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 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Unless the model is wounded - then they have no choice. I'll be curious to see if you can have a mixed storm shield unit though. I'm doubtful that it will exist - or stormshields will be different.

Also - shoot only the lascannons at the termies and the lasguns at something else.

It should be noted a WOUND is not DAMAGE in this system.

A wound is possible damage.

I wound a unit x number of times. Then you make x number of saves. Any unsaved wounds then apply damage.

Spoletta wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Spoiler:

That's the way you speed it up, but actually the rules are different.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and eventually remove the model
6) Select another attack and go back to 1.

1) Roll 1 attack to hit, if hit go to 2.
2) Roll 1 wound, if succesful go to 3
3) Allocate the wound
4) Roll save, if failed go to 5
5) Roll damage and go to 6
6) If model has the new Damage Save (aka new FNP), Roll save for each damage. Go to 7
7) Apply all non-saved Damage to model. If damage >= models's wounds, remove model. Go to 8.
8) Select another attack and go back to 1

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Thankfully, no. They said that once a model is wounded, you must continue to allocate wounds to it. Defenders pick who gets wounded initially, but whoever takes the first wound has to take the rest until he's dead.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Thankfully, no. They said that once a model is wounded, you must continue to allocate wounds to it. Defenders pick who gets wounded initially, but whoever takes the first wound has to take the rest until he's dead.

Perhaps allocation will be a minimum of up to the remaining wounds the model has left?

Curious how that works when multiple models are wounded. Do you start with the least number of remaining wounds and work your way up?

There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Thankfully, no. They said that once a model is wounded, you must continue to allocate wounds to it. Defenders pick who gets wounded initially, but whoever takes the first wound has to take the rest until he's dead.

True, but I'm not going to waste my time with you rolling one lasgun shot at a time trying to create this situation... And I have a strong feeling I'm not alone on this.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Thankfully, no. They said that once a model is wounded, you must continue to allocate wounds to it. Defenders pick who gets wounded initially, but whoever takes the first wound has to take the rest until he's dead.

Perhaps allocation will be a minimum of up to the remaining wounds the model has left?

Curious how that works when multiple models are wounded. Do you start with the least number of remaining wounds and work your way up?

How would multiple models ever be wounded simultaneously? If you always have to assign wounds to wounded models then they always die before the next guy takes any wounds, this really cuts down on wound counters needed for multiple wound units.

 davou wrote:
any confirmation yet on how charge moves work? Do you still get to move if you fail to connect?

not 100%

I agree, the wording does indeed make it appear that failed charges still move.

this is amazing, you can basically use it as a move (of course, you have to be in range to even declare).

I honestly think allocation should come after the failed saves. It just makes more sense. I mean why didn't they just follow the same rules as AoS in this aspect.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

Wounds are allocated before taking saves, so the first time a unit takes saves it's theoretically possible for multiple models to be injured at the same time.

 oni wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Thankfully, no. They said that once a model is wounded, you must continue to allocate wounds to it. Defenders pick who gets wounded initially, but whoever takes the first wound has to take the rest until he's dead.

True, but I'm not going to waste my time with you rolling one lasgun shot at a time trying to create this situation... And I have a strong feeling I'm not alone on this.

Why would you roll one lasgun at a time? If the unit has all the same save, you roll all saves, allocate wounds, pick up dead models.

People seem to be overly complicating it, you take your hits, roll to wound, roll your saves assuming they're all the same, the wounded guy takes the hits until he dies or the defender picks 1 dude to take the hits until dies. Repeat until out of wounds.

Super simple, need to drop the 7th or even 5th mindset, this is far closer 3rd ed really.

Breng77 wrote:

 oni wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Thankfully, no. They said that once a model is wounded, you must continue to allocate wounds to it. Defenders pick who gets wounded initially, but whoever takes the first wound has to take the rest until he's dead.

True, but I'm not going to waste my time with you rolling one lasgun shot at a time trying to create this situation... And I have a strong feeling I'm not alone on this.

Why would you roll one lasgun at a time? If the unit has all the same save, you roll all saves, allocate wounds, pick up dead models.

Wounds allocate first, saves come after. I presume this is so mixed save units can take their saves properly.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

Wounds are allocated before taking saves, so the first time a unit takes saves it's theoretically possible for multiple models to be injured at the same time.

They are technically allocated one at a time, so you could never assign them to multiple models simultaneously. So you would allocate 1 wound, take the save, if model takes a wound he must take the next save otherwise it can go on a different model. To speed this up for multiple models with the same save you would roll saves then allocate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also specifies that the rules we see are for making attacks one at a time. There may be different rules for making multiple attacks at once. I assume there is likely a speed rolling for multiple attacks section that follows.

I know one of the first thoughts is "but what about the guys in the squad with different T or Saves?"

Well, to be honest, I think that is going to be pretty rare, or at least a LOT more rare than recent editions.

IC's can't join squads, so more than likely we will only see it on a few "upgrade" models (maybe a tyranid broodlord for example).

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

Wounds are allocated before taking saves, so the first time a unit takes saves it's theoretically possible for multiple models to be injured at the same time.

They are technically allocated one at a time, so you could never assign them to multiple models simultaneously. So you would allocate 1 wound, take the save, if model takes a wound he must take the next save otherwise it can go on a different model. To speed this up for multiple models with the same save you would roll saves then allocate.

That sounds rather complicated and slowed. Multi-wound model units would be a PITA to play quickly in this method.

 RamblingCompanyGaming wrote:
I honestly think allocation should come after the failed saves. It just makes more sense. I mean why didn't they just follow the same rules as AoS in this aspect.

Because damage does not spill over like AoS.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

Wounds are allocated before taking saves, so the first time a unit takes saves it's theoretically possible for multiple models to be injured at the same time.

They are technically allocated one at a time, so you could never assign them to multiple models simultaneously. So you would allocate 1 wound, take the save, if model takes a wound he must take the next save otherwise it can go on a different model. To speed this up for multiple models with the same save you would roll saves then allocate.

That sounds rather complicated and slowed. Multi-wound model units would be a PITA to play quickly in this method.

Yes, but the rules quoted are for making attacks one at a time. The speed up rules might be (for multiple attacks at the same time), roll to hit, roll to wound, take saves (if the same), allocate wounds, roll for damage. Which you would use for all circumstances without mixed saves, which are most units.

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
Hahaha do they know how far up "high orbit" is?

*Googles high orbit distance*

Marketing blurb brain fart aside, the Inceptors sound like a lot of fun. I wonder what other bolt-on parts MK-X will have? So far the Primaris squads have not been direct replacements of any existing Marine units.

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

Wounds are allocated before taking saves, so the first time a unit takes saves it's theoretically possible for multiple models to be injured at the same time.

They are technically allocated one at a time, so you could never assign them to multiple models simultaneously. So you would allocate 1 wound, take the save, if model takes a wound he must take the next save otherwise it can go on a different model. To speed this up for multiple models with the same save you would roll saves then allocate.

That sounds rather complicated and slowed. Multi-wound model units would be a PITA to play quickly in this method.

Yes, but the rules quoted are for making attacks one at a time. The speed up rules might be (for multiple attacks at the same time), roll to hit, roll to wound, take saves (if the same), allocate wounds, roll for damage. Which you would use for all circumstances without mixed saves, which are most units.

Wounds are allocated first in the chart, so I don't know why people keep trying to swap that around.

That said single wound models can easily follow the chart as presented, it's only slowed when dealing with multi-wound models and needing to kill a single model before moving on to the next.

Say you have 3 lascannon hits and 4 bolter hits that have wounded and saves have been failed. You would allocate the successful wounding hits depending on what's best as the defender. For example, a unit of 5 Ork Nobs with 3 wounds each. You would resolve the bolter wounds first dealing 3 damage to a healthy Nob killing it then one damage to a second healthy Nob. You then assign one lascannon hit against the now damaged Nob. Roll for damage. If you roll a 1 the lucky Nob lives to soak the next hit, otherwise he alone is removed (2-6 damage doesn't matter as 2 will kill him). It then goes from 2 total dead Nobs to 5 dead Nobs depending on die rolls. This is one example and it will speed up once everyone plays it a few times.

Dudeface wrote:
People seem to be overly complicating it, you take your hits, roll to wound, roll your saves assuming they're all the same, the wounded guy takes the hits until he dies or the defender picks 1 dude to take the hits until dies. Repeat until out of wounds.

Super simple, need to drop the 7th or even 5th mindset, this is far closer 3rd ed really.

Yes, this. Doesn't seem too hard to me.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
Hahaha do they know how far up "high orbit" is?

*Googles high orbit distance*

Marketing blurb brain fart aside, the Inceptors sound like a lot of fun. I wonder what other bolt-on parts MK-X will have? So far the Primaris squads have not been direct replacements of any existing Marine units.

Hmmm..... while maybe not a direct replacement...two things;

1 - Why would you take assault marines over the new "tau suit-marines". They are incredibly mobile, dish out amazing damage, and have six wounds a unit.
Maybe if you are expecting lots of incoming low ap damage? not sure. Of course, obviously there could be something I am missing here.

2 - Its not just about taking them as replacements - every unit you take is less points for something else.
if after vehicles, flyers, etc. you only have X points for infantry - why not take the better units?

and this is even before we get the primaris dreads....

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

Wounds are allocated before taking saves, so the first time a unit takes saves it's theoretically possible for multiple models to be injured at the same time.

They are technically allocated one at a time, so you could never assign them to multiple models simultaneously. So you would allocate 1 wound, take the save, if model takes a wound he must take the next save otherwise it can go on a different model. To speed this up for multiple models with the same save you would roll saves then allocate.

That sounds rather complicated and slowed. Multi-wound model units would be a PITA to play quickly in this method.

Yes, but the rules quoted are for making attacks one at a time. The speed up rules might be (for multiple attacks at the same time), roll to hit, roll to wound, take saves (if the same), allocate wounds, roll for damage. Which you would use for all circumstances without mixed saves, which are most units.

Wounds are allocated first in the chart, so I don't know why people keep trying to swap that around.

That said single wound models can easily follow the chart as presented, it's only slowed when dealing with multi-wound models and needing to kill a single model before moving on to the next.

Because we don't know if it is swapped around for making multiple attack rolls at once. Look at the first paragraph under resolve attacks it states that the rules shown are for resolving single attacks, and not for rolling multiple attacks at the same time. IN this case it is irrelevant what order you do things in as allocate then save is no different than save then allocate other than that you know whether or not you will fail the save prior to allocation, but unless you are putting it on valuable models first this makes no difference.

 Crimson wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
People seem to be overly complicating it, you take your hits, roll to wound, roll your saves assuming they're all the same, the wounded guy takes the hits until he dies or the defender picks 1 dude to take the hits until dies. Repeat until out of wounds.

Super simple, need to drop the 7th or even 5th mindset, this is far closer 3rd ed really.

Yes, this. Doesn't seem too hard to me.

Agreed

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
Hahaha do they know how far up "high orbit" is?

*Googles high orbit distance*

Marketing blurb brain fart aside, the Inceptors sound like a lot of fun. I wonder what other bolt-on parts MK-X will have? So far the Primaris squads have not been direct replacements of any existing Marine units.

They are just trying to make it sound impressive. For example: In the Real world Navy Seals have dropped off shore 12 miles and swam in. There is zero real world reason to drop guys out 12 miles on a country you are invading (Panama) in this case. So, kicking the Inceptors out 22 miles away from an Earth sized planet and making them rocket/free fall toward the planet is impressive but not very practical. Granted the large ships of the Imperium might have issue if they actually came closer to the planet.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rocks_Are_Not_Free!

[MOD EDIT - Please do NOT quote a huge block of text just to simply add a single sentence reply. - Alpharius]

It doesn't say in the allocation section that the wounds have to be split equally you just have to say where the wounds will start and it has to start with wounded models.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Unless the model is wounded - then they have no choice. I'll be curious to see if you can have a mixed storm shield unit though. I'm doubtful that it will exist - or stormshields will be different.

Also - shoot only the lascannons at the termies and the lasguns at something else.

Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

I can think of Saint Celestine, Techmarine with Servitors and Inquisitor with Henchmen. In all of those cases, I am betting the dataslate has something special written on it.