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Just been thinking about the combine squads strategem. Do you think it will be restricted to basic infantry squads only or do you think you’ll be able to combine 2 command squads? Or combine a 4-plasma gun toting command squad with a 3-plasma gun toting vet squad to get 7 plasma guns in the same unit with some expendable meat shields? That would be awesome

or combining a script squad with a HWT Lascannon squad 20-30 ablative wounds till you get to the LasCannon goodness

I highly doubt combined squads will affect any units except for bog-standard infantry squads, a la 5th and 6th edition rules. Otherwise, the other combos you guys considered would be no-brainers and would be horribly abused, every time.

I guess that makes sense. I hope you can combine 2 already combined squads into a 40-man squad

The problem with leman russes is still that they are lascannon targets. I stopped taking them. But we'll see how Pask turns out. Might leave the maraduer destroyer at home and bring some sweet tanks

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Well remember with the LRBT it's not rolling 2d6, it's rolling 1d6 on 2 separate occasions.

So it's waaay better than you're making it out to be.

Totally, I agree, it's 2 separate shooting instances, so you can choose to re-roll both of them. But if you get a 3, keep it.


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 rhinoceraids wrote:
The problem with leman russes is still that they are lascannon targets. I stopped taking them. But we'll see how Pask turns out. Might leave the maraduer destroyer at home and bring some sweet tanks

I think the double shooting option and synergy with Regimental tags is going to elevate them quite a bit. They're already decently cheap for T8 12 wounds as is, it's just the damage output which is lackluster.

I've eaten so much krak and las with mine, just seem to get lucky on the armor saves and my opponent's damage rolls.

You mention Pask though, who is the #1 las-cannon bait in the Guard book.

People were complaining about the vulture with 40 shots. Cant wait to see how many complain about LR's shooting twice.

Pasks issue is still that if you make him your warlord he becomes target #1. Though I hate to bring yarrick and pask. Both cool models. If cadians get to re-roll ones anyways well there isnt much use for yarrick.

Hopefully pask gets a decent buff...or some sort of mitigation.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
People were complaining about the vulture with 40 shots. Cant wait to see how many complain about LR's shooting twice.

Pasks issue is still that if you make him your warlord he becomes target #1. Though I hate to bring yarrick and pask. Both cool models. If cadians get to re-roll ones anyways well there isnt much use for yarrick.

Hopefully pask gets a decent buff...or some sort of mitigation.

I mean, a Vulture is still looking better than a barebones Punisher -- the Punisher will now be very slightly cheaper and they'll have exactly the same shooting vs things without Fly, but the Vulture is a lot more durable, has the option to sit still and hit ground targets on a 3+, and can get to the other side of the table turn 1 with the option to charge and tie things up turn 2. Vultures are pretty crazy.

I am curious as to which weapons to take.

43 str 5 shots is, straight forward, pretty awesome. It will very simply shred infantry and actually delete units of 5-10 GEQ's to MEQ's.

However 24" on a 5" moving platform, not sure how I feel about that.

- Demolisher cannon: Same issue as the punisher. A different flavour of firepower but 24", especially against higher priority non-chaff units, more likely to be hidden further back.
- Eradicator: A generally less good version of the main battle cannon. Trades wounding on 2's (good, as it is earlier up the dice rolling chain) to sometimes ignoring 1+ save. Also lower range.
- Exterminator: A less good / slightly better Hydra, depending on target.
- Executioner: The +1 AP and straight 2D is nice... but double shooting means double the chance to loose more wounds. More things now have -1 to-hit (which really hurts right? makes a 2 = 1 for triggering mortal wounds?). It's good but not amazing and it is not easy to get re-roll 1's all the time.
- Battlecannon: Wounds most big things on 3's, 4's vs. the biggest. 2's vs the most common. -2AP, can do so at extremely long range. Modest D3 damage.Can fire all day without issue.

So in summary, I wouldn't use the executioner without re-roll 1's and I probably wouldn't bother anyway. The eradicator and exterminator are okay, less good than the BC. The demolisher, higher AP, high strength, high (variable) damage. Punisher, pure volume of shots or the standard battle cannon.

Against a leman russ, the punisher does 2-3 (2.3) wounds in damage. The demolisher does 3-4 (3.9) but will often be a D6 roll, occasionally (12%) 2D6 for damage. The battlecannon matches the punisher for damage 2-3 (2.25) wounds in damage. (this is assuming re-roll D3 to 2 average and re-rolling D6 to 4.5 average). This is a nice example against one of the hardest targets and there isn't huge amounts of difference.

Against infantry (of 10 models or more), you flip the numbers, a demolisher doing under 4.5 wounds (say 3?) with battlecannon somtimes coming in less. The punisher (assuming 40 shots, all other things being equal) perforates 4.4 MEQ's or 8.9 GEQ's. Also a final worthy mention will be the much larger scope for boosting the punisher over the other two weapons. (Technically) the demo / BC can max out at 12 kills, the punisher can max out at 40.

Demolisher tank commanders seem pretty spicey. A pair of them bare bones with pask would be fun.


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Winter SEO has a video review on the guard codex. Super heavy tanks down 40 points!!!


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Huge buff for Super heavys. Shadowsword is 3d3 shots....
None of them suffer from moving and shooting...

I was almost in tears with how happy I was when I watched that video. It is a good time to be a Guard player, and a great time to be a Tallarn player.

I can't wait to play my army with these rules.

Best codex this edition by far.....
It's so well done...
And with tyranids out soon I wonder how well GSC will become when attached with a astra militarum detachment.

gungo wrote:
Best codex this edition by far.....
It's so well done...
And with tyranids out soon I wonder how well GSC will become when attached with a astra militarum detachment.

That would be a fun game! I look forward to playing against a GSC army. Now, only if they put as much love in the Blood Angels Codex as they put into this Codex I will have zero complaints.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

gungo wrote:
Best codex this edition by far.....
It's so well done...
And with tyranids out soon I wonder how well GSC will become when attached with a astra militarum detachment.

That would be a fun game! I look forward to playing against a GSC army. Now, only if they put as much love in the Blood Angels Codex as they put into this Codex I will have zero complaints.

From what I have seen, I think the problem is that they showed too much love here. No other codex got nearly as much good stuff. That's going to really hurt balance in the competitive scene, especially since Guard is already really strong.

With basilisks now AP3 how does everyone feel about Manticores vs basilisks? I'm still going for Manticores given the sheer number of shots they can pump out early in the game which will combine nicely with the catachan doctrine.

So for those of us without ability to watch the video, what are the key points?

Cadian and tallarn regiments get unique tank orders, baneblade variants get an extra D6 shots from their main gun (shadosword excepted, which gets 3d3). Thats really most of the new stuff...

I think vostroyan are rather interesting, they actually get an order that allows them to continue shooting with they units, even if the enemy try to tie them up, that is really important, too bad they can't use it on tanks as well, that would be perfect.

Suzuteo wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

gungo wrote:
Best codex this edition by far.....
It's so well done...
And with tyranids out soon I wonder how well GSC will become when attached with a astra militarum detachment.

That would be a fun game! I look forward to playing against a GSC army. Now, only if they put as much love in the Blood Angels Codex as they put into this Codex I will have zero complaints.

From what I have seen, I think the problem is that they showed too much love here. No other codex got nearly as much good stuff. That's going to really hurt balance in the competitive scene, especially since Guard is already really strong.

Guard isn't strong in the competitive scene, scions and conscripts are. Two overpowered units and they're obvious from all the lists. Cheap double tapping plasma and bubble wrap. Most of the rsst of the guard units weren't pulling their weight, and some downright sucked.

I wouldn't be surprised if conscripts get nerfed dowh the line again, this nerf is a lovetap. I don't use them anyway.

wouldn't be surprised if conscripts get nerfed dowh the line again, this nerf is a lovetap. I don't use them anyway.

Both units got nerfed in their currently used, slightly too powerful variations. Plasmaguns went from 7pts to 12pts so no cheap plasma anymore. Conscripts also went from squad size 20-50 to 20-30 and receive orders only on 4+. So its better to use other weapons too with Scions now (except that plasma is still the king in raw power since it works best with their Regiment bonus) and conscripts still work as chaff but are easier to delete per squad and lack certainty when it comes to orders.

Plasmaguns are 15pnts on bs3 models, 12 for vets and still 7 pts on bs4.
Scions get another shot at halfrange on a 6+. Ironically this helps deepstrike plasmagun and not hot shot lasguns/melta.
They also have an order that allows them to reroll failed wound vs vehicles and monster creatures but that means no reroll 1s for plasma if you use it.

Baneblade variants all got huge buffs outside of regiment doctrines which further improve them. Price cut, d6 more shots, move and fire without penalty..... there is a new ogryn bodyguard that probably can eat wounds for tank characters. And pask which is already 2+ bs is Cadian which allows him to reroll 1 when he doesn't move.

Most infantry went down in price. Also combined squads allows you to almost never give up kill points because you can just keep combining squads for 1cp as long as you are near another infantry squad. I have no idea how they expect you to keep track of killpoints doing this unless each squad is marked different or you just don't get killpoints until the combined squad is gone.

Basilisks were good and now even better at -3ap.
Everyone was all hyped for catachan doctrine but thier order is kind of meh.. it allows you to reroll number of atks w flamers and ignore cover. Not extremely useful but ok on scout sentinels, I guess.

The best warlord trait gives you more cp and reroll 1 hit, wound, or saving throw per battle. I'm confused by this it's not per game or limited to the warlord so does this mean every single combat/shooting phase I can reroll 1 die?
3 new psychic powers with the best being -1 to hit a unit or maybe an 18in sniping psychic power that does a mortal wound on 2+, 3+, 4+, 5+, 6+.

You don't lose regimental doctrines with most AM add on units like commissars, bullgrysn, scions, priests, psykers and crusaders?

gungo wrote:
Plasmaguns are 15pnts on bs3 models, 12 for vets and still 7 pts on bs4.
Scions get another shot at halfrange on a 6+. Ironically this helps deepstrike plasmagun and not hot shot lasguns/melta.
They also have an order that allows them to reroll failed wound vs vehicles and monster creatures but that means no reroll 1s for plasma if you use it.

Baneblade variants all got huge buffs outside of regiment doctrines which further improve them. Price cut, d6 more shots, move and fire without penalty..... there is a new ogryn bodyguard that probably can eat wounds for tank characters. And pask which is already 2+ bs is Cadian which allows him to reroll 1 when he doesn't move.

Most infantry went down in price. Also combined squads allows you to almost never give up kill points because you can just keep combining squads for 1cp as long as you are near another infantry squad. I have no idea how they expect you to keep track of killpoints doing this unless each squad is marked different or you just don't get killpoints until the combined squad is gone.

Basilisks were good and now even better at -3ap.
Everyone was all hyped for catachan doctrine but thier order is kind of meh.. it allows you to reroll number of atks w flamers and ignore cover. Not extremely useful but ok on scout sentinels, I guess.

The best warlord trait gives you more cp and reroll 1 hit, wound, or saving throw per battle. I'm confused by this it's not per game or limited to the warlord so does this mean every single combat/shooting phase I can reroll 1 die?
3 new psychic powers with the best being -1 to hit a unit or maybe an 18in sniping psychic power that does a mortal wound on 2+, 3+, 4+, 5+, 6+.

You don't lose regimental doctrines with most AM add on units like commissars, bullgrysn, scions, priests, psykers and crusaders?

Marines pay 13 points. if scions pay 15 I'm crying foul.

The warlord trait reroll looks like one free use of the standard strategem to me in the whole game. The use of the term battle is a little unusual, but I think it just means game.

There's an oddity about advisors and auxilia, because its questionable whether that would apply to an MT regiment detachment based on the MT regiment wording.

 argonak wrote:

gungo wrote:
Plasmaguns are 15pnts on bs3 models, 12 for vets and still 7 pts on bs4.
Scions get another shot at halfrange on a 6+. Ironically this helps deepstrike plasmagun and not hot shot lasguns/melta.
They also have an order that allows them to reroll failed wound vs vehicles and monster creatures but that means no reroll 1s for plasma if you use it.

Baneblade variants all got huge buffs outside of regiment doctrines which further improve them. Price cut, d6 more shots, move and fire without penalty..... there is a new ogryn bodyguard that probably can eat wounds for tank characters. And pask which is already 2+ bs is Cadian which allows him to reroll 1 when he doesn't move.

Most infantry went down in price. Also combined squads allows you to almost never give up kill points because you can just keep combining squads for 1cp as long as you are near another infantry squad. I have no idea how they expect you to keep track of killpoints doing this unless each squad is marked different or you just don't get killpoints until the combined squad is gone.

Basilisks were good and now even better at -3ap.
Everyone was all hyped for catachan doctrine but thier order is kind of meh.. it allows you to reroll number of atks w flamers and ignore cover. Not extremely useful but ok on scout sentinels, I guess.

The best warlord trait gives you more cp and reroll 1 hit, wound, or saving throw per battle. I'm confused by this it's not per game or limited to the warlord so does this mean every single combat/shooting phase I can reroll 1 die?
3 new psychic powers with the best being -1 to hit a unit or maybe an 18in sniping psychic power that does a mortal wound on 2+, 3+, 4+, 5+, 6+.

You don't lose regimental doctrines with most AM add on units like commissars, bullgrysn, scions, priests, psykers and crusaders?

Marines pay 13 points. if scions pay 15 I'm crying foul.

Marines don't deepstrike which is why marine players use scions instead... plasmaguns are simply better on scions then marines nothing foul about it.
Look at the beginning of the video he states it there but it's not 100% clear when he says plasmaguns were 15pts and veterans pay 13pts..

gungo wrote:

 argonak wrote:

gungo wrote:
Plasmaguns are 15pnts on bs3 models, 12 for vets and still 7 pts on bs4.
Scions get another shot at halfrange on a 6+. Ironically this helps deepstrike plasmagun and not hot shot lasguns/melta.
They also have an order that allows them to reroll failed wound vs vehicles and monster creatures but that means no reroll 1s for plasma if you use it.

Baneblade variants all got huge buffs outside of regiment doctrines which further improve them. Price cut, d6 more shots, move and fire without penalty..... there is a new ogryn bodyguard that probably can eat wounds for tank characters. And pask which is already 2+ bs is Cadian which allows him to reroll 1 when he doesn't move.

Most infantry went down in price. Also combined squads allows you to almost never give up kill points because you can just keep combining squads for 1cp as long as you are near another infantry squad. I have no idea how they expect you to keep track of killpoints doing this unless each squad is marked different or you just don't get killpoints until the combined squad is gone.

Basilisks were good and now even better at -3ap.
Everyone was all hyped for catachan doctrine but thier order is kind of meh.. it allows you to reroll number of atks w flamers and ignore cover. Not extremely useful but ok on scout sentinels, I guess.

The best warlord trait gives you more cp and reroll 1 hit, wound, or saving throw per battle. I'm confused by this it's not per game or limited to the warlord so does this mean every single combat/shooting phase I can reroll 1 die?
3 new psychic powers with the best being -1 to hit a unit or maybe an 18in sniping psychic power that does a mortal wound on 2+, 3+, 4+, 5+, 6+.

You don't lose regimental doctrines with most AM add on units like commissars, bullgrysn, scions, priests, psykers and crusaders?

Marines pay 13 points. if scions pay 15 I'm crying foul.

Marines don't deepstrike which is why marine players use scions instead... plasmaguns are simply better on scions then marines nothing foul about it.
Look at the beginning of the video he states it there but it's not 100% clear when he says plasmaguns were 15pts and veterans pay 13pts..

Plenty of marines deep strike. They also have drop pods and a plethora of transports.

Normally, guns aren't priced per unit, they're typically priced per army. If you're talking about winters SEO he misunderstood several things he read and he also said that nothing increased in cost, so rather contradictory and he doesn't seem to have had a lot of time with the book. So I'm going to wait until the book comes out to make any snap judgements.

But if scions pay more than marines for a gun, that's just fething stupid. Scions already pay for their deepstrike capability in points.

I'm a bit annoyed they took out rough riders after I just bought a bunch to convert some up. Other than that I'm more than happy with this book!

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I'm a bit annoyed they took out rough riders after I just bought a bunch to convert some up. Other than that I'm more than happy with this book!

Well its not the end of the world really. You can use the unit entry from the Index.

Models like imperial space marine, rough riders or models w different load outs that are no longer sold can be used from the index.

I was thinking with the Consolidate Squads stratagem and the Laurels of Command relic you can pull off some zany stuff with Scions.

Drop two ten-man squads with a prime equipped with the laurels. Combine the two scions squads into a single twenty-man squad.
Prime orders Take Aim! and with the Laurels on a 4+ can order Elimination Protocol at the same time.

That's 20 Scions with 8 Plasma guns and 2 plasma pistols re-rolling 1s to hit, rolling additional shots on 6s, and re-rolling all failed to wounds on vehicles/monsters.

boi

Do rough riders still gain the regimental bonuses if you use the index version? I've just converted 30 of them armed with plasma