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Maybe I missed it, why are you -1 CP? It looks like you got your warlord trait, but no free relic for your AM.

Pask looks like a miss here. His 2nd order is going to go to waste without a regular LR to order around. You could drop one TC to a LR and then you'd have some more points to play with.

Those guardsmen are going to go pretty quickly. Maybe find room for a few more squads or bring some more help, hwt with mortars

Lastly, the warden is not the most competitive choice. That's fine, and actually one of my favorite knights to bring. If you want competitive, bring a castellan or a crusader. If you want to stick with the warden, spend the 2 CP to give it a 4++ and either endless fury or the relic thunderstrike gaunlet. You'll also need a house, raven is the top competitive choice, but there is also hawkshroud, mortan, and taranis that offer good strats

Thx for your Feedback!
Regarding -1 CP: That was spend for the Special Detachment from Vigilus Defiant: Emperor’s Fist Tank Company. This is mainly for Pask because with the movement strata he can move up to 10” and can shot twice with the Gattling.
Regarding Pask: Yeah his second order will be not used but he is too strong, not to use.
Regarding guardsmen: Yeah, thy will die quickly but I hope that the Knight and Pask and the TC’s were enough distraction.
Regarding Knight: I have chosen the Warden because of points reason. In this tournament also only 1 LoW is allowed, so the Household choice only effect the Traits/Relics and the specific strata And I thing I will take Vulker because of the strata that any unmodified to hit of 6 gains 2 hits instead of 1.
Yeah I will spend the to 2Cps for Warlord Trait (Ion Bullwork) and the Relic (Endless Fury).

To get a Crusader in, I had to kick something, should I kick one TC?
But if I do this, then I’m afraid to have to less fire power on the table?

Maxamato... major issues I see -

You have no ranged anti-tank, you're 100% anti-infantry. What do you do against other Knights? If your entire army is in position to shoot an enemy Knight, you can expect to deal ~17 wounds against it. Not enough. I'd swap all the Punisher cannons for Battle cannons.

You also have a serious lack of orders. Part of what makes Guard Infantry so good is the MOVE MOVE MOVE command and First Rank Fire Second Rank Fire command to make them perform way better than a 40pt unit normally would. I'd stick with Cadian or Tallarn so your commanders can issue orders. I'd probably take another Company Commander or two as well.

I'm also not sure if a Warden is the best Knight to compliment your force, and you don't specify what House. If you wanna stick with a Questoris Knight, a Krast Crusader w/ Headman's Mark and Ion Bulward would be a very good choice. Dropping Pask for a Conqueror (since you're full on tank commanders) would pay the difference.

@Maxamato - what's the point of taking the Vigilus detachment? You didn't take any bassies or wyverns to take advantage of the strats. You need to -1 one more CP for either the Vigilus detachment or the Super heavy detachment. Also I assume the 6 squads are there for screening? I just don't see them lasting very long and with an average 24" range on your weapons that require LOS I can see your tanks getting tied up pretty quickly. Pask and a buddy can be awesome but stop there and pickup some non LOS shooters. A company commander, platoon commander and an astropath can work wonders too, I mean I see you have 1 company commander but that;s not enough - all of which can be gotten for 70 some points.


@MrMoustaffa I couldn't agree more about your posting on strats/orders. I feel more and more like we don't carry around a suitcase with a 10-megaton warhead as much as we wear the bat-utility belt. I can't count the number of times I've used move-move-move on two units in order to wrap a flyer that foolishly flew into my midst thinking he'd unload next turn and wipe out all of my T3 dudes only to find out - TRAP! And FRSR on two units of infantry with an astropath nearby just make opponents cry. And now with Vigilus...it's not cheap but for 4CP you can fire your wyvern twice reroll hits and wounds without LOS is bonkers - and take the vigilus relic that let's you ignore cover on your wyverns and bassies...thing of beauty. But I digress. I love IG simply because we have no broken strats and now that CP regen is under control I don't see people playing IG as a 180pt tax.

I also play knights as allies and custodes as allies and I can't imagine playing them at all without their strats - they'd just fall apart or at least be far less useful.

 necron99 wrote:
You need to -1 one more CP for either the Vigilus detachment or the Super heavy detachment.

Why? The superheavy detachment has +0 CP, not -1.

The -1 CP is for the Vigalus tank specialist detachment.

Honestly I'd bin Pask and take another company commander as recommended. If you still want to make use of the 10" move and shoot strat it would still be pretty effective on one of your normal tank commanders and also you'd have a bit of redundancy in the event you lose one of them.

I know there is a temptation to tool up your tank commanders but remember that the can and will be targetted T1 so keeping them cheap is the order of the day. Losing the side sponsons and hunter killer missile as well as replacing pask with a company commander would give you points for a better knight.

If you are tallarn then a few plasma sentinels would up your anti tank capability for cheap. (they don't suffer the minus 1 when moving) At that stage you're on your way to a Brigade rather than a battalion so will have the CP to burn.

Have you considered Yarrick? His reroll 1s to hit would compensate for your loss in accuracy if you get rid of pask.

 Peregrine wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
You need to -1 one more CP for either the Vigilus detachment or the Super heavy detachment.

Why? The superheavy detachment has +0 CP, not -1.

Sorry my bad...I meant a Super heavy aux detachment.

 necron99 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
You need to -1 one more CP for either the Vigilus detachment or the Super heavy detachment.

Why? The superheavy detachment has +0 CP, not -1.

Sorry my bad...I meant a Super heavy aux detachment.

Super heavy aux detachments don't cost -1 Cp only bog standard "aux detachment".

CaptainO wrote:

 necron99 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
You need to -1 one more CP for either the Vigilus detachment or the Super heavy detachment.

Why? The superheavy detachment has +0 CP, not -1.

Sorry my bad...I meant a Super heavy aux detachment.

Super heavy aux detachments don't cost -1 Cp only bog standard "aux detachment".

Ah good to know - guess I can start adding that CP back in

I mean, you could technically think of it as -5 or -12 CP if you consider the opportunity cost (assuming a detachment limit is in place).

I can confirm that the FRFSRF combined with the Mordian exploding 6s is quality. Especially if your opponent leaves a character exposed.

I do miss the catachans reroll number of shots perk when it comes to basilisks though.

I'm currently running a Mordian Brigade, Bobby super heavy auxiliary detachment, a castellan super heavy auxiliary detachment and a Vidicare assassin (which can obviously be changed depending on the oppossition) The soupiest of soup but AM are still my largest detachment.

The reroll 1s from bobby g really helps the Vindicare and mean I don't have to stick with house Raven for the Castellan. I'm torn between House Krast for its awesome relic and House Mortan for its anti flyer strat. The reroll 1s 12" bubble means I was didn't have to take either harker or Yarrick.

Maybe its because I've been rolling poorly with the basilisk but I'm tempted to swap it out for a second wyvern if I stick with Mordian. It does leave me heavily reliant on the castellan and two squad of plasma special weapons squads for AT though.

What are some of the best units to target for Old Grudges.

I know a few armies, but would like the rest if I come up with them. Im looking to get 1 or 2 units for each army.

Knights = castellan
Orks = lootas
Eldar = Shining Spears (?)
SM = Repulsors(?)
Tyranids = Genestealers or Hive Guard
Necrons = Destroyers , Gauss Pylon (if taken)

Honestly unless the opponent has a super-heavy that needs to die, I wouldn't bother with Old Grudges as a trait, I'd take something like Grand Strategist instead.

 Horst wrote:
Honestly unless the opponent has a super-heavy that needs to die, I wouldn't bother with Old Grudges as a trait, I'd take something like Grand Strategist instead.

Agreed. But if im taking it to a tourney for ITC format, 5 games, I may get 1 or 2 knight list games given the current meta. But I would still want to pick a unit to maximize that. ALso, with 2ndaries for ITC, I would like to synergize it with whatever Kill X type of unit to get my max 4 points. I:E Reaper on a loota horde, or Gang Busters on Necron Destroyers.

 Dynas wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Honestly unless the opponent has a super-heavy that needs to die, I wouldn't bother with Old Grudges as a trait, I'd take something like Grand Strategist instead.

Agreed. But if im taking it to a tourney for ITC format, 5 games, I may get 1 or 2 knight list games given the current meta. But I would still want to pick a unit to maximize that. ALso, with 2ndaries for ITC, I would like to synergize it with whatever Kill X type of unit to get my max 4 points. I:E Reaper on a loota horde, or Gang Busters on Necron Destroyers.

ITC you can just swap traits out pre-game though. If you're not fighting a guy with an ideal target for Old Grudges, take Grand Strategist.

 Horst wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Honestly unless the opponent has a super-heavy that needs to die, I wouldn't bother with Old Grudges as a trait, I'd take something like Grand Strategist instead.

Agreed. But if im taking it to a tourney for ITC format, 5 games, I may get 1 or 2 knight list games given the current meta. But I would still want to pick a unit to maximize that. ALso, with 2ndaries for ITC, I would like to synergize it with whatever Kill X type of unit to get my max 4 points. I:E Reaper on a loota horde, or Gang Busters on Necron Destroyers.

ITC you can just swap traits out pre-game though. If you're not fighting a guy with an ideal target for Old Grudges, take Grand Strategist.

Hmmm. I totally missed that. I think a went to a tourney and it was permanent for the whole tourney and had to be on the list. Good idea thought.

 Dynas wrote:

 Horst wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Honestly unless the opponent has a super-heavy that needs to die, I wouldn't bother with Old Grudges as a trait, I'd take something like Grand Strategist instead.

Agreed. But if im taking it to a tourney for ITC format, 5 games, I may get 1 or 2 knight list games given the current meta. But I would still want to pick a unit to maximize that. ALso, with 2ndaries for ITC, I would like to synergize it with whatever Kill X type of unit to get my max 4 points. I:E Reaper on a loota horde, or Gang Busters on Necron Destroyers.

ITC you can just swap traits out pre-game though. If you're not fighting a guy with an ideal target for Old Grudges, take Grand Strategist.

Hmmm. I totally missed that. I think a went to a tourney and it was permanent for the whole tourney and had to be on the list. Good idea thought.

Yea, the ITC missions packet says you can pick warlord traits, relics, and psychic powers after you find out what your opponent is. I bring a pair of Knights Gallant, for example, and only pay the CP for a Paragon Gauntlet if I'm fighting other Knights. Really good rule IMO, lets you customize your force a bit based on the mission and opponent. You can do the same with the new Assassin rules... you pick the Assassin and pay the 1 CP during deployment, so you don't have to declare which assassin you're taking until after you know the mission and opponent type.

Standards in tournaments here. Only the warlord(identity) is fixed. Rest(including warlords traits) are swappable in game. They are written to lists as defaults so you don't have to be declaring everything every game(just changes to list).

tneva82 wrote:
Standards in tournaments here. Only the warlord(identity) is fixed. Rest(including warlords traits) are swappable in game. They are written to lists as defaults so you don't have to be declaring everything every game(just changes to list).

I write my tournament lists out like worksheets, like this. Just fill it out and hand it to my opponent. Works pretty good.

BTW don't have vigilus book so it might be covered or maybe it's tournament specifics but whatabout the specialist detachments? Are they like strategems/traits/relics you can swap between games or are those set in stone for tournaments?

tneva82 wrote:
BTW don't have vigilus book so it might be covered or maybe it's tournament specifics but whatabout the specialist detachments? Are they like strategems/traits/relics you can swap between games or are those set in stone for tournaments?

It would fall under something you can swap out, but when you're running a vigilus formation often your army is specifically built to make good use of it, so you wouldn't ever NOT take it. Like on my list above, I use a Vigilus formation and a Vigilus relic, and don't even bother listing them as optional, because under no situation ever would I choose to not take it.

Depends on the event. LVO required them to be set in the list. If you want to build with Vigilus I would check with the TO.

 Horst wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
BTW don't have vigilus book so it might be covered or maybe it's tournament specifics but whatabout the specialist detachments? Are they like strategems/traits/relics you can swap between games or are those set in stone for tournaments?

It would fall under something you can swap out, but when you're running a vigilus formation often your army is specifically built to make good use of it, so you wouldn't ever NOT take it. Like on my list above, I use a Vigilus formation and a Vigilus relic, and don't even bother listing them as optional, because under no situation ever would I choose to not take it.

I am planning on running 3 Tank commanders this sat. Do you find the Vigilus Tank company is worth it? If so, what value are you using? I considered it but it looks a bit weak to me.

 Horst wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
BTW don't have vigilus book so it might be covered or maybe it's tournament specifics but whatabout the specialist detachments? Are they like strategems/traits/relics you can swap between games or are those set in stone for tournaments?

It would fall under something you can swap out, but when you're running a vigilus formation often your army is specifically built to make good use of it, so you wouldn't ever NOT take it. Like on my list above, I use a Vigilus formation and a Vigilus relic, and don't even bother listing them as optional, because under no situation ever would I choose to not take it.

Well for me primary use would be the souped up SAG for orks but that's 2 CP and orks are CP hungry so there are armies I could see myself using it, others less so. Not every army has targets worth enough to spend 2 of the precious CP's even if I have SAG in my list.

 Dynas wrote:

 Horst wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
BTW don't have vigilus book so it might be covered or maybe it's tournament specifics but whatabout the specialist detachments? Are they like strategems/traits/relics you can swap between games or are those set in stone for tournaments?

It would fall under something you can swap out, but when you're running a vigilus formation often your army is specifically built to make good use of it, so you wouldn't ever NOT take it. Like on my list above, I use a Vigilus formation and a Vigilus relic, and don't even bother listing them as optional, because under no situation ever would I choose to not take it.

I am planning on running 3 Tank commanders this sat. Do you find the Vigilus Tank company is worth it? If so, what value are you using? I considered it but it looks a bit weak to me.

The Vigilus Tank Company is worth it for the Relic Battle Cannon alone. The warlord trait is too situational to be worth it, and the stratagems are solidly meh. The ability to move 10" and still use grinding advance is potentially useful, but I generally have more important uses for my CP anyway. But that relic battle cannon... that's most definitely worth 1 CP. Especially since the other Guard relics are kind of meh. You don't need Kurovs AND Grand Strategist since you can only regen 1 CP per turn, and if you're playing vs Chaos you can always choose to pay 1 CP for the Relic of Lost Cadia. A flat 3 damage Battle Cannon though is absolutely fantastic on a tank commander though.

 Horst wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
BTW don't have vigilus book so it might be covered or maybe it's tournament specifics but whatabout the specialist detachments? Are they like strategems/traits/relics you can swap between games or are those set in stone for tournaments?

It would fall under something you can swap out, but when you're running a vigilus formation often your army is specifically built to make good use of it, so you wouldn't ever NOT take it. Like on my list above, I use a Vigilus formation and a Vigilus relic, and don't even bother listing them as optional, because under no situation ever would I choose to not take it.

I have yet to see an ITC tournament that doesnt require you to name and keep the same vigalus detachment throughout. Maybe with etc missions its different. You can change the traits and relics but specialist detachments have to be notified when you submit yoyr list pre tournament.

The ETC's i've been to require you to keep the same detatchment throughout

Looks like I"m wrong about detachments then I guess.

 Horst wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

 Horst wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
BTW don't have vigilus book so it might be covered or maybe it's tournament specifics but whatabout the specialist detachments? Are they like strategems/traits/relics you can swap between games or are those set in stone for tournaments?

It would fall under something you can swap out, but when you're running a vigilus formation often your army is specifically built to make good use of it, so you wouldn't ever NOT take it. Like on my list above, I use a Vigilus formation and a Vigilus relic, and don't even bother listing them as optional, because under no situation ever would I choose to not take it.

I am planning on running 3 Tank commanders this sat. Do you find the Vigilus Tank company is worth it? If so, what value are you using? I considered it but it looks a bit weak to me.

The Vigilus Tank Company is worth it for the Relic Battle Cannon alone. The warlord trait is too situational to be worth it, and the stratagems are solidly meh. The ability to move 10" and still use grinding advance is potentially useful, but I generally have more important uses for my CP anyway. But that relic battle cannon... that's most definitely worth 1 CP. Especially since the other Guard relics are kind of meh. You don't need Kurovs AND Grand Strategist since you can only regen 1 CP per turn, and if you're playing vs Chaos you can always choose to pay 1 CP for the Relic of Lost Cadia. A flat 3 damage Battle Cannon though is absolutely fantastic on a tank commander though.

Boy howdy that relic is bad ass.

I ran against a triple knight list. The guy popped my 2 now relic tanks turn 1. I used a artemia hellhound did 2 wounds to tag a castellan. Overlapping fields, with old grudges and decided to pop smoke and shoot on the tank commander to keep him alive. The relic guy rolled 12 shots! He did not rotate Ion shields (underestimated the tank he said). All hit, hitting on 2's and reroll 1's he saved half. Did 18 damage. 3 baslisk did the final wounds. Damn that was glorious.!

Note, also fought a nother triple knight list game before this. I fluffed hard. My hellhound missed, and i had to shoot two basilisk before finally doing a wound on the knight to use overlapping fields of fire. He did rotate, when all was done I only did 5 wounds :(.
Statistical average for artemia hellhound, 3 basilisk, 3 lemans battle cannon, 1 with relic (on old grudges, cadain, overlapping fields is 27.5) wounds. That game did not go well.

Im looking at filling out a brigade. Has anyone had any luck with command squads of 4 equiped with 4 sniper rifles for elites. I run bobby g so theyd be hitting on bs3+ rerolling 1s to hit. Successful ways they've been employed are appreciated.


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The 32 point price is their main selling point. Their ability to put mortal wounds on characters isnt too bad either.