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 Latro_ wrote:
Yea but its more more less the same pts cost
can move 10" and now fire 4 lascannon shots, 6 heavy bolter shots at different targets and full bs.

Didn't make comment regarding efficiency. Just noted that we finally got answer to if assault transports still exists. People were wondering if it might be disembark after move or something. Seems no. Only exception left might be open topped but frankly doubt it now.

 Latro_ wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Oblits are not bad at all.
The average result you'll be getting is S9.5, AP-2 and 2 damage per shot, who is rather strong.

I probably won't touch them-as I am classic TS and we don't like mutations and stuff, but in terms of raw power, they seem legit.

6+d3 is 7-9 with average of 8, not 9.5. No S12 oblit guns sorry


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Latro_ wrote:
land raiders thou! oh lawd i'm happy.

Seems assault transport rule got purged. Wiped. No more. There came answer for that question.

Yea but its more more less the same pts cost
can move 10" and now fire 4 lascannon shots, 6 heavy bolter shots at different targets and full bs.

'

Unless you have to pay separately for the weapons...

Lord Kragan wrote:
So just going by models, the chaos side of thing's got 688points. Vs the 940pts of the Primaris fully decked out. It's not bad to be honest, some 252pts. It's the difference you got from DV with FULL kit on both sides. Once we know their gear the difference will shrink notably.

252 difference before wargear?

Well, lets see.
Poxwalkers-no warger there.
Bloat drone-go figure.
Plague marines-I can spot a power fist, plauge knife and a plasma rifle. there is probably a plague blaster I'm missing.
Lord-axe of contagion, seems like a really badass weapon that will cost a hell lot on its own. (+2S, -3AP 3 damage. that's crazy.)
Blightbringer-plasma pistol
Plague caster-who knows.


So, 2 wildcard models, another with a REALLY expensive weapons, some random weapons and possibly a few things I missed.
Yea, around 250 points in gear is plausible.

Oh, so doing that with points isn't just a starter set thing.

Wow, that's insanely more awkward to work with than the previous way points costs were laid out.

I find it kinda odd that Mortarion and the rest of the Death Guard units aren't in that leaked points list.

That means we are going to need an addendum straight away.

 dan2026 wrote:
I find it kinda odd that Mortarion and the rest of the Death Guard units aren't in that leaked points list.

That means we are going to need an addendum straight away.

Unless they're one of the first 'codexes' out

 deathstalker013 wrote:
Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.

Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?

changemod wrote:
Oh, so doing that with points isn't just a starter set thing.

Wow, that's insanely more awkward to work with than the previous way points costs were laid out.

Yeah bit odds. And makes it less likely weapons price reflects WHO wields it which it should if they want balance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 deathstalker013 wrote:
Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.

Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?

'cause sword is IN ADDITION.

You attack with claw and with 2-6 sword attacks unless you roll 1.

 Latro_ wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
I find it kinda odd that Mortarion and the rest of the Death Guard units aren't in that leaked points list.

That means we are going to need an addendum straight away.

Unless they're one of the first 'codexes' out

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

Just as Stormcasts and Bloodbound were the first two Battletomes out for AoS...

Can anyone guess the first two for 8th ed 40k?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 deathstalker013 wrote:
Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.

Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?

well its a trade off as the sword might give you 12 attacks and you can pick
so you do 5 with the fist
take a punt on one with the sword and you might get 2-6 more attacks with the sword for a total of 7 with it

so two viable options use the sword once or jsut do all 6 with the first is the 1 in 6 chance is too risky or you need the s8

Nice. Way to nerf one of the better chaos units. Now instead of massively versatile unit you get a bunch of random rolls. You know, because having even more random is that one thing everybody have been asking for.
No melee weapons too. Something that is able to lterally create shooting weaponry out of it's own body on the fly and is unable to make some sort of an axe or a maul or anything at all? Yeah, that makes sense.

I don't think that''s too random. in any case you'll get very good weapon. It's just matter of very good vs. very very good.

Those Oblits are depressingly bad. Worst unit so far by an enormous margin.

 Latro_ wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 deathstalker013 wrote:
Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.

Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?

well its a trade off as the sword might give you 12 attacks

I get all that, fluff wise I have just never liked the idea of a warrior who has been at war for over 10000 years and become the warmaster of chaos can't control his own sword. He has the favour of all the chaos gods, has he never said can you give me a better sword or tell this one to behave. Personally I would have got rid of it by now.

I would not expect Drachn'yen to remain so weedy for long. I expect that once the Black Legion book is out it will become an "Artefact of Vengeance" or something like that, with proper "mess you up hardcore" rules in a separate section.

Lord of Skulls only 465 points now... Do we know what the standard sized game is for 8th?

1500, 2000?

 deathstalker013 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 deathstalker013 wrote:
Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.

Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?

well its a trade off as the sword might give you 12 attacks

I get all that, fluff wise I have just never liked the idea of a warrior who has been at war for over 10000 years and become the warmaster of chaos can't control his own sword. He has the favour of all the chaos gods, has he never said can you give me a better sword or tell this one to behave. Personally I would have got rid of it by now.

well you also have cmd points, i'll re-roll that one... kinda thing you are gonna use as your goto for cmd points.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 deathstalker013 wrote:
Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.

Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?

More attacks?

Also Abby isn't bad at all, he is exactly like how he was, CSM units in 12" ignores Morale, BL units in 6 reroll ALL failed to hit rolls( shooting AND CC), He reduce damages he takes by 50%, his darn Tanky if you ask me, even the most killy weapon that makes 6 dmg or D6 damage can only inflict him 3 at best.

ANd compared to before Termi armor units are marginaly better since they can DS AND ASSAULT in the same turn!

Yeah the fact that he still has the Weapon trying to rebel when for a time he din't have to( but that lasted only for an edition) is kinda meh, but you can use your reroll stratagem if you like at this moment!

Wow, Abbaddon is disappointing.

The Lord of Contagion is as good if not better, with higher survivability, for 114 pts less (possibly without weapons though)

For the head honcho, Abby should be significantly better than some Joe-schmo warband leader. I get he's faster with (maybe) a better weapon, but still...

Yes, I get he has command buffs, maybe I'm being too picky wanting a 10,000 year veteran leader of the entire Chaos Astartes to be a bit more OTT.

Hmmm... Abaddon move 6". Makes me wonder if Mark of Slaanesh is +1" movement. Since he's got the +1T from Nurgle, +1 invulnerable from Tzeentch, and presumable +1 Attack from Khorne.

Abbadon gets 6 s8 attacks, then another 2-6 S5 attacks 85% of the time. He rerolls all misses (because he's in range of himself),
Gains an extra attack every time he rolls a 6 to hit, takes half damage from attacks (effectively meaning he has 14 wounds), and has the keywords of all the chaos gods (which will undoubtedly allow for further buffs).

He is lethal.

 Gordy2000 wrote:
Wow, Abbaddon is disappointing.

The Lord of Contagion is as good if not better, with higher survivability, for 114 pts less (possibly without weapons though)

For the head honcho, Abby should be significantly better than some Joe-schmo warband leader. I get he's faster with (maybe) a better weapon, but still...

Yes, I get he has command buffs, maybe I'm being too picky wanting a 10,000 year veteran leader of the entire Chaos Astartes to be a bit more OTT.

The axe is not included in LoC cost. and given that a MC power sword (no S bonus, AP-3 and 2 damage) costs 17-wonna guess how much the axe gonna cost? I'd wager over 25.

Also, LoC does not take half damage, has one less wound, is MUCH slower in both movement and advancement (the slowest thing we saw so far, in fact cripplingly so.), got less attacks, etc...
Had they cost even remotely the same, I'd take abbadon without eventhinking.
4" move rate with re-roll-take-lower advancement means you are not getting anywhere. you DS, charge and hope for a 9 or more, and if you didn't get the charge off, you are never getting it.

Do you think he does get the BL re-roll? I hadn't considered that.

About the Marks buffs, I assumed they were already in his profile.

Perhaps I've just rolled too many 1s with his sword in the past to be too excited as that damn rule is still in there

I like the Heldrake being a real dragon now and getting to tear things up in melee.

Bodes less well for the more plane-like flyers I guess... From a simulationist perspective. If a night scythe starts on the table and has a high move value I'll be thrilled: Annihilation barge that doubles as a high capacity transport.

 Gordy2000 wrote:
Do you think he does get the BL re-roll? I hadn't considered that.

About the Marks buffs, I assumed they were already in his profile.

Perhaps I've just rolled too many 1s with his sword in the past to be too excited as that damn rule is still in there

He's a Black Legion model in range of himself. I can't see why not.

I was referring to any bubble effect buffs from other characters. He will be affected by any god-specific buff. No idea yet what these might be like, or even if they will be common, but it's useful just in case.

Don't forget, you can use a command point to reroll the daemon weapon now

 Sersi wrote:
Hmmm... Abaddon move 6". Makes me wonder if Mark of Slaanesh is +1" movement. Since he's got the +1T from Nurgle, +1 invulnerable from Tzeentch, and presumable +1 Attack from Khorne.

Nice spot there.

I just wish we could see the effects of Marks - and do they apply to vehicles as well? Especially since vehicles now have attacks of their own in assault etc. That'd be nice. Real nice. It'd make God-specific vehicles a bit more thematic as well. Tougher Nurgle Land Raiders, faster moving Slaaneshi Rhinos, more Murderous Khornate Daemon engines....mmmmh.

God those pictures are such a god damn tease.

I feel like Abaddon isn't beating the Swarmlord, based on the information we have on the latter so far.

Chaos Land Raiders have the <Mark of Chaos> Keyword.

 Robin5t wrote:
I feel like Abaddon isn't beating the Swarmlord, based on the information we have on the latter so far.

Should he though?

1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?

Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.

2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?

Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?