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2018/02/02 05:25:05
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
tag8833 wrote: Are Melta Scions still worth it? I was dubious about them before the price hike, and afterwards I dropped them from my list, but I've found that my list doesn't have as much anti-vehicle firepower as I'd like, and I'm going to be phasing out the anti-vehicle tauroxes (ML + AC), and I need to find anti-tank somewhere.
What job does a 12" threat deepstrike do that a shadowsword couldn't do better? Competitive lists have scouts, nurglings, rangers, stealth suits, other things that infiltrate. If they don't want you hitting something at 12" and they are running a good list, you won't get that melta shot.
2018/02/02 06:02:36
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
They don't really add much anymore. If you've got guys living past the drop they can sometimes be handy, but usually they're either out of range or whiff. I replaced mine with plasma.
In a pure Scion list theyre about your only source of serious AT, so you'd be stuck with them, but theyre not ideal anymore, that's for sure. That 9" drop really hurts them. When plasma is cheaper, gets more shots, and gets roughly the same damage anyways I'm not entirely sure why you would run them in stormtrooper squads anymore unless you're doing airdrops from Valkyries.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/02/02 11:13:39
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Hey all, having a bit of a conundrum. Do ye prefer Tank Commanders or normal Leman Russ's?
I am either going to make a Supreme Detach. W/ 3 Tank Commanders, Battle Cannon, 2x Plasma Cannons and Lascannons and Platoon Commander
Or
i will make a Spearhead Detach. W/ Company Commander and 4 Leman Russ's w/ Battle Cannons and Lascannons as they cannot re-rolling 1s.
I'm swinging towards the Supreme Commander detach, just because everything hits on 3s and can re-rolling 1s while the Spearhead will just be lots of strong firepower hitting on 4s with no re-rolls.
In my opinion Tank Commanders are better, because besides the improved WS, they also have orders and (correct me if I'm wrong), they can order the other commanders.
Theo4016 wrote: In my opinion Tank Commanders are better, because besides the improved WS, they also have orders and (correct me if I'm wrong), they can order the other commanders.
Yeah, they can Order Leman Russ's which let's you Order other TC or themselves. I think 3 TC is probably better then 4 Russ's.
So remember there is the Stratagem which allows an officer who just issued an order to issue another one. So I tend to use that in order to save a few points by just having a regular tank as a side kick to a TC. Additionally, not all tank variants benefit much by being upgraded to a TC. I run a fireball punisher and there is no need to increase that beast in points just for +1 BS.
I wish the tanks had a sightly increased orders range. 6" for a dude yelling at his soldiers seems reasonable. But tank to tank orders being the same distance seems silly and is quite limiting, but that's another issue entirely.
And Tag, Elysians are the kings of min-maxing your deep strike special weapons. You don't expect your suicide squads to survive the next round, so lack of armor is definitely worth the deceased points cost. You basically only care about different BS at that point. I think they're worth it.
5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech
2018/02/02 18:19:19
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Colonel Cross wrote: So remember there is the Stratagem which allows an officer who just issued an order to issue another one. So I tend to use that in order to save a few points by just having a regular tank as a side kick to a TC. Additionally, not all tank variants benefit much by being upgraded to a TC. I run a fireball punisher and there is no need to increase that beast in points just for +1 BS.
I wish the tanks had a sightly increased orders range. 6" for a dude yelling at his soldiers seems reasonable. But tank to tank orders being the same distance seems silly and is quite limiting, but that's another issue entirely.
And Tag, Elysians are the kings of min-maxing your deep strike special weapons. You don't expect your suicide squads to survive the next round, so lack of armor is definitely worth the deceased points cost. You basically only care about different BS at that point. I think they're worth it.
Vox Casters should be able to push out your Tank Orders
BTW I'm on Team Pask Team Overlapping Fields of Fire! and 3 LRBT with Plasma and More Plasma
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/02 18:19:59
2018/02/02 18:43:17
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Theo4016 wrote: In my opinion Tank Commanders are better, because besides the improved WS, they also have orders and (correct me if I'm wrong), they can order the other commanders.
They are more reliable but are 3 TCs really better than 4 leman russes. I mean I would want 4 in order to give the enemy more targets. It is my opinion that the guard have always been quantity over quality. I like to run infantry squads with lascannons so that way it overwhelms my opponent in picking a target. They cant avoid all that punishment. I would take a tank commander if I was running one tank and if I was running more I would have maybe one tank commander then have 2-3 russes.
Tyler
2018/02/02 18:55:57
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Resipsa131 wrote: Vox Casters should be able to push out your Tank Orders
BTW I'm on Team Pask Team Overlapping Fields of Fire! and 3 LRBT with Plasma and More Plasma
Unfortunately tanks aren't affected by vox casters as the recieving tank doesn't have a vox caster to recieve the order. That makes no sense as Leman Russes should have radios and/or increased order range.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/02 18:57:17
2018/02/02 19:13:29
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Not sure why leman russes. Why not a shadowsword? If you get first turn you can give it -1 to hit and +1 save, and it is dynamite in melee. And all its sponsons don't take the heavy penalty.
2018/02/02 22:53:06
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Hello folks. Long time lurker in the dakka fourms and there are some sweet combos here I can't wait to try, especially the Tallern Punisher Russ combo running over unsuspecting blokes on a 2+.
So with the custodes banner dude giving units wholly within 9" at 5++ save, does that mean we can potentially give a conscript blob at 4++ save with psychic barrier?
2018/02/02 23:42:37
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Smitetheheretic wrote: Hello folks. Long time lurker in the dakka fourms and there are some sweet combos here I can't wait to try, especially the Tallern Punisher Russ combo running over unsuspecting blokes on a 2+.
So with the custodes banner dude giving units wholly within 9" at 5++ save, does that mean we can potentially give a conscript blob at 4++ save with psychic barrier?
Sure at enough points to make them some of the more expensive infantry formations AM has ever wielded.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Smitetheheretic wrote: Hello folks. Long time lurker in the dakka fourms and there are some sweet combos here I can't wait to try, especially the Tallern Punisher Russ combo running over unsuspecting blokes on a 2+.
So with the custodes banner dude giving units wholly within 9" at 5++ save, does that mean we can potentially give a conscript blob at 4++ save with psychic barrier?
Sure at enough points to make them some of the more expensive infantry formations AM has ever wielded.
Thanks for the response! I see your point, could also be used with infantry squads, but a 40-man tarpit at 4++ with morale buffs is hard to ignore. Oh the possibilities.
2018/02/03 00:10:38
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Smitetheheretic wrote: Hello folks. Long time lurker in the dakka fourms and there are some sweet combos here I can't wait to try, especially the Tallern Punisher Russ combo running over unsuspecting blokes on a 2+.
So with the custodes banner dude giving units wholly within 9" at 5++ save, does that mean we can potentially give a conscript blob at 4++ save with psychic barrier?
Sure at enough points to make them some of the more expensive infantry formations AM has ever wielded.
Thanks for the response! I see your point, could also be used with infantry squads, but a 40-man tarpit at 4++ with morale buffs is hard to ignore. Oh the possibilities.
It would definitely be hard to ignore, as it would be an illegal formation.
2018/02/03 00:27:17
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Smitetheheretic wrote: Hello folks. Long time lurker in the dakka fourms and there are some sweet combos here I can't wait to try, especially the Tallern Punisher Russ combo running over unsuspecting blokes on a 2+.
So with the custodes banner dude giving units wholly within 9" at 5++ save, does that mean we can potentially give a conscript blob at 4++ save with psychic barrier?
Sure at enough points to make them some of the more expensive infantry formations AM has ever wielded.
Thanks for the response! I see your point, could also be used with infantry squads, but a 40-man tarpit at 4++ with morale buffs is hard to ignore. Oh the possibilities.
It would definitely be hard to ignore, as it would be an illegal formation.
How so? Conscripts can take up to 40 bodies in a squad, unless I'm missing something from the faq. So long as the stay wholly within the 9", where would the illegality be?
2018/02/03 02:13:24
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Smitetheheretic wrote: Hello folks. Long time lurker in the dakka fourms and there are some sweet combos here I can't wait to try, especially the Tallern Punisher Russ combo running over unsuspecting blokes on a 2+.
So with the custodes banner dude giving units wholly within 9" at 5++ save, does that mean we can potentially give a conscript blob at 4++ save with psychic barrier?
Sure at enough points to make them some of the more expensive infantry formations AM has ever wielded.
Thanks for the response! I see your point, could also be used with infantry squads, but a 40-man tarpit at 4++ with morale buffs is hard to ignore. Oh the possibilities.
It would definitely be hard to ignore, as it would be an illegal formation.
How so? Conscripts can take up to 40 bodies in a squad, unless I'm missing something from the faq. So long as the stay wholly within the 9", where would the illegality be?
Max unit size is 30 for Conscripts.
2018/02/03 03:00:49
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Wulfey wrote: Not sure why leman russes. Why not a shadowsword? If you get first turn you can give it -1 to hit and +1 save, and it is dynamite in melee. And all its sponsons don't take the heavy penalty.
Leman russe's are more durable per point, allow you to spread your firepower, and your psyker strategy is easily telegraphed and defeated, either through deny the witch or by not getting first turn. Not arguing that shadowswords aren't amazing, just that there are serious reasons to choose a Russ detachment (because it will be anywhere from 2-3 russe's per baneblade chassis) Basically it's different strokes for different folks.
For me I prefer more regular russe's over tank commanders. It's normally a 1-2 tank difference per points spent by the time upgrades are totalled, which I find more useful than higher BS. Seems to match better with infantry guard.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/02/03 05:01:13
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Wulfey wrote: Not sure why leman russes. Why not a shadowsword? If you get first turn you can give it -1 to hit and +1 save, and it is dynamite in melee. And all its sponsons don't take the heavy penalty.
Many reasons are available.
1. Shadowsword is wasting some of its strength on lower than toughness 7.
2. It only gets 3-9 shots
3. Limited detachments have a LOW slot.
LRBT 1. Hits just as hard as a shadowsword against anything t4. Up to t7 still wounding on a 3.
2. Gets 2-12 shots per tank. Three tanks is 6-36 shots.
3. Easy to pop into detachments.
Shadowsword is strong, but so is LRBT.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Smitetheheretic wrote: Hello folks. Long time lurker in the dakka fourms and there are some sweet combos here I can't wait to try, especially the Tallern Punisher Russ combo running over unsuspecting blokes on a 2+.
So with the custodes banner dude giving units wholly within 9" at 5++ save, does that mean we can potentially give a conscript blob at 4++ save with psychic barrier?
Yeah. But why would you want to? Infantry squads are better anyway. Conscripts are a dead unit outside of a couple rare circumstances.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 05:03:19
2018/02/03 08:13:13
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Battalion:
Tempestor prime with command rod
Primaris psyker
2 astropaths
5 Scion squads with plasma gun and plasma pistol
2 taurox primes with Gatling cannon and volley guns
2 taurox primes with missile launchers
Scions start in the air to drop in, tauroxes on the board and astropaths buff them. Should be able to be built from 4 start collecting boxes, an extra scions box and a couple of converted characters
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
2018/02/03 11:22:04
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
DoomMouse wrote: Battalion:
Tempestor prime with command rod
Primaris psyker
2 astropaths
5 Scion squads with plasma gun and plasma pistol
2 taurox primes with Gatling cannon and volley guns
2 taurox primes with missile launchers
Scions start in the air to drop in, tauroxes on the board and astropaths buff them. Should be able to be built from 4 start collecting boxes, an extra scions box and a couple of converted characters
That seems like a good base.
How do you think it will do on tabletop?
2018/02/03 11:52:49
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
It's certainly not a weak list, but not tournament winning either. Should be fine for a beginner. Guard will always do better with some screening bodies though, if just to keep the enemy from charging the tauroxes
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
2018/02/04 12:30:33
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
++ Total: [52 PL, 860pts] ++
The basic difference is;
Supreme Detach. Is 8d6 S8 -2 D D3 shots w/ 4 S9 -3 D D6 shots all hitting on 3s (if not moved) and re-rolling 1s .
Spearhead Detach. Is 10d6 S8 -2 D D3 shots w/ 5 S9 -3 D D6 all hitting on 4s (if not moved) with no re-rolls.
I personally prefer the Supreme as it's more reliable shooting and it is 1 less drop. The Spearhead has more "durability" due to an extra LR but everything hitting on 4s means only half of what I shoot will make contact and that's before the wounding phase.
What would you guy recommend I take? The rest of my army is 2 Flyrants, 3 x 18 Genestealers, 1 GSC Magus and 1 GSC neophytes.
If you're running tank commanders you may as well find the points for heavy bolter sponsons and heavy stubbers - you're already paying for that awesome platform of BS3+ re rolling ones, so these would be the best value heavy bolters and stuvbbers you can buy - they're priced assuming they'll be firing at BS 4+
Also, if you definitely want a random elite slot filled, an astropath would be so much better than a naked platoon commander. Give him psychic maelstrom and he can provide some nice mortal wounds and an extra denial.
I reckon that dropping enough genestealers to pay for these would definitely make your first list stronger!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/04 13:20:14
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
2018/02/04 13:35:15
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
DoomMouse wrote: If you're running tank commanders you may as well find the points for heavy bolter sponsons and heavy stubbers - you're already paying for that awesome platform of BS3+ re rolling ones, so these would be the best value heavy bolters and stuvbbers you can buy - they're priced assuming they'll be firing at BS 4+
Also, if you definitely want a random elite slot filled, an astropath would be so much better than a naked platoon commander. Give him psychic maelstrom and he can provide some nice mortal wounds and an extra denial.
I reckon that dropping enough genestealers to pay for these would definitely make your first list stronger!
-Edited-
Awesome advise.
I could drop 5 Genestealers for 2x Heavy Bolters on each Commander giving me 24 S5 -1 d1 shots. I won't use the Stubbers though. Can't find the points to add them in.
My Plate Commander is my Warlord so I have access to Grand Strategist and Relics.
I'll probably keep the Plat Commander over Astro, I already have 3 ways to deny with the Flyrants giving a -1 to pyskers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/04 13:54:15
The last couple of weeks I've reverted to single-tank superheavy lists, and both weeks they've been one-shot (by that I mean died in one phase from 100% to 0%, not by literally a single shot) despite psyker support.
I'm increasingly convinced that either Leman Russ spam (appropriately screened of course) or running 3 superheavies is better, because 1 superheavy is just begging to be insta-nuked, and for its price there's SO MUCH in codex IG you could purchase. A max-sponson Shadowsword is literally a brigade of Imperial Guard or three Tank Commander russes (or 3.5 regular russes) by itself. God forbid you put twin Heavy Flamers on it, then you can squeeze in an entire Spearhead detachment of Russes for its cost.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/05 14:54:18
2018/02/05 16:45:49
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
++ Total: [52 PL, 860pts] ++
The basic difference is;
Supreme Detach. Is 8d6 S8 -2 D D3 shots w/ 4 S9 -3 D D6 shots all hitting on 3s (if not moved) and re-rolling 1s .
Spearhead Detach. Is 10d6 S8 -2 D D3 shots w/ 5 S9 -3 D D6 all hitting on 4s (if not moved) with no re-rolls.
I personally prefer the Supreme as it's more reliable shooting and it is 1 less drop. The Spearhead has more "durability" due to an extra LR but everything hitting on 4s means only half of what I shoot will make contact and that's before the wounding phase.
What would you guy recommend I take? The rest of my army is 2 Flyrants, 3 x 18 Genestealers, 1 GSC Magus and 1 GSC neophytes.
Does the ETC use ITC rules? If they do I'd steer well away from 3 Tank Commanders as they'd gift secondary points to your enemy. Big game hunter combined with Headhunter would give your opponent 2 bonus points every time he killed one. The 4 LRBT would only give him one bonus point everytime they're killed if he took big game hunter.
Are you playing ETC in Ireland (based off your flag) Where are the games held?
2018/02/05 17:49:24
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
The last couple of weeks I've reverted to single-tank superheavy lists, and both weeks they've been one-shot (by that I mean died in one phase from 100% to 0%, not by literally a single shot) despite psyker support.
I'm increasingly convinced that either Leman Russ spam (appropriately screened of course) or running 3 superheavies is better, because 1 superheavy is just begging to be insta-nuked, and for its price there's SO MUCH in codex IG you could purchase. A max-sponson Shadowsword is literally a brigade of Imperial Guard or three Tank Commander russes (or 3.5 regular russes) by itself. God forbid you put twin Heavy Flamers on it, then you can squeeze in an entire Spearhead detachment of Russes for its cost.
I agree, 3 Russes >>> than 1 Baneblade variant. My Baneblade regularly goes from full hull points to zero in 1 turn, it just isn't worth it.
1000pts Space Marines 
1200pts Tau 
2500pts Blood Angels 
3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades 
and 1700pts Daemons 
450pts Imperial Knights 
