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2019/12/12 15:24:59
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Also see if you can take the russes in a spearhead with the vigilus formation. Making the tanks get objective secured and getting the hammer of sundrance is great, as well as the extra abilities.
How would you handle a winged hive tyrant with -1 to be hit wt and the -1 to the damage suffered relics ? Statically, it's about 5 russes with hb sponsons to kill it ..
I thought about an Hydra but it's not that great. I do have acess to the assassinorum and the Inquisition.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/12 16:36:56
on a purely theorethical basis uncharged Plasma should be good. It has just enough Strength to wound on 3+, if he the flyrant has -1 damage you don't gain anything from overcharging anyway so you can leave it and don't risk blowing up.
The Hydra is still good, but loosing half its damage really hurts.
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200
2019/12/12 16:57:22
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I am looking to play a mainly tank (LRBT variants) army but I have played little of this edition and certainly no AM. Is is viable or even sensible to try? I have done a little research and i like the demolishers and executioners, perhaps in tallarn or vostroyan, however I'm not sure hat is a reasonable amount to have in and what the pitfalls of going tank heavy might be.
Any experienced treadheads want to give me a few pointers?
No, it's not viable.
Lists are made on the assumption they need to kill a Knight. Therefore any vehicle smaller than a Knight gets deleted instantly.
2019/12/12 17:13:51
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I am looking to play a mainly tank (LRBT variants) army but I have played little of this edition and certainly no AM. Is is viable or even sensible to try? I have done a little research and i like the demolishers and executioners, perhaps in tallarn or vostroyan, however I'm not sure hat is a reasonable amount to have in and what the pitfalls of going tank heavy might be.
Any experienced treadheads want to give me a few pointers?
No, it's not viable.
Lists are made on the assumption they need to kill a Knight. Therefore any vehicle smaller than a Knight gets deleted instantly.
They are designed to kill one knight a turn, in general. Not several smaller units so it may work. And not everyone play in such a competitive environment: I have never faced a single knight of my life for example (even in tournaments I never faced the knights lists !)
Pyroalchi wrote: on a purely theorethical basis uncharged Plasma should be good. It has just enough Strength to wound on 3+, if he the flyrant has -1 damage you don't gain anything from overcharging anyway so you can leave it and don't risk blowing up.
The Hydra is still good, but loosing half its damage really hurts.
Hmmm I think a hive tyrant is T7, isn't it ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/12 17:15:22
Im looking at this list post CA ITC tourney list.
3 relics, 2 WLT, lots of CP, 2 vigilus detachments. Meant to tackle the marine meta.
Catachan Arty party with rerolls and relic for AP boost, ignore LOS and Cover relic with CC and MoO baby sitters. Shoot twice strat each turn.
Catachan Leman Russ Eradicator to ignore cover on those pesky stealthy marines. With catachan you should be getting 9 shots per tank with grinding advance at -2 AP and ignoring the cover. D3 damage good for taking out primaris. I considered the demolisher catachan which has higher strength and AP, but doesnt ignore cover. The goal for these Eradicators is to clear out eliminators with he 2+ cover so they dont pick off all my characters.
Spam astropath to take advantage of spells and ability to grant buff to ignore cover an units with 18" within 6.
Mortar teams are there to fill the brigade and can be used to provide some anti horde. WHich I could get them as cadian but oh well. Maybe make a squad engineers and hide on objective in back.
Sentinels can use outflank strat with Autocannon marine killing goodness, with tallarn no penalties to hit.
Tallarn Tank Commanders move and shoot and scoot to hide out of LoS to survive. Relic Hammer on one, punisher on one for anti horde in case run up against orks. (considering battle cannon)
Tallarn infantry can be fast and try and advance them up to within rapid fire range just within 12" to avoid the stealthy bonus.
Ardia seems like a good pysker option for the +1 to hit, too bad its infantry only. Not sure who to put her with? Camp with the mortars? Run around up front with the infantry squads? Bullgryn came to mind, but the Assault Centrurions are just going to melt them (unless i get Fight priority/charge off). I considered 7-9 bullgryn with Invul shields, priest, astropath save +1 buff for 3++, and Ardia +1 to hit (2s), can be good and would definitely kill 3 Aggressors in a charge, the issue is the thunderfire cannons slowing them down, and they are not an easy unit to hide.
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [15pts]: Mortar [9pts]
++ Total: [135 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Would it be acceptable to have some infantry for screens but also an allied SC detachment of BA captains to counter charge anything trying to lock me up (and to deal with example nid monsters, etc)?
2019/12/12 19:47:45
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
You are totally right, I mixed up strength and toughness. In that case forget about my uncharged plasma comment.
In that case: if you can get around the short range the Banewolf and Hellhound might be worth a second look. At least they autohit and doing 1 damage they don't care about the -1 damage relict. The Hellhound has twice the shots, but wounds on 5+ compared to the Banewolfs 2+. But It would still take really long to killl the Hive Tyrant with that.
I just read again about the -1 Damage trait. Its a warlord trait that only starts at the end of the phase the bearer first took damage. So as long as you bring him down in one phase, you can make full damage.
Apart from that: maybe Psykers?
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200
2019/12/12 21:29:47
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Dynas wrote: Sentinels can use outflank strat with Autocannon marine killing goodness, with tallarn no penalties to hit.
Do people think that AC sentinels took a bit of a hit? Both lascannon and missile versions are cheaper now, and cost was the main advantage of ACs. I'm a bit of a lascannon lover though.
Dynas wrote: Sentinels can use outflank strat with Autocannon marine killing goodness, with tallarn no penalties to hit.
Do people think that AC sentinels took a bit of a hit? Both lascannon and missile versions are cheaper now, and cost was the main advantage of ACs. I'm a bit of a lascannon lover though.
Taking a hit would imply they were good in the first place, but my heavily biased opinion on the uselessness of sentinels this edition is well documented so I'm probably not the best person to ask. Even with the points drops I'd rather just stick those lascannons on Russes since that's a 7pt upgrade now to give you the same firepower you're paying 45pts for in a sentinel.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2019/12/12 21:35:31
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
You are totally right, I mixed up strength and toughness. In that case forget about my uncharged plasma comment.
In that case: if you can get around the short range the Banewolf and Hellhound might be worth a second look. At least they autohit and doing 1 damage they don't care about the -1 damage relict. The Hellhound has twice the shots, but wounds on 5+ compared to the Banewolfs 2+. But It would still take really long to killl the Hive Tyrant with that.
I just read again about the -1 Damage trait. Its a warlord trait that only starts at the end of the phase the bearer first took damage. So as long as you bring him down in one phase, you can make full damage.
Apart from that: maybe Psykers?
That's true, I tend to forget it and I think it tends to forget it too...
Well that improve things quite a bit tbh. Gonna check my codex and WD to find some tools now. Thanks !
There continues to only be a handful of useful ways to use sentinels. They have never, and continue to not, provide enough firepower to justify their cost. The uses continue to be:
1) deep strike blockers
2) objective grabbers
3) brigade tax fillers
The changes to the game have minimized the first, and they really aren't durable enough for the second after turn one or two. The third at least bundles nicely with the other two.
That leaves you with two basic options: keep them cheap, as scouts, and rely on mobility; or keep them cheap, as armored, to stand and shoot in a brigade. (Tallarn can run mobile armored, TBF, and Catachan heavy flamer scouts are semi spicy) I'd still pick plasma for the armored sentinels, especially under Cadian (both for rerolls and to trigger Overlap), but they're all semi viable.
2019/12/12 21:54:50
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Polonius wrote: They have never, and continue to not, provide enough firepower to justify their cost.
They were pretty good ouflankers when vehicles had facings. That's the last time I remember them really being super useful. Could be nostalgia though, I probably wasted too many points on my outflanking ac/hk sentinels. Great against those side armour 11 vehicles though.
Frankly I have 3 guard armies, but competitively all I see are butt naked Cadians pretending to be catachans and guarding basilisk's, baneblades, or knights
If they aren't spamming baneblades or knights it's valkyrie's full of ogryn, priests, and psykers.
That's not to say infantry IG is not viable just stating what I've seen competitively with the exception of 1 Krieg player...but he was running a bunch of super heavy forgeworld flame tanks.
It was cool but competitive wise it wasn't getting much traction on the tabletop.
2019/12/14 13:14:07
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Polonius wrote: They have never, and continue to not, provide enough firepower to justify their cost.
They were pretty good ouflankers when vehicles had facings. That's the last time I remember them really being super useful. Could be nostalgia though, I probably wasted too many points on my outflanking ac/hk sentinels. Great against those side armour 11 vehicles though.
I am including 3 sentinels for primarily for theme, but also for FA slots, and I had not thought about switching them to Lascannons with the point drop. Not competitive, but probably slightly more usable now. I don't play competitive outside of store events so no big issue for me
"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties"
2019/12/14 22:56:01
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Which regimental doctrine is the best for handling morale, Valhallan or Mordian?
I looks like mordian is better when you lose less than half a squad, but valhallan become better when you lose more than half. I suppose valhallan is good because you might have one guardsmen left after a big attack, but it seems just as likely that the whole squad will be wiped. And even then, one guardsman won't do much except in very specific circumstances. But for mordian, I can't see then 1 point of LD making much a difference in any situation. I guess the question is: is 5+ overwatch worth a situational morale advantage? I don't play guard, but I am looking to get a loyal 32 of sorts and am trying to pick the best doctrine for it.
2019/12/14 22:58:32
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Eipi10 wrote: Which regimental doctrine is the best for handling morale, Valhallan or Mordian?
I looks like mordian is better when you lose less than half a squad, but valhallan become better when you lose more than half. I suppose valhallan is good because you might have one guardsmen left after a big attack, but it seems just as likely that the whole squad will be wiped. And even then, one guardsman won't do much except in very specific circumstances. But for mordian, I can't see then 1 point of LD making much a difference in any situation. I guess the question is: is 5+ overwatch worth a situational morale advantage? I don't play guard, but I am looking to get a loyal 32 of sorts and am trying to pick the best doctrine for it.
Mordian is good for vehicles, not infantry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/14 22:58:39
2019/12/14 23:12:39
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Eipi10 wrote: Which regimental doctrine is the best for handling morale, Valhallan or Mordian?
I looks like mordian is better when you lose less than half a squad, but valhallan become better when you lose more than half. I suppose valhallan is good because you might have one guardsmen left after a big attack, but it seems just as likely that the whole squad will be wiped. And even then, one guardsman won't do much except in very specific circumstances. But for mordian, I can't see then 1 point of LD making much a difference in any situation. I guess the question is: is 5+ overwatch worth a situational morale advantage? I don't play guard, but I am looking to get a loyal 32 of sorts and am trying to pick the best doctrine for it.
Valhallans are nice in that you really don't need to babysit the squads any, and they can spread out as needed. Mordians need to be B2B which really hurts their use as screens, grabbing objectives, etc. Usually if an opponent wants them gone they have to commit to killing them unless they knocked a squad down to 3 or less men in a single shooting phase. Main draw for them is mk45 conscripts, or kitting out some SWS and HWS to shoot into melee for various reasons. Strat is quite literally useless for them unfortunately.
Catachans are comparable to mordians in that they also get +1 ld, but just by being near officers, where they're going to be most of the time anyways. Catachans also have that really tasty S4 which is nice.
Simply put, most of the doctrines don't mean much for a 32 detachment. Maybe a few more guys stick around or you get a little better melee but they won't be doing a whole lot. If you just plan on adding a swarm of infantry to screen and grab objectives, you probably want the old standby of Catachans with a couple melee buff characters like straken and a priest or two. That way they're mobile, they have lasguns to clear hordes, LD 8, and melee to help protect your line and clear objectives or finish off something they shot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/15 01:43:22
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2019/12/15 05:45:04
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Valhallans are nice in that you really don't need to babysit the squads any, and they can spread out as needed. Mordians need to be B2B which really hurts their use as screens, grabbing objectives, etc. Usually if an opponent wants them gone they have to commit to killing them unless they knocked a squad down to 3 or less men in a single shooting phase. Main draw for them is mk45 conscripts, or kitting out some SWS and HWS to shoot into melee for various reasons. Strat is quite literally useless for them unfortunately.
Catachans are comparable to mordians in that they also get +1 ld, but just by being near officers, where they're going to be most of the time anyways. Catachans also have that really tasty S4 which is nice.
Simply put, most of the doctrines don't mean much for a 32 detachment. Maybe a few more guys stick around or you get a little better melee but they won't be doing a whole lot. If you just plan on adding a swarm of infantry to screen and grab objectives, you probably want the old standby of Catachans with a couple melee buff characters like straken and a priest or two. That way they're mobile, they have lasguns to clear hordes, LD 8, and melee to help protect your line and clear objectives or finish off something they shot.
I am not going anything fancy like that, my tentative list is 3 guardsmen squads, a CC, a PC, the blackstone primaris psyker (not to buff the guard, just because I need another deny + smite), and maybe a priest since it looks like I will have the points after CA and I have a model that will fit. While I know catachan is the best regiment overall, I would feel really bad about running non-catachan guard models as catachans. I figured one of the other morale boosting regiments would serve this detachment the best.
It looks to me like the valhallan RD will only really come into play if you get an 11-13 on the moral test. Anything more and no moral buff will help and anything less and it won't make a difference over +1 LD. Mordia will be better for anything less, especially with the overwatch buff. I just don't know how many models I can expect to loose in one turn when a squad gets targeted. Should I expect to lose most of the squad, the whole squad, or only a small part of the squad? I don't play horde armies so I really have no idea what to expect. I can't use my past experience either, since a frag cannon can eliminate a whole guard squad on it's own. Some quick math tells me an intercessor squad can take about 5 guardsmen in one turn, so that would make mordia better. But if my opponent decides to throw some storm bolters in on top of the intercessors, I will reach 6-8 casualties, valhalla is better. I don't know which I can should expect to happen, do people go in for the kill when targeting guard squads or just sprinkle them with some fire and continue on their way?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/15 05:46:05
2019/12/15 12:19:09
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I've been having fun with a Mordian list. I have my command tank upgraded to a commissar tank (treat your leadership as 9 within 6". Add close order and a reg standard, my squads are Ld 11 while screening the tank moving with it. I don't think I've failed a morale check yet with them, and med packs in the command squads are useful IMO to keep he squads going. Yes they can get deleted outright, but any that get low simply swap places for a full up one and keep going. +1 to overwatch is also helpful here, and I have caught a few people by suprise with the Mordian order and plinked characters that get to close trying to buff squads.
I'm by no means saying it's better or competitive, but it's fun
*edit* other question, how are manticores in 8th. I've never fielded them in general, are they worth it any or are basilisks always better?
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/12/15 14:20:53
"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties"
2019/12/15 15:19:34
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
30 guardsmen isn't really a horde. I'm used to losing 60. Turn against a player that knows what theyre doing and in really intense games I've see a 100 die in one turn. It really depends on the rest of your list and what you're allying in, but most likely those guardsmen will all be dead turn 1-2 if they have any serious use for you. That said sometimes just taking bullets and wasting opponents time is the best thing guardsmen can do, and it can win you games. I've had games against knights for example where guardsmen were my most important unit. They never landed a wound all Game, but with proper spacing I was able to delay gallants hitting my line till turn 4.
Basically just realize they're going to die crazy fast if the opponent wants em dead.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2019/12/15 21:50:41
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Salted Diamond wrote: I've been having fun with a Mordian list. I have my command tank upgraded to a commissar tank (treat your leadership as 9 within 6". Add close order and a reg standard, my squads are Ld 11 while screening the tank moving with it. I don't think I've failed a morale check yet with them, and med packs in the command squads are useful IMO to keep he squads going. Yes they can get deleted outright, but any that get low simply swap places for a full up one and keep going. +1 to overwatch is also helpful here, and I have caught a few people by suprise with the Mordian order and plinked characters that get to close trying to buff squads.
I'm by no means saying it's better or competitive, but it's fun
*edit* other question, how are manticores in 8th. I've never fielded them in general, are they worth it any or are basilisks always better?
I won't be able to pull fancy tricks like that, I have about 200 points to work with once you take account of the psyker. But are lasguns really that good at character sniping? I looks like they will only do 1 wound to a SM captain on average. I guess that's about the same as it is against a normal SM when using FRFSRF, point for point. It's it more useful than Valhalla though? Letting guardsmen shoot into custodes who are tied up in melee seems like a decent ability.
I don't think manticores are worth their points compared to basilisks. They are better in most every way, but not 25 points better. A 4 attack limit is not a big deal and 2.5 extra shots is way better than an extra point of AP.
MrMoustaffa wrote: 30 guardsmen isn't really a horde. I'm used to losing 60. Turn against a player that knows what theyre doing and in really intense games I've see a 100 die in one turn. It really depends on the rest of your list and what you're allying in, but most likely those guardsmen will all be dead turn 1-2 if they have any serious use for you. That said sometimes just taking bullets and wasting opponents time is the best thing guardsmen can do, and it can win you games. I've had games against knights for example where guardsmen were my most important unit. They never landed a wound all Game, but with proper spacing I was able to delay gallants hitting my line till turn 4.
Basically just realize they're going to die crazy fast if the opponent wants em dead.
They are a very "That's what the Mobile Infantry is good for" kind of detachment. But I would rather take casualties from my opponent than from morale, so I want a RD good for that. But if what you say is true, does that mean a guard squad under fire will lose about 6-7 models per turn? mordians would get wiped with those kind of loses, but valhalla will still have 1 or 2 guys left. Anything more or less and I might as well go mordian, both for better combat efficiency while they are alive and for better moral against light loses.
2019/12/16 02:56:17
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Manticores are pricey compared to basilisks true, but it's worth it for the extra alpha turn 1 imo. Add on the stupid amount of invun's on the board meaning that AP-3 gets wasted most the time I'll tend to take manticore's unless the cost is an issue.
There's also the fact that manticore's are way more compact, and hence easier to hide behind cover and pack into my cases (which definitely isn't a major point in their favour personally...).
Also guardsmen have the durability of wet paper, you're more likely to lose the entire squad outright to wounds rather than morale. About the only thing you can do for them is keep them in cover (Except a bunch of stuff now ignores cover) and use the take cover strat if you really want them to live.
Expect your guardsmen to die a lot, and bring a sufficient quantity to ensure you still have some left by turn 5. Trying to make them more durable is a fools errand, they don't have the stats or rules to pull that off.
2019/12/16 03:02:27
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
MrMoustaffa wrote: 30 guardsmen isn't really a horde. I'm used to losing 60. Turn against a player that knows what theyre doing and in really intense games I've see a 100 die in one turn. It really depends on the rest of your list and what you're allying in, but most likely those guardsmen will all be dead turn 1-2 if they have any serious use for you. That said sometimes just taking bullets and wasting opponents time is the best thing guardsmen can do, and it can win you games. I've had games against knights for example where guardsmen were my most important unit. They never landed a wound all Game, but with proper spacing I was able to delay gallants hitting my line till turn 4.
Basically just realize they're going to die crazy fast if the opponent wants em dead.
And a rare occasion where playing fluffy is also playing competitive at the same time
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2019/12/16 04:03:14
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
MrMoustaffa wrote: 30 guardsmen isn't really a horde. I'm used to losing 60. Turn against a player that knows what theyre doing and in really intense games I've see a 100 die in one turn. It really depends on the rest of your list and what you're allying in, but most likely those guardsmen will all be dead turn 1-2 if they have any serious use for you. That said sometimes just taking bullets and wasting opponents time is the best thing guardsmen can do, and it can win you games. I've had games against knights for example where guardsmen were my most important unit. They never landed a wound all Game, but with proper spacing I was able to delay gallants hitting my line till turn 4.
Basically just realize they're going to die crazy fast if the opponent wants em dead.
And a rare occasion where playing fluffy is also playing competitive at the same time
You say that, but I think Guard really does reward you for adopting the mindset of a guard general in the books. We all know the phases a guard player goes through as he learns the army.
1. Love every guardsman, name em, give em special little touches and backstories. "Little Jimmy will make it, just hang in there!" You feel every lost guardsman, many of them this is the first time you've seen them die.
2. "Oh God Emperor why is everyone dying?" Get real jaded, life is cheap. Send in the next wave, there's more where that came from. You've watched entire platoons get wiped at this point, sometimes all for nothing. You just shovel them into the grinder, knowing they don't stand a choice.
3. "A guardsman's LIFE is to die. My job has always been to send them to places where they can die. I'm not afraid to spend them, but I never waste them." Yes, you're perfectly willing to throw ten guardsmen at a knight. Others see you as a horrible monster, but none will see that you saved the rest of the platoon by buying them another turn of shooting to kill the knight.
Remember that third quote, and you'll understand a lot about how guard works. Our army works how it's supposed to in the lore far more than most, even in pretty competitive play. You should always be ready for losses, they're inevitable. The key is making those losses mean something. 9 guardsmen die to protect the plasma gun that kills that smash captain that jumped into your line. Those 3 squads died to protect the tank behind them to take out the enemy knight. Those 3 tanks died to keep the enemy off the objective one more turn to win the game. Guard plays the economy of war more than almost any faction in this game, and when you wrap your head around that, you really start to understand how guard works.
It's not something well represented with ITC unfortunately, what with killing units being a major part of winning, but with GW missions that mindset serves you well. It's not exactly something to bring up in the tactics thread though, most people here have reached that point a long time ago if they're looking at competitive play, but it's always good to remind the rookies of this from time to time.
I think I can best sum this up is the game I mentioned where I fought against a chaos knight army. I had a very bread and butter Valhallans list with 100 guardsmen, hellhounds, Russe's, and basilisks. I would sacrifice 30 guardsmen a turn feeding them into the chaos melee knights to buy me turns to shoot. At one point, a knight died, then got back up with one wound thanks to their strat. Shooting phase is over, I can't kill him... Or can I? So I charge in a weakened Hellhound, claiming that I'm just trying to prevent him from falling 'forward' for lack of a better term, and fighting. Knight player takes bait, squishes hellhound. Hellhound explodes, killing the knight and saving the right flank. Yes, I doomed that hellhound, it was sent into that fight specifically to die. But if I hadn't sacrificed the crew of that tank, several more tanks would die. I proceeded to lose the game due to some cold dice on my Hammer of Sunderance, but it's a good lesson all the same.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2019/12/16 16:27:49
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I won't be able to pull fancy tricks like that, I have about 200 points to work with once you take account of the psyker. But are lasguns really that good at character sniping? I looks like they will only do 1 wound to a SM captain on average. I guess that's about the same as it is against a normal SM when using FRFSRF, point for point. It's it more useful than Valhalla though? Letting guardsmen shoot into custodes who are tied up in melee seems like a decent ability.
I don't think manticores are worth their points compared to basilisks. They are better in most every way, but not 25 points better. A 4 attack limit is not a big deal and 2.5 extra shots is way better than an extra point of AP..
The order effects rapid fire weapons so plasma gets to join in as well, if you also happen to have "Laurels of Command" you can then trigger FRFSRF at the character. That is how I usually roll and I've now had opponents pull charcters out of aura range because they know I could do it. I should add they my local meta is only a couple of people even own a knight and there are zero Custodes players, not even as allies.
"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties"
2019/12/16 17:05:30
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Brandon Grant did an interview recently (art of war I believe). where he was stating that catachan even with leadership and S4 are still not enough to crack marines. They just dont care.
Im really beginning to lean more toward Tallarn for Infantry and Tank commanders.
Infantry can move and advance and still shoot with regiment. Make sure to keep out of LoS.
Scions seem like an option but still die just as fast. not sure what would be the best option honestly.
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