size of the transports and tanks.

**Vorian**

The one from earlier was normal marine height though - maybe this one is something fancy?

**casvalremdeikun**

Crimson wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
That's assuming the LTs and Ancient are HQs at all. Perhaps they will form a Command Squad. Command Squads should have LTs anyway, not Sergeants.

Unless they include a special Detachment, there are too many HQs to run in a Patrol Detachment, but not enough Troops to run a Battalion.

I really hope that the lieutenants can be taken as the mandatory HQ. It never made any sense that small patrols composed of couple of squads were led by a high ranking officer.

I hope so as well. Perhaps a Command Squad can be taken as an HQ though. Who knows.

Funny side note: In real life, platoon has more Captains in it than an entire Space Marine Chapter.

I have to figure out how I am going to delineate the Lieutenants from bog-standard Marines in my Crimson Fists. I won't be changing their heraldry at all, which means no colored helmets. Giving them two red fists (despite them not being Veterans...) is about all I can do. Hopefully some of the transfers represent the command roles. Heck, I hope that the box includes transfers for multiple Chapters anyway. Probably won't because Ultramarines, but a guy can hope.

The multipart kits can't come soon enough. One thing of note from the images on Miniwars is that the Captain's head is separate from his body. Hopefully that means the heads of much of the rest of the models are separate as well. Should make modifying them much easier.

**Future War Cultist**

I like that space marines have lieutenants now. I always felt like they were missing an important part in the chain of command. Had I had my way, the old space marine command squads would have had lieutenants instead of just sergeants.

**str00dles1**

Alpharius wrote:WHY are the Plague Marines getting bigger too?

I mean, sure, we know why, just look at Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, etc.

...but still!

Bring it all to true scale on how they should have been from the start. More curious to see a thousands son placed next to a numarine for a scale shot.

ClockworkZion wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
We saw the sheet of the inceptors, and they have no weapon options

That might have been the sheet from the starter and not the unit's full options they'll have when they get a kit.

This is exactly like Prosecutors are in AoS. Starter had double hammers only. Box set had hammers, shields/spear and 2 handed weapon options. I can easily see these guys getting a heavy weapon option with machine gun bolters and possibly CC option in the box.

**casvalremdeikun**

ClockworkZion wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
We saw the sheet of the inceptors, and they have no weapon options

That might have been the sheet from the starter and not the unit's full options they'll have when they get a kit.

Indeed. When Stormcast Eternals were first released, the datasheet in the starter set only had them being able to have Warhammers, despite a sword variant eventually coming out.

**Justyn**

You're talking about something very different to what I am. You want more than just the rulebook, so you don't need to make a profit on the rest of the contents to justify it. If you buy at 160 retail and sell the Nurgle for 45, you've now gotten your desired contents for a 45 discount on retail.

If you just wanted the rulebook, you'd need to sell the rest of the set for $101 minimum, which is more than the retail price of those models, so you're no longer offering a cheap alternative for buyers.

Okay, I'm going to sum this up and let this argument die: Why would you spend extra money for the rulebook, and HOPE to make profit on the things that SOME people WANT, when you can just buy the rulebook at retail? The rulebook is something EVERYONE NEEDS. So if you NEED the rulebook and WANT EXTRA models, why fidget around with all this business and not just straight up buy the set, then sell the spare rulebook to the people who NEED it?

Ah my misunderstanding.

**Future War Cultist**

Let's face it. The marines of all persuasions should have always been that size. GW is just correcting it.

**ClockworkZion**

All the bloat in the game had to go somewhere. Looks like it went into those Plague Marines...

Seriously though, making them the same size as the current Tacticals kit is fine in my book. They are a score stouter than though models though, but I'm not complaining as they,re more visually interesting too.

**Warhams-77**

Future War Cultist wrote:
I like that space marines have lieutenants now. I always felt like they were missing an important part in the chain of command. Had I had my way, the old space marine command squads would have had lieutenants instead of just sergeants.

SM Lieutenants had rules and models throughout 1st Edition and functioned basically as 1st officiers to the Commander

They were independent characters with minor hero stats (champions, minor heroes and major heroes stat categories were used for most 40k factions). I am happy they are going to bring them back too.

**Mr Morden**

kronk wrote:
Deadshot wrote:

The mini-rulebook was different, you got added value of conveniance which you couldn't buy off the shelf.

Yeah, I kept the mini rulebook in my travel backpack so I could flip through it on the plane or hotel.

Mini rulebook is a sad loss

**wuestenfux**

Future War Cultist wrote:
I like that space marines have lieutenants now. I always felt like they were missing an important part in the chain of command. Had I had my way, the old space marine command squads would have had lieutenants instead of just sergeants.

In the famous CSM 3.5 edition codex, they had lieutenants. I ran two of them on bikes.

**casvalremdeikun**

Warhams-77 wrote:
Future War Cultist wrote:
I like that space marines have lieutenants now. I always felt like they were missing an important part in the chain of command. Had I had my way, the old space marine command squads would have had lieutenants instead of just sergeants.

SM Lieutenants had rules and models throughout 1st Edition and functioned basically as 1st officiers to the Commander They were independent characters with minor hero stats (champions, minor heroes and major heroes stat categories were used for most 40k factions). I am happy they are going to bring them back too.

Cool. I was not aware of that. I always flavored the Command Squad as being the Lieutenants of a SM Company anyway, but actually have a true role for them now is great. I wish the included models were equally blingy though. The Auto Bolt Rifle Lieutenant looks rather plain next to the Power Sword Lieutenant.

**nintura**

ClockworkZion wrote:
All the bloat in the game had to go somewhere. Looks like it went into those Plague Marines...

Seriously though, making them the same size as the current Tacticals kit is fine in my book. They are a score stouter than though models though, but I'm not complaining as they,re more visually interesting too.

That isn't a tactical size. They are the size of the Primaris by the pictures. Even same base size.

**Bottle**

If you go to your local GW they all have a Primaris and Death Guard painted by the army painters! They are fantastic sculpts. There must be some variety in the Death Guard heights themselves because this one is definitely bulkier and bigger than my WIP Deathwatch Heavy.

**casvalremdeikun**

Mr Morden wrote:
kronk wrote:
Deadshot wrote:

The mini-rulebook was different, you got added value of conveniance which you couldn't buy off the shelf.

Yeah, I kept the mini rulebook in my travel backpack so I could flip through it on the plane or hotel.

Mini rulebook is a sad loss

Yup. I am sure one will come eventually, if needed though. At least the Indexes are paperback.

**Latro_**

Alpharius wrote:
WHY are the Plague Marines getting bigger too?

I mean, sure, we know why, just look at Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, etc.

...but still!

yea this worries me from my collection standpoint... new zerkers are unlikely to be small either i bet

**ClockworkZion**

nintura wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
All the bloat in the game had to go somewhere. Looks like it went into those Plague Marines...

Seriously though, making them the same size as the current Tacticals kit is fine in my book. They are a score stouter than though models though, but I'm not complaining as they,re more visually interesting too.

That isn't a tactical size. They are the size of the Primaris by the pictures. Even same base size.

That's the 32mm base.bthe Dark Angel is on the old bases that came with the 7th ed starter.

But you are correct. They are the same size.

And ai,m still okay with it.

**Alpharius**

nintura wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
WHY are the Plague Marines getting bigger too?

I mean, sure, we know why, just look at Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, etc.

...but still!

They said the chaos gods have been busy, improving things. The chaos marines are gaining power, and it seems size as well.

So you're saying that...Chaos is being to grow?!?

(Or something like that!)

I would like it if the Primaris Marines remained the only 'tall ones' for at least a little while!

**Latro_**

Be interesting to see a TS marine in the lineup