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 Ravajaxe wrote:
Shooting phase rules question :

Did I missed something, or negative effect for firing through an intervening unit disappeared ?

That seem to be the case for the core rules. Hopefully the advanced rules will flesh it out some.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

jcd386 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Chapters are a subfaction of Astartes and will be the limiting factor for rules like Chapter Tactics (like preventing the Bark Star). They don't denote whole new factions just because they're subfactions. By that logic each of the vanilla chapters would be new factions just because they're not Ultramarines.

Exactly. I only said it was possible that there would be new ones because of what GW said in the Primaris FAQ. "Most excitingly, Guilliman has founded some entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines"

Right, but those will likely follow existing successor chapter rules: pick your parent chapter, that's you're keyword.

Yes i agree that I think that is likely, but we don't know for sure. For all we know they will come out with a <Chapter> only available to Primaris Marines with it's own rules.

All I initially said is that it was possible based on the information we currently have, and we have no way to know for sure.

That new dreadnought is dead sexy...

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Shooting phase rules question :

Did I missed something, or negative effect for firing through an intervening unit disappeared ?

There isn't anything in the core rules. Cover seems to only come from terrain, not intervening units. We seem to be moving away from a pure TLOS system.

Well I think it was obvious that Primaris marines are going to be one of the first codexes released, ofc the new toys will be supported with a new book. But that doesn't make them their own faction - faction keywords are what matter in 8th, not which book the rules are in. And we've already seen that they do not have their own faction keyword.

They do have their own normal keyword tho so there is scope for primaris only chapter traits in a future codex - "this chapter may only select units with the Primaris keyword" and it fits fluff wise for a chapter from the new founding.

 insaniak wrote:
That new dreadnought is dead sexy...

Pun intended?

I agree. I love Dreadnoughts. I hope he has good weapons. He definitely seems to be bristling with them. Two of them going to my Crimson Fists should be good enough for now. A Furioso Redemptor Dreadnought would be a welcome addition to my Blood Angels. All of my unbuilt Venerable Dreadnought kits will become Deathwatch, since it sounds like Deathwatch are not getting Primaris Marines, so they will fit better there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MaxT wrote:
Well I think it was obvious that Primaris marines are going to be one of the first codexes released, ofc the new toys will be supported with a new book. But that doesn't make them their own faction - faction keywords are what matter in 8th, not which book the rules are in. And we've already seen that they do not have their own faction keyword.

They do have their own normal keyword tho so there is scope for primaris only chapter traits in a future codex - "this chapter may only select units with the Primaris keyword" and it fits fluff wise for a chapter from the new founding.

They are probably going to be in the Space Marines Codex. It won't just be Primaris Marines.

 insaniak wrote:
That new dreadnought is dead sexy...

I see what you did there.

MaxT wrote:
Well I think it was obvious that Primaris marines are going to be one of the first codexes released, ofc the new toys will be supported with a new book. But that doesn't make them their own faction - faction keywords are what matter in 8th, not which book the rules are in. And we've already seen that they do not have their own faction keyword.

They do have their own normal keyword tho so there is scope for primaris only chapter traits in a future codex - "this chapter may only select units with the Primaris keyword" and it fits fluff wise for a chapter from the new founding.

They are Faction "<Chapter>" which presumably means there is going to be a list of sub-factions that count as that, and you have to choose one.

All GW would have to do is make a new <Chapter> Faction that doesn't have any regular marines as options. Then you would have to take Primaris Marines / whatever vehicles / other units were in it. It really is as simple as that.

I personally am not sure I think it'll happen, but it is definitely something they COULD do.

Apologies if this has been posted, but a user on B&C said thisabout 'And They Shall Know No Fear' (from WarhammerFest):

And they shall know no fear is a reroll of battleshock. Robin confirmed today.

This seems pretty elegant IMO and not too OP. Looking forward to an over-cocky Primaris opponent rerolling 1 or 2 casualties and ending up with more.

This ability will be pretty powerful for objective holding though, now that it's all about who has the most models within 3". It could make or break a game.

Rubenite wrote:
Apologies if this has been posted, but a user on B&C said thisabout 'And They Shall Know No Fear' (from WarhammerFest):

And they shall know no fear is a reroll of battleshock. Robin confirmed today.

This seems pretty elegant IMO and not too OP. Looking forward to an over-cocky Primaris opponent rerolling 1 or 2 casualties and ending up with more.

This ability will be pretty powerful for objective holding though, now that it's all about who has the most models within 3". It could make or break a game.

I feel like this is actually perfect. A real risk-reward system for Marines and preventing them from just outright ignoring the Battleshock system.

I haven't found an answer to this question, but maybe I've missed it in one of those 387 pages :

are Assault Bolters some rifles or pistols ?

They're assault weapons, so not pistols.

It's like a SMG that uses HB ammo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I want to point out that since Bolters use rocket propelled ammo....you know, like the gyrojet....there shouldn't be any recoil....

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Also I want to point out that since Bolters use rocket propelled ammo....you know, like the gyrojet....there shouldn't be any recoil....

No recoil is a pipedream, a gyrojet has very little recoil, but recoil nonetheless.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Also I want to point out that since Bolters use rocket propelled ammo....you know, like the gyrojet....there shouldn't be any recoil....

If that were true Bolters simply wouldn't work as they would lack any significant initial velocity. But as Bolters are actually functional weapons, that means that the ammo has a very high acceleration inside the weapon, which means there will be recoil.

Really disappointed about The individual point cost for upgrades.. I really thought we were going to move to age of sigmar type of whole units with different abilities.

Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Really disappointed about The individual point cost for upgrades.. I really thought we were going to move to age of sigmar type of whole units with different abilities.

If that's what you want, then just use the power levels. That's exactly what you describe.

They're assault weapons, so not pistols.

It's like a SMG that uses HB ammo.

Hmm, what I thought too, but I was a bit puzzled by the decription of it : "a handheld PISTOL version of the conventional Heavy Bolter"...

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Noticed that as well. The plague marines are outnumbered and the pox walkers don't really contribute due to their slow movement and lack of shooting. The flying units match up fairly decently, but unless the sorcerer is really strong and the standard bearer can improve the pox walkers movement, it should be easy for a primaris player with a basic grasp of target priority to use their superior range and firepower to win.

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Death guard have a sorcerer and a terminator chaos lord. The pramaris have nobway to deny the witch. The Death gaurd also have a +2 save melee beast charater. If he makes contact they don't really have much in the way of melee to defend themselves. These two guys probably carries the death guard force.

 Crimson wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Really disappointed about The individual point cost for upgrades.. I really thought we were going to move to age of sigmar type of whole units with different abilities.

If that's what you want, then just use the power levels. That's exactly what you describe.

Or play Age of Sigmar

 BoomWolf wrote:
A better picture of the new dread:




Anyone still going to argue Numarines are not using tau tech with the obvius Ghostkeel-based adaptation in this dude? the main gun is practically a Cyclic Ion Raker.

Ghostkeel?...

More Like...



At least Ed209 looks Good, that Primaris Dread?, looks stupid as hell, darn, they managed to make an uglier Dread then the old one...

 slogael wrote:

They're assault weapons, so not pistols.

It's like a SMG that uses HB ammo.

Hmm, what I thought too, but I was a bit puzzled by the decription of it : "a handheld PISTOL version of the conventional Heavy Bolter"...

It is a handgun, and the term handgun can be interchangeable with pistol.

Tyran wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Also I want to point out that since Bolters use rocket propelled ammo....you know, like the gyrojet....there shouldn't be any recoil....

If that were true Bolters simply wouldn't work as they would lack any significant initial velocity. But as Bolters are actually functional weapons, that means that the ammo has a very high acceleration inside the weapon, which means there will be recoil.

Gyrojets have velocity to leave the barrel, problem is they have horrible accuracy. They're a real thing. Go google it, they,re kinda neat.

What you're suggesting is the bolt is a two stage weapon. Stage one is a charge to launch the round and ignite a primer in the round which accelerates and likely arms the explosive core of the bolt.....which would decrease the accuracy of the bolt.

And it,s not like you need a massive amount of force to kick a bolt out of the barrel, or even starting it down the barrel and igniting the rocket in one go. There really isn't a reason for the weapon to kick when using rocket propelled rounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 slogael wrote:

They're assault weapons, so not pistols.

It's like a SMG that uses HB ammo.

Hmm, what I thought too, but I was a bit puzzled by the decription of it : "a handheld PISTOL version of the conventional Heavy Bolter"...

These people can't even get basic weapon physics right and you want them to be accurate in terminology?

 Lockark wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Hmm, think I can live without any Primaris marines, they really do make regulars look a bit derpy.

So... anyone able to confirm/ask what if any FW lists are making it into those IA books? Ex:
Eldar Corsairs
Tyrant's Legion
IG/AM tank company
Ork dread mob(or something like that?)
the variations on krieg/renegade/elysian lists?
SM siege army (or w/e it's called)
...maybe I'm missing some?

With the 3-6 Heavy support Spearhead detachment, I'm not sure if tank company needs to exist anymore? You just only get 1 CP per detachment is the downside. Maby the same with the Dread Mod and SM siege army?

I don't remember if IG have a tank commander option in their native rules, but Marines certainly had different options in their siege list beyond different ratios and I'm pretty sure the dread mob did, too.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Hmm, think I can live without any Primaris marines, they really do make regulars look a bit derpy.

So... anyone able to confirm/ask what if any FW lists are making it into those IA books? Ex:
Eldar Corsairs
Tyrant's Legion
IG/AM tank company
Ork dread mob(or something like that?)
the variations on krieg/renegade/elysian lists?
SM siege army (or w/e it's called)
...maybe I'm missing some?

With the 3-6 Heavy support Spearhead detachment, I'm not sure if tank company needs to exist anymore? You just only get 1 CP per detachment is the downside. Maby the same with the Dread Mod and SM siege army?

I don't remember if IG have a tank commander option in their native rules, but Marines certainly had different options in their siege list beyond different ratios and I'm pretty sure the dread mob did, too.

Guard have a Tank Character named Pask and a generic Russ HQ choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
A better picture of the new dread:

Spoiler:

Anyone still going to argue Numarines are not using tau tech with the obvius Ghostkeel-based adaptation in this dude? the main gun is practically a Cyclic Ion Raker.

Ghostkeel?...

More Like...

Spoiler:

At least Ed209 looks Good, that Primaris Dread?, looks stupid as hell, darn, they managed to make an uglier Dread then the old one...

I disagree. It looks like a boxier version of the Contemptor, and is fine in my book as long as no child can hack them to be "as loyal as a puppy".

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

To be honest, I agree. I assumed the death guards will have two wounds, so before I tought it could be balanced. Maybe the "Disgusting resilient" everything has can do the trick? And the Chaos Lord, that is a complete beast in meele, with help of the sorcerer. But as every starter I expect an advantage to the Space Marine side.

 Galas wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

To be honest, I agree. I assumed the death guards will have two wounds, so before I tought it could be balanced. Maybe the "Disgusting resilient" everything has can do the trick? And the Chaos Lord, that is a complete beast in meele, with help of the sorcerer. But as every starter I expect an advantage to the Space Marine side.

T5 and DR might balance them out a bit.

 Galas wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

To be honest, I agree. I assumed the death guards will have two wounds, so before I tought it could be balanced. Maybe the "Disgusting resilient" everything has can do the trick? And the Chaos Lord, that is a complete beast in meele, with help of the sorcerer. But as every starter I expect an advantage to the Space Marine side.

Assumed wrong, Plague Marines are 1 wound.
Profiles up on community website on Warhammer fest live blog

Edit: oh misread your post.
I assumed they would have as well.

If there's anyone here who played the demo game they had today, would you be able to confirm what "And they Shall Know No Fear" and "Death to the False Emperor" do?