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 vipoid wrote:
As a question, guys, what would you suggest for a Catachan-themed army?

Are there any weapons/units that would help cement that theme?

Likewise, are there any weapons/units I should avoid for them?

Flamers! Sentinels with chainsword cutter arms. Heavy Bolter (tree surgeons) heavy weapon teams.

Honestly massed flamers, supported by disposable bodies (i.e. ablative wounds) and orders to enable charge, fallback and burn

Im running 6 searchlights combined with 5 veteran units congalined to Harker for rerolling 1's. As well as a few units of scions with 4x plasma. The firepower is just amazing when you hit on 2's rerolling 1's and usually wounding on 2's rerolling 1's with orders.

Couple quick questions.

Is there anything with the Imperium keyword that gives +1 to hit other than the Salamander Command Vehicle and the Searchlights?

Following that, would Ratlings/Snipers with a +1 to hit do mortal wounds on a 5 or 6? Similar to how weapons with Gets Hot shooting at fliers explode on 1's and 2's?

RogueApiary wrote:
Couple quick questions.

Is there anything with the Imperium keyword that gives +1 to hit other than the Salamander Command Vehicle and the Searchlights?

Following that, would Ratlings/Snipers with a +1 to hit do mortal wounds on a 5 or 6? Similar to how weapons with Gets Hot shooting at fliers explode on 1's and 2's?

6+ on to wound not to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ross-128 wrote:
One amusing thing is Elysians didn't get hit quite as hard by the command squad cap as Scions did, because they can unlock a command squad with a 30-point platoon commander (though that PC does take up an elite slot, which is likely to be a rather scarce resource if you're running drop squads).

In terms of cost breakdown for two full squads:
Elysian command squads: 60 points for 2 PCs, 56 points for 8 Elysian veterans, 56 points for 8 plasma guns, 172 points total.

Elysian SWS: 40 points for CC, 60 points for 12 Elysian infantry, 42 points for 6 plasma guns, 142 points (downside is, the SWS is BS4+)

Without the rerolls factored in

Command squad 16.9 points per double tap hit

SWS with company commander 23 points per double tap plasma hit

Thanks for the advice regarding Catachan armies, guys.


I do have an unrelated question though: do any of you give your commanders stuff like power fists/swords?

 vipoid wrote:
As a question, guys, what would you suggest for a Catachan-themed army?

Are there any weapons/units that would help cement that theme?

Likewise, are there any weapons/units I should avoid for them?

If you can get your hands on some autorifle looking guns instead of the lasgun, maybe something from Victoria, you'll have a unique look to the basic troopers

Something like these http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/auto-gun-x5

 vipoid wrote:
For those who haven't seen yet, the new FAQs are out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

The most important one for us is this:

Page 10 – Astra Militarum Army List
Add the following rule:
‘Matched Play – Command Squads If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment> Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battleforged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.

So, no more spamming MT Command Squads unless you also plan to spam Tempestor Primes along with them.

In order for the MT Command Squad to get FRFSRF they would need to be given the order by a Tempestor Prime (who you'd probably deep strike in with them anyway) rather than a Company Commander due to the <Regiment> rule

To get the most bang from your buck it becomes a three part unit

1) Tempestor Prime with command rod (and two orders)
2) MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma guns
3) Scion squad of 5, 2 with plasma (Or squad of 10, 4 with Plasma guns)

24 (or 32) plasma gun shots hitting on 3+ for 166 points (or 228)

To be honest I'd go for the scion squad of 5 and save the points for another one of these (match play legal) 3 part units.

CaptainO wrote:

In order for the MT Command Squad to get FRFSRF they would need to be given the order by a Tempestor Prime (who you'd probably deep strike in with them anyway) rather than a Company Commander due to the <Regiment> rule

I don't understand how that relates to anything I wrote. Why would you even need FRFSRF with a command squad? Surely they'd all have special weapons anyway.

CaptainO wrote:

To get the most bang from your buck it becomes a three part unit

1) Tempestor Prime with command rod (and two orders)
2) MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma guns
3) Scion squad of 5, 2 with plasma (Or squad of 10, 4 with Plasma guns)

24 (or 32) plasma gun shots hitting on 3+ for 166 points (or 228)

To be honest I'd go for the scion squad of 5 and save the points for another one of these (match play legal) 3 part units.

I'd probably take a plasma pistol on the Scion sergeant.

Regardless, do you think the Prime is worth it? If you drop him and just have 2 Scion squads, then you lose some plasma shots but gain enough points for a HWS with Heavy Bolters.

Assuming a case where you supercharge plasma, which do you guys like better for orders for scions, FRFSRF or Take Aim?

 daedalus wrote:
Assuming a case where you supercharge plasma, which do you guys like better for orders for scions, FRFSRF or Take Aim?

Might depend a bit on what you're shooting at, though I'd say Take Aim would definitely be the default choice (especially against an enemy tough enough to require overcharged plasma).

CaptainO wrote:
In order for the MT Command Squad to get FRFSRF they would need to be given the order by a Tempestor Prime (who you'd probably deep strike in with them anyway) rather than a Company Commander due to the <Regiment> rule

To get the most bang from your buck it becomes a three part unit

1) Tempestor Prime with command rod (and two orders)
2) MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma guns
3) Scion squad of 5, 2 with plasma (Or squad of 10, 4 with Plasma guns)

24 (or 32) plasma gun shots hitting on 3+ for 166 points (or 228)

To be honest I'd go for the scion squad of 5 and save the points for another one of these (match play legal) 3 part units.

Spamming Command squads seems less fluffy than I'd like, but I wouldn't deny anyone the option. I'll probably run Primes with pairs of 5-man units w/ 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol each, maybe taking some up to 10 in bigger games to give them staying power. My hope is to run six of them (maybe not all with Primes) at 2000 points to deliver the Troops requirement for a Brigade. The remaining battlefield roles will be filled out with Adepta Sororitas: melta Dominions in Immolators, hand flamer Seraphim, heavy bolter Retributers, heavy flamer Retributers in Rhinos, and Exorcists, with Celestine and a Canoness rounding out the HQ and Imagifiers providing Elites. I should be able to reach my opponent with melta, plasma, heavy bolter, and missile fire on Turn 1, followed by massed bolter and flamer output on Turn 2, all with lots of re-rolls from aura buffs and extra phases from Acts of Faith.

Anyone tried fielding any of the assassins?

A guy earlier said a couple Eversors are essential for taking out enemy snipers.

So these things are placed more than 9 inches from an enemy model, but can't move when they come in, right? So they would shoot, and then attempt to charge in the assault phase? Is 3d6 reliable enough to hit someone 10 inches away? How likely are enemy snipers to be out in the open by themselves and not behind a screen of their own troops? You're spending 140 points banking on your opponent taking a bunch of out-on-the-field snipers. Do eversors make their points back easily even if they're not sniper-hunting?

Some rule clarification questions:

I keep hearing people saying that pistols give you +1 attack in combat. I don't see that. Do they mean you can fire the pistol even while in close combat so it's effectively "another attack?" You still have to shoot it in the shooting phase, right? And your "attack" stat in your stat block isn't changed, right?


Melta bombs seem really short ranged. From what I understand grenades act like any other ranged weapon but are limited to 1 per unit per turn. You can't throw them mid-charge and you can't throw them in melee, correct? Then how often do they even come into play? At 4 inches, I don't see an Eversor being able to throw one before charging considering he must start >9 inches away. And once in combat, I assume it's a suicide mission, people pile in, and eventually he dies and explodes.

 daedalus wrote:
Assuming a case where you supercharge plasma, which do you guys like better for orders for scions, FRFSRF or Take Aim?

Take Aim, I would say. Keep in mind that FRFSRF only applies to hotshot las, and you don't want to lose plasma to your own shooting.

 vipoid wrote:

Might depend a bit on what you're shooting at, though I'd say Take Aim would definitely be the default choice (especially against an enemy tough enough to require overcharged plasma).

Yeah, I think I agree with you there. It's probably the better way to go for anything that's not a suicide squad. FRFSRF MIGHT still be good against terminators while supercharging is a good idea, but that's about the only situation I can think of.

So I'm constructing a proper Ordo Xenos army, meaning an Inquisitor & retinue with a Deathwatch Kill Team and the meat of the force consisting of Storm Troopers(nope, no Latinicus Sillycus names, ain't happenin' GW) in Chimeras(the FW triple-HB version - and yes, I know they're "not optimal").

What I'm sticking on is how to arm my line Trooper squads. They'll be full size so I can take four special weapons(and yes, I know that's also "not optimal" but I won't be spamming command squads or MSU suicide units), and the consensus generally seems to be that plasma is king so far in 8th, but should I really be cramming four plasmaguns into every basic infantry unit in my army? I was considering going 2/2 plasma/melta which should in theory in combination with the HB output of the unit's Chimera let them handle any target.

 Yodhrin wrote:
So I'm constructing a proper Ordo Xenos army, meaning an Inquisitor & retinue with a Deathwatch Kill Team and the meat of the force consisting of Storm Troopers(nope, no Latinicus Sillycus names, ain't happenin' GW) in Chimeras(the FW triple-HB version - and yes, I know they're "not optimal").

What I'm sticking on is how to arm my line Trooper squads. They'll be full size so I can take four special weapons(and yes, I know that's also "not optimal" but I won't be spamming command squads or MSU suicide units), and the consensus generally seems to be that plasma is king so far in 8th, but should I really be cramming four plasmaguns into every basic infantry unit in my army? I was considering going 2/2 plasma/melta which should in theory in combination with the HB output of the unit's Chimera let them handle any target.

An anti xeno fighting force? Probably flamers are standard inquisitor style. but the question is what is your list missing and do you have enough of x y z to deal with a b c.

But generally plasma is good middle ground. enough shots to deal with general troops all the way up to desperation overcharge to knock a few wounds off tanks and MC.

 Yodhrin wrote:
So I'm constructing a proper Ordo Xenos army, meaning an Inquisitor & retinue with a Deathwatch Kill Team and the meat of the force consisting of Storm Troopers(nope, no Latinicus Sillycus names, ain't happenin' GW) in Chimeras(the FW triple-HB version - and yes, I know they're "not optimal").

What I'm sticking on is how to arm my line Trooper squads. They'll be full size so I can take four special weapons(and yes, I know that's also "not optimal" but I won't be spamming command squads or MSU suicide units), and the consensus generally seems to be that plasma is king so far in 8th, but should I really be cramming four plasmaguns into every basic infantry unit in my army? I was considering going 2/2 plasma/melta which should in theory in combination with the HB output of the unit's Chimera let them handle any target.

You might split your squads into all Plasma, all Melta, so each has a specific mission...

 Yodhrin wrote:
So I'm constructing a proper Ordo Xenos army, meaning an Inquisitor & retinue with a Deathwatch Kill Team and the meat of the force consisting of Storm Troopers(nope, no Latinicus Sillycus names, ain't happenin' GW) in Chimeras(the FW triple-HB version - and yes, I know they're "not optimal").

What I'm sticking on is how to arm my line Trooper squads. They'll be full size so I can take four special weapons(and yes, I know that's also "not optimal" but I won't be spamming command squads or MSU suicide units), and the consensus generally seems to be that plasma is king so far in 8th, but should I really be cramming four plasmaguns into every basic infantry unit in my army? I was considering going 2/2 plasma/melta which should in theory in combination with the HB output of the unit's Chimera let them handle any target.

I'd probably go 2/1/1 Plasma/Melta/Flamer.

Plasma are cheap, all-purpose weapons. Meltas are good against heavier targets. Flamers give you crowd-control (and are very flavourful).

Bluthusten wrote:
For my Catachans ill go lot of 5-man scions for the Guerilla-war feeling.

A Rambo-Scratchbuild Eversor fits perfect.

You are a genius! That is a great way to being back Sly Marbo.

 JB wrote:

Bluthusten wrote:
For my Catachans ill go lot of 5-man scions for the Guerilla-war feeling.

A Rambo-Scratchbuild Eversor fits perfect.

You are a genius! That is a great way to being back Sly Marbo.

Yes. You just found a use for my Marbo miniature that's been sitting in a box since 5th edition.

I just thought of something!

what about Command Squads loaded with snipers?

For 1 point more than Ratlings, you get +1 toughness, the same save in cover and, most importantly, the ability to recieve orders!

They can also benefit from Sgt. Harker by making the Catachans.
Reroll 1's to hit AND giving them re-roll 1's to wound (can become great if the re-roll is a 6 for that sweet extra mortal wound).

It's expensive and might be difficult with only 1 command squad per commander, but I think it can have potential!

 Yodhrin wrote:
So I'm constructing a proper Ordo Xenos army, meaning an Inquisitor & retinue with a Deathwatch Kill Team and the meat of the force consisting of Storm Troopers(nope, no Latinicus Sillycus names, ain't happenin' GW) in Chimeras(the FW triple-HB version - and yes, I know they're "not optimal").

What I'm sticking on is how to arm my line Trooper squads. They'll be full size so I can take four special weapons(and yes, I know that's also "not optimal" but I won't be spamming command squads or MSU suicide units), and the consensus generally seems to be that plasma is king so far in 8th, but should I really be cramming four plasmaguns into every basic infantry unit in my army? I was considering going 2/2 plasma/melta which should in theory in combination with the HB output of the unit's Chimera let them handle any target.

I'd like to echo this question. As I mentioned above, I'm building six Scions units for my Brigade Troops requirement, and I've got one unit that still up in the air in terms of equipment. Constrained by my collection, they are as follows:

5x Scions, 2x plasma gun, plasma pistol
5x Scions, 2x plasma gun, plasma pistol
5x Scions, 2x plasma gun, plasma pistol
5x Scions, 2x plasma gun, plasma pistol
5x Scions, 2x melta gun
5x Scions...

What does the last unit need to round out an all-comers list? I currently have one grenade launcher and one flamer (the Kasrkin models). I could easily build one more of either from my bitz box (or both, to have all options available). With four plasma squads and a melta squad, should the sixth squad run grenade launchers, flamers, or one of each? They'll be backed by Battle Sisters, so flamers and meltas are well covered and I'm leaning toward grenade launchers for that reason, but I also like the idea of plasma cracking a transport and flamers hosing down the survivors.

I can't invent a reason to ever take grenade launchers. I'm sad to say it, but plasma is too good for not enough price difference.

The problem with flamers is that you can't use them after deep striking. If you give them a ride, a flamer squad could be fun, but you can do that more cheaply (and effectively) with a SWS or a Command Squad or even a Vet squad.

I think I like meltas more than most people around here. I'd say more melta. Sadly, it and plasma are the only two options that really make sense for Scions.

Doctoralex wrote:
I just thought of something!

what about Command Squads loaded with snipers?

For 1 point more than Ratlings, you get +1 toughness, the same save in cover and, most importantly, the ability to recieve orders!

They can also benefit from Sgt. Harker by making the Catachans.
Reroll 1's to hit AND giving them re-roll 1's to wound (can become great if the re-roll is a 6 for that sweet extra mortal wound).

It's expensive and might be difficult with only 1 command squad per commander, but I think it can have potential!

I ran this last night, CCS snipers that were catachan, had sarn't Harker nearby for the first half of the game (re roll of 1s in shooting phase) and I would order bring it down on them every turn for the re rolls of 1 to wound. they survived the whole game against blood angels and they put 4 mortal wounds on Dante throughout the course of the game. This was just one game though, but that thinking is pretty solid tactic regardless, and better than the hobbit snipers.

While we're discussing Scions, I've got this army to try:

Oh for feths sake.

Well, I could swap out some of the plasmaguns for grenade launchers and hot shot volley guns for a bit more variety. I'd actually like to have some meltas, but finding the points for them is a pain.

If you have any advice or suggestions, I'm happy to hear them.

I presume you're not deep striking every Scion squad? You have a few too many for that. Maybe drop the couple that you're not DSing (assuming you don't have another purpose for them) and pick up another HWS (and your meltas) or something like that?

The only weak point I see here is that you don't really leave enough stuff on the table to soak damage from first turn shooting. Those sentinels won't last long on their own, and the chimeras are going to get the antitank pretty quickly.

 daedalus wrote:
I presume you're not deep striking every Scion squad? You have a few too many for that.

If/when I run six Scions and three Primes, I'll probably DS them all. That's nine deployments before I put anything on the table. There's no going first at that point, but you should get a good look at your enemy's armor and heavy infantry to inform your own deployment. On turn 1, DS everything you have. Maybe you get rapid fire range on a scary enemy unit, but even if you have to DS into your own deployment zones, you'll be set up opposite an ideal target. Alternatively, hold something until late to snag an objective. But I probably won't be putting then on the table during deployment.

 MacPhail wrote:

If/when I run six Scions and three Primes, I'll probably DS them all. That's nine deployments before I put anything on the table. There's no going first at that point, but you should get a good look at your enemy's armor and heavy infantry to inform your own deployment. On turn 1, DS everything you have. Maybe you get rapid fire range on a scary enemy unit, but even if you have to DS into your own deployment zones, you'll be set up opposite an ideal target. Alternatively, hold something until late to snag an objective. But I probably won't be putting then on the table during deployment.

Yeah, that's my preferred way of doing it. You can only deep strike half your deployments though. He's got a few too many squads to do all of them.