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 Chris521 wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Thats why you nightshroud it for -1 to hit, and you can use Tech Priest to heal D3 every turn. Tank orders can give reroll 1's. Also can use strike and Shroud order if the Nightshroud fails.

Tank orders don't work on Baneblades.

Good to know, but it appears the -1 to hit and healing work.

I was looking at trying this as a list, based on my research this would be fairly competitive. Want to figure out my list before I start buying everythign.

-1 to hit isn#t quaranteed and if you go 2nd no help. With that many drops opponent likely gets bonus for first turn.

It's good tank but remember it can be taken out.

And now knight armies can field castellan with 3++ vs volcano cannon and which basically half shots shadowsword with volcano with plasma some more. It's not hopeless especially if you go first but don't count for it for all at firepower

So how bad is the Sabre Defense Platform with a search light? It only gives 1 unit vs 1 enemy unit +1 to hit (might be helpful for above mentioned shadowsword) but still...a loaded up Tank Commander or even a standard LRBT could make serious use of one. CA effectively doubled it's cost though...

 necron99 wrote:
So how bad is the Sabre Defense Platform with a search light? It only gives 1 unit vs 1 enemy unit +1 to hit (might be helpful for above mentioned shadowsword) but still...a loaded up Tank Commander or even a standard LRBT could make serious use of one. CA effectively doubled it's cost though...

I think it got limited to just an infantry unit somewhere. Only handy with vet plasma or the mordian volley fire stratagem

Well that's too bad :( I don't see the model available anymore so I thought I'd try my hand at designing/printing one or two...is it infantry keyword? If so it could help a HWT of lascannons. That would be nasty maybe. Dunno...

tneva82 wrote:
-1 to hit isn#t quaranteed and if you go 2nd no help. With that many drops opponent likely gets bonus for first turn.

It's good tank but remember it can be taken out.

And now knight armies can field castellan with 3++ vs volcano cannon and which basically half shots shadowsword with volcano with plasma some more. It's not hopeless especially if you go first but don't count for it for all at firepower

There is a knight that gets a 3++? That is massively broken.

With strategem and either warlord or relic

w1zard wrote:


There is a knight that gets a 3++? That is massively broken.

It's not broken as it's very CP intensive

You can give a knight a relic that takes their invulnerable save to 4++. That costs 1cp unless he is your warlord.

There's then a stratagem that gives a further +1 to your save for the current phase to make the 3++. That costs 1cp for a "regular" knight or 3cp for the new dominus knights

There's no reliable way to give them an invulnerable save in melee.

 Silentz wrote:

w1zard wrote:


There is a knight that gets a 3++? That is massively broken.

It's not broken as it's very CP intensive

You can give a knight a relic that takes their invulnerable save to 4++. That costs 1cp unless he is your warlord.

There's then a stratagem that gives a further +1 to your save for the current phase to make the 3++. That costs 1cp for a "regular" knight or 3cp for the new dominus knights

There's no reliable way to give them an invulnerable save in melee.

They have something that gives them a +5 in melee, I believe it's a relic but could be a warlord trait. Either way you'll see it taken on some gallants more than likely, as it covers one of the gallants weaknesses pretty well.

As for a +3 invuln, they have to combo warlord and strat for it. If they go ham making one knight a +3 the rest will be stuck at a +5, aside from possibly a knight with a +2 armor save.

The key to beating a +3 invuln knight would be either hitting it in melee, where it has no invuln, or doing an initial shot or two at it to get him to pop the strat then dump the majority of your fire into another target. Or mortal wounds of course, those work too. Knights will struggle with CP until/unless they get Armigers to count for it again, anything you can do to burn CP is a good idea. Especially since it costs a Dominus knight 3cp to rotate it's shields, even if you don't really shoot it much getting the knight to pop the shields will eat up a major portion of his CP. On the other hand, by not shooting that knight the strategem still did it's job, keeping the knight alive, even if that just meant you had to move on to an easier target.

Its also not stackable so if you have 3 knights you can only have one 3++ and two 5++

I've developed an interest in the Lost Relic of Cadia based on the number of people I see running some form of Chaos army in tournaments these days. I mean really, rerolling hits and wounds for a turn with my 4 bassies, two wyverns, tank commander, colossus bombard and host of HWT within 12" of the bearer just seems like an alpha strike made in heaven. What I don't understand is the non-chaos side of the relic. The description says you can rerolls 1s to hit with cadian units. We already do that so where's the upside?

It is hits and wounds. Getting rerolls to wound is unusual for a lot of Guard. It also allows you to move on the turn you use it and retain the rerolls of 1 (situationally useful).

Alpharius Walks wrote:
It is hits and wounds. Getting rerolls to wound is unusual for a lot of Guard. It also allows you to move on the turn you use it and retain the rerolls of 1 (situationally useful).

Yeah I got the re-roll of 1 to wound part just couldn't figure out the re-roll 1's to hit but now that makes sense. Yes, it's situational but not completely without it uses...

Just out of curiosity how popular is this relic? I'm paying 1CP to get it (took Laurels of Command also). My current list starts with 14CP before I pay for the extra relic (two battalions and a spearhead battle forged).

Forgive me, but I am still looking into how the guard functions and planning a build for my next army. Just have 4sq shock troops and 2 cmd sq, pysker, reg advisor, commissar for now. Waiting to take the plunge on the tanks, Super heavies, etc...

Can someone clarify these two orders/doctrines and which is better?

Catachan Regimental Doctrine: vehicles reroll 1 dice that determine number of attacks (can this be turret and non turret weapon, like a sponson weapon)? Is this per vehicle or per weapon?

Does this combo with the Catachan Order reroll # of hits for flamers? I know you can't reroll a reroll, but say on Hellhounds the 2d6 Inferno cannon, can I play one order on 1 die, and the Doctrine on the other, to get both?

Cadian Tank order, Reroll dice when determine # of attacks for the main turret weapon. If its 2d6 can i choose to reroll 1 die (say i get a 6,1) or must it be both dice?

Does the Cadain reroll 1's if don't move combo with Grinding Advance so long as the i only move 4.99". Can I still shoot 2x?

Concerning Tallarn, and grinding advance. Can I use that to move 4.99" and then move 6" prior to my shooting as it says it ignores this movement for purposes of grinding advance, and still shoot 2x?

Can I apply any of these on Super Heavies like Baneblades and all the Super Heavies. I assume so since they have the REGIMENT Keyword, but I recall hearing that super heavies don't get order benefits or something like that.

Sorry for all the questions, its just difficult sorting out how all the doctrines, orders, etc... interact.

Thanks in advance!

I imagine the Relic is very popular because if you have a sizable Cadian detachment built around the doctrine and stratagem you should have at least a few units that benefit nicely from its presence.

Note that the catachan order can only affect infantry so no combo there.
The catachan doctrine is per weapon. You may now salivate..
Re: Cadian and Tallarn yes to both.
Unfortunately SH do not gain regiment doctrines unless i think you get them in a supreme command Detachment.

konst80hummel wrote:
Note that the catachan order can only affect infantry so no combo there.
The catachan doctrine is per weapon. You may now salivate..
Re: Cadian and Tallarn yes to both.
Unfortunately SH do not gain regiment doctrines unless i think you get them in a supreme command Detachment.

I found it. Its Super Heavy AUXILLARY Detachments. But if you take a super heavy detachment or a Supreme Command you can get them. Thats dumb. Wonder why they did that. Can they still get orders?

Read the datasheets for the models that can give Tank Orders. They specify the keyword you need to receive a Tank Order. You can then compare that to keywords on the Super heavy tank datasheets.

Alpharius Walks wrote:
Read the datasheets for the models that can give Tank Orders. They specify the keyword you need to receive a Tank Order. You can then compare that to keywords on the Super heavy tank datasheets.

Doh. I read that, then read all the other stuff and forgot that.Sometimes the simplest answer is right in front of you.

So basically, super heavies dont get gak. :(

You can get the regiments on them by putting them in a supreme command. Just take 3 extra commanders/commissars/psykers if you want low cost or take 3 tank commanders if you want overkill

You can still use stratagems on a Lord of War tank in a super heavy auxiliary, you just have to select around that restriction if you do not want to bring a supreme command detachment. As an example a tank in a Tallarn super heavy auxiliary can still use Ambush, which is really what you want out of that regiment anyway.

Ok Awesome, looking at a Supreme Command tallarn, maybe Catachan Superheavy build like this..

Is this combo viable/legal.

Take a Doomhammer, put an Astropath with nightshroud in it, a Company Co with plasma, Platoon Co (cheap) 3x spec weapons sq (3x with plasma). Then you put the Company Co and the 9 plasma guys on the firing deck to shoot. Use nightshroud on the Doomhammer for the -1. Deckout the Doom hammer iwth Lascannon and Heavy Bolter guns. Put in Supreme command with another HQ of your choice, probably tank commander. Take Catachan or Tallarn for flavor (probably Catachan if you take flamers and plan to get in close, or Tallarn if you take HB).

Able to get Doctrines since its part of Supreme Command.
You can give 2 orders per turn from Co Cmd and 1 from Plt Commander covering all 3 spec weapons units inside/on shooting deck shooting Overcharged Plasma most likely Take Aim to avoid the 1's killing you. Just drive around and unload all that Rapid Overcharged Plasma and the Doomhammer isnt taking penatlys for its heavy weapons.

Thats about 650-700ish points, guessing nasty death star.

Please reference the rules on being embarked on a transport in the rulebook or battle primer. While the Firing Deck allows you to shoot out of the vehicle it is does not give you the ability to use psychic powers, issue orders, etc.

I have yet to receive my codex from my buddy and I have a bucket load of mordians...are they any good, most lists I've seen have been catachan or cadain I did see one vahallan once.

Mordians can be fun. Theyve got some unique mechanics, and are certainly worth playing, especially outside of a tournament setting.
Though you might run into some issues getting reinforcements, as they just went OOP... :(

 necron99 wrote:

Alpharius Walks wrote:
It is hits and wounds. Getting rerolls to wound is unusual for a lot of Guard. It also allows you to move on the turn you use it and retain the rerolls of 1 (situationally useful).

Yeah I got the re-roll of 1 to wound part just couldn't figure out the re-roll 1's to hit but now that makes sense. Yes, it's situational but not completely without it uses...

Just out of curiosity how popular is this relic? I'm paying 1CP to get it (took Laurels of Command also). My current list starts with 14CP before I pay for the extra relic (two battalions and a spearhead battle forged).

Well remember you don't need to predecide do you have it or not so take it when it's worth it and don't when it's not

What are the benefits of a Chimera over a Taurox for transporting a melee unit? Taurox is a bit cheaper isn’t it?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What are the benefits of a Chimera over a Taurox for transporting a melee unit? Taurox is a bit cheaper isn’t it?

Taurox is cheaper yes, but it can only transport 10 AM models, the Chimera has a capacity of 12. Furthermore the Taurox is faster but not as tough as the Chimera.

420th wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What are the benefits of a Chimera over a Taurox for transporting a melee unit? Taurox is a bit cheaper isn’t it?

Taurox is cheaper yes, but it can only transport 10 AM models, the Chimera has a capacity of 12. Furthermore the Taurox is faster but not as tough as the Chimera.

So if I wasn’t going to transport over 10 models anyway, it’d be speed versus toughness?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

420th wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What are the benefits of a Chimera over a Taurox for transporting a melee unit? Taurox is a bit cheaper isn’t it?

Taurox is cheaper yes, but it can only transport 10 AM models, the Chimera has a capacity of 12. Furthermore the Taurox is faster but not as tough as the Chimera.

So if I wasn’t going to transport over 10 models anyway, it’d be speed versus toughness?

That and equipment on the transport. Chimeras can be turned into a poor man's hellhounds with 2 heavy flamers, be given track guards so their movement doesn't degrade, and as mentioned can carry 12 models. I feel they work best if you need to go up the center and take hits to get to your destination.

Tauroxes are faster, cheaper, have decent armament for what they are, and are good on a flank. They don't draw a lot of attention, have long range weapons, and are good to move up a flank for a cheeky objective grab or something