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Anyone else notice that Primaris Marines have wildly different points costs between their Index in the starter set and the SM index?

 Luciferian wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
No, they can choose from the Space marine melee weapon list on page 11.

Damn, you're right. Now I can't even give him the Mace of Absolution he had before

But apparently I can give him a Dreadnought CC Weapon or Siege Drill? I don't see anything that states otherwise, there's even an entry for Dreadnought CC Weapon taken on models other than Dreadnoughts.

 fwlr wrote:
World eaters better get a codex, and angron

I'm hoping them and the Emperor's Children get one as well, would be nice to see a 'Chaos Undivided' army with all special Legion units

 Mr_Rose wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
120p for 3 Zoanthropes add 24p and you get a Hive tyrant with rending claws. Which can also cast smite. So why would i take Zoanthropes? Am i missing something here?

3 Zoantropes = 3 Warp Blast boosted Smites.
Even if the Tyrant had Warp Blast, it still can't cast Smite more than once a turn.

No. The wording is "A unit of Zoanthropes can attempt to manifest one psychic power in each friendly Psychic phase..."

http://i.imgur.com/t4XmMFS.jpg

I think peeps might be missing a trick with the synergy you can now do with daemons mixing in units as you like... shame if daemons are not your bag but i'm re-building all my chaos lists with daemon stuff in mind.

another thing i'm hitting on quick is pts
8 flesh hounds and a land raider is over 500pts... quater of your army even at 2k

i'm warming to 2.5 - 3k being the new norm

 amanita wrote:
Which link gives a summation of terrain and its effects? I've seen some comments about how cover works but nothing really about difficult terrain or the lack thereof.

fairly basic, some things to watchout for though

2k is the Norm per GW for Matched play. By all means do what you want otherwise, but that's their established norm.

 Latro_ wrote:
I think peeps might be missing a trick with the synergy you can now do with daemons mixing in units as you like... shame if daemons are not your bag but i'm re-building all my chaos lists with daemon stuff in mind.

another thing i'm hitting on quick is pts
8 flesh hounds and a land raider is over 500pts... quater of your army even at 2k

i'm warming to 2.5 - 3k being the new norm

Dunno about 3k

i think it will depend on just how smoothly the game runs and or how fast things die using cover and assault.

I'm so disappointed in how the HQ's work out, especially the Eldar ones. Everyone hit's on a 2+. Everyone. How is it possible to represent skill when a Haemonculi hit's on 2's as equally as Lileth?

In fact a Haemonculi is actually better than a Succubus in combat. More attacks, a better weapon (Can take electrocorrosive whip) 5+ invul at all times, mortal wound psyker bomb. That just isn't right.

 Desubot wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
I think peeps might be missing a trick with the synergy you can now do with daemons mixing in units as you like... shame if daemons are not your bag but i'm re-building all my chaos lists with daemon stuff in mind.

another thing i'm hitting on quick is pts
8 flesh hounds and a land raider is over 500pts... quater of your army even at 2k

i'm warming to 2.5 - 3k being the new norm

Dunno about 3k

i think it will depend on just how smoothly the game runs and or how fast things die using cover and assault.

yea actually just did a direct points swap of my 1850pt iron warriors army with 2 knights and its come to 2070pts

Tyran wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
120p for 3 Zoanthropes add 24p and you get a Hive tyrant with rending claws. Which can also cast smite. So why would i take Zoanthropes? Am i missing something here?

9 wounds with a 3++

It takes 36 Boltgun hits to kill 3 Zoanthropes. But it takes 90 Boltgun hits to kill a Hive Tyrant

It takes 10.8 Lascannon hits to kill 3 Zoanthropes. But it takes 6.4 Lascannon hits to kill a Hive Tyrant

And the hive tyrant could cast Catalyst on it self.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hate to be the whiney CSM player, but after reading through everything, we really got shafted. So far we are the only faction that has to wait for a better book to gain back most of our armies. All marked units do nothing? Half my Death Guard is unusable? And I'm still gonna have to get a DG supplement, and then a CSM supplement, and then a Legions supplement just to play my army?

And i was pretty close to having them all painted up for the new edition. On the other hand, my White Scars and Orks got much better from what I can tell.

Other than the obligatory TAKE IT TO A NEW THREAD AND STOP CLUTTERING UP NEWS AND RUMORS ABOUT DEATH GUARD COMPLAINTS that I want to post after slogging through so many posts about it that I might as well be an honorary Death Guard for it....

Death Guard ARE coming. You are the sole bad guys of an entire campaign. This means new models, new units, and DAEMON PRIMARCH MORTY IN PLASTIC. You're hardly shafted just because the STOP GAP Index book took away some toys so that they can give you something else instead later.

Considering that Nurgle is one of the factions that GW has yet to screw up pretty much ever, you can bet that you'll be rocking hard once things drop for you.

In the mean time you can mix Death Guard and Chaos Marines with MoN just like you did before (Nurgle, Chaos, and Heretic Astartes shared keywords for allying), and get some games in. Don't chuck everything out of the pram just because you can't be 100% Death Guard Legion at launch. Things are changing and this is just a small portion of it.

 Latro_ wrote:

 amanita wrote:
Which link gives a summation of terrain and its effects? I've seen some comments about how cover works but nothing really about difficult terrain or the lack thereof.

fairly basic, some things to watchout for though

Thank you very much, Latro!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I'm so disappointed in how the HQ's work out, especially the Eldar ones. Everyone hit's on a 2+. Everyone. How is it possible to represent skill when a Haemonculi hit's on 2's as equally as Lileth?

In fact a Haemonculi is actually better than a Succubus in combat. More attacks, a better weapon (Can take electrocorrosive whip) 5+ invul at all times, mortal wound psyker bomb. That just isn't right.

Welcome to the Dark Imperium!

Seriously though, the skill of the fighter makes it easier to hit their opponent, rather than harder for their opponent to hit them. Rules such as the Wyches' Invul Save in melee represent skill preventing damage.

This new system works fine while it also streamlines the game appropriately. I fully expect that once GW gets more feedback things will change. Maybe in the yearly update, or in the appropriate codex. Which ever drops first.

Remember, this is only the foundation of the game going forward. We still have to build the walls with codexes for the game to truly start taking shape as CT and LT start to come into play and other subfaction rules start to change the shape of army lists.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I'm so disappointed in how the HQ's work out, especially the Eldar ones. Everyone hit's on a 2+. Everyone. How is it possible to represent skill when a Haemonculi hit's on 2's as equally as Lileth?

In fact a Haemonculi is actually better than a Succubus in combat. More attacks, a better weapon (Can take electrocorrosive whip) 5+ invul at all times, mortal wound psyker bomb. That just isn't right.

Orks have a unit that has +2 BS AND +2 WS. And it only costs 10 points!

Cower before the peerless skill of the mighty...Bomb Squig!

 JohnU wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I'm so disappointed in how the HQ's work out, especially the Eldar ones. Everyone hit's on a 2+. Everyone. How is it possible to represent skill when a Haemonculi hit's on 2's as equally as Lileth?

In fact a Haemonculi is actually better than a Succubus in combat. More attacks, a better weapon (Can take electrocorrosive whip) 5+ invul at all times, mortal wound psyker bomb. That just isn't right.

Orks have a unit that has +2 BS AND +2 WS. And it only costs 10 points!

Cower before the peerless skill of the mighty...Bomb Squig!

To be fair, it IS a Squig. You just don't want to tangle with one of those.

I was a little saddened to see the Bomb Squig didn't have an option to blow up a target in melee. THAT would have been fun!

Bloodmaster wrote:

You cry over what feels like a thousand pages, but maybe you could remember that DG is getting one if not THE first codex of this edition, which might change the whole thing up again?! WE know for certain, that DG Termis are coming. There will be a box for regular Plague Marines, probably with a tone of weapons to chose from, probably allowing havoc-like loadout. So please, keep your calm and wait a month or two

They could have showed us Mortarion or the Redemptor Dreadnought - they chose the Redemptor dreadnought. That indicates to me that Codex: Primaris is likely to be the first out the door.

We don't know Death Guard Terminators are coming. We know a TYPE of Death Guard Terminator is coming. It could very well end up like the Scarab Occult where the unit has a fixed loadout and only allows to exchange for Heavy Weapons - meanwhile I have 3 squads with varying armaments that would all be technically unusable should that be the case - For all of them this is literally their 4th edition of existence.

A box for regular plague marines with weapons. Ok. That is not an indicator of Havocs though, is it? That's just an indicator of a Plague Marine kit.


I find it so very strange that several people are voicing concerns at long term, core units of an army that had been present from 3rd edition onwards are suddenly 'not available' to an army and rather than showing similar concerns people are attacking others for daring to raise them. I have never seen people so god damn complacent. You realise sighing, sitting there and just taking the gak does nothing to fix it, right? You want them to change something - you raise your voice. Like, what happened guys? Ya'll decide to just give up?

CSM players are annoyed across the board - because we have no identity once more. GW stated that there would still be Chapter Tactics/Legion Traits and outside of specific special characters there doesn't seem to be anything of the sort. For Imperials - not an issue. You still have DA, BA, SM and their variant characters, GK, LotD, SW and DW. But CSM have gone from Legions back to bland. After only 6 months of Traitor Legions. After 6 months of something we have literally been pressing for - for 3 god damned editions. Does it feel like salt in a wound? You bet your ass it does.

For me personally? It's the fact it makes zero sense. As someone else already said - I'd rather they give me X and Y til a book came out and then said X and Y are no longer permitted, buy the new shiny. Because I would at least have a few months of X and Y to get some semblance of how the army meshes. Plus, you know 'stop gap' rules. Meant to suffice til release. They're currently not even doing that.

And people are making the strangest comparison.

LEt's put this in perspective - Death Guard have lost TWO units that have been present for their entire existence for no reason. With no indication of timescale til we get replacements or equivalents.

That is not the equivalent of Salamanders losing buffed flamers. Because you still have flamers. They still function as flamers.

That is not the equivalent of Ravenwing 'losing the ability to take Swiftclaw bikers' - because you never fething did that.

That is not the equivalent of Space Wolves losing the Great company formation rules - because you had those formations for all of one edition and you can still take all the components of the formation just fine.

*Those are ALL arguments I have seen raised to counter my concern - like, WTF.

You want equivalents?

It's the equivalent of Salamanders losing Devastators.

It's the equivalent of Ravenwing losing Land Speeders.

It's the equivalent of Space Wolves losing Grey Hunters.

These are all units that have been present in your particular faction or sub-faction since its birth and give it some identity. For Death Guard? Plague Marines and Terminators have -always- been our core. But these false equivalents people keep giving...utter tripe.

And as has already been stressed - the concern is that these missing units are an indicator of them being gone for good. It makes very little sense for a temporary stop gap list to remove them altogether - because at that point...what's the point of the stop gap list?

All talk of specific armies needs to be taken to a new thread in 40k General Discussions. Most factions have threads there already. This thread is big enough without adding clutter. Further posts will result in warnings.

 alextroy wrote:

You guys really need to read all the rules for the Inquisition Army List. Power Sword is on the Melee Weapon List and Combi-Weapons (not Grav) are on the Ranged Weapon List.

Yes they are. And both require that you swap your chainsword for them, thus you can't have both of them at once.

 Lorek wrote:
All talk of specific armies needs to be taken to a new thread in 40k General Discussions. Most factions have threads there already. This thread is big enough without adding clutter. Further posts will result in warnings.

PRAISE BE!

 Crimson wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

You guys really need to read all the rules for the Inquisition Army List. Power Sword is on the Melee Weapon List and Combi-Weapons (not Grav) are on the Ranged Weapon List.

Yes they are. And both require that you swap your chainsword for them, thus you can't have both of them at once.

Sisters have a similar problem. You can have combi weapons or power weapons but not both as you swap for the Bolter to get them. Pistols can only be traded for pistols.

Good thing the only Superior model that GW currently sells only has a Bolter and Icon, right?

The large increases in points for most vehicles do not please me. I think they are necessary, given the huge increase in effectiveness they got, but I'd rather have roughly their old level of power and be able to take more. I like the base troops to be stronger relative to the big stuff. Sure, you can take hordes and hordes of little guys, but that gets old for me, and I'd rather paint three tanks and 20 dudes than one tank and 100 dudes.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

You guys really need to read all the rules for the Inquisition Army List. Power Sword is on the Melee Weapon List and Combi-Weapons (not Grav) are on the Ranged Weapon List.

Yes they are. And both require that you swap your chainsword for them, thus you can't have both of them at once.

Sisters have a similar problem. You can have combi weapons or power weapons but not both as you swap for the Bolter to get them. Pistols can only be traded for pistols.

Good thing the only Superior model that GW currently sells only has a Bolter and Icon, right?

Actually, this seems to be common behaviour across the board.

CSM and SM also have strange swap behaviours. Apparently combi-weapons replace both bolter and bolt pistol and only can be taken alone.

However, I am noticing that squad special/heavy weapon behaviour is funky too. CSM can take 2 heavy weapons if 10 strong (It's either/or for Special/Heavy).

Seems like no one gets to Combi-weapon/Power weapon though.

Any word if any new background came along with these new index books? Anything beyond the leaked Baal piece?

Nvs wrote:
Any word if any new background came along with these new index books? Anything beyond the leaked Baal piece?

I've seen all crunch, no fluff. Except for the blurbs in each section's introduction.

Seriously though, the skill of the fighter makes it easier to hit their opponent, rather than harder for their opponent to hit them. Rules such as the Wyches' Invul Save in melee represent skill preventing damage.

How is this even true? A Fighters skill should hugely impact how hard it is to get hit by their opponent! A Phoenix lord should never be hit by a Haemonculi on a 2+! Not every model can have a dodge special rule, but as is models just sit there one by one smacking each other without defensive manoeuvres until someone dies. No interaction between the models apart from armour saves. It takes so much away from the game when every Tom, Dick and Harry in the HQ section is equally as skilled as each other and the only difference is the weapon they wield and how many attacks they get.

Looking at the "87 points + 11 for a gun" type stuff - do you think they used a mathematical formula to come up with the point values? That would be interesting, though I prefer easier to add up values.

 SickSix wrote:


I CALLED IT! DEFILERS ARE BACK BABY!

Pssh. Everything is coming back!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nactor wrote:
So the Avatar of Tzeentch can't cast Tzeentch spells ? Yeeah right. Way to go GW ... here is hoping for some change to that with an faction-battletome-of-40k-1ksons, but who am i kidding.
Gonna check with my meta about that saturday, as i am not going to play tournaments anyway.
I aim at something like pick tzeentch / heretic without roll, if mixed must roll which one. Why they did not do that for Magnus is beyond me.

Magnus is not the avatar of Tzeentch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hate to be the whiney CSM player, but after reading through everything, we really got shafted. So far we are the only faction that has to wait for a better book to gain back most of our armies. All marked units do nothing? Half my Death Guard is unusable? And I'm still gonna have to get a DG supplement, and then a CSM supplement, and then a Legions supplement just to play my army?

And i was pretty close to having them all painted up for the new edition. On the other hand, my White Scars and Orks got much better from what I can tell.

I'm pretty sure there will be no "CSM". We'll have Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, and Black Legion. Once you get the DG book you're done.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

You guys really need to read all the rules for the Inquisition Army List. Power Sword is on the Melee Weapon List and Combi-Weapons (not Grav) are on the Ranged Weapon List.

Yes they are. And both require that you swap your chainsword for them, thus you can't have both of them at once.

Sisters have a similar problem. You can have combi weapons or power weapons but not both as you swap for the Bolter to get them. Pistols can only be traded for pistols.

Good thing the only Superior model that GW currently sells only has a Bolter and Icon, right?

Actually, this seems to be common behaviour across the board.

CSM and SM also have strange swap behaviours. Apparently combi-weapons replace both bolter and bolt pistol and only can be taken alone.

However, I am noticing that squad special/heavy weapon behaviour is funky too. CSM can take 2 heavy weapons if 10 strong (It's either/or for Special/Heavy).

Seems like no one gets to Combi-weapon/Power weapon though.

Considering most kits spoort such a build it looks like they want us to choose is a model is going ranged or melee as it,s focus, not mixing both.

8th ed live stream

Nvs wrote:
Any word if any new background came along with these new index books? Anything beyond the leaked Baal piece?

there's only a page or two for each faction, but some of them do advance the narrative a bit and hint at further developments