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Daedalus81 wrote:

Well...this is not helpful. It does not solve the lascannon conundrum.

You obviously roll the damage after the save has been failed. I see no problem here.

Wulfey wrote:
This is glorious. Look out sir is dead! DIE DIE DIE

That was the worst rule at the LVO. All kinds of stupid gamesmanship rolling 1 die at a time to flip over some wounds onto some sponge thing. It was total

How is this an LVO issue?

Look out sirs had to be made for each wound.

I agree that it was a bad rule and I hope it's gone. Remember that we haven't seen character rules, yet. Look Out Sir might be there, but I doubt it. They've said you can't target characters if there is an intervening model.

Youn wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:


I hope they specifically address batch rolling and rolling saves before allocation in units with identical armor saves. Otherwise this set up takes longer and is more complicated than needs be.

They did. If you read that they allocate wounds then roll saves then inflict damage.

So, in my example before were you received 1,1,2,3 damage on your primaris marines. It was done incorrectly.

You would do as follows;

1) Roll 12 to hits 9 hit.
2) Roll 9 wound rolls 4 actually wound
3) Allocate out 4 wounds starting at a single target.
4) Roll 4 saves
5) Roll damage 1,1,2,3 (Note in this case you cannot multi-roll this, you have to roll these individually removing a model once it dies)

The only way to speed up phase 5 is to roll 4 separately colored dice and say white, red, blue, green are my order of damage inflicted.

That's the way you speed it up, but actually the rules are different.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and eventually remove the model
6) Select another attack and go back to 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOS like rules will be plenty, but will use the AoS formula.

"Roll if the char suffers damage. If succesful take an equal amount of mortal wounds and the char receives no damage"

So you always save on the character and the LOS is used as a FnP roll.

Edit: Look at this for reference https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-eternitywarden-en.pdf

I was looking at how to correctly multi-roll those instead of doing each individual attack separately. Since, noone wants to go through a 150 man IG army rolling 1 man at a time.

Spoletta wrote:


That's the way you speed it up, but actually the rules are different.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and eventually remove the model
6) Select another attack and go back to 1.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and go to 6
6) If model has the new Damage Save (aka new FNP), Roll save for each damage. Go to 7
7) Apply all non-saved Damage to model. If damage >= models's wounds, remove model. Go to 8.
8) Select another attack and go back to 1

Youn wrote:
I was looking at how to correctly multi-roll those instead of doing each individual attack separately. Since, noone wants to go through a 150 man IG army rolling 1 man at a time.

The problem *only* applies to multi-wound models being hit by multi-wound weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Well...this is not helpful. It does not solve the lascannon conundrum.

You obviously roll the damage after the save has been failed. I see no problem here.

Well, yes, but I would have preferred a batch rolling solution.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Youn wrote:
I was looking at how to correctly multi-roll those instead of doing each individual attack separately. Since, noone wants to go through a 150 man IG army rolling 1 man at a time.

The problem *only* applies to multi-wound models being hit by multi-wound weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Well...this is not helpful. It does not solve the lascannon conundrum.

You obviously roll the damage after the save has been failed. I see no problem here.

Well, yes, but I would have preferred a batch rolling solution.

To be honest, you can probably batch roll with different colored dice. It's not like it'll take -that- long to roll multiple damage in most situations. Most multi-damage weapons we've seen don't have high shot outputs.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

To be honest, you can probably batch roll with different colored dice. It's not like it'll take -that- long to roll multiple damage in most situations. Most multi-damage weapons we've seen don't have high shot outputs.

Yes, but the order in which they are applied matters quite a bit.

I don't expect it to be a huge issue, but there will likely be some scenarios where it could be really slow.

Yes, you can allocate and roll different colored dice.

I have 5 marines 1 is a sergeant, 1 has a plasma gun, they take 8 bolter wounds, I allocate 6 to regular guys and one each to plasma and Sergeant and roll 6 black dice, one red and one white.

It's not a deal breaker.

But I would have preferred it to read: "if all members of a unit have the same armor save, then roll saves before allocating wounds."

In that scenario, I'd just pick up the 8 dice and roll, then remove models equal to the failed saves. Much cleaner, imo.

Like I said, it's not the end of the world, but it's more complicated and time consuming than it needs to be.

Indeed in some situations it could take a long time.
I expect high rof high damage weapons to have fixed damage stat, but the fact that the HYMP are damage d3 does not bode well.

10 lascannon. If autocannon is d3 10 autocannons...

Daedalus81 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

To be honest, you can probably batch roll with different colored dice. It's not like it'll take -that- long to roll multiple damage in most situations. Most multi-damage weapons we've seen don't have high shot outputs.

Yes, but the order in which they are applied matters quite a bit.

I don't expect it to be a huge issue, but there will likely be some scenarios where it could be really slow.

It doesn't really matter. Damage caused by wounds don't carry over.

What matters is the rules for wound allocation, not damage allocation.

They usually put the guidelines for batch rolling at the end of the section, but they might have cut it out this time around.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
They usually put the guidelines for batch rolling at the end of the section, but they might have cut it out this time around.

I could see it being a day one FAQ sort of thing if people have issues with it before launch (since there are demo games starting on the 3rd).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
They usually put the guidelines for batch rolling at the end of the section, but they might have cut it out this time around.

I could see it being a day one FAQ sort of thing if people have issues with it before launch (since there are demo games starting on the 3rd).

I would expect a hole in the rules that causes extra dice rolling to resolve attacks would have been caught by the tournament player playtesters. I'm comfortable assuming this is addressed in the full rules.

Honestly it only matters for multi wound weapons against multi wound units.

Thing is if the unit has two wounds

Did I get a three plus? remove model did I not? Then the next wound is gone as well. Continue on.

Once we get the hang of it it shouldn't take too long just need to get used to the new process

 deviantduck wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Spoiler:

That's the way you speed it up, but actually the rules are different.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and eventually remove the model
6) Select another attack and go back to 1.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and go to 6
6) If model has the new Damage Save (aka new FNP), Roll save for each damage. Go to 7
7) Apply all non-saved Damage to model. If damage >= models's wounds, remove model. Go to 8.
8) Select another attack and go back to 1

skarsol wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
They usually put the guidelines for batch rolling at the end of the section, but they might have cut it out this time around.

I could see it being a day one FAQ sort of thing if people have issues with it before launch (since there are demo games starting on the 3rd).

I would expect a hole in the rules that causes extra dice rolling to resolve attacks would have been caught by the tournament player playtesters. I'm comfortable assuming this is addressed in the full rules.

Quite possibly.

That said, I still expect there to be a day one FAQ for stuff people don't get.

The army that is going to need to use many colored dice is the Greyknights. As each one carries a force weapon that does d3 damage. So, any time you face Primaris or Terminators. Your going to run into this rule.

I am going to hunt down a set of 6 sided dice that are Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet. That way I can just declare my order as ROYGBIV.

So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

I'm sure we'll get acclimated to the new system of To Hit, Wound, Save, Damage and be able to figure out batch rolling, but there's no doubt that it will be more involved and take longer to do than the current system - which is a shame in my opinion.

I believe they could have moved to this new system, but kept it fast by removing player choice from the equation. By keeping the 'remove casualties from the front' mechanic you don't have to fuss around with deciding who takes the wound/damage and then making sure to roll for special models separately. It would then also have eliminated the bullgak of special models always being the last ones removed and kept movement/positioning relevant.

A missed opportunity for a great system IMO.

Dudeface wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Spoiler:

That's the way you speed it up, but actually the rules are different.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and eventually remove the model
6) Select another attack and go back to 1.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and go to 6
6) If model has the new Damage Save (aka new FNP), Roll save for each damage. Go to 7
7) Apply all non-saved Damage to model. If damage >= models's wounds, remove model. Go to 8.
8) Select another attack and go back to 1

Hang on that black and white pages leaked on spikey bits, isnt the dude writing some of the faction focus articles the dude from spikey bitz?

Edit: ah its FLG my bad

Youn wrote:
The army that is going to need to use many colored dice is the Greyknights. As each one carries a force weapon that does d3 damage. So, any time you face Primaris or Terminators. Your going to run into this rule.

I am going to hunt down a set of 6 sided dice that are Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet. That way I can just declare my order as ROYGBIV.

You can almost never batch roll saves and damage from multi-damage weapons to multi wound models, because wounds have to be allocated to damaged models first. So if you have a unit of 5 terminators, but one has suffered a wound, you can't allocate your 4 wounds to 4 different models and roll a different colored dice for each. You have to roll one save, then if it's failed apply damage to the wounded model, etc.

But that will probably be a corner case and I can live with it.

It does give IG 10 wounds melta guns.

@docdoom77: The wounds are fine if the unit all has the same armor. Which should be common. Since, you kill off a model then move to the next model. I am actually applying 4 wounds to the unit. Not to a single model. You have to keep applying the same wound to a model if it's already wounded but not dead. It's the application of damage that applies after the fact.

So, if I say you have 4 wounds and fail 4 saves.
I then roll my damage which I must tell you in correct order so, 1,4,2,1 means you pick a model that failed. Apply 1 damage, then 4 damage and kill it. Then pick a second model and apply 2 damage killing it, then pick a third model and apply 1 wound to it. I don't get any say in which one you are picking. So, feel free to pick your generic guys before you special or heavy weapons.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

To be honest, you can probably batch roll with different colored dice. It's not like it'll take -that- long to roll multiple damage in most situations. Most multi-damage weapons we've seen don't have high shot outputs.

Yes, but the order in which they are applied matters quite a bit.

I don't expect it to be a huge issue, but there will likely be some scenarios where it could be really slow.

It doesn't really matter. Damage caused by wounds don't carry over.

What matters is the rules for wound allocation, not damage allocation.

I know - that's the problem

If you have a 3W model with 2 wounds left then by RAW you can't assign any wounds to anyone else. So you have to assign one wound, roll the save, and roll the damage. If the damage doesn't kill the model then you assign the next wound to the same model, roll the save, and roll the damage.

And so on.

You *can't* assign all the wounds, roll all the saves, and roll the damage as different colored dice.

 oni wrote:
I'm sure we'll get acclimated to the new system of To Hit, Wound, Save, Damage and be able to figure out batch rolling, but there's no doubt that it will be more involved and take longer to do than the current system - which is a shame in my opinion.

I believe they could have moved to this new system, but kept it fast by removing player choice from the equation. By keeping the 'remove casualties from the front' mechanic you don't have to fuss around with deciding who takes the wound/damage and then making sure to roll for special models separately. It would then also have eliminated the bullgak of special models always being the last ones removed and kept movement/positioning relevant.

A missed opportunity for a great system IMO.

Casualties from the front?
Removing that abomination was one of the best things to ever happen in 40K.

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

And that's why you will roll those lasguns one by one. Once one wound goes through, here comes an high AP weapon to finish it off.

Spoletta wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

And that's why you will roll those lasguns one by one. Once one wound goes through, here comes an high AP weapon to finish it off.

If somebody tried to roll their lasguns one by one, it would be the LAST time I played that person. roll them all, roll saves, allocate to the wounded model first and THEN roll the lascannon.