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In case it's of interest I played vs IG with my valorous heart sisters. In short: I got royally screwed by the range advantage. IG was able to keep distance with ease(helped by deployment zone). However being valorous heart all those battle cannons and earthshaker cannons were fairly useless with me saving on 3+ them. If you can try take out imagifiers(characters with big banner) if you can so that -2 armour save starts to affect.

What did scare the crap out of me was punisher. 49 shots at S5 is just what T3 3+/6+++ ignore up to -2 hates. Those were scything through my poor sisters like nothing. These will be your primary damage dealers vs sisters(though ordered lasguns will also be helpful since they have just T3 and AP0 is perfect anyway) so protect them at all cost. Remember sisters can drop seraphim with 6" melta pistols that can get extra range when they drop in so don't forget your screens(I did not have yet those as no models on sale yet).

Sisters will soak up damage with ease but being primarily 12"/24" weapon ranges you can limit damage in return for a while. -3 AP weapons will be handy vs their anti tank tanks who will also be ignoring -2 modifiers and will basically fire 3d3 S8 lascannons each.

I'm sure in PA we will get a new character, or at least a new sculpt of an existing model. I'm fairly sure everyone has gotten something in PA (craftworld and DE got redone banshees and incubi, iirc)

Fisheyes wrote:
I'm sure in PA we will get a new character, or at least a new sculpt of an existing model. I'm fairly sure everyone has gotten something in PA (craftworld and DE got redone banshees and incubi, iirc)

Not everybody has got model. Eldar and DE got models. Blood angels got, tyranids didn't. Chaos got in PA2, black templars didn't. Dark angels got in PA4, grey kngiths and thousand sons didn't. In PA5 tau got new models, cult got start collecting set and previously in boxed set model came but IG doesn't look to be getting. Though guess theory is right but GW has only stated A hero will lead the book. In PA6 ghaz is coming and looks a lot like that's it.

IG will get new rules though. Likely build your own regiment rules, warlord traits, relics and stratagems like tyranids etc. Maybe solo bonus if you don't soup like GK and marines got.

Darn, so much for that hope. Not that we need more units, but a revised model would have been nice

Well it's not 100% official yet and seeing Ghaz comes with gretchin model as well that's already pushing the "1 model per book" idea though since they are coming likely in same box guess could still fit. But also odd no space wolf character(marines don't get character?)...

So there's still some hope but wouldn't hold out yet. But one would assume something would be shown by now if something comes. Also nothing on preorders this saturday so what? Surprise release week later from book?

Whelp first reveal we got is a 1cp strat that gives an infantry unit -1 to hit if it's near bullgryn. Sounds cool, but niche. I'm trying to think of serious ways to use it. Best I can come up with is helping protect a character from sniping (although if you're close enough to use this you should be close enough to just, you know, physically hide the model behind the bullgryn) perhaps you could run ogryn behind the bullgryn and use this, but that seems pointless. Other than that you have guardsmen, and most units don't have enough wounds for a measly -1 to hit to matter. Maybe a conscript screen for Valhallans to make them more annoying to remove, but I'm kind of grasping at straws here. Am I missing something with this?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Whelp first reveal we got is a 1cp strat that gives an infantry unit -1 to hit if it's near bullgryn. Sounds cool, but niche. I'm trying to think of serious ways to use it. Best I can come up with is helping protect a character from sniping (although if you're close enough to use this you should be close enough to just, you know, physically hide the model behind the bullgryn) perhaps you could run ogryn behind the bullgryn and use this, but that seems pointless. Other than that you have guardsmen, and most units don't have enough wounds for a measly -1 to hit to matter. Maybe a conscript screen for Valhallans to make them more annoying to remove, but I'm kind of grasping at straws here. Am I missing something with this?

Same to save a character from sniping as they won get mortal wounds on 6's

Consrcip blob, or using a single bullgryn bodyguard and tuck him out of LoS and then have a 9 man blob of bullgryn out in the open with Pychic Barrier and NIghtshourd, then use this stratagem to give them another -1 to hit, but thats assuming your opponent is actually trying to kill them.

COuld be good with scions as well.

Might (!) be nice to give heavy weapons squads that little bit more survivability.

Best thing I can think of right now is this

take 2 min-mid size units of bullgryns. advance them up the center of the board, cast Nightshroud on the one furthest forward then pop the strat and take cover! over on the other one when the enemy targets them. You now have 2 units of -1 to hit bullgryns in the middle of the board, one of them with an additional +1 to their save.

Requires a heavy point investment however. That said I can see an argument for splitting a 6 man or larger bullgryn squad in two to try and take advantage of the strat where possible though there's an obvious trade off in pyschic and priest buffs for running 2 units.

It stacks with other -1 to hit buffs. RAW, you could use it with other Imperium units and possibly GSC as well. -2 to hit Custodes, anyone?

 Dynas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Whelp first reveal we got is a 1cp strat that gives an infantry unit -1 to hit if it's near bullgryn. Sounds cool, but niche. I'm trying to think of serious ways to use it. Best I can come up with is helping protect a character from sniping (although if you're close enough to use this you should be close enough to just, you know, physically hide the model behind the bullgryn) perhaps you could run ogryn behind the bullgryn and use this, but that seems pointless. Other than that you have guardsmen, and most units don't have enough wounds for a measly -1 to hit to matter. Maybe a conscript screen for Valhallans to make them more annoying to remove, but I'm kind of grasping at straws here. Am I missing something with this?

Same to save a character from sniping as they won get mortal wounds on 6's

Consrcip blob, or using a single bullgryn bodyguard and tuck him out of LoS and then have a 9 man blob of bullgryn out in the open with Pychic Barrier and NIghtshourd, then use this stratagem to give them another -1 to hit, but thats assuming your opponent is actually trying to kill them.

COuld be good with scions as well.

So, going to respond to your ideas in order. Not intending to come across as snarky, just pointing out issues and why I didn't consider those

1. Doesn't affect snipers at all, mortals are done on wound not hit. Otherwise I could run Admech transuranic arquebuses that could mortal wound any target in the game on a 3+ thanks to all their hit buffs. There may be a few that do it on hit, but I'm unaware of them.

2.doesnt work with ogryn bodyguard. Even if you kit him exactly like a bullgryn, he never gets bullgryn keyword. Otherwise a bullgryn bodyguard backing up a bullgryn unit would be amazing. Conscripts could be useful, but I don't really like wasting CP on them. I guess if there's a blob you know you positively need to survive it could be useful combined with take cover, pyschic barrier, and nightshroud. That makes a conscript unit at -2 to hit with a 3+ armor save, but that's a lot of investment.

3. Seems rare stormtroopers would be near bullgryn, but in niche scenarios where you think only a couple stormbolters are shooting at them or something it could be worthwhile. Remember, you need to be 3" away from the unit you wish to give this to, that means basically touching in combat terms.

I think like gbghg said, the most practical use is say two squads of bullgryn and use this as a way to buff both. One squad gets nightshroud and pyschic barrier, the less likely to be shot squad gets the strategems if need be. You now have two squads with +1 armor and -1 to hit, one of which has 3+ invuln saves and the other a 4+. The problem with stacking all the buffs onto one squad just means the opponent will shoot the non buffed squad, so you have to spread them out. Keep in mind, you can do this already to a single big squad of 9 bullgryn already, and for less CP.

Question is if it's really worth it to run two smaller bullgryn squads that you need to invest 2cp and 2 pyskers a turn to keep running at peak efficiency. Granted you get slightly more attacks and can split them up for flexibility, but you're investing more things into keeping them alive as well. I guess if you're going for a super ogryn bomb like two maxed squads out of a gorgon or something it could be fun, but I don't see someone running 18 ogryn on anything less than a casual or Apocalypse game anytime soon.

Yeah, this is gonna be a niche strat for pure guard armies I think. More of "I'd rather this unit lived and the bullgryns just happened to be nearby" than something you plan around. It a gonna be cheasy as help in soup though, people have already noted -2 to hit custodes or -1 to hit centurions. Infantry is a very broad keyword and someone will undoubtedly find something disgusting to pair it with, if not in gw then in fw.

I don't know whether or not it will actually apply for soup, since it's an Astra Militarum stratagem for an Infantry unit--not applying to the Bullgryn.

The strat specifies "an infantry unit from your army" mentions nothing else about limiting the targeting to AM. The AM stratagem bit just limits you to only being able to use the strat if you have an AM detachment iirc.

Edit: Also, if the strat was meant to only affect AM it would be keyword "ASTRA MILATARUM INFANTRY" like "Take Cover!". In any case I half expect GW to FAQ the strat to exactly that in a couple of months when someone makes a nasty combo with it and takes it to a major tourney. (Also i just checked and wulfen have "Infantry" so are an eligible target for the strat, would help a blob of them survive their run up the board)

Yep what about Admech Stygies Kataphrons for -2

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Whelp first reveal we got is a 1cp strat that gives an infantry unit -1 to hit if it's near bullgryn. Sounds cool, but niche. I'm trying to think of serious ways to use it. Best I can come up with is helping protect a character from sniping (although if you're close enough to use this you should be close enough to just, you know, physically hide the model behind the bullgryn) perhaps you could run ogryn behind the bullgryn and use this, but that seems pointless. Other than that you have guardsmen, and most units don't have enough wounds for a measly -1 to hit to matter. Maybe a conscript screen for Valhallans to make them more annoying to remove, but I'm kind of grasping at straws here. Am I missing something with this?

Bullgryn has legs open etc. It's pretty much impossible to physically block LOS to model with another model. Put rhino looking at enemy. Put infantry model behind that's shorter than rhino. Out of LOS? Nope. You get line BELOW rhino.

If there's even 1mm shown from some part of enemy(including base) to your model(including base) then you are in LOS.

As for idea for using it to shield custodians...I would wait for FAQ before investing any cash over that combo

A very niche use might be that you could increase the chance of enemy plasma overloading. Could be nice if the enemy focussed a lot on plasma

I don't like that the strat they preview is pretty much useless for pure guard, and is great for souping them in. Not sure it bodes well for the rest of their supplement.

 grouchoben wrote:
I don't like that the strat they preview is pretty much useless for pure guard, and is great for souping them in. Not sure it 0.

So far this PA is a pile of s...t. Least fun army to play against in the game, Tau, get great stuff, other two armies get pure junk...

It most def does NOT bode well for the rest of the supplement... I was expecting somehin along these lines, but not so badly... Let's hope the rest proves this hunch wrong

The new bulgryn strat is actually useful on scions. Scions also want to be on the front lines and usually once they drop die horribly. This allows you to drop in behind your bullgryn and have an extra layer of durability from shooting.

On normal infantry and characters though that strat is useless. Eliminators and assassins don't care about the hit mod really, at least not on such squishy targets, and you can get an entire infantry squads for less then one bulgryn.

Nah this strat was made for scions but will be abused by soup 9/10 times.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/the-greater-good-astra-militarum-faction-focusgw-homepage-post-4/

Lots of new stuff.

Tank Aces, which is like the Tyranid Phsyiological Adaptations, I dont know if giving up WLT would be worth the 2nd, as Grand Stratagist is pretty solid. Plasma Executioner with the -1 AP can blow through Marine Armor save and kill the primaris.

Super Heavies can get REgiment doctrines now, thats nice.

12 custom regiments would like to see what else they got.
This looks like a solid start so far.

Sentinel batteries are gonna be a thing I guess.

 Dynas wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/the-greater-good-astra-militarum-faction-focusgw-homepage-post-4/

Lots of new stuff.

Tank Aces, which is like the Tyranid Phsyiological Adaptations, I dont know if giving up WLT would be worth the 2nd, as Grand Stratagist is pretty solid. Plasma Executioner with the -1 AP can blow through Marine Armor save and kill the primaris.

Super Heavies can get REgiment doctrines now, thats nice.

12 custom regiments would like to see what else they got.
This looks like a solid start so far.

Sh's get doctrine ifyou give up wlt though

My Baneblade ran with Pask and 2 Tank Commanders in a Supreme Command, so it got Regiment traits anyway.

That Sentinel stratagem looks really tempting with Plasma cannons. Even non-tallarn Sentinels would have perfectly safe plasma on the move. And also hunter killer missiles hitting on 2+ (if standing still or Tallarn): yes please!

Stormtroopers got tasty alternative regiments. Not sure how competive but i like each kill counts as 2 in morale.

https://www.facebook.com/warhammer40000uk/posts/2543946549259302

Valorous heart sisters will dread extra ap lasguns. -3 lasguns? Bejezus. That's hard counter to valorous heart right there

IMO, the additional -1 AP doctrine is by far the best. Most of the others are too situational.