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 Trickstick wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
1x Vanquisher LR

Unfortunately, the Vanquisher is horrible these days. However, it makes a really good model to represent the Hammer of Sunderance, a relic battlecannon from the Vigilus Defiant book. The Hammer of Sunderance is really good and makes a great tank commander HQ for your army.

Saved / is Vigilus Defiant tournament legal/used often?

Just checked the rules and it looks great! I'll use that (and its for any regiment)


Thank you

Bluflash wrote:
Looking at wilderness survivors:

If I move normally during the movement phase, then "Move, Move, Move" in the shooting phase, do the infantry still get cover?

Wilderness survivors specifically says the units that "did not advance in the previous movement phase" get benefits of cover.

Sounds like it would still work. But I bet you can expect an FAQ incoming to nerf that, just cuz.

Looking at the greater good strategem "experiences eyes" I'm thinking a bit about putting a veteran squad with three flamers and a heavy flamer in a chimera... The +1 AP seems quite nice on those to me and assuming "bring it down" or if you are catachan "burn them out" being ordered they should be able to make quite some damage. I'm just really undecided if it is a sensible investment. Roughly calculating the combo should kill around 6 MEQs on average. What is your opinion on that?

 Colonel Cross wrote:

Bluflash wrote:
Looking at wilderness survivors:

If I move normally during the movement phase, then "Move, Move, Move" in the shooting phase, do the infantry still get cover?

Wilderness survivors specifically says the units that "did not advance in the previous movement phase" get benefits of cover.

Sounds like it would still work. But I bet you can expect an FAQ incoming to nerf that, just cuz.

Doubt it.

Its a pretty obviously intentional. 'Move! Move! Move!' is probably one of the most well know and used AM orders and 'Wilderness Survivors' rule specifically mentions advancing in the movement phase in an army known for it's infantry advancing in the shooting phase.

Maxzero wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:

Bluflash wrote:
Looking at wilderness survivors:

If I move normally during the movement phase, then "Move, Move, Move" in the shooting phase, do the infantry still get cover?

Wilderness survivors specifically says the units that "did not advance in the previous movement phase" get benefits of cover.

Sounds like it would still work. But I bet you can expect an FAQ incoming to nerf that, just cuz.

Doubt it.

Its a pretty obviously intentional. 'Move! Move! Move!' is probably one of the most well know and used AM orders and 'Wilderness Survivors' rule specifically mentions advancing in the movement phase in an army known for it's infantry advancing in the shooting phase.

You say that as if GW didn't accidentally give Meganobz a 2++ one time.

Honestly I wish MMM would be deleted. It seems to be the root cause of so many problems.

Would you all say that a Manticore is a must-have due to the Support Tank Ace abilities and the +1 to hit (visible enemy only) Strategem? Or would you say that they're tied in utility with bringing a second Basalisk in an Emperor's Wrath Artillery detachment?

I've already got a Basalisk, three Russes (2 BC, 1 Demo) and two Tank Commanders, so I want to know how much more vehicle I need.

Arcanis161 wrote:
Would you all say that a Manticore is a must-have due to the Support Tank Ace abilities and the +1 to hit (visible enemy only) Strategem? Or would you say that they're tied in utility with bringing a second Basalisk in an Emperor's Wrath Artillery detachment?

I've already got a Basalisk, three Russes (2 BC, 1 Demo) and two Tank Commanders, so I want to know how much more vehicle I need.

Manticore is way less CP intensive, but it's only going to fire at most 4 times, and has way less ways to boost accuracy. You also need ways to reroll the shot, because I've tried manticores in non Catachan lists before and rolling something like 4 shots hurts, especially since you're relying on this to be a hammer of Sunderance that ignores LoS. I wouldn't bank on the +1 BS if you can see the target much, maybe if you were Tallarn I could see it. Issue being manticores die fast, if the opponent can see it it's dead. Also remember manticores trade ap3 for that s10, very helpful vs Chaos knights and T5 targets like thundercav.

Basilisk is way more consistent and shoots longer, but does less damage. This is countered by the fact that it gets way better accuracy (aerial spotters) and it can match the manticores rate of fire but we're talking 6 cp just to setup the first barrage between artillery formation, tank Ace, aerial spotters, and the fire again strat. Guard may have CP to burn but that's a bit excessive. It also has twice the range if that matters but S9 is inconvenient for a weapon with that flat 3 damage.

For what it's worth, manticores are easier to hide. And most likely neither of these tanks are living very long. Most likely they'll get 1 to 2 volleys before your opponent realizes what is going on and prioritizes it, most likely once he's dealt with your demolishers and hammer. I feel it depends on the list, but the manticore in the right regiment is probably more powerful than the basilisk in it's best regiment.

If you're planning on multiple artillery pieces, basilisks are a lot more consistent and with the 2d6 drop lowest shots do very well for regiments that don't have a reroll ability like cadians. That way they can just take advantage of their regiment ability like cadians hit bonuses or Valhallans better damage table. I feel like the manticore is better as a "I've got one slot for artillery and not a ton of points, but need as much bang for the buck as possible."

The Manticore is certainly the more efficient use of the support ace max damage ability because as Moustaffa has pointed out there's no additional CP tax to get extra shots.

I am going to be taking a Master of Ordnance while I test out the new custom regiment rules with Gunnery Experts, which seems like its going to be great on both the Manticore and Basilisk. The MoO is just a no brainer now I think even in a Cadian list, with 6 Basilisk-lite shots at BS3+ for only 30 pts and 1 CP, on top of the re-roll aura.

I'm weighing up whether to take a Wyvern personally at the moment alongside my Manticore and two Basilisks in my EW Artillery Battalion as trash clearance. Got the idea having read a few pages back on the shield drone debate, having looked at the numbers It looks like it can kill 8-9 Shield Drones in the first turn. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to play the infamous Riptide/Drone list yet at my local so I don't know how disruptive that would be to a Riptide spam list along with everything else unloading as well

Shame about the 36" limit on the MoO though, it really hurts the usefulness of that ability. To get it to work you really have to put it in a corner. Plus if you want to use it you may have to give up shooting on something really vital that is about to hit your line. I think I would use a MoO in a wrath company, but not normally.

MOO are there for the bang not the buff. Remember they are infantry so a CC can give them orders.

A Cadian MOO can hit on a 2+ with overlapping fields of fire and rerolls 1s to wound with an order.

 Trickstick wrote:
Shame about the 36" limit on the MoO though, it really hurts the usefulness of that ability. To get it to work you really have to put it in a corner.

Am I the only person that always forms a geometrically sound parking lot at the most extreme corner of the board with my artillery?

Its something I do in competitive games, anyways. In casual games I prefer the battery to look visually interesting.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

The Manticore is certainly the more efficient use of the support ace max damage ability because as Moustaffa has pointed out there's no additional CP tax to get extra shots.

I am going to be taking a Master of Ordnance while I test out the new custom regiment rules with Gunnery Experts, which seems like its going to be great on both the Manticore and Basilisk. The MoO is just a no brainer now I think even in a Cadian list, with 6 Basilisk-lite shots at BS3+ for only 30 pts and 1 CP, on top of the re-roll aura.

I'm weighing up whether to take a Wyvern personally at the moment alongside my Manticore and two Basilisks in my EW Artillery Battalion as trash clearance. Got the idea having read a few pages back on the shield drone debate, having looked at the numbers It looks like it can kill 8-9 Shield Drones in the first turn. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to play the infamous Riptide/Drone list yet at my local so I don't know how disruptive that would be to a Riptide spam list along with everything else unloading as well

A single Mortar HWS with the Concentrated Fire Stratagem is 3D6 str 4 attacks that hit on 3+ with +1 to wound for 45 points.

Wyvern is really hard to justify.

Edited by mistake mine, nevermind

Haldawe wrote:
Only want to notify that with the new errata, they have changed the demolisher cannon from 1D6 shots to 1 shot on all chasis (I guess because of the 12 shot strat)

Can you point out where you saw this? It does not seem correct.

 Trickstick wrote:

Haldawe wrote:
Only want to notify that with the new errata, they have changed the demolisher cannon from 1D6 shots to 1 shot on all chasis (I guess because of the 12 shot strat)

Can you point out where you saw this? It does not seem correct.

Because it is incorrect, my bad xD was checking all errata and somehow managed to read that wrongly

Haldawe wrote:
Edited by mistake mine, nevermind

Had me worried for a sec lol

Haldawe wrote:
Because it is incorrect, my bad xD was checking all errata and somehow managed to read that wrongly

No sweat, it happens. Did make me reread them in confusion though.

(-:

Maxzero wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

The Manticore is certainly the more efficient use of the support ace max damage ability because as Moustaffa has pointed out there's no additional CP tax to get extra shots.

I am going to be taking a Master of Ordnance while I test out the new custom regiment rules with Gunnery Experts, which seems like its going to be great on both the Manticore and Basilisk. The MoO is just a no brainer now I think even in a Cadian list, with 6 Basilisk-lite shots at BS3+ for only 30 pts and 1 CP, on top of the re-roll aura.

I'm weighing up whether to take a Wyvern personally at the moment alongside my Manticore and two Basilisks in my EW Artillery Battalion as trash clearance. Got the idea having read a few pages back on the shield drone debate, having looked at the numbers It looks like it can kill 8-9 Shield Drones in the first turn. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to play the infamous Riptide/Drone list yet at my local so I don't know how disruptive that would be to a Riptide spam list along with everything else unloading as well

A single Mortar HWS with the Concentrated Fire Stratagem is 3D6 str 4 attacks that hit on 3+ with +1 to wound for 45 points.

Wyvern is really hard to justify.

Mortars will average 10.5 shots.

Wyvern with full magazines will average 18 shots

Same to wound agaisnt shield drones if mortars spend a CP

Mortars hit on 3+ with a CP, wyverns get rerolls to wound.

They can compete against each other. If you need 1 a list should have both.

If you really need the mortars then the wyvern can shoot twice for 2 CP and dump out an average of 36 shots.

Yeah can't help but feel the wyvern is the better choice there as much as I dislike the model.

Depending on your terrain the mortar teams may be much easier to hide out of LOS though, the Wyvern is quite tall.

I am creating an aircav army at the moment with three detachments:

1. Tempestus, Primes and Officers of the Fleet riding Valkyries
2. Airwing with Vulture, two thunderbolts and possibly a lightning
3. Fast attack detachment with 3 Lascannon Taurus Venators, a Hellhound and a Cyclops.

Now the Tempestus got some shiny new regimantal traits which make them very happy, but I am not certain at all what to do with the other detachments. Does it care for the airwing, is a regiment any use to them (perhaps for a strategem?) And is there anything better to choose for the Fast attack detachment then Gunnery expert (Reroll for the Hellhound and Cyclops) and Jury-Rigged?

Not sure will I ever create this but on facebook group there was photo of guy playing with 240 infantry model. So......I started looking at what sort of infantry mess I can create...

So start wit 3 battallions. First one has 2 company commanders, 6 infantry squads with lascannon and 3x3 mortar teams.

Second bat. Company commander, lord commisar, 2x30 conscript, 4 infantry squads with lascannon. 3 platoon commanders

Third bat. Scion one with extra AP trait. 2 primes, 6x10 scions, 2 command squad, all with volley shot guns.

This adds up to 1806(really I only added lascannons when I realized how little points I had spent yet...).

For 2k...dunno. Swap command squads to melta guns for deep strike AT busters...

The amount of bodies(246 I think) and shots(if it gets into range and replace all scions with infantry squads would be outshooting my ~100 sister army if I were stupid enough to march into range of every lasgun...) is just insane.

Tanks would have field day though. And numarines probably shoot them off board no problemo.

I might be able to upgrade one bat to brigade. Extra HQ, 3 fast attack so guess 3 sentinels.

Now to win a lottery to afford all that...

In the dark days of 7th I was creeping up to 200 infantry in some games, along with the other infantry heavy players if I remember right. What I found was the biggest tactical issue wasn't firepower or staying power (at least if I wasn't fighting triptide) the biggest issue was fitting ten pounds of gak in a 5pound deployment zone.

You basically hit a point where you just don't have room to put squads down optimally. Squads start getting out in buildings, in corners, wherever you can find a space, just to get them out of the way. You have firepower, but you can't concentrate it. You have numbers, but you can't bring them to bear so you're defeated in detail. That said good luck to any opponent, even numarines, in chewing through all that. Especially if you took Valhallans or the new cover regiment.

Stormtroopers are definitely critical. I would take a full batallion of them if nothing else to just free up deployment space.

How far do you get to move with the rapid redeploy stratagem from emperors blade assault companies?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
In the dark days of 7th I was creeping up to 200 infantry in some games, along with the other infantry heavy players if I remember right. What I found was the biggest tactical issue wasn't firepower or staying power (at least if I wasn't fighting triptide) the biggest issue was fitting ten pounds of gak in a 5pound deployment zone.

You basically hit a point where you just don't have room to put squads down optimally. Squads start getting out in buildings, in corners, wherever you can find a space, just to get them out of the way. You have firepower, but you can't concentrate it. You have numbers, but you can't bring them to bear so you're defeated in detail. That said good luck to any opponent, even numarines, in chewing through all that. Especially if you took Valhallans or the new cover regiment.

Stormtroopers are definitely critical. I would take a full batallion of them if nothing else to just free up deployment space.

Yeah that's why I took like 70 of the storm troopers. That's quite a lot of bodies that don't have to be in deployment zone.

One regular battalion could be tallarn for more outflanking fun. Other maybe catachan with sraken and couple priests.

Oh yeah I noticed. Pure infantry is very interesting right now because you have so few slots to work with. Without platoons, it's surprisingly difficult to pack guardsmen in without resorting to conscripts. Part of why I wish we had kept that system but I understand why it's gone. Filling out formations with platoons would have been a lot harder, especially since you'd be buying 4 units now that the command squad is split from it's commander.

Question is which regiments and abilities you go for. And really there's a lot of good answers

1. Catachans provide solid melee that you absolutely want in order to survive melee deathstars as well as LD and really good characters.

2. Cadians provide good fire support, and Creed really comes into his own in a Cadian guardsmen line.

3. Valhallans have somewhat usable conscripts and the ability to knock stuff out of combat, as well as morale mitigation.

4. Mordians offer orders for sniping, better overwatch, and LD.

5. Tallarn for mobility and flanking

6. Custom regiment for durability and better firepower since you'll have so many lasguns.

Really the only regiments that don't do much is Vostroyan and armegeddon. The question is which does the most for you and how you want to play. I feel the best option is the custom regiment for cover and rapid fire, but you could make strong arguments for many combos, and that's ignoring stormtroopers entirely, which are also strong.

Other than that, every squad gets a heavy weapon, at least a missile launcher, and with that many squads I'd say vox casters are probably worth it, so that your officers can be spread out but concentrate all their orders on the flank that matters most. Other than that, priests are mandatory just to double your melee and commissars might be worth it due to how much morale you'll roll. Lasguns handle anything t5 or under, missile launchers and lascannons handle the big things by volume, and you just hope your stormtrooper doom drop can actually fit somewhere useful

Hi folks!

Playing in a narrative escalation campaign. Every month your army grows by 250, and you cannot change a thing from the previous one, you have to build on top. For the 500 and 750 I brought a more or less fun, narrative list (CC left alone on the crumbling planet, gathers troops around him, so no Sunderance Commander, only viable unit I have is a hellhound). I got Tyranids next turn, and he is an old friend of mine, and I really want to maximize my list against him from my 250 (345 actually, I used a vindicare, and since I used the strat during deployment, it's not in my list per se). No detachment constraints, fix 11 CP. My list for the 750 as follows (keep in mind, so far this was narrative and fun):

Catachan WL Trait Company Commander with Marmorth Tuskblade
Commissar
Priest

6 Bullgryns
Hellhound
Scout Sentinel

1 infantry squad
1 inf squad w/ autocannon
1 veterans squad w/ flamer
vindicare (as said, optional)

Nid guy brought 2 fly tyrants, 6-7 warriors, 1x3 ripper swarm, 1*20 hormagaunts previously, kraken hive fleet. Used flyrants for distraction, rushed objective with others.

Next mission will be on a regular 6*4, we start from the same side of a river, one bridge, have to melee the objective on the other side for points. FLY units cannot melee it, and no one is permitted to deploy outside the zone, no deep strikes. How would you approach it? Let's say I have every single unit available. (My fun tactic was to dick around with everyone until the bullgryns get in close with the HH and priest and maul everything.)

I thought of a valkyrie, maybe an inquisitor or Culexus against smite spam, and use the remaining 100-120 for kitting out the valk and a) putting some heavy firepower in it in the form of a veteran unit, or b) something othe than the bullgryns I can use for blocking the bridge, even though Kraken will get there before me with the 3d6 advances.

How would you approach this? I'm down for any cheesy mono IG stuff from these 345 that will help me win this game.

Keep in mind you still need to pay for assasin. You don't get him for free. You do get to choose WHICH assasin you take with the stratagem so can choose one suited for opponents army.

tneva82 wrote:
Keep in mind you still need to pay for assasin. You don't get him for free. You do get to choose WHICH assasin you take with the stratagem so can choose one suited for opponents army.

Not in narrative play, that is only a rule in matched play.

tneva82 wrote:
Keep in mind you still need to pay for assasin. You don't get him for free. You do get to choose WHICH assasin you take with the stratagem so can choose one suited for opponents army.

He made the point actually, he took the assassin via stratagem which means it isn't in the list so he can make the decision to drop it for the next step up, and use 250pt+95pt=345pts instead of 250pts and keeping the assassin