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 Aaranis wrote:
What's the thoughts about Primaris Psykers ? For 40 pts, having a Psyker with 2 powers looks good. And, as Sisters of Silence no longer hinder your own Psykers I'm considering adding one or two in my army. Wyrdvane Psykers look awful (and their models, ugh) and the Astropath looks like a very specific support, maybe to help some Snipers ? I already have a 7 points Omnispex to negate Cover.

I like using one astropath to buff the saving throw for Pask so that his tank gets a 2+ save.

gungo wrote:
In all honesty this is a weak nerf. I expected scions to go up in cost and plasmaguns to be nerfed across the board given how much better then grenade launchers and poorly melta works w deepstrike. Command squads isn't that big a deal as people said regular scion squads are still awesome.
And the match play undersized unit ruling is ripe for abuse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Colonel Cross wrote:
They also nerfed the crap out of the Void Shield Generator :( haha I was going to have some fun with that.

I read it quickly what got nerfed? Sounded like they completely removed the damage chart. How is that a nerf?

Halved the bubble to wholly within 6", reduced the invuln to 5+.

Requizen wrote:

 JB wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Regular scion squads hits no where as hard as a CS with 2 less special weapons and not very cost effective for suicide drop purposes. Still better than nothing lol

Why do you say that a regular scion squad has 2 less special weapons than a scion command squad? They can both take four.

Yeah we may very well see more maxed out Scion squads now for those 4 specials. Plus, bullet catchers are always nice.

I'd been leaning toward running them maxed even before the FAQ. Hot Shots are pretty solid this edition, depending on the matchup, and they can sometimes finish the job the plasma gunners started, especially if that job was hunting heavy infantry. I'll be running 2x10 with Prime in most lists.

RogueApiary wrote:

gungo wrote:
In all honesty this is a weak nerf. I expected scions to go up in cost and plasmaguns to be nerfed across the board given how much better then grenade launchers and poorly melta works w deepstrike. Command squads isn't that big a deal as people said regular scion squads are still awesome.
And the match play undersized unit ruling is ripe for abuse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Colonel Cross wrote:
They also nerfed the crap out of the Void Shield Generator :( haha I was going to have some fun with that.

I read it quickly what got nerfed? Sounded like they completely removed the damage chart. How is that a nerf?

Halved the bubble to wholly within 6", reduced the invuln to 5+.

Look at it from a tactical perspective, it is a nerf (not even talking about the bubble size) because with the damage chart your opponent had a valid tactical choice;
Shoot the VSG, do some damage and reduce it's effectiveness OR
Shoot the units it's protecting and deal with the increased invuln.

Now there's no point in shooting the VSG unless you intend to fully delete it -- there's no deliberate play to reduce its effectiveness.

One amusing thing is Elysians didn't get hit quite as hard by the command squad cap as Scions did, because they can unlock a command squad with a 30-point platoon commander (though that PC does take up an elite slot, which is likely to be a rather scarce resource if you're running drop squads).

In terms of cost breakdown for two full squads:
Elysian command squads: 60 points for 2 PCs, 56 points for 8 Elysian veterans, 56 points for 8 plasma guns, 172 points total.

Scion command squads: 80 points for two TPs, 72 points for 8 Scions, 56 points for 8 plasma guns, 208 points total. (but you do get 4+ armor)

Scion trooper squads: 40 points for one TP, 180 points for 20 Scions, 56 points for 8 plasma guns, 12 points for 10 hot-shot lasguns and 2 hot-shot laspistols, 288 points total (so you basically pay 80 points for 12 extra bodies with hot-shots)

Elysian Veteran squads: 40 points for CC, 140 points for 20 Elysian veterans, 42 points for 6 plasma guns, 222 points total.

Elysian SWS: 40 points for CC, 60 points for 12 Elysian infantry, 42 points for 6 plasma guns, 142 points (downside is, the SWS is BS4+)

Trying to figure out the best way to kill infantry at 36" range or longer. I was going to go with the Taurox Prime (so efficient it's crazy) but I don't like that I can't buff its ballistic skill at all, especially when it hits on 4+ if it moves.

Is there some way to buff the BS (or give re-rolls to) a Taurox Prime other than Yarrick?

I had planned to use defense searchlights to increase the Prime's ballistic skill but I see that they buff REGIMENT units, and I see that the Taurox prime has a REGIMENT of Tempestus and that apparently you can't choose for your REGIMENT to be Militarum Tempestus.

So what's a good long range infantry killer to use? Wyverns? Heavy Quad Launcher Batteries? I think I might like those better anyhow since I can grab what's his face to give re-rolls of 1 to hit to catachans, and I like catachans....but I just feel like the Taurox is just so ridiculously efficient

Mortar HWS are good if you can hide them out of LoS, and the Taurox Prime is still pretty good despite its inability to receive buffs.

The vast majority of our good anti-infantry options are within 24" range now though, because most of our blast weapons got changed to be mostly anti-tank and most of our long-range anti-infantry used to be blast weapons. So in general the best way to kill infantry as Guard now is to just get within 24" and hit them with lasguns (or a Punisher).

A cluster of Earthshaker platforms huddling around a Salamander Command Tank and Trojan Support vehicle might make good general-purpose fire support base though. Each Earthshaker would be rolling 2d6 dropping the lowest for shots (so should be getting around 4 most of the time), hitting on 3+ thanks to the Salamander, and re-rolling all misses thanks to the Trojan. So while it may not have the most volume of fire, the support auras it's getting sure would make it accurate. Much like the mortar teams you'll want to hide them somewhere out of LoS, especially since Earthshakers explode on 3+ for some reason.

If you have a lot of vehicles, one thing that can provide a bit of an anti-infantry boost at 36" is to stick a heavy stubber on everything that can take one. It's 3 S4 shots at 36" for just 4 points, it adds up.

Bit of a nerf in the FAQ. # of command squads can not exceed the # of officers.

No more scion command squad spam unless you also spam platoon commanders to issue take aim orders.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Bit of a nerf in the FAQ. # of command squads can not exceed the # of officers.

No more scion command squad spam unless you also spam platoon commanders to issue take aim orders.

Actually, Scion Command Squads need Tempestor Primes. Platoon Commanders only allow you access to normal Command Squads.

 MacPhail wrote:
I'd been leaning toward running them maxed even before the FAQ. Hot Shots are pretty solid this edition, depending on the matchup, and they can sometimes finish the job the plasma gunners started, especially if that job was hunting heavy infantry. I'll be running 2x10 with Prime in most lists.

That's what I've been running, and they've been all stars. Basic hotshot lasguns do work against heavy infantry, and 10 men with 4+ saves are tougher in 8th than you realize, especially if you can drop into cover.

Isn't military tempests a regiment so can't you name tempestus the regiment for the platoon commander

U02dah4 wrote:
Isn't military tempests a regiment so can't you name tempestus the regiment for the platoon commander

No.

Also cleared up in the FAQ, along with no regiments called Militarum Auxillia as well.

Loopstah wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Isn't military tempests a regiment so can't you name tempestus the regiment for the platoon commander

No.

Also cleared up in the FAQ, along with no regiments called Militarum Auxillia as well.

that one actually annoyed me. there's nothing OP or unfluffy about assigning officers to abhuman regiments. It seemed gamey, but it also was a good way to get a bit more out of some mid level units.

 ross-128 wrote:
Mortar HWS are good if you can hide them out of LoS, and the Taurox Prime is still pretty good despite its inability to receive buffs.

The vast majority of our good anti-infantry options are within 24" range now though, because most of our blast weapons got changed to be mostly anti-tank and most of our long-range anti-infantry used to be blast weapons. So in general the best way to kill infantry as Guard now is to just get within 24" and hit them with lasguns (or a Punisher).

A cluster of Earthshaker platforms huddling around a Salamander Command Tank and Trojan Support vehicle might make good general-purpose fire support base though. Each Earthshaker would be rolling 2d6 dropping the lowest for shots (so should be getting around 4 most of the time), hitting on 3+ thanks to the Salamander, and re-rolling all misses thanks to the Trojan. So while it may not have the most volume of fire, the support auras it's getting sure would make it accurate. Much like the mortar teams you'll want to hide them somewhere out of LoS, especially since Earthshakers explode on 3+ for some reason.

If you have a lot of vehicles, one thing that can provide a bit of an anti-infantry boost at 36" is to stick a heavy stubber on everything that can take one. It's 3 S4 shots at 36" for just 4 points, it adds up.

I think I'd sooner just take Harken and call my guys Catachan (which I certainly plan to do anyhow) to give re-rolls of 1 to the artillery. The Sabre defense searchlights can boost the ballistic skill of anything regiment, so the earthshakers are already set. But I think you're right that the Taurox prime is still more effective even without the ballistic skill buffs

I'm kinda liking my sentinel powerlifter again. Seems like a fun fluffy unit.

has it been mentioned(and i'm sorry if it has) that technically a tempestor prime cant issue any orders since it doesn't have the <Regiment> keyword?

scions also cant receive them...

is this just being ignored for now?

Voice of Command - This unit may issue one order per turn at the start of their shooting phase. Orders may only be issued to Infantry units within 6" of this unit that have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as this unit. To issue an order pick a target unit and choose which order you wish to issue from the ORDERS table. A unit may only be affected by one order per turn.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
has it been mentioned(and i'm sorry if it has) that technically a tempestor prime cant issue any orders since it doesn't have the <Regiment> keyword?

scions also cant receive them...

is this just being ignored for now?

Voice of Command - This unit may issue one order per turn at the start of their shooting phase. Orders may only be issued to Infantry units within 6" of this unit that have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as this unit. To issue an order pick a target unit and choose which order you wish to issue from the ORDERS table. A unit may only be affected by one order per turn.

The Militarum Tempestus are considered to be their own regiment as of page 10 of the Imperium 2 codex, so the Tempestor Prime can issue orders to other Tempestus Units.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
has it been mentioned(and i'm sorry if it has) that technically a tempestor prime cant issue any orders since it doesn't have the <Regiment> keyword?

scions also cant receive them...

is this just being ignored for now?

Voice of Command - This unit may issue one order per turn at the start of their shooting phase. Orders may only be issued to Infantry units within 6" of this unit that have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as this unit. To issue an order pick a target unit and choose which order you wish to issue from the ORDERS table. A unit may only be affected by one order per turn.

'Militarum Tempestus' is a <regiment>. You're just not allowed to choose it as the <regiment> for other units.

sorry guys, i misread that part.
i thought it was giving that as an example.
thanks for your help.

What do you guys think of this Mechanized + Scions list?

Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Pistol (built that way, will probably change later)

Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Meltas
Master of Ordinance

Scions, 2 Flamers
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 Meltas
Scions, 2 Plasmas

Hellhound Squad, 3 with Heavy Flamers

Manticore
Manticore

Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + HSVGs

MSU to the extreme, but should be able to play at almost all ranges - close up with dudes and Hellhounds, ranged with Manticores and Taurox Missiles.

Not sure if the Manticores/Hellhounds are better or worse than a Superheavy like a Knight or Shadowsword, but it is a lot less "eggs in one basket". Worried about the SHV getting one-shot if the meta shifts that way, this way the power is spread out across the army.

Requizen wrote:
What do you guys think of this Mechanized + Scions list?

Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Pistol (built that way, will probably change later)

Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Meltas
Master of Ordinance

Scions, 2 Flamers
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 Meltas
Scions, 2 Plasmas

Hellhound Squad, 3 with Heavy Flamers

Manticore
Manticore

Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + HSVGs

MSU to the extreme, but should be able to play at almost all ranges - close up with dudes and Hellhounds, ranged with Manticores and Taurox Missiles.

Not sure if the Manticores/Hellhounds are better or worse than a Superheavy like a Knight or Shadowsword, but it is a lot less "eggs in one basket". Worried about the SHV getting one-shot if the meta shifts that way, this way the power is spread out across the army.

Aren't you literally one troops and one Heavy away from a Brigade? Wouldn't it be worth dropping a Taurox or 2 for a manticore and more scions. To get all those extra CPs.

 Coyote81 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
What do you guys think of this Mechanized + Scions list?

Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Pistol (built that way, will probably change later)

Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Meltas
Master of Ordinance

Scions, 2 Flamers
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 Meltas
Scions, 2 Plasmas

Hellhound Squad, 3 with Heavy Flamers

Manticore
Manticore

Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + HSVGs

MSU to the extreme, but should be able to play at almost all ranges - close up with dudes and Hellhounds, ranged with Manticores and Taurox Missiles.

Not sure if the Manticores/Hellhounds are better or worse than a Superheavy like a Knight or Shadowsword, but it is a lot less "eggs in one basket". Worried about the SHV getting one-shot if the meta shifts that way, this way the power is spread out across the army.

Aren't you literally one troops and one Heavy away from a Brigade? Wouldn't it be worth dropping a Taurox or 2 for a manticore and more scions. To get all those extra CPs.

Won't he also need another two FA units?

 Coyote81 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
What do you guys think of this Mechanized + Scions list?

Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Rod
Tempestor Prime, Pistol (built that way, will probably change later)

Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Plasmas
Scion Command Squad, Meltas
Master of Ordinance

Scions, 2 Flamers
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 HSVGs
Scions, 2 Meltas
Scions, 2 Plasmas

Hellhound Squad, 3 with Heavy Flamers

Manticore
Manticore

Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + Autocannons
Taurox Prime, Missiles + HSVGs

MSU to the extreme, but should be able to play at almost all ranges - close up with dudes and Hellhounds, ranged with Manticores and Taurox Missiles.

Not sure if the Manticores/Hellhounds are better or worse than a Superheavy like a Knight or Shadowsword, but it is a lot less "eggs in one basket". Worried about the SHV getting one-shot if the meta shifts that way, this way the power is spread out across the army.

Aren't you literally one troops and one Heavy away from a Brigade? Wouldn't it be worth dropping a Taurox or 2 for a manticore and more scions. To get all those extra CPs.

True, could split up the Hellhound into 3 squads and then go that route. Didn't even realize, that might be extra good. Though in this force any CPs would really only be used for rerolls - min units generally die before having to take Morale and I don't care about interrupting charges.

Still, 6 extra rerolls is nothing to sneeze at. Though I think wonder if another Manticore might be a bit redundant? Maybe Wyverns or a LRBT might be more all-arounder, multiple Wyverns is pretty meh if you're going against, say, MSU or hordes.

That's a pretty nasty list. I think we're going to see tons of Scions with Taurox Primes supported with a knight. It's just too mean. Blob up your Taurox Primes and protect them with conscripts. Then deep strike your Scions in whenever you need em.

Hilariously, there is almost no Militarum Tempestus stuff on eBay right now haha. Which is sad because I wanted a start collecting box so I can make a few more kit bashes to make melta Kasrkin.

I think one Knight lists is asking to be countered. You run across a Pylon or Shadowsword and that's over 500 points gone in a round of shooting.

Requizen wrote:
I think one Knight lists is asking to be countered. You run across a Pylon or Shadowsword and that's over 500 points gone in a round of shooting.

As awesome as a Shadowsword is, it won't one-shot a Knight like everyone thinks it does. On average it will deal 10,5 wounds.
Though I'm sure you want to give it re-rolls of one to hit with Yarrick/Harker. Not to mention you'll throw a command point at it's number of hits roll.
With re-rolling the number of hits die using a command point and Yarrick/Harker, you get about 16 wounds on the titan on average.

And you can increase that by giving it Lascannon sponsons (who can benefit from his +1 to hit vs titanic).

However, this shows how much the Knight's Ion Shield helps him. A super-heavy without an invuln save (like the Stompa for instance) takes a bloody 16 wounds.
With Yarrick/Harker and re-rolling the hits roll, its 23.8 wounds!

So question about the Forge World Imperial Armour Index: Astra Militarum.

Thunderbolt. Can add up to 8 hellstrike missiles. (4? 8? I don't remember) These things aren't one shot?... You can fire 8 hellstrike missiles every turn?

Oversight? Busted as hell? Will you get your tires slashed if you try to play this?

ThePorcupine wrote:
So question about the Forge World Imperial Armour Index: Astra Militarum.

Thunderbolt. Can add up to 8 hellstrike missiles. (4? 8? I don't remember) These things aren't one shot?... You can fire 8 hellstrike missiles every turn?

Oversight? Busted as hell? Will you get your tires slashed if you try to play this?

I think they cost 20 points a piece though? Good luck keeping that thing alive if you spend so much on its weaponry, also I'm seeing it as able to take only 4, am I missing something?

Nah you're not missing anything. Fully loaded the thunderbolt is 270 points I think. But I honestly think the firepower might be worth the investment. It sports multiple autocannons, lascannons, and hellstrikes.

8 shots of S7 AP-1 2D
2 shots of S9 AP-3 D6
4 shots of S8 AP-2 D6

That's honestly super-heavy levels of dakka. AND with 15 wounds, toughness 7, 3+ save, and hard to hit, this thing is survivable as hell. And, unlike most flyers, it has BS3+ to hit, so it'll be as accurate as anything else in the army hitting on 4+

Am I overestimating this? It seems amazing.

(edit) oh and lets not forget it tries to repair itself every turn

With the (apparent) consensus being that outside of Vendettas and the sub-par Vanquishers, there isn't too much in the way of long range anti tank (barring lascannons in infantry squads) has anyone considered allying in space marine predator annihilators?

Seems like it could fit a tank hunter role in most people's forces.