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'Tis a shame.

Moving along...

Rumors are that regular guardsmen are being bumped up to 5 ppm. In most of my army compositions I always included a sniper team, composed of a special weapons squad with three sniper rifles.

One thing that just occurred to me is that Ratlings cost 5ppm, and that a unit of them would cost less, have better ballistics skill, and the capability to set up anywhere. I think I see some potential (for those of us who enjoy running snipers.)

With Chapter Approved (+2 base) and sniper rifles cost Ratlings are 9 points per model. Pretty expensive for what they do.

This chapter approved stuff/online faq is killing me. Can't keep track of it. My Codex isn't even applicable anymore. (Seriously I was out of country for two months...)

They ever update hard copies? Or even online copies? (I hate digital codex's buy hey, if it works it works)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moving along from my angry rant: Where do I find these points adjustments? Rules errata were easy enough to locate (and were well organized), but I cannot find the points adjustments aside from word of mouth.

40k FAQs: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
Chapter Approved 2017: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-DK/Warhammer-40000-Chapter-Approved-2017-ENG // http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2017/11/20/chapter-approved-leak-compilation/



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is there a way to deepstrike/outlank Astropaths?

My first thought was the The Dagger of Tu'Sakh - but it seems per the FAQ it's only for officers; which they are not.

fe40k wrote:
Is there a way to deepstrike/outlank Astropaths?

As far as I am aware, the similar option depends on how you/GW come down on embarking infantry on Tallarn transports using the Ambush stratagem. If you can embark anything on such a Tallarn transport then you could put an astropath in a Chimera or other transport. If not then I believe they are currently out of options. I do not believe there are any remaining infantry units with the Officer keyword but no <REGIMENT>.

Shove them out of a Valkyrie?

What're your guys' thoughts on a Stormlord?

I don't play AM, but was considering starting an army (IG/Elysians/DarkAngels/Custodes); one thing I really wanted to do was load a Stormlord up with 18xHWT-Mortars and use it as a dakkaboat; 60 Mega-Bolter shots, 18x6 Mortars, and 6+3 misc heavy bolter/heavy stubber shots... mathematically the mortars aren't too effective, but it'd be fun.

Also, was thinking about the different regimental traits and such; initially was going to be Tallarn for outflanking, but without the ability to bring in some additional Astropaths (since they can't disembark the turn they come in on the Stormlord), you'd lose a lot of survivability; also, it's expensive CP wise - however, I just read the "Crush Them!" stratagem; which looks great.

Which means, having it on the table turn 1, and using it as a (mainly) stationary firebase w/ support... Vostroyans would add extra range, but Cadians have a great stratagem if you land an unsaved wound randomly with the mortars. Vostroyan also has the +1 to hit for a single vehicle/squad for 1cp, so that's something.

I imagine the rest of the list would be a mobile strike force, such as Ravenwing fliers and Custode bikers - but at the moment, I'm focusing on if a Stormlord+Mortars would even be effective at all.

fe40k wrote:
What're your guys' thoughts on a Stormlord?

It got less cool since the index. I still like it, but I think that turns a lot of people off of it. I normally put all my anti-tank eggs in one basket when I use it. Give it all the sponsons, put a silly number of lascannon HWT inside, use the rest of my army to keep stuff off of it, sprinkle in basilisks, and then be amazed that it always works out as well as it does.

With regards to morale, I've actually started to rate valhallan tactics to be up there with cadian and tallarn for foot guard.

Opponents who have decent firepower and good grasp of strategy will aim to kill 5-7 guardsmen per squad then move on. I find this happens a lot against eldar reapers in particular. With valhallan it usually saves my plasma gun and bolter out of the unit, free for one last turn of damage dealing before they go down.

It also gives you access to Petrovs 45, which can shield a bunch of squads turn 1 from morale. Alongside Petrovs 45 I've been running a unit of 30 conscripts right on the front rank. They advance right down the middle of the table and force the enemy to deal with them, while using go-to-ground and an astropath for psychic barrier. I've found this unit to be great at soaking up anti infantry firepower. In my last game I had a turn of 2+ save conscripts, as they had psychic barrier, go to ground and managed to get in cover

Alpharius Walks wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
So, how important are the screens in 8th edition? I played armored company in 6th-7th, but now it seems like there are too many turn-1 charge threats. Is it possible to succeed with tanks and few/no infantry units? Or is buying/painting 50 basic guardsmen a prerequisite for every list?

(This is for standard 40k, not any particular tournament house rules.)

You need some kind of screen or you will lose against a competent opponent. Some things you might want to consider as a screen, depending upon how many drops you want to add to your army (all tanks can be very low giving you a good chance of getting the +1):

One large conscript squad deployed in a line
Scout sentinels
Space marine scouts if you are comfortable with soup
Infantry squads

Infantry squads work well if you set up an ambush. As long as you don't get stuck in CC a turn 1 charge can work in your favor.

Whatever charges you has to deal with a lot of rapid fire flashlights and plasma. Cyclops are terrifying to most turn 1 charge armies. A SWS with demo charges is another cheap ambush unit.

58% of the time the army going 2nd won their game at LVO. Turn 1 charges are not our problem. Minus 1 to hit penalties being as ubiquitous as lasguns is the #1 problem for IG.

 DoomMouse wrote:
With regards to morale, I've actually started to rate valhallan tactics to be up there with cadian and tallarn for foot guard.

Opponents who have decent firepower and good grasp of strategy will aim to kill 5-7 guardsmen per squad then move on. I find this happens a lot against eldar reapers in particular. With valhallan it usually saves my plasma gun and bolter out of the unit, free for one last turn of damage dealing before they go down.

It also gives you access to Petrovs 45, which can shield a bunch of squads turn 1 from morale. Alongside Petrovs 45 I've been running a unit of 30 conscripts right on the front rank. They advance right down the middle of the table and force the enemy to deal with them, while using go-to-ground and an astropath for psychic barrier. I've found this unit to be great at soaking up anti infantry firepower. In my last game I had a turn of 2+ save conscripts, as they had psychic barrier, go to ground and managed to get in cover

I've come to a similar conclusion as well. Valhallan is a real hidden gem for foot guard. I run lascannons/plasma and that morale mechanic means I usually get a final lascannons shot with every squad. It really helps take an alpha strike on the nose and it holds up better against leadership debuffs. Their order is also niche, but potentially life saving. It can solve one of the most glaring issues Russe's have, having a single model tie them up in combat. Yes, you risk hitting your own tanks, but that's where the Valhallan vehicle trait kicks in and I'd even argue gives a strong reason to take yarrick. If you clear the tank with "fire on my command" and didn't fall back with it, it can now shoot, normally something you could only do with smite. The vehicle trait also pairs really well with footguard if you run russe's for durability reasons. Killing infantry and leman russes is like pulling teeth to begin with, many opponents have stated it's incredibly frustrating realizing that a tank that usually degrades at 7 wounds now only degrades at 3. This is a big deal in my meta at least because I see lots of -1 (two ravenguard and an elder player) they know if they just ping a few wounds most guard tanks can't even hit them after long, so they'll do 5-6 damage and move on, crippling each tank. With Valhalla, you force them to focus fire more which often leads to overkilling single tanks and ultimately gives you more shots in the long run. Maybe not the best idea for tournaments but it absolutely works for most non tourney areas.

I actually run two 30 man conscript blobs. I'm still unsure if it's necessary but with all the first turn charges I deal with I need it. For morale, I run mk 45, which is worth it's weight in gold, a commissar tank, and have been experimenting with yarrick/Lord commissar/command squads for the 3rd bubble. You don't need much with valhallans, but it's nice to have sometimes. What's really nice is most of these valhallan abilities don't cost points, they're just CP being paid on units you were going to take anyways, most which can refund for free with grand strategist. For what it's worth, I find the ld9 commissars and commissar tanks give kind of niche but sometimes useful. My opponents, many of whom read lots of tournament stuff and like to go to local events, will target them whenever possible. I'm not sure if they overestimate the usefulness of LD9 or if it's really that good, but if my opponents consistently hate something in my list it can't be that useless.

For other regiments that have issues with morale, the key thing is knowing when to hold and when to fold, aka when a squad actually merits staying around. For the most part morale matters most in infantry heavy lists. If you're taking bare minimum as a screen with just a mortar to screw the Reaper in ItC, morale isn't that important to you. It's when you actually arm infantry with decent weapons that it becomes key.

The reason why is because battleshock is essentially "free" kills for your opponent. If your whole squad is bare, your opponent is only getting 4 or so points every model that runs. But if you have plasma, heavy weapons, etc. the points these final models represent can Spike to 11-15ptd per wound. This adds up. So for example I usually have a 6 lascannons/plasma squads, if my ability matters half the time to change a wiped squad to say 3 survivors, I'm saving 39pts 3 times. 39pts that is still a lascannon and a plasma which can hit far above it's weight. And that's ignoring things like potentially surviving to hold/contest an objective, or deny crucial killpoints (very important on a per turn basis for ITC).

For the guy running LD 10 guardsmen, I feel you're either seeing confirmation bias or have absolutely awful luck. If you take say 7 casualties, the absolute max for most squads before you start losing key weapons, if you roll a 3 or less you're safe. That's a 50/50 to just straight up ignore morale on a 40pt squad even after 70% casualties. That is a pretty good deal. And if you fail, you're still going to keep at least one of those weapons or the sarge alive another turn.

In order to really nail morale, you need to learn the art of casualty removal. This is why Sarge's and heavy weapons are important in each squad. Your sarge will vary quite a bit on when he's key and when he's just a wound counter. The higher the casualties, the more you need to keep the Sarge, the less, the less risk you have of regretting losing the Sarge. This is where heavy weapons come in. You can take a wound on the weapon "for free" by pulling the loader. The loader should be the last casualty whenever a squad loses 60-80% in a single turn. By pulling the loader last, he does not count as a wound for morale, which means that's one less LD to take. Yes, your weapon team dies first afterwards, but it puts your opponent in a situation where they often need to overkill a Target to ensure it's dead. It will make them choose, punt more shots into a 2-3 man squad in the hopes it finishes them (which at this point in a turn is often non optimal weapons like anti tank or harder hitting blast weapons) or they ignore it and pray you fail morale. With LD 10, you essentially have fight to the death strat as an auto pass for 1cp in most situations. With insane bravery, you can save 2 squads, and if you're really clever/lucky, you can keep a 3rd from running with a command reroll. That's enough to seriously swing itc "kill more" bonuses and deny a full "thousand cuts" as well. This is to say nothing if for example you have options for LD rerolls, like an Inquisitor, which makes it where you have good odds of saving a squad even at 8-9 casualties in a single phase.

Just played a massive game against Death Guard over the weekend. I used a Macharius Vulcan, Banehammer, and Shadowsword with a conqueror, Hellhound, Bullgryn, and a bunch of basic infantry. It was a blast, I had never used multiple super heavies in one list before.

I used Voystroyan doctrines for the first time because I wanted to try out the Stratagem for +1 to hit. I must say, 42" heavy Bolters, 30" storm Bolters on a conqueror are actually really good, and 30" lasguns were pretty enticing! I normally play Catachans for fun but I might switch it up from time to time.

The Banehammer holding my company commanders, Commissar Yarrick, a tech priest, and Bullgryn allowed me to get +1 to the roll off and I got first turn.

Turn 1 my Macharius Vulcan used vengeance for Cadia and did 26 damage to Magnus with slightly above average rolling. And the 15 heavy stubber shots wrecked some poxwalkers. My Shadowsword did 36 damage to a knight crusader, lol. My Banehammer did 7 wounds to Mortarion and killed all but 1 of his deathshroud bodyguards. You can probably figure out how the rest of the game went.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Spoiler:

 DoomMouse wrote:
With regards to morale, I've actually started to rate valhallan tactics to be up there with cadian and tallarn for foot guard.

Opponents who have decent firepower and good grasp of strategy will aim to kill 5-7 guardsmen per squad then move on. I find this happens a lot against eldar reapers in particular. With valhallan it usually saves my plasma gun and bolter out of the unit, free for one last turn of damage dealing before they go down.

It also gives you access to Petrovs 45, which can shield a bunch of squads turn 1 from morale. Alongside Petrovs 45 I've been running a unit of 30 conscripts right on the front rank. They advance right down the middle of the table and force the enemy to deal with them, while using go-to-ground and an astropath for psychic barrier. I've found this unit to be great at soaking up anti infantry firepower. In my last game I had a turn of 2+ save conscripts, as they had psychic barrier, go to ground and managed to get in cover

I've come to a similar conclusion as well. Valhallan is a real hidden gem for foot guard. I run lascannons/plasma and that morale mechanic means I usually get a final lascannons shot with every squad. It really helps take an alpha strike on the nose and it holds up better against leadership debuffs. Their order is also niche, but potentially life saving. It can solve one of the most glaring issues Russe's have, having a single model tie them up in combat. Yes, you risk hitting your own tanks, but that's where the Valhallan vehicle trait kicks in and I'd even argue gives a strong reason to take yarrick. If you clear the tank with "fire on my command" and didn't fall back with it, it can now shoot, normally something you could only do with smite. The vehicle trait also pairs really well with footguard if you run russe's for durability reasons. Killing infantry and leman russes is like pulling teeth to begin with, many opponents have stated it's incredibly frustrating realizing that a tank that usually degrades at 7 wounds now only degrades at 3. This is a big deal in my meta at least because I see lots of -1 (two ravenguard and an elder player) they know if they just ping a few wounds most guard tanks can't even hit them after long, so they'll do 5-6 damage and move on, crippling each tank. With Valhalla, you force them to focus fire more which often leads to overkilling single tanks and ultimately gives you more shots in the long run. Maybe not the best idea for tournaments but it absolutely works for most non tourney areas.

I actually run two 30 man conscript blobs. I'm still unsure if it's necessary but with all the first turn charges I deal with I need it. For morale, I run mk 45, which is worth it's weight in gold, a commissar tank, and have been experimenting with yarrick/Lord commissar/command squads for the 3rd bubble. You don't need much with valhallans, but it's nice to have sometimes. What's really nice is most of these valhallan abilities don't cost points, they're just CP being paid on units you were going to take anyways, most which can refund for free with grand strategist. For what it's worth, I find the ld9 commissars and commissar tanks give kind of niche but sometimes useful. My opponents, many of whom read lots of tournament stuff and like to go to local events, will target them whenever possible. I'm not sure if they overestimate the usefulness of LD9 or if it's really that good, but if my opponents consistently hate something in my list it can't be that useless.

For other regiments that have issues with morale, the key thing is knowing when to hold and when to fold, aka when a squad actually merits staying around. For the most part morale matters most in infantry heavy lists. If you're taking bare minimum as a screen with just a mortar to screw the Reaper in ItC, morale isn't that important to you. It's when you actually arm infantry with decent weapons that it becomes key.

The reason why is because battleshock is essentially "free" kills for your opponent. If your whole squad is bare, your opponent is only getting 4 or so points every model that runs. But if you have plasma, heavy weapons, etc. the points these final models represent can Spike to 11-15ptd per wound. This adds up. So for example I usually have a 6 lascannons/plasma squads, if my ability matters half the time to change a wiped squad to say 3 survivors, I'm saving 39pts 3 times. 39pts that is still a lascannon and a plasma which can hit far above it's weight. And that's ignoring things like potentially surviving to hold/contest an objective, or deny crucial killpoints (very important on a per turn basis for ITC).

For the guy running LD 10 guardsmen, I feel you're either seeing confirmation bias or have absolutely awful luck. If you take say 7 casualties, the absolute max for most squads before you start losing key weapons, if you roll a 3 or less you're safe. That's a 50/50 to just straight up ignore morale on a 40pt squad even after 70% casualties. That is a pretty good deal. And if you fail, you're still going to keep at least one of those weapons or the sarge alive another turn.

In order to really nail morale, you need to learn the art of casualty removal. This is why Sarge's and heavy weapons are important in each squad. Your sarge will vary quite a bit on when he's key and when he's just a wound counter. The higher the casualties, the more you need to keep the Sarge, the less, the less risk you have of regretting losing the Sarge. This is where heavy weapons come in. You can take a wound on the weapon "for free" by pulling the loader. The loader should be the last casualty whenever a squad loses 60-80% in a single turn. By pulling the loader last, he does not count as a wound for morale, which means that's one less LD to take. Yes, your weapon team dies first afterwards, but it puts your opponent in a situation where they often need to overkill a Target to ensure it's dead. It will make them choose, punt more shots into a 2-3 man squad in the hopes it finishes them (which at this point in a turn is often non optimal weapons like anti tank or harder hitting blast weapons) or they ignore it and pray you fail morale. With LD 10, you essentially have fight to the death strat as an auto pass for 1cp in most situations. With insane bravery, you can save 2 squads, and if you're really clever/lucky, you can keep a 3rd from running with a command reroll. That's enough to seriously swing itc "kill more" bonuses and deny a full "thousand cuts" as well. This is to say nothing if for example you have options for LD rerolls, like an Inquisitor, which makes it where you have good odds of saving a squad even at 8-9 casualties in a single phase.

Thanks for the information and thoughts.

Honestly have had a lot of bad luck with morale for my infantry, I have an incredible ability to roll 6's during morale tests. I have been doing well overall in games, just trying to find a way to reduce infantry casualties.

I have been eyeing up that Valhallan Doctrine... very appealing for the infantry to say the least. Must admit though, I typically run a little bit vehicle heavy (Catachan Doctrine + Hellhounds is bloody amazing.) Guess I'll stick with what I'm doing. At some point when I have more infantry I will probably try out Valhallan.

I'd give it a try if I were you. You'd be amazed how much that vehicle ability helps. It's so handy when going second I'm even considering a techpriest, just to ensure my opponents must kill a tank or else it can go back up to full BS from a single HP. Still probably better to just buy another tank, but it's a fun idea at least.

If you do go valhallan, go big or go home. Other than sentinels, the lightest vehicle I'll run is a chimera or manticore profile. The tougher they are to wound and damage the better the trait performs, and since sentinels never degrade they basically have the trait anyways. It really shines with leman russes, nothing quite takes the wind from someone's sails to knock 8 wounds off a leman Russ and watch it fire back like it was nothing.

I will say if you're going Valhalla you are giving up serious alpha strike potential. You build Valhalla planning to go second, with going first sometimes even being a not so great idea with some itc missions. You are building your list to take a punch over anything else, and then hit back back harder. The very definition of a guard list, grinding your opponent down with attrition. I actually worry more about my opponent giving me the first turn these days with ITC missions than going second, even against alpha strike heavy lists. But who's going to give a guard list bristling with plasma, lascannons, and artillery first turn willingly? Since so many ITC bonuses hinge on end of round scoring, going second allows a guard list to know exactly where to advance it's units, how many units it needs to kill, and what bonus it needs to deny. No other regiment can really take the hits like Valhalla can to take advantage of this. The trade off of course, is that Catachan and Cadian lists have such ridiculously high firepower their plan is to just kill the other guy to where taking objectives and bonuses isn't an issue, but going second risks serious issues if you weren't aware of a certain shenanigan the opponent has or they can get melee into your lines. It's a give and a take. Valhalla just fits my style better, but I will be the first to tell you that there is nothing wrong with taking good old Catachans and Cadians. They're tried and true regiments that are very straightforward with lots of advice out there. Meanwhile my Valhallans are more a weird counter meta idea that could easily get screwed over if the meta shifts.

 Cothonian wrote:
This chapter approved stuff/online faq is killing me. Can't keep track of it. My Codex isn't even applicable anymore. (Seriously I was out of country for two months...)

They ever update hard copies? Or even online copies? (I hate digital codex's buy hey, if it works it works)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moving along from my angry rant: Where do I find these points adjustments? Rules errata were easy enough to locate (and were well organized), but I cannot find the points adjustments aside from word of mouth.

The point fixes are in the Chapter Approved book.

The digital copies do update with the most recent points changes (at least the ones I own have). They don't update any of the other FAQ changes - only the points. You have to download a fresh version to get the changes.

Well, some months have passed since I last were following the thread. So I have read the last 20 pages to infuse myself with the latest tactics, and search for my questioning, without finding a clear answer.

What I am wondering is about the most favourable loadouts for line infantry squads. In the published lists for tournaments (or for more casual play) I see in my country, line infantry squads are mostly played barebones : so as a screen and occasional objective grabbers. On the other hand the way I am used to play them is somewhat inherited from the powerblob of late. Sure, I quickly dropped the power weapons, but I kept the lascannons. However with first turn charges (or at least second turn), plus alpha-strikes and such things, I'm questioning about the utility of equipping the squads with a lascannon, despite how good this weapon may be.

Is keeping the squads cheap a move everyone else has done ? Am I simply too much used to my beloved lascannons ?
What I'm thinking of doing now is to keep a heavy weapon team, but a much cheaper heavy bolter, add a boltgun for the sergeant. So that would total 49 points for the squad which is still reasonable, gives them a definite purpose as anti-horde, letting tempestus scions and support tanks the responsibility of hitting hard targets.

Thoughts ?

Always add bolters to the sergeants - point for point it's really good firepower investment over your army.

Barebones squads are good as screens and chaff.

Plasma guns are amazing value firepower on advancing squads. 48pt plasma-bolter squads are good for line infantry. Melta, flamer and grenade launchers are generally superceded by plasma guns in my opinion point for point and not worth considering while plasma exists.

Heavy bolters and mortars are reasonable additions. My problem with them is that they incentivise you not to move so you get max firepower, so you might be missing out on rapid fire lasguns, or getting bodies towards objectives or tying up tanks in CC. Im more of a fan of plasma and lascannons as they can engage targets that infantry squads will struggle to hurt. InTC format heavy weapons are great as they can deny your opponent the reaper secondary objectives.

Lascannon squads are definitely worth it, as they're very durable so should keep the expensive gun firing most of the game. A sniper rifle isn't a bad throw away include on one of these squads too as they will likely be standing still. Cadian tactics will get you the most out of this squad, particularly if you have a few orders floating around to twin link it.

I can't really see the point of power weapons on sergeants - I'd rather just have more guardsmen. If anyone was going to take a power sword or fist, it would make more sense for it to be a company commander as they have more attacks, better WS and opponents will want to try and charge these guys.

In ITC a heavy weapon is a must. To me infantry in competitive play is a screen with obsec that is very effective at clearing other screens. Mortars play into this quite well although you can always experiment with your own preferences and ideas. I personally think plasma is still worth it but if you look at top lists that goes in and out of favor.

So how did Guard do at Adepticon? Was our presence entirely as an ingredient in soup or were there well placing mono Guard armies?

Top 16 had two "Astra Militarum" lists. One was barely more than 1/3 points spent on AM; the rest was BA and Custodes. The other one had a good amount of BA souped in and what I think were bikes?

Wasn't there also a Genestealer cult list with something like a baneblade and hive tyrants splashed in

fe40k wrote:
What're your guys' thoughts on a Stormlord?

I don't play AM, but was considering starting an army (IG/Elysians/DarkAngels/Custodes); one thing I really wanted to do was load a Stormlord up with 18xHWT-Mortars and use it as a dakkaboat; 60 Mega-Bolter shots, 18x6 Mortars, and 6+3 misc heavy bolter/heavy stubber shots... mathematically the mortars aren't too effective, but it'd be fun.

Also, was thinking about the different regimental traits and such; initially was going to be Tallarn for outflanking, but without the ability to bring in some additional Astropaths (since they can't disembark the turn they come in on the Stormlord), you'd lose a lot of survivability; also, it's expensive CP wise - however, I just read the "Crush Them!" stratagem; which looks great.

Which means, having it on the table turn 1, and using it as a (mainly) stationary firebase w/ support... Vostroyans would add extra range, but Cadians have a great stratagem if you land an unsaved wound randomly with the mortars. Vostroyan also has the +1 to hit for a single vehicle/squad for 1cp, so that's something.

I imagine the rest of the list would be a mobile strike force, such as Ravenwing fliers and Custode bikers - but at the moment, I'm focusing on if a Stormlord+Mortars would even be effective at all.

I've run Shadowsword on occasion and depending on your club's meta you may do ok. I never did (I have a very competitive group) and only pull it out for fun knowing full well I'll lose around 1/4 of my armies points in one turn :( If I have it out on the table turn 1 it gets focused down and dies - yes I know it means the rest of my army lives to fight another day yet it is still very demoralizing. I've tried ambushing him so I know I'll get one turn of shooting - which is a hoot 'cause that volcano cannon put's out the hurt on stuff...and then it dies in my opponents turn. So you have to decide how bad is it if your superheavy gets popped turn 1?

1500 pts, max 3 detachments, no duplicate detachments, non-troops max 3 units(even if they split so no 2x3 leman russ) tournament coming up. Considering dusting off my IG again. Bit limited on what I can field(so no storm troopers for example) but I'll be at least trying to paint some more infantry and weapons for this. How does it look?

Battallion: Cadian

company commander(grand strategist, kurov's aquila)
company commander
primaris psyker(psychic barrier, night shroud)

3xinfantry squad(plasma gun, lascannon)
3xinfantry squad(flamer, autocannon)

special weapon squad(3xplasma gun)

spearhead: Cadian

Pask in executioner w/plasma sponson & lascannon
tank commander in punisher w/3xheavy bolters

scout sentinel w/autocannon

leman russ w/battle cannon, heavy bolter
leman russ w/battle cannon, 3xheavy bolter
manticore

Total 1497. 7 CP+recycling quite a few I think. I need to check do I have enough commander models without special gear due to WYSIWYG or do I need to get some power weapons(ugh) there.

Would fallen cadia relic for 1CP be worth it? (originally list btw was supposed to be 2xbattalion+1 spearhead for 10 CP but then I noticed no double detachment so infantry had to be jammed into same battalion) Would be playing once per game. Would feel dirty trying to use every turn despite being RAW.

Unsurprisingly plan is going to be shoot 'em up.

tneva82 wrote:
1500 pts, max 3 detachments, no duplicate detachments, non-troops max 3 units(even if they split so no 2x3 leman russ) tournament coming up. Considering dusting off my IG again. Bit limited on what I can field(so no storm troopers for example) but I'll be at least trying to paint some more infantry and weapons for this. How does it look?

Spoiler:

Battallion: Cadian

company commander(grand strategist, kurov's aquila)
company commander
primaris psyker(psychic barrier, night shroud)

3xinfantry squad(plasma gun, lascannon)
3xinfantry squad(flamer, autocannon)

special weapon squad(3xplasma gun)

spearhead: Cadian

Pask in executioner w/plasma sponson & lascannon
tank commander in punisher w/3xheavy bolters

scout sentinel w/autocannon

leman russ w/battle cannon, heavy bolter
leman russ w/battle cannon, 3xheavy bolter
manticore

Total 1497. 7 CP+recycling quite a few I think. I need to check do I have enough commander models without special gear due to WYSIWYG or do I need to get some power weapons(ugh) there.

Would fallen cadia relic for 1CP be worth it? (originally list btw was supposed to be 2xbattalion+1 spearhead for 10 CP but then I noticed no double detachment so infantry had to be jammed into same battalion) Would be playing once per game. Would feel dirty trying to use every turn despite being RAW.

Unsurprisingly plan is going to be shoot 'em up.

Definitely, go for the extra relic. You have Grand Strategist and the Aquila. I'd drop the sentinel, LR HB side sponsors, and the special weapons squads for some plasma vets and a tech priest if you can squeeze him in.

Quick question:
If I take a Chimera in a Scions detachment do I lose the Scions doctrine or are transports an exception? (Like Valkyries)

In similar way primaris psykers? I can put him on cadians and cadians don't lose rerolls. Whatabout scions?

Oh and were volley guns any good? Converting 9 plasma guns doesn't sound fun plus spam is boring anyway

There is a page in the IG codex, right next to the regimental doctrines, with a list of units that never take away your regiment trait. They cannot get your regiment trait (cadians for example) but they never exclude it from anyone else either.

These units are things like commissars, pyskers, ogryn, fliers, etc. The quickest shortcut is if the unit doesn't have the <regiment> tag, it can probably be taken with any regiment.

The chimera with Stormtroopers is an interesting one however, I think it might actually make you lose the Stormtroopers doctrine, I'll need to grab my book and see.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
There is a page in the IG codex, right next to the regimental doctrines, with a list of units that never take away your regiment trait. They cannot get your regiment trait (cadians for example) but they never exclude it from anyone else either.

These units are things like commissars, pyskers, ogryn, fliers, etc. The quickest shortcut is if the unit doesn't have the <regiment> tag, it can probably be taken with any regiment.

The chimera with Stormtroopers is an interesting one however, I think it might actually make you lose the Stormtroopers doctrine, I'll need to grab my book and see.

Problem I had was paragraph above that which made me wonder which takes precedence.

As for chimera guess it loses doctrine...

More questions. I\ll be having 2 tauroxes. Are they a) easy enough to magnetize b) which one would be? Annoyingly both aren't usable by Scions, just the more expensive one. Then again not that scions really want a ride anyway. But prime would provide decent fire support along it. OTOH taurox is cheaper, twin autocannons still ain't all that bad and could give a lift to infantry which could be handy for objective grabbing. Neither probably are super hot choices but then again I'm not looking for super competive armies anyway.

I actually really like my bog standard taurox, the "party bus" as it's known in my area. In any given game it probably rolls half of all my 6's, so take that anecdotal evidence with a bit of salt that said, it's cheap, fast, surprisingly tough, and doesn't pay too much for twin autocannons. I modeled mine on the turret but you could magnetize them to the hull I guess. Turret shouldn't be hard to magnetize either. I just had no interest in using them for my Stormtroopers so I built it as a basic truck and called it a day.

As for what takes precedence, we have a specific rule on page 132 called "Advisors and Auxilla". It definitely takes precedence. The specific units that do not remove regiment traits are

*Techpriests
*servitors
*Ministorum priests
*Crusaders
*Aeronautical units
*Militarum Auxilla units (ratligs, ogryn, etc)
*Officio Prefectus (commissars
*Pyskers

In Addition, Militarum Tempestus have their own section above it that clearly states that storm roofers only get a doctrine if everything in the detachments has the "Militarum Tempestus" keyword or falls under the "Advisors and Auxilla" rule.

Now this said, just because you can't take chimeras without losing the "Stormtroopers" doctrine, doesn't mean they can't ride in one. They are Astra Militarum infantry, which means they can hitch a ride in one. Heck, they can even bum a ride off a normal Taurox amusingly. So what you would need to do is take a normal IG detachment of some kind with enough units to cover your chimera needs, and then just start the game in them. The real question is why would you, since deepstriking is like a transport with almost 0 downsides and almost guaranteed delivery, considering anything you can't deepstriking to hit probably wouldn't be able to be reached by mechanized infantry anyways.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:


In Addition, Militarum Tempestus have their own section above it that clearly states that storm roofers only get a doctrine if everything in the detachments has the "Militarum Tempestus" keyword or falls under the "Advisors and Auxilla" rule.

Actually latter part can only be guessed from NEXT paragraph. It doesn't mention advisors and auxilia at all. At least I can't find that on my book. Do you by chance have ebook version where it states?

The real question is why would you, since deepstriking is like a transport with almost 0 downsides and almost guaranteed delivery, considering anything you can't deepstriking to hit probably wouldn't be able to be reached by mechanized infantry anyways.

That's what I don't like all that much :( There should be reason to transport them. They wouldn't have designed TRANSPORT for them if there was no reason to. Poor rules writing from GW.