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What draws you to Guard? There are so many choices that it may help to narrow things down. Unless you just want to know what will be best. I guess a 500pt Scion army would be very good. A few squads mixed in with Taurox primes for fire support.

Yeah Scions are ok for me, i just want the best indeed

Outside of being compeitive, i really enjoy comissar models, Is it possible to fit him int he list?

Thanks again !

I don't know how well a Commissar would fit, as it can't drop and with small squads they are not that useful. However, the Commissars are trained with the scions and are pretty much the same organisation. There is a decent fluff reason to use a commissar model conversion for a Tempestor Prime.

Nice, thanks

Would you, please, just show me an example of list (for 500) in order to know which weapons are good, which unit will come in deep strike, etc. ?

HeavenLord wrote:
Nice, thanks

Would you, please, just show me an example of list (for 500) in order to know which weapons are good, which unit will come in deep strike, etc. ?

Just off the top of my head, without doing any actual points:

Tempestor with rod,
2x10 man with Plasmaguns, maybe vox
2x Taurox prime with some sort of guns, people seem to like the gatling/hotshot combo
Something else maybe if there is the points (maybe ratlings)

Problem is you can only reserve half of your army, so you would need a 3rd unit on the board if you wanted to drop the tempestor and 2x squads. Vox would let you drop the 2 squads further apart, as the tempestor's 6" order range would go up to 18" and give you a lot more options.

I don't even know how many points this is, I'm only guessing it is somewhere under 500. You could easily add some ratlings as your final unit if there are points, as they make great infiltrators. You could probably shave the 10 man squads a bit if needed, I just like to have some bodies to take wounds.


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Tempestor Prime w/ Rod and power sword/maul
2x 8 man Scions w/ 4x plamsa and vox
2x Taurox Prime w/ gatling/volleys/stormbolter
6x Ratlings

500 points. No idea if it is good as I haven't played yet, just something I would try. Ratlings could get deleted early depending on how you use them.

Edit: Threw it up on the army list board, so as not to take this thread over.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730052.page#9448735

Something I intend to do with my own Start Collecting: Scions is to use the Lord Commissar in the Taurox Prime with a 5 man squad equipped with one Flamer, one Hot-Shot Volley Gun, and Plasma pistols for the Sergeant and the Commissar. The plan being driving the Taurox as close as possible to the enemy's support units and drop them off turn two to shoot with all the power I can. That's a way to field a Commissar while still being with his men, the Lord is quite good in CC too.

And I'll be using the deep strike Command Squad with Tempestor Prime with two Plasma guns and two Meltaguns to kill whatever needs killing, preferably warlords and light vehicles.

Hmm Trying to debate the uses of Elysian Drop Troops vs Miltarum Tempestus Sions.

I think Command to Command Squad the Elysians are much better.

But as far as troops go the Sions are much better.

Elysians Command are a couple points cheap per models and unless they errata it (Or fix the typo) they rock a 3 Damage Plasma gun. Like Sions you only have to take 4 in the command and Have the same BS. In addition the Elysians have 2 points higher LD (REALLY?) I really see no reason to take a Tempestus Command Squad over an Elysian one.

Now as Troops Sions are much better Rocking +1 BS, The ability to take 4 Special weapons to the Elysian's 1 or take a smaller Group in general at 5 troops to the required 10 of the EDT. However they are much more expensive then the EDT and -1 LD.

A few other things to note. If I am reading this right you can take an Officer of the Fleet as an EDT to let you reroll 1s vs a target unit within 18" (And since he gains the Arial Drop ability that's pretty easy to set up).

So about Command Squads. I've yet to play 8th edition, but I'm slowly rebuilding my old Guard lists.

I want to use my Command Squads in support of my DKoK infantry squads. Basic setup would be a Regimental Standard, a meltagun to use that nice BS3+ and 2 meatshields. It's Krieg, so all the infantry is expected to be advancing on the enemy lines instead of cowering in cover.

How do I keep my Command Squads alive? They seem incredibly attractive targets, and even with a single casualty I'm testing morale on a 5-.

 schadenfreude wrote:
It's so hateful that it is beautiful.

The Cyclops looks like it will make up for the way airborne suicide demolition squads are way less exciting than in 7E.

What? So can you put 12 Cyclops in a Valkyrie? That would be fun.

Any news on rapier laser destroyers? I've got a few converted ones lying around.

Nemo84 wrote:
So about Command Squads. I've yet to play 8th edition, but I'm slowly rebuilding my old Guard lists.

I want to use my Command Squads in support of my DKoK infantry squads. Basic setup would be a Regimental Standard, a meltagun to use that nice BS3+ and 2 meatshields. It's Krieg, so all the infantry is expected to be advancing on the enemy lines instead of cowering in cover.

How do I keep my Command Squads alive? They seem incredibly attractive targets, and even with a single casualty I'm testing morale on a 5-.

Unfortunately, there is not really any way to keep them alive, since they are not characters, so they will probably be killed right away. 5 man squad with 1 wound, toughness 3 and 5+ save is just easy first blood.

 DoomMouse wrote:
What? So can you put 12 Cyclops in a Valkyrie? That would be fun.

Any news on rapier laser destroyers? I've got a few converted ones lying around.

36" range, str 12, -4 ap, deals 1d6 dmg (roll a d6, deals 2d6 on 3-5, and 3d6 on 6). Cost about as much as 3 heavy weapon teams with las cannons, is toughness 5 with 3 wounds and 3+ save.

Overall heavy weapons team is probably superior, though its not an extremely terrible choice to use your rapiers instead.

12 cyclops would be 480 points and probably all kill each other if you tried to use them. Now 2 with a 10 man squad could work.

Well, they don't all have to get out at once (I think since each one is its own unit, they could even disembark at different locations on the same turn) so it probably would work for converting a Valkyrie into a bomber. Them being 480 points would still make the Valkyrie bomber a disproportionately juicy target though, so you would want to drop them ASAP.

One intresting idea i got, is that you can make a death korps assault army using the Gorgon Heavy Transporter

Load it up with 4 Infantry Squads, a command squad with regimental banner, 2 Commanders and Yarrick and you have one big and nasty assault unit (nobody will expect it!)

AND NOW FOR THE MOST IMPORTANT PART THAT EVERYONE HAS OVERLOOKED WITH DEATH KORPS

Death Korps heavy weapons teams can take heavy flamers!!!

So i totally believe that death korps can make an awesome agressive assault army, compared to the shooty normal guard.

Nemo84 wrote:
So about Command Squads. I've yet to play 8th edition, but I'm slowly rebuilding my old Guard lists.

I want to use my Command Squads in support of my DKoK infantry squads. Basic setup would be a Regimental Standard, a meltagun to use that nice BS3+ and 2 meatshields. It's Krieg, so all the infantry is expected to be advancing on the enemy lines instead of cowering in cover.

How do I keep my Command Squads alive? They seem incredibly attractive targets, and even with a single casualty I'm testing morale on a 5-.

Target saturation and having more important things for your opponent to shoot. Ironically those 2 meatshields you threw in help with that quite a bit. If he shoots at the unit he's "only" going to get 2 regular guardsmen, a flag, and maybe the melta if he's lucky. Most players will just shoot something else instead at that point.

If your opponent wants them dead they will die, it's that simple. Bring a few, maybe hide them behind a tank, and just ensure there's enough going on in your list that if the opponent does anything aside from throw the odd heavy bolter at them he's wasting shots that he should be devoting elsewhere, like your heavy weapon squads, artillery, stormtroopers, vets, etc.

So why arent anyone more hyped about Sabre Platforms with Searchlights? Those things are insane. They cost next to nothing and the buffs they bring are humongous. And seeing how the text is worded, the +1 to hit actually stacks with other searchlights. Who cares if Vendetta hits on 5+? 60pts of searchlights and it hits on 2+. Plasmas overheating? One searchlight and they cant do it anymore.

Incredible piece of equipment.

Blightstar wrote:
So why arent anyone more hyped about Sabre Platforms with Searchlights? Those things are insane. They cost next to nothing and the buffs they bring are humongous. And seeing how the text is worded, the +1 to hit actually stacks with other searchlights. Who cares if Vendetta hits on 5+? 60pts of searchlights and it hits on 2+. Plasmas overheating? One searchlight and they cant do it anymore.

Incredible piece of equipment.

Probably because they don't sell them anymore and most people can't be bothered to scratch build something.

Blightstar wrote:
So why arent anyone more hyped about Sabre Platforms with Searchlights? Those things are insane. They cost next to nothing and the buffs they bring are humongous. And seeing how the text is worded, the +1 to hit actually stacks with other searchlights. Who cares if Vendetta hits on 5+? 60pts of searchlights and it hits on 2+. Plasmas overheating? One searchlight and they cant do it anymore.

Incredible piece of equipment.

Indeed they are incredible, they are also all going to die in the first turn, and are first blood bait, better hope you can get your points back before then.

Blightstar wrote:
Incredible piece of equipment.

If your enemy had a squad of three marines and it gave them +1 to hit, how long would it be until you killed them?

I guess they could have some use against very melee heavy armies, when they can just sit behind a wall of conscripts. Against shooting armies I can't see them lasting long.

It is unfortunate that they're so fragile. On the one hand I guess we can only expect so much for 20 points, on the other hand it literally doesn't have a weapon and can't move, surely it could be bumped up to T5 or given a 3+ save.

Its 48" range though means that if you position it well, most of the things that can reach it are anti-tank weapons. So if you have some scarier things for those anti-tank weapons to shoot at, an opponent might overlook an unarmed 20 point model. You'll definitely want to bring spares in case one does die in the first turn though, and if you're not going first, deploy your vehicles to block line of sight so you'll get at least one use out of them (because you can move the blocking vehicle when it's your turn).

 ross-128 wrote:
It is unfortunate that they're so fragile. On the one hand I guess we can only expect so much for 20 points, on the other hand it literally doesn't have a weapon and can't move, surely it could be bumped up to T5 or given a 3+ save.

It's a giant glass searchlight. Throw a rock at it and it will break and be useless...


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Also, moving a vehicle kinda defeats the point if you take a -1 to hit.

The blocker and the buff target don't have to be the same thing. You can use something that won't care about moving, like a Hellhound (which you probably have for your fast attack slots), or something that's going to have to move anyway, like a Taurox Prime, as the blocker.

True but usually the tanks that want to roll out first turn are not near where I put safe backfield units. I guess I like to do attack flank/defend flank though, so ymmv.

For those interested, I've started a thread discussing every option and unit available to the AM. It's similar to a codex review, only, you know, without the codex!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730110.page#9449747

 Polonius wrote:
For those interested, I've started a thread discussing every option and unit available to the AM. It's similar to a codex review, only, you know, without the codex!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730110.page#9449747

Definitely watching this, i love indepth examinations like this. Stellar job!

Quick question how are people running sentinels? Are they using the scout or armored version and what weapons are being used? I need to field two to fill out my brigade detachment.

broxus wrote:
Quick question how are people running sentinels? Are they using the scout or armored version and what weapons are being used? I need to field two to fill out my brigade detachment.

I would just keep them as cheap as possible. I don't find any of the options particularly appealing, with them costing between 45-60 for a single heavy weapon. Almost any kind of fire support is better performed by other units (HWTs with orders, or tanks for survivability) in my opinion. But if you have extra points and can spend an additional 5-10 per Sentinel, sure, go for what you need to complement your other forces.

 Polonius wrote:
For those interested, I've started a thread discussing every option and unit available to the AM. It's similar to a codex review, only, you know, without the codex!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730110.page#9449747

I did rather like your 3.5 Codex review back in the day.

 Polonius wrote:
For those interested, I've started a thread discussing every option and unit available to the AM. It's similar to a codex review, only, you know, without the codex!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730110.page#9449747

Some corrections I would like to point out:
- In the autocannon entry you wrote that autocannons can instantkill heavy weapon teams. Instant-kills as a result of 2x strength compared to target toughness no longer exists in 8th. They will still die fast and everyone and his dog will aim all his heavy bolters at expensive and threatening autocannon, missile launcher and particularly lascannon squads (the main reason I think MLs and LCs are best hidden in infantry squads which also makes it easier to give them orders), not good as you are VERY likely to have to go 2nd when playing IG (unless you play a tank company)
- In the Missile Launcher entry you wrote that it's 15 points which makes it a questionable pick compared to the 20 point lascannon. Actually the ML costs 20 points as well on all AM units (and is as expensive as a Lascannon in every faction that can take them AFAIR)
- Gotta change the "Heavy flamer is priced between ML and lascannon" bit as well.

Otherwise a nice read and informative, looking forward to the unit breakdowns .

 Aenarian wrote:

broxus wrote:
Quick question how are people running sentinels? Are they using the scout or armored version and what weapons are being used? I need to field two to fill out my brigade detachment.

I would just keep them as cheap as possible. I don't find any of the options particularly appealing, with them costing between 45-60 for a single heavy weapon. Almost any kind of fire support is better performed by other units (HWTs with orders, or tanks for survivability) in my opinion. But if you have extra points and can spend an additional 5-10 per Sentinel, sure, go for what you need to complement your other forces.

The worst part is even the cheapest option for weapons is 10pts. To get a lascannon is only 10pts more. I have heard of people using the scout sentinel w/heavy flames to move into position and flame things first thing. The problem I see with that concept is I expect to never get first turn and plan to always go second to to my number of units. A scout sentinel is pretty useless as it will die in seconds to every gun. This leads me to believe that putting a gun on them that can use a range advantage seems the way to go. I am just not sure which weapon I should use. Multi lasers and auto cannons are terrible which leads me to choose from lascannons, missile launchers, and plasma cannons.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

- In the autocannon entry you wrote that autocannons can instantkill heavy weapon teams. Instant-kills as a result of 2x strength compared to target toughness no longer exists in 8th.
.

He meant that one shot instantly kills a HWT because autocannons deal 2 damage, not because of 2x strength of ye olden days.


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broxus wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:

broxus wrote:
Quick question how are people running sentinels? Are they using the scout or armored version and what weapons are being used? I need to field two to fill out my brigade detachment.

I would just keep them as cheap as possible. I don't find any of the options particularly appealing, with them costing between 45-60 for a single heavy weapon. Almost any kind of fire support is better performed by other units (HWTs with orders, or tanks for survivability) in my opinion. But if you have extra points and can spend an additional 5-10 per Sentinel, sure, go for what you need to complement your other forces.

The worst part is even the cheapest option for weapons is 10pts. To get a lascannon is only 10pts more. I have heard of people using the scout sentinel w/heavy flames to move into position and flame things first thing. The problem I see with that concept is I expect to never get first turn and plan to always go second to to my number of units. A scout sentinel is pretty useless as it will die in seconds to every gun. This leads me to believe that putting a gun on them that can use a range advantage seems the way to go. I am just not sure which weapon I should use. Multi lasers and auto cannons are terrible which leads me to choose from lascannons, missile launchers, and plasma cannons.

That's why I added the last sentence. I don't think either Sentinel is worth it, but a multilaser isn't as terrible as you make it sound. It's better than autocannons in one important way (namely, 50% more shots against people where double the damage doesn't matter), and a cheaper alternative to Plasma Cannons. It is an anti-light infantry weapon. A Plasma Cannon would also cost 10 points more because you need an armoured Sentinel.

The problem I see with Sentinels are still that they are very unappealing. You pay 55-60 points for a Lascannon. You could get a Rapier for 30% more, dealing over twice the amount of expected damage. Or a HWT for even more. Nonetheless, if I had to use them, I would either keep them as cheap as possible (Scout, multi-laser) to grab objective and deny deep strike, or go with Plasma Cannon on Armoured ones (because I like how they look). I guess you don't want any of the alternative fast attacks, or can afford them pointswise?