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IMO if you're gonna do lascannons on sentinels you should do several of them. Just one or two will set you up for disappointment. They only get one shot, which only hits half the time, and can't get orders to reroll 1s. A trio of armored sentinels with lascannons are basically a more expensive and more durable heavy weapons squad, but in the fast attack slot.

 jifel wrote:
What about Lascannons on Sentinels? Was thinking of using those just because solo platforms are annoying to kill. (I was thinking 4 to 6 Sentinels with Las/HK). Just Scout up into range then start plinking away.

Not a bad go. But depending on game type you might be giving up easy kill points if you run sentinels solo. Lascannons again, hitting on 4's.

If you want lascannons run Elysian Tarous. 15" movement. same wound and toughness but doesnt suffer the -1 after moving. Gets a 5++ save and can deepstrike.

 rhinoceraids wrote:

 jifel wrote:
What about Lascannons on Sentinels? Was thinking of using those just because solo platforms are annoying to kill. (I was thinking 4 to 6 Sentinels with Las/HK). Just Scout up into range then start plinking away.

Not a bad go. But depending on game type you might be giving up easy kill points if you run sentinels solo. Lascannons again, hitting on 4's.

If you want lascannons run Elysian Tarous. 15" movement. same wound and toughness but doesnt suffer the -1 after moving. Gets a 5++ save and can deepstrike.

Tauros are amazingly good, but I'm actually asking as a Genestealer Cult player... same stats so I figured this was the best place for it. Please ignore the fact that our Heavy Flamers and HK missiles cost more because... reasons? Anyways, my current list has 5 Scout Sentinels but I've yet to test it. Probably gonna start off with Lascannon/HK but I am sorely tempted by the idea of Heavy Flamers

I actually think the best thing to give armored sents is autocannons. You usually get at least one hit per sentinel, and they're five points cheaper than lascannons. I'd never give scouts anything more than a heavy flamer or multilaser, due to 4+ save being kinda bad for a vehicle.

Depends what you want them for. The honestly probably wont do much all game. Again Id run heavy flamers but your call.!

I find the scouts so much more valuable with their scout moves. Try to run them up and find cover before the match starts

What I'd use them for is as more durable heavy weapons teams. HWTs can be annihilated quickly by long-range shooting, while sentinels take a bit longer to take down and unlike most vehicles don't lose stats as they lose wounds.

That said, mortar spam HWTs looks downright amazing.

 Melissia wrote:
What I'd use them for is as more durable heavy weapons teams. HWTs can be annihilated quickly by long-range shooting, while sentinels take a bit longer to take down and unlike most vehicles don't lose stats as they lose wounds.

That said, mortar spam HWTs looks downright amazing.

In that case go for it. But maybe take them in groups of 2-3. Just to make it harder for you opponent to get some easy kills and to reduce drops.

 rhinoceraids wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What I'd use them for is as more durable heavy weapons teams. HWTs can be annihilated quickly by long-range shooting, while sentinels take a bit longer to take down and unlike most vehicles don't lose stats as they lose wounds.

That said, mortar spam HWTs looks downright amazing.

In that case go for it. But maybe take them in groups of 2-3. Just to make it harder for you opponent to get some easy kills and to reduce drops.

Agreed entirely.

 Melissia wrote:
What I'd use them for is as more durable heavy weapons teams. HWTs can be annihilated quickly by long-range shooting, while sentinels take a bit longer to take down and unlike most vehicles don't lose stats as they lose wounds.

That said, mortar spam HWTs looks downright amazing.

I never liked HWTs. Too easy to kill. That's why I embed 3:1 Heavy Bolters to Autocannons in my regular squads with a lascannon and 2 snipers in my 3 command squads. That said, I am really feeling HWT mortars. Doing the math, they really outperform Wyverns big time. Wow are they cheap!

Question on using Pask....

Seems like everyone still likes Paskisher. I was thinking Vanquisher cannon with lascannon and 2 MMs to kill off the tough stuff. Am I missing something?

Yeah, mortars are I feel the best way to use HWTs this edition.

For that matter-- take a single commander and three HWTs is 111 points, for +1CP, nine mortars, and a commander to give six of those HWTs rerolling 1s. Add a platoon commander and for 131 points you give all three rerolling 1s.

crimsondave wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What I'd use them for is as more durable heavy weapons teams. HWTs can be annihilated quickly by long-range shooting, while sentinels take a bit longer to take down and unlike most vehicles don't lose stats as they lose wounds.

That said, mortar spam HWTs looks downright amazing.

I never liked HWTs. Too easy to kill. That's why I embed 3:1 Heavy Bolters to Autocannons in my regular squads with a lascannon and 2 snipers in my 3 command squads. That said, I am really feeling HWT mortars. Doing the math, they really outperform Wyverns big time. Wow are they cheap!

Question on using Pask....

Seems like everyone still likes Paskisher. I was thinking Vanquisher cannon with lascannon and 2 MMs to kill off the tough stuff. Am I missing something?

Think the math says that a lascannon is actually better than a vaquisher. But use what you want. Vanq or punisher are both good.

Make sure to run him with meltas and a lascannon. Make use of the BS2

 rhinoceraids wrote:


Think the math says that a lascannon is actually better than a vaquisher. But use what you want. Vanq or punisher are both good.

Make sure to run him with meltas and a lascannon. Make use of the BS2

It depends on the target. Against T7 or less, the Vanquisher is better because S8 has the same chance to wound as S9, while the Vanquisher also has 2d6 pick highest for damage (2d6 pick highest is abut ~28% better than 1d6). However, when talking about T8, the Lascannon wounds 33% more (2/3 vs 1/2), so it is in fact better against these targets.

Bear in mind in order to get 2d6 pick the highest, normally you have to be using melta at super-short range. So it's pretty nice.

But you don't have to go either-or. Vanquishers can take hull lascannons, and almost always should

 Melissia wrote:
Bear in mind in order to get 2d6 pick the highest, normally you have to be using melta at super-short range. So it's pretty nice.

But you don't have to go either-or. Vanquishers can take hull lascannons, and almost always should

Well, it's mostly to prove that the Vanquisher is about as effective as a standard lascannon, whereas it can be argued it should be a little more exciting than one of the most common weapon in the IG arsenal. If a Lascannon is balanced for ~20 points, the Vanquisher is almost balanced for 25 if we're talking about them in a vacuum. Opportunity costs are a thing however, as instead of one hull lascannon and one "lascannon" in the turret, you could pay 15 points more and get two lascannons in the turret, granting you a 50% increase in firepower for <10% increase in cost.

8th game today. Once more, I tabled my opponent. I tried again 6x tempestus command squad + 6x tempestus prime with plasma pistol. Very effective units.
This was only 40% of my 2000 point list. And my 24 DKoK engineers --only 192pts-- were amazing. Did something like 6 wounds on Guilliman.

 Melissia wrote:
Bear in mind in order to get 2d6 pick the highest, normally you have to be using melta at super-short range. So it's pretty nice.

But you don't have to go either-or. Vanquishers can take hull lascannons, and almost always should

Against another Russ (T8, 3+ save), a Vanquisher will score an average of 0.94 wounds per turn. Compare that to the regular Battle Cannon, at 1.17 wounds per turn. Why take the Vanquisher when the regular old Battle tank is better against both infantry and tanks?
Or why take a Leman Russ at all, the Hellhound is much cheaper and will also inflict 1.17 wounds per turn against an enemy Leman Russ.
http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/06/astra-militarum-tank-weapons-40k-8th-ed/

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
8th game today. Once more, I tabled my opponent. I tried again 6x tempestus command squad + 6x tempestus prime with plasma pistol. Very effective units.
This was only 40% of my 2000 point list. And my 24 DKoK engineers --only 192pts-- were amazing. Did something like 6 wounds on Guilliman.

How did you run the combat engineers?

crimsondave wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What I'd use them for is as more durable heavy weapons teams. HWTs can be annihilated quickly by long-range shooting, while sentinels take a bit longer to take down and unlike most vehicles don't lose stats as they lose wounds.

That said, mortar spam HWTs looks downright amazing.

I never liked HWTs. Too easy to kill. That's why I embed 3:1 Heavy Bolters to Autocannons in my regular squads with a lascannon and 2 snipers in my 3 command squads. That said, I am really feeling HWT mortars. Doing the math, they really outperform Wyverns big time. Wow are they cheap!

Question on using Pask....

Seems like everyone still likes Paskisher. I was thinking Vanquisher cannon with lascannon and 2 MMs to kill off the tough stuff. Am I missing something?

I've used 1-3 mortar squads in every game. And sometimes plus a Wyvern. They are actually very handy. Dirt cheap, tons of range and out of LoS so very survivable, excellent psychological unit too.

With regards to Pask: I actually like to keep him cheap as he is typically #1 on my enemies Target Priority List. Also, if you want a Vanquisher, run the forge world version.

Melissia wrote:Yeah, mortars are I feel the best way to use HWTs this edition.

For that matter-- take a single commander and three HWTs is 111 points, for +1CP, nine mortars, and a commander to give six of those HWTs rerolling 1s. Add a platoon commander and for 131 points you give all three rerolling 1s.

Why use their orders to reroll 1s to hit when you can keep them within 6" of Harker and use their orders to reroll 1s to wound!

For those worried that guard are OP check out this after action report

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXaqrt9UPh4

World eaters tabled AM in 2/3 turns. Why you ask? Because the guy playing world eaters normally plays AM and knew the weaknesses.

CaptainO wrote:
For those worried that guard are OP check out this after action report

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXaqrt9UPh4

World eaters tabled AM in 2/3 turns. Why you ask? Because the guy playing world eaters normally plays AM and knew the weaknesses.

+1

Dude you need to spread this all over the forum. There is so much whining about guard it is driving me nuts.

Question on using Pask....

Seems like everyone still likes Paskisher. I was thinking Vanquisher cannon with lascannon and 2 MMs to kill off the tough stuff. Am I missing something?

Trying to decide how best to run him too. The Exterminator cannons seem like a decent choice. Range is great, hits supersonics on 3's and had solid board reach. Even a stock battle cannon seems like a good choice for him if you can get the # of hit rolls.

Punisher looks good too but the 24" range seems too limiting. I'm still finding LR tanks slow and ponderous, especially with -1 to hit on hull and sponsons.

I played with him yesterday using the Exterminator, hull LC and 2x plasmas. My dice were garbage with him (3 misses on the Exterminator cannon T1) but his dual orders to my 2x King Plasmas were worth it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, I don't know if you guys have already discussed this buy Hydras are amazing again.

Speaking of that, how are Vanquishers in this edition? Vanquishers are by far my favorite variant, but after looking over their stats, the main gun does not look too impressive compared to the battle cannon. Unless I am missing something. (I'm finally going to be playing my first game of 8th this Friday or next.)

 Cothonian wrote:
Speaking of that, how are Vanquishers in this edition? Vanquishers are by far my favorite variant, but after looking over their stats, the main gun does not look too impressive compared to the battle cannon. Unless I am missing something. (I'm finally going to be playing my first game of 8th this Friday or next.)

It's strange.

The main-gun has better damage 'spikes' than the Battlecannon, because of the 2d6/highest for damage, but the Battlecannon is more averagely reliable overall against every target type.

I think the Stygian variant is what you'll want to run, hits on 3's if you didn't move.

Honestly throwing 1 S8 shot at something just isn't cutting it, even against flimsy vehicles your best to-wound roll is a 3+ which I have been failing to do way more than rolling 4+'s to hit so far.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll keep my pask cheap - at least no sponsons. Right now he's the biggest target since he has to start closer than the bassies or the manticore to become effective.

Is pask targetable if there's something closer? I forgot to ask that in my last game and he got shot to pieces turn one so running him with some cheap fodder to take the hits sounds like a good plan if he falls under that shooting characters rule.

 necron99 wrote:
Yeah, I'm thinking I'll keep my pask cheap - at least no sponsons. Right now he's the biggest target since he has to start closer than the bassies or the manticore to become effective.

Is pask targetable if there's something closer? I forgot to ask that in my last game and he got shot to pieces turn one so running him with some cheap fodder to take the hits sounds like a good plan if he falls under that shooting characters rule.

You're paying for BS2. might as well get use out of it.

And Characters with wounds of 10 or more? Can be targeted as normal. I might just make my company commander my warlord depending. Usually pask gets targeted quickly but generally hasn't been an issue because of how resilient vehicles are.

Aye, not getting Sponsons on Pask seems like a massive waste of his BS 2+.

If you want to make him more resilient I'd suggest giving him the 6+ FNP Warlord Trait, and have a Techpriest Enginseer babysit him since he can restore D3 wounds to him per turn.

I put an enginseer next to Pask to heal his Punisher. I use HB sponsons and a hull lascannon. He doesn't get shot up much since I run two Hellhounds and five artillery vehicles along with a lot of infantry and Scions. My enemies get overwhelmed by so many targets that are threatening.


Edit to remove double post.

Yeah, definitely throw heavy bolter sponsons on Pask, at the very least. Even if you cruise around you're needing 3s to hit and can help put wounds downrange. It's a paltry upgrade cost compared to his base price.

Vanquishers are terrible. You pay a (small) premium over the battle cannon to do less average damage, not to mention making your main gun completely useless against infantry. If you want a long-range, tank killing gun, the battle cannon does it better, for fewer points. To drive the point home, consider this: the Vanquisher cannon is inferior to a meltagun on a standard Guardsman in terms of damage output. The only thing it has over the meltagun is range, and it loses a point of AP for the privilege.

If you find the Leman Russ too static, try out the Punisher with hull heavy flamer and storm bolter. I fielded two in my last tournament and they felt great.

Im trying a Tank commander Vanquisher and a regular Vanquisher russ vs Eldar tonight. Lets see if it can prove the math-hammering wrong!