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 Mr Morden wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Why can't mauls and axes be taken using index points?

it would be a perfectly fine House Rule.

Why does it have to be house ruled? Did I miss a FAQ ruling? Index can be used for models that don't have a codex entry. Use the codex for the unit, index for the maul/axe.

xmbk wrote:
Why does it have to be house ruled? Did I miss a FAQ ruling? Index can be used for models that don't have a codex entry. Use the codex for the unit, index for the maul/axe.

Where is the "use index for stuff" thing written? Wanted to clarify how it works but couldn't remember where it is. I imagine it is supposed to be for units like rough riders that are not in the codex, no for stuff that has been updated in the codex. How else would they adjust OP things? Say power axes were super OP on Catachans, would they have no mechanism to remove it because they once said they could be taken? It gets worse when you think about applying rules such as the doctrines to entries written before the rules came out.

On another note, I just noticed that the demolisher cannon gets d6 shots at 5 models now. That makes it a lot more desirable. It is an expensive gun though. I'm tempted to take a 3xflamer demolisher and stick it with a tank commander in my outflanking Tallarn force. With the special Tallarn order, you can get the flamers in range from an outflank and burn everything.

 Zontarz wrote:

 malamis wrote:
Had the pleasure of making one of our uber competitive players concede the end of turn 1 against mono cadia:
That in 2k I had 3 SHTs , one with quad sponsons and 3 manticores made me realise that i'll need to play index without an appointment. Without even trying, IG can straight up suck the fun out of the game :|

I too would concede turn 1, maybe not even before I deployed if I had to see that. I can't see how that army would ever be fun for the opposing side unless they specifically built against it. I would work on maybe not bringing three SHTs in a 2k game and maybe something a bit more casual if you are looking to increase fun levels.

My competetive bobby g list handled them fine one a board with proper cover. It’s a very swingy list. Can your opponent kill a Baneblade a turn? If not you’ll table them, if so, you’ll be tabled.

 Trickstick wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Why does it have to be house ruled? Did I miss a FAQ ruling? Index can be used for models that don't have a codex entry. Use the codex for the unit, index for the maul/axe.

Where is the "use index for stuff" thing written? Wanted to clarify how it works but couldn't remember where it is. I imagine it is supposed to be for units like rough riders that are not in the codex, no for stuff that has been updated in the codex. How else would they adjust OP things? Say power axes were super OP on Catachans, would they have no mechanism to remove it because they once said they could be taken? It gets worse when you think about applying rules such as the doctrines to entries written before the rules came out.

On another note, I just noticed that the demolisher cannon gets d6 shots at 5 models now. That makes it a lot more desirable. It is an expensive gun though. I'm tempted to take a 3xflamer demolisher and stick it with a tank commander in my outflanking Tallarn force. With the special Tallarn order, you can get the flamers in range from an outflank and burn everything.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Seems pretty clear to me.

xmbk wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Why can't mauls and axes be taken using index points?

it would be a perfectly fine House Rule.

Why does it have to be house ruled? Did I miss a FAQ ruling? Index can be used for models that don't have a codex entry. Use the codex for the unit, index for the maul/axe.

Not correct, index can be used for units that are not updated in the codex. You don't get to pick and choose which version you want based on availability of options etc. So currently any unit that has updated rules MUST use the codex meaning you cannot get axes and mauls on your units unless they are available on a unit like rough riders.

People continue to get this so wrong. Another example are demo charges, there gone, period. I don't get to ignore the more current codex entries in order to swap in wargear that is no longer available.

xmbk wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Seems pretty clear to me.

Thanks, that helps.

 Red Corsair wrote:

xmbk wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Why can't mauls and axes be taken using index points?

it would be a perfectly fine House Rule.

Why does it have to be house ruled? Did I miss a FAQ ruling? Index can be used for models that don't have a codex entry. Use the codex for the unit, index for the maul/axe.

Not correct, index can be used for units that are not updated in the codex. You don't get to pick and choose which version you want based on availability of options etc. So currently any unit that has updated rules MUST use the codex meaning you cannot get axes and mauls on your units unless they are available on a unit like rough riders.

People continue to get this so wrong. Another example are demo charges, there gone, period. I don't get to ignore the more current codex entries in order to swap in wargear that is no longer available.

Except that this is exactly how it works. How else would I field my las/plas razorback? Or my master of the forge with conversion beamer? The only caveat is that you use whichever rules are available in the codex and *then* add the index stuff. So if the base unit got a points hike, you cant just use the cost from the index. But options are fair game.

Wtf power mauls and axes are gone from the new codex?!

 Red Corsair wrote:

xmbk wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Why can't mauls and axes be taken using index points?

it would be a perfectly fine House Rule.

Why does it have to be house ruled? Did I miss a FAQ ruling? Index can be used for models that don't have a codex entry. Use the codex for the unit, index for the maul/axe.

Not correct, index can be used for units that are not updated in the codex. You don't get to pick and choose which version you want based on availability of options etc. So currently any unit that has updated rules MUST use the codex meaning you cannot get axes and mauls on your units unless they are available on a unit like rough riders.

People continue to get this so wrong. Another example are demo charges, there gone, period. I don't get to ignore the more current codex entries in order to swap in wargear that is no longer available.

wait demo charges are gone entirely?

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Wtf power mauls and axes are gone from the new codex?!

The only power mauls are used by bullgryns or ogryn bodyguards.
However I really think it's poor form that special weapon teams lost demo charges as there is really very little point in special weapon teams.
I was also a fan of 2 flamers and a demo charge dropped from valkyrie.
It also dashes my hopes Marbo one day will return outside of shadowwar armeggedon.

Hmm. Why the heck would they do that? I spent a ton of time and a bit of money finding mauls and axes I liked and converting my guys!

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Hmm. Why the heck would they do that? I spent a ton of time and a bit of money finding mauls and axes I liked and converting my guys!

So you'd have to spend a ton of time and money finding swords and swords you liked and converting your dudes?

Why is no one excited about vostroya? 40 inch heavy bolters, and plasma cannons and 30 inch lasguns, plasma guns, grenade launchers, punishers, multi meltas, melta cannons, and demolishers.

And they look like badass Cossacks.

Blightstar wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

5) If I have a unit of 3 Lemun Russes, and I reserve them that only counts as 1 unit right?

5) They still count as three single units.

I disagree, the squad rule very clearly states they are one unit until they are "first set up";. The outflank rules tells you to set up the units at the end of a movement phase. If the squad rule said they become seperate units when deployed it would be less clear, but as it stands, you can spend 3 cp and outflank 9 leman russ tanks as 3 units. You could then bring them on unit by unit, and would have to follow the squad rule which dictates how close they have to be when you set them up, in addition to the outflank rules description. Then they become separate units and you may profit from the look on your opponents face as you eat his army.

gungo wrote:
...there is really very little point in special weapon teams.

Actually I think they have a more important place in the new book. With the limit on command squads and the addition of doctrines, SWSs are one way to get lots of doctrine special weapons. I can see them being decent in a Tallarn list for getting outflanking melta/plasma. I know that you can easily unlock more command squads by getting officers, but that is not the best idea in all lists, and has disadvantages.

Also a BS 4+ Guardsman with plasma gun is 11 points, and a BS 3+ Vet with the same is 19 points, so you can get almost double the number. Obviously you have to pay for ablative wounds in your SWS but even then, they are possibly more points efficient, with delivery and ordering being the only concerns.

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
Also a BS 4+ Guardsman with plasma gun is 11 points, and a BS 3+ Vet with the same is 19 points, so you can get almost double the number. Obviously you have to pay for ablative wounds in your SWS but even then, they are possibly more points efficient, with delivery and ordering being the only concerns.

Its a weird day when theres actually a point to SWS's and its not demo charges.

Absolutely sucks for vets though, theres almost no point in them now that stormtroopers are so good and SWS's spam weapons better. Vet squads arent even more survivable or anything either compared to equal points SWS. Command squads are easy to soam too since you get one for every cimmander you take.

Without doctrines and counting as elites what exactly is the point of vets now? BS+3 guardsmen and thats it? Theyre not even troops for objective secured.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
Also a BS 4+ Guardsman with plasma gun is 11 points, and a BS 3+ Vet with the same is 19 points, so you can get almost double the number. Obviously you have to pay for ablative wounds in your SWS but even then, they are possibly more points efficient, with delivery and ordering being the only concerns.

Its a weird day when theres actually a point to SWS's and its not demo charges.

Absolutely sucks for vets though, theres almost no point in them now that stormtroopers are so good and SWS's spam weapons better. Vet squads arent even more survivable or anything either compared to equal points SWS. Command squads are easy to soam too since you get one for every cimmander you take.

Without doctrines and counting as elites what exactly is the point of vets now? BS+3 guardsmen and thats it? Theyre not even troops for objective secured.

Do you think making plasmaguns twice the price for all BS3+ models was a mistake?

It seems like it brought Scions into line but hamstrung the already-struggling Veterans in the process.

Perhaps *only* Scions should be paying extra for their plasmaguns.

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
Also a BS 4+ Guardsman with plasma gun is 11 points, and a BS 3+ Vet with the same is 19 points, so you can get almost double the number. Obviously you have to pay for ablative wounds in your SWS but even then, they are possibly more points efficient, with delivery and ordering being the only concerns.

It's very close. A plasma command squad pays 28.125 points per hit at 24", while a special weapons squad pays 30. But the command squad is doing 78% more damage total and so is a much better use of most buffs. I've been toying with either 2 command squads and 2 SWSs or just 4 command squads in two Valkyries.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Without doctrines and counting as elites what exactly is the point of vets now? BS+3 guardsmen and thats it? Theyre not even troops for objective secured.

The entire point of elites is because they get regimental doctrines (although I guess you meant the old carapace-style ones). They are the units that you want to use many of the doctrines and stratagems on. For instance, they make good mechanised units on an Armageddon list, as you get a lot more firepower for your 1cp ability when dismounting. They are the the unit you want to give the Mordian's exploding 6s through Volley Fire. Personally, I am thinking that outflanking a unit of Tallarn shotgun meltavets can work really well. Order them to move move move to get them inside 6" in the shooting phase, and the doctrine lets you shoot your guns with no penalty.

Veterans seem in a much better place than they were in the index, as they are no longer just "worse scions". The regimental doctrines, orders and stratagems open up a whole load more possibilities and they are one of the better units to do crazy buffs on. Sure, command squads can do a similar thing but you are losing all of your ablative wounds if you go that route, as well as the extra firepower that lasguns/shotguns give.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
Also a BS 4+ Guardsman with plasma gun is 11 points, and a BS 3+ Vet with the same is 19 points, so you can get almost double the number. Obviously you have to pay for ablative wounds in your SWS but even then, they are possibly more points efficient, with delivery and ordering being the only concerns.

It's very close. A plasma command squad pays 28.125 points per hit at 24", while a special weapons squad pays 30. But the command squad is doing 78% more damage total and so is a much better use of most buffs. I've been toying with either 2 command squads and 2 SWSs or just 4 command squads in two Valkyries.

Have you taken into account the 20 points for an officer (think platoon commander is cheapest) in order to take the command squad? As for veteran squads, I guess the one advantage that springs to mind is the ability to take voxcasters for spreading out and staying in order range, or fire on my position shenanigans.

 jamesterjlrb wrote:

Have you taken into account the 20 points for an officer (think platoon commander is cheapest) in order to take the command squad? As for veteran squads, I guess the one advantage that springs to mind is the ability to take voxcasters for spreading out and staying in order range, or fire on my position shenanigans.

No, I'm just looking at the units themselves. You probably want at least one company commander per pair of plasma squads regardless, and so with the sort of setup I describe it probably makes sense to run 4 command squads if you have a use for two more commanders anywhere else.

Thinking about it, I guess you don't particularly want commanders for suicide SWSs. They more-or-less make their points back in a single volley against many vehicles, and it's not actually worth it, damage-wise, to pay 15 points for half a commander to order them to re-roll 1s. You'll just probably lose 1 of the plasma gunners when they shoot, but whatever.

I'm really just looking for interesting ways to use Valkyries. I like Vostroyan or Armageddon plasma squads for them. Crusaders also look great. I'm looking at 2 Valkyries full of plasma guns and then 1 with Crusaders and an Astropath. The plasma gunners have like a 45-48" effective rapid-fire range even if the Valkyrie only moves 20", and the Crusaders can get 30" from your deployment zone and then charge with a 2++ from the Astropath.

 Trickstick wrote:

gungo wrote:
...there is really very little point in special weapon teams.

Actually I think they have a more important place in the new book. With the limit on command squads and the addition of doctrines, SWSs are one way to get lots of doctrine special weapons. I can see them being decent in a Tallarn list for getting outflanking melta/plasma. I know that you can easily unlock more command squads by getting officers, but that is not the best idea in all lists, and has disadvantages.

Guard players are acting like this is a great codex when it has bad internal balance in the current codex.
Command squads are what SWS should be.
Vets should be troops and scions should be elites outside of a pure MT detachment.

You really don't need to spam sws becuase you should have enough command squads for any type of deepstrike, Valkyrie, infiltrating. Type shenanigans furthermore what you are talking about w tallarn is better performed by a 3+ shooting unit like vets since it's a pure glass cannon role.
SWS really should have kept demo charges and had that role still as minuscule as it was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
Also a BS 4+ Guardsman with plasma gun is 11 points, and a BS 3+ Vet with the same is 19 points, so you can get almost double the number. Obviously you have to pay for ablative wounds in your SWS but even then, they are possibly more points efficient, with delivery and ordering being the only concerns.

Its a weird day when theres actually a point to SWS's and its not demo charges.

Absolutely sucks for vets though, theres almost no point in them now that stormtroopers are so good and SWS's spam weapons better. Vet squads arent even more survivable or anything either compared to equal points SWS. Command squads are easy to soam too since you get one for every cimmander you take.

Without doctrines and counting as elites what exactly is the point of vets now? BS+3 guardsmen and thats it? Theyre not even troops for objective secured.

Do you think making plasmaguns twice the price for all BS3+ models was a mistake?

It seems like it brought Scions into line but hamstrung the already-struggling Veterans in the process.

Perhaps *only* Scions should be paying extra for their plasmaguns.

No scions should never have been troops in astra militarum detachments.
They are rare.
Where IG vets are one of the billion of troopers who survived a campaign.

gungo wrote:

No scions should never have been troops in astra militarum detachments.

I agree.

However, this doesn't actually solve the problem. Vets are still going to be competing with Scions (who have better delivery) and SWSs (which are far more efficient).

I think Vets and SWSs need to be troops, Scions should be elites, and Vets shouldn't be paying twice as much as other infantry for their plasmaguns.

While we are talking about this I think Platoon Commanders should have been an HQ OR Elite option, its crazy from a fluff perspective that to fulfill HQ tax your filling out with multiple Company Commanders, they are the same power cost but Company has 1 extra wound and 1 extra order for a 1/3rd point cost increase.

Its particularly galling as two HQ options are Cadian Exclusive and 1 Catachan and both Yarrick and Tank Commander are quite expensive/unique). The alternate is you for some reason are hosting a Primaris Psyker convention.



...

I am just bitter as I am having to squeeze 3 more HQ's in to form a supreme command detachment so that my Superheavy can access regimental doctrines while at the same time Command Squad requires 1 to 1 officer of same regiment within the same detachment and I cant have more than 50% non regiment within a detachment.

WatcherZero wrote:
While we are talking about this I think Platoon Commanders should have been an HQ OR Elite option, its crazy from a fluff perspective that to fulfill HQ tax your filling out with multiple Company Commanders, they are the same power cost but Company has 1 extra wound and 1 extra order for a 1/3rd point cost increase.

I think having Platoon Commanders as Elites is fine. If anything, you'd expect them to be troops (since they used to be part of Infantry Platoons).

The issue is that they really should be 15pts. As it stands, Company Commanders are just far better value.


Honestly, what I'd like to see is a more expensive HQ (but a generic one, not a special character). Some sort of Supreme Commander who'd outrank Company Commanders.

The issue for me is that Company Commanders are very useful and I like that they're cheap, but there's also basically nothing to them. You're basically buying two extra Orders per turn for your army, which happen to come with a free model. It would be nice to have an HQ that could offer a little more of, well, anything really. Maybe slightly better stats or some extra wargear, or really anything that would set him apart from the dime-a-dozen Company Commanders.

(And yes, I know that there are Lord Commissars, but they serve a different role and can't be from any of the regiments.)

Speaking of SWS and CCS, I was brainstorming a steel legion list to take advantage of the 15 point cost reduction for the taurox.

The taurox w/2 autocannons is now 70 while a heavy bolter chimera is 91. That's basically a 20 point difference. The biggest downside is 10 man capacity so you can't fit a commander in there to throw the mount up order. And if you're not mounting up, what's the point of playing steel legion anyway? So the next logical step? Either sws or ccs. 6 and 4 men respectively. Steel legion weapons rapid fire at 18" so it seems like a good idea to do that with plasma. But plasma on CCS is BS4 so it's really expensive. 72 ccs plasma squad vs 52 sws plasma squad to be exact. You can fit 2 CCS squads + company commander in a taurox, but that feels like way too many eggs in one basket (244 point taurox). So maybe 1 CCS with a platoon commander because you'll only need one order? That's 162 points per taurox. But they're not even troops. And should you be taking lots of lasguns and not focusing so much on special weapons with steel legion? I don't friggin' know. Is mechanizing infantry even at all possible nowadays? Or is thinking about this pointless because I'd be gimping myself?

I'd appreciate some thoughts.

ThePorcupine wrote:
Speaking of SWS and CCS, I was brainstorming a steel legion list to take advantage of the 15 point cost reduction for the taurox.

The taurox w/2 autocannons is now 70 while a heavy bolter chimera is 91. That's basically a 20 point difference. The biggest downside is 10 man capacity so you can't fit a commander in there to throw the mount up order. And if you're not mounting up, what's the point of playing steel legion anyway? So the next logical step? Either sws or ccs. 6 and 4 men respectively. Steel legion weapons rapid fire at 18" so it seems like a good idea to do that with plasma. But plasma on CCS is BS4 so it's really expensive. 72 ccs plasma squad vs 52 sws plasma squad to be exact. You can fit 2 CCS squads + company commander in a taurox, but that feels like way too many eggs in one basket (244 point taurox). So maybe 1 CCS with a platoon commander because you'll only need one order? That's 162 points per taurox. But they're not even troops. And should you be taking lots of lasguns and not focusing so much on special weapons with steel legion? I don't friggin' know. Is mechanizing infantry even at all possible nowadays? Or is thinking about this pointless because I'd be gimping myself?

I'd appreciate some thoughts.

Another option is to add a vox caster to that 10 man squad to give you access to orders. The benefit of using an infantry squad instead of the elite choices is the obsec, and if you have that much mobility and protection available, then I imagine they probably would be best used by rushing to objectives and holding the enemy at range. If you want suicide plasma, I think Scions deepstriking is still the best way to go, no?

I dunno. Maybe. I'm just trying to come up with a "good" steel legion list. Everyone and their grandmother has a cadian or a catachan list. It's not hard to make them competitive. The more obscure regiments though?

When I first read the steel legion order and stratagem I thought they were trash. Shoot and embark seems great until you read that you can't do it if you disembarked. Then.. what's.. the point? As soon as you come out, you're left in the open for a turn and you can kiss your squad goodbye. And 1CP to reroll 1s for a squad coming out of a transport? What, you mean like the order? That's free?

But I'm trying to not be so negative. There has to be SOME way to make mechanized guard viable. That's steel legion's whole thing!

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

xmbk wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Why can't mauls and axes be taken using index points?

it would be a perfectly fine House Rule.

Why does it have to be house ruled? Did I miss a FAQ ruling? Index can be used for models that don't have a codex entry. Use the codex for the unit, index for the maul/axe.

Not correct, index can be used for units that are not updated in the codex. You don't get to pick and choose which version you want based on availability of options etc. So currently any unit that has updated rules MUST use the codex meaning you cannot get axes and mauls on your units unless they are available on a unit like rough riders.

People continue to get this so wrong. Another example are demo charges, there gone, period. I don't get to ignore the more current codex entries in order to swap in wargear that is no longer available.

Except that this is exactly how it works. How else would I field my las/plas razorback? Or my master of the forge with conversion beamer? The only caveat is that you use whichever rules are available in the codex and *then* add the index stuff. So if the base unit got a points hike, you cant just use the cost from the index. But options are fair game.

I know how it is worded, which is like garbage. But it's fairly obvious when you look at the examples they cite that they are referring more so to single models like vehicles and characters on bikes or cavalry mounts that are missing entirely from the codex. Notice power axes and mauls are not missing from any of the models in questions entry but from the wargear list from the front page? That should have been a dead giveaway.

That being said I can see how people could enterpret it that way, but I think it's a mistake and also gamey. Name me one model GW sold for guard that had a power maul. On that note the only model I can think of with an axe was a commissar from 2nd ed that also had a hand flamer so I wouldn't even count that guy. The have always made them with fists, power swords or chainswords. If power mauls/axes didn't give an edge no one would care.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Hmm. Why the heck would they do that? I spent a ton of time and a bit of money finding mauls and axes I liked and converting my guys!

If they only have power swords as an option then it's no big deal just count them all as power swords. It's hardly an issue for wysiwyg if they all are armed with them, it's just aesthetics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
Also a BS 4+ Guardsman with plasma gun is 11 points, and a BS 3+ Vet with the same is 19 points, so you can get almost double the number. Obviously you have to pay for ablative wounds in your SWS but even then, they are possibly more points efficient, with delivery and ordering being the only concerns.

Its a weird day when theres actually a point to SWS's and its not demo charges.

Absolutely sucks for vets though, theres almost no point in them now that stormtroopers are so good and SWS's spam weapons better. Vet squads arent even more survivable or anything either compared to equal points SWS. Command squads are easy to soam too since you get one for every cimmander you take.

Without doctrines and counting as elites what exactly is the point of vets now? BS+3 guardsmen and thats it? Theyre not even troops for objective secured.

Do you think making plasmaguns twice the price for all BS3+ models was a mistake?

It seems like it brought Scions into line but hamstrung the already-struggling Veterans in the process.

Perhaps *only* Scions should be paying extra for their plasmaguns.

They went about it in the most idiotic way imaginable. Gear should not costs different amounts, the unit entries should. No idea why they didn't just increase the base cost on storm troopers. Its so much cleaner.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 jamesterjlrb wrote:

Have you taken into account the 20 points for an officer (think platoon commander is cheapest) in order to take the command squad? As for veteran squads, I guess the one advantage that springs to mind is the ability to take voxcasters for spreading out and staying in order range, or fire on my position shenanigans.

No, I'm just looking at the units themselves. You probably want at least one company commander per pair of plasma squads regardless, and so with the sort of setup I describe it probably makes sense to run 4 command squads if you have a use for two more commanders anywhere else.

Thinking about it, I guess you don't particularly want commanders for suicide SWSs. They more-or-less make their points back in a single volley against many vehicles, and it's not actually worth it, damage-wise, to pay 15 points for half a commander to order them to re-roll 1s. You'll just probably lose 1 of the plasma gunners when they shoot, but whatever.

I'm really just looking for interesting ways to use Valkyries. I like Vostroyan or Armageddon plasma squads for them. Crusaders also look great. I'm looking at 2 Valkyries full of plasma guns and then 1 with Crusaders and an Astropath. The plasma gunners have like a 45-48" effective rapid-fire range even if the Valkyrie only moves 20", and the Crusaders can get 30" from your deployment zone and then charge with a 2++ from the Astropath.

I am also toying with valkyries, they are so damned good right now. Dropping in mordian command squads gives you the chance to execute enemy characters, while catachan has some beat stick characters that can charge out. Also don't forget, if you move in hover mode you can also assault something to tie it down lol.