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CaptainO wrote:
Im looking at filling out a brigade. Has anyone had any luck with command squads of 4 equiped with 4 sniper rifles for elites. I run bobby g so theyd be hitting on bs3+ rerolling 1s to hit. Successful ways they've been employed are appreciated.


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The 32 point price is their main selling point. Their ability to put mortal wounds on characters isnt too bad either.

I'm actually looking at doing the exact same thing - like to the tune of 3 units of command squads with sniper rifles. I mean really...cadians rerolling 1's hitting on 3's and can take orders so you can order them to take aim so they reroll misses. For the cost of 1.5 lascannons per unit. That's gotta be awesome sauce, right?

Well, I assume you're taking 3 elite choices then to fill out the brigade. You gotta ask yourself, what would you rather have for that 32 points?

I have one slot reserved for an Astropath. In case the enemy is GSC with that Mental Onslaught trick, I need him and a Culexis to try to deny it so he doesn't just one shot my Knights and Tanks.

I have another slot reserved for a Platoon Commander w/ the Relic Dagger to outflank. He's been very useful in ITC missions to ensure I can score Recon, he just outflank and hides his squad in the corner.

Third slot... I can either do 1 (maybe 2 if I'm lucky) wounds per turn to a character, or I can take a techpriest, and heal 1-3 wounds to my tanks per turn. Since I rely on my vehicles for my ranged damage, I'd rather keep them alive instead of hoping I get lucky with mortal wounds on characters.

oh yeah I agree with you on that...I'm running a battalion. Not so sure how useful they would be in a brigade. Astropath's and platoon commanders are a must include for me.

Another quick thing to add.

Although it's just 4 points, command squads are in a weird spot right now since RAW it seems they didn't go down to 5 ppm like other veterans. Hopefully a sniper squad will be 28 points soon.

Have you guys seen lists of 250+ models? Can they be competitive? (disregarding the time factor) I would like to play an all infantry list. But Scions might be the way to go.

 Horst wrote:
Well, I assume you're taking 3 elite choices then to fill out the brigade. You gotta ask yourself, what would you rather have for that 32 points?

I have one slot reserved for an Astropath. In case the enemy is GSC with that Mental Onslaught trick, I need him and a Culexis to try to deny it so he doesn't just one shot my Knights and Tanks.

I have another slot reserved for a Platoon Commander w/ the Relic Dagger to outflank. He's been very useful in ITC missions to ensure I can score Recon, he just outflank and hides his squad in the corner.

Third slot... I can either do 1 (maybe 2 if I'm lucky) wounds per turn to a character, or I can take a techpriest, and heal 1-3 wounds to my tanks per turn. Since I rely on my vehicles for my ranged damage, I'd rather keep them alive instead of hoping I get lucky with mortal wounds on characters.

I'm using one of my company commanders to ambush a special weapons squad of 3 x plasma (I'm currently running Mordian so these guys can pop up back field and snipe characters with their plasma guns) rather than a platoon commander.

Astropath or enginrseer are interesting alternatives especially with my current list. What psychic power do you take with the astropath? Honestly I effectively forgoe the psychic phase. My allies are Bobby G, a knight and an assassin. The culexus is effectively my only form of defence currently. The GSC sniper that can force perils on psychics almost counters the benefit of bringing the astropath. I've never ran an enginseer. Being honest very rarely are my vehicles left with wounds to heal. In ITC if you're shooting at a vehicle you might as well kill it in order to get points/Big game hunter.


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Also, as per the rules it appears the astropath would have to subtract 2 from its cast and deny rolls if its within 18" of the culexus...

26pt astropath with psychic maelstrom is one if the best buys in the whole codex. Often it just shaves a few wounds off knights it other heavies, but occasionally you roll well and one shot the enemy's warlord or can just get him in range to pick off the last wound or two off an important character.

Plus his denial can be game changing against a key power (and can be a good use of a CP reroll)

If I was playing against a psychic heavy army I would be taking a Culexus. Both the Culexus and Astropath would need to be near the front/within range of the enemy Psychic to be effective.The astropaths ability to cast smite is completely removed if within 18" of the Culexus and his deny is also compromised and the chance of getting 9+ to get off Maelstrom is pretty slim.

I do like the idea of an astropath with maelstrom as anti knight. I do have a castellan for that.

On a completely different note, can I confirm that if a Wyvern is charged from behind cover it can still overwatch as it does not require LoS to shoot. I get the heavy bolter wouldn't be able to overwatch but 4d6 shots hitting on 4+ in overwatch as Mordians with the Overwatch strat. They'd also get to reroll 1s if within 12" of my Bobby G...

Mental Onslaught can 1 shot a Knight if he stacks leadership correctly. It's absolutely imperative that you have an answer for this trick, or you could be losing a Knight, or at the very least taking 10+ mortal wounds on it. That's the entire reason I have an Astropath in there. Yes, you'd need to deny on a -2 usually, but he's at -2 to cast as well, so it's an even playing field there. Ideally he fails to get the power off at all, but I still want to be able to try to deny it too. The fact that the Astropath can do a few mortal wounds through Maelstrom if you're not facing GSC and not using a Culexis means he's not useless in other situations, which is an added bonus.

You've probably got a point with regards leaving myself without a single deny the witch. How high can a gsc's leadership be buffed?


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The presence of the command squad with snipers could target the psychic before he gets into range. Of course as a gsc no doubt the psychic can be deep striked. I'm really digging using the Vindicare combo'd with Bobby g. along with the Mordian orders, vindicares snipers, castellans shield breakers and the snipers the more characters the enemy has the better for me. It really is about style of play. I (somewhat foolishly) pride myself in ignoring the psychic phase. Snipe the witch etc...

CaptainO wrote:
You've probably got a point with regards leaving myself without a single deny the witch. How high can a gsc's leadership be buffed?

It's easy for him to get a Patriarch to LD13 without psychic powers, it requires a specific warlord trait / relic / buff unit combination to do so though. However, at LD 13 vs an LD 9 Knight, he will deal an average of 10 mortal wounds. If he can cast a single -1 LD power to the Knight, that doubles to average 20 mortal wounds.

/u/Caridor on reddit ran through 2000 simulations of this power, and got these results, with the left column being the leadership differential between the caster and the target.



The whole thread here is very informative. Point is, Astropaths are decently useful anyway, as are Assassins, so taking both seems like an absolute requirement in case you face this. The fact that they're useful in every other matchup makes them even more must-take IMO, since you're not really at a disadvantage ever having an extra Assassin or Astropath. You just need to plan your list with them.

I'm after reading about the onslaught titan killing ability on 1d4chan. No doubt it has huge potential. Having the astropath there definitely gives an additional barrier to the gsc player getting it off but I honestly think removing supporting characters using snipers/sniper rules might be more efficient.

Reading up on the Sanctus I can't help but feel that an astropath turns into a grenade without a pin in my own lines. I know that he'd be a target priority for me if I was a GSC.

As I said I've an aversion to witches. I'd love to hear how anyone got on against GSC.


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 Horst wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
You've probably got a point with regards leaving myself without a single deny the witch. How high can a gsc's leadership be buffed?

It's easy for him to get a Patriarch to LD13 without psychic powers, it requires a specific warlord trait / relic / buff unit combination to do so though. However, at LD 13 vs an LD 9 Knight, he will deal an average of 10 mortal wounds. If he can cast a single -1 LD power to the Knight, that doubles to average 20 mortal wounds.

/u/Caridor on reddit ran through 2000 simulations of this power, and got these results, with the left column being the leadership differential between the caster and the target.



The whole thread here is very informative. Point is, Astropaths are decently useful anyway, as are Assassins, so taking both seems like an absolute requirement in case you face this. The fact that they're useful in every other matchup makes them even more must-take IMO, since you're not really at a disadvantage ever having an extra Assassin or Astropath. You just need to plan your list with them.

Thanks for that. I'll defo give it a look. Any idea what the range of this deathstar is. Bubble wrapping my knight is even more important than ever.


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Thats a really good read. The Patriarch will have a big target painted on his head. Shield breaker missile down his gullet followed by a vindicare (If the vindicare assassin is the one that kills him then I get back 2CP reducing the 3CP cost of using the shield breaker strat)

the Sanctus is scary, but I'd still try to keep the Astropath just out of line of sight, so he can protect my tanks / knights and at least try to deny that. Having a Knight or a Tank Commander die to a psychic power without any defense would just be frustrating.

Carefull with trying to snipe GSC. All of their infantry are basically bodyguards...

 Horst wrote:
the Sanctus is scary, but I'd still try to keep the Astropath just out of line of sight, so he can protect my tanks / knights and at least try to deny that. Having a Knight or a Tank Commander die to a psychic power without any defense would just be frustrating.

Ya its definitely something ill have to consider.


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 Lothar wrote:
Carefull with trying to snipe GSC. All of their infantry are basically bodyguards...

Effectively a 4+ fnp. My 2 wyverns are going to have their work cut out for them removing all that chaff.

Can tank commanders issue orders to themselves?

 CKO wrote:
Can tank commanders issue orders to themselves?

Yes.

Post CA, Tank Commanders are (almost) a no-brainer over regular Leman Russes.

20 points for +1 BS and a Tank Order? (Which can easily be 2 orders with a warlord trait and 3 orders with a stratagem.)
Sign me up.

The problem is that basic Leman russ is bad...like...really really bad. They are not used since the codex came.

Its quite queer the unit was not fixed in the last CHA.

 Lothar wrote:
The problem is that basic Leman russ is bad...like...really really bad. They are not used since the codex came.

Its quite queer the unit was not fixed in the last CHA.

yeah the save needs to be a 2+, that might help a bit.

Pask with 298 Hunter Killer Missiles is the way to go.

But yeah, the Leman Russ is not bad, it's one of the best vehicles in the game. It's just that Tank Commanders and Castellans exist to overshadow that.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Pask with 298 Hunter Killer Missiles is the way to go.

But yeah, the Leman Russ is not bad, it's one of the best vehicles in the game. It's just that Tank Commanders and Castellans exist to overshadow that.

That's true. Conquerors are actually still pretty good. I'm kind of toying with the idea of taking a Spearhead of Catachan tanks, 2 Tank Commanders and 3 Conquerors. Only 800 ish points, and packs a truly punishing amount of firepower.

My Leman Russes are the workhorses in my army - but then I play Catachan which increases their reliability by like 10000%.

Hearing someone state that Leman Russes are "bad...really really bad" feels totally alien to me, but then I don't play in a Castellan-heavy meta.

Bringing all my 5 Leman Russes (2 TC's in Executioner/Punisher, 2 battle tanks and 1 demolisher) to the table is probably the cheesiest thing I can do, especially if they're backed up by some artillery and hellhounds/dual heavy flamer chimeras.

While we are talking about Russes.
Do You use Tech Priests? In order to grinding advance one will not move his Russes more than 6' anyway so techpriests can easily catch up. Them being characters provides also survivability. They cost 30 pts now for d3 wounds per turn healed.

Usually I put tech priests next to artillery but was thinking about more tank mechanic approach

Depends on the competitiveness of your play environment.

In the competitive tourney, there is no place for basic Leman, and the Tank commanders are often taken only when you already have a knight.

If you want more review on lemans, find out the comment on them from Brandon Grant, a name that surely rings a bell...he does not rank them good...

Multiple Leman russes are just far too easy for a castellan to destroy. Even if you roll awesomely then a mechanicus Castellan will get at least two turns of shooting on full tier (for now at least) which could easily be 6 dead tanks.

If you play in friendly games they're cool. In competitive they just can't compete against Knights. If you were taking them as Brood brothers the "cancel strat" would actually combo well with Leman Russes shooting at a Castellan.


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I got my a** handed to me by a tau player last night. Find out the rapid fire range for their fire warriors and then stay out of it!!!!

Now I'll admit I did the exact wrong thing (moved towards him) but in one turn he killed: 1 castellan, 1 tank commander, 1 wyvern, 20 infantry, an astro path, a company commander and bobby G. Seriously he killed like 1400 points in 1 turn.

Lesson learned. I should have worked out the rapid fire range (including move and advance as I think he has an ability that allow shooting after advancing) and kept everything behind that. Imperium definitely has Tau for range and worst case scenario I could have ran my infantry up to objectives with move move move. If I was out of range of t1 shooting, letting him go first probably would have been a good idea as it would allow me to steal "hold more" at the end of each turn (we were playing ITC.


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Punisher tank commander did badly against them as it meant he had to finish within 24" after firing.

I ran a pure AM list against Knights. I had 3 Tank Commanders, all with battle cannon, 1 with the relic, and then 3 baslisk. I usually lose 1 tank a turn plus wounds on another one from the knight castallen.

The Vigilus Battle cannon relic is worth taking.

Also, I find that if I go first, its better to use the Shoot and Smoke order turn 1, even though you want to go first and use the cadian order because the -1 really makes the Castellan think twice about the overcharged cawls wrath.

I really wish they would make tank commanders act like actual commanders. Most of the time they just end up ordering themselves.

I would revert the points drop but give them 2 or 3 orders. Also some sort of bodyguard rule from normal Russes would be good as well.

A system where the commander orders the tanks while they protect him would make both units viable.

A single Tank Commander can give out 3 orders per turn.
1 by default, 1 as a warlord trait and 1 as a stratagem.

Paying for an extra order is pointless if you don't have that extra LRBT to use it on. I prefer the current system.

I had no problem paying the original price for tank commanders so I would take a system where Russes and commanders actually compliment each other (like they should have in the first place) in a heartbeat. Instead we have the current system where people just pay a little extra for the one that shoots better and forget about the other one.

A bodyguard rule alone would likely make up for the price the difference. Tank commanders and especially Pask are usually among the highest priority targets in a guard army. Letting some cheaper tanks (who would also have access to orders) share the load would be very strong.