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I was thinking about what stuff could be ported over from AoS into 40k but then I remember a hero battle I had many years ago: we had a Fantasy player who wanted to take part in the battle, so we said "sure why not", but he decided to bring a Vampire Lord with a 1+ save, luckily though I brought the murder sword so his 1+ save and lack of eternal warrior didn't help him much.

But remembering thia got me thinking, with ap modifiers back could we also see 1+ armour saves returning as well? Would people be apposed to 1+ armour?

Personally I wouldn't mind 1+ armour on some super heavies and gargants especially since we always wound on sixes now. What about you?

It would have been great had Terminator Armor had 1+ armor saves. That would help their durability a LOT along with an extra wound.

Why not? terminators should benefit from using cover against small arms fire.

So long as there is in the rules that a roll of 1 always fails, then sure.

But really, meh. It is pretty easily countered in Age of Sigmar, with only the units with re-rollable Armor being the problem units, and even then there is a good selection of weapons available to handle it, especially with Mortal Wounds. I wouln't have a major problem with it, unless it gets abused really badly (but even then that is a player problem).

 mrhappyface wrote:
I was thinking about what stuff could be ported over from AoS into 40k but then I remember a hero battle I had many years ago: we had a Fantasy player who wanted to take part in the battle, so we said "sure why not", but he decided to bring a Vampire Lord with a 1+ save, luckily though I brought the murder sword so his 1+ save and lack of eternal warrior didn't help him much.

But remembering thia got me thinking, with ap modifiers back could we also see 1+ armour saves returning as well? Would people be apposed to 1+ armour?

Personally I wouldn't mind 1+ armour on some super heavies and gargants especially since we always wound on sixes now. What about you?

Any 2+ armor in cover will have a 1+ save already. It kinda doesn't matter if they bring the profile 1+ back.

ERJAK wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I was thinking about what stuff could be ported over from AoS into 40k but then I remember a hero battle I had many years ago: we had a Fantasy player who wanted to take part in the battle, so we said "sure why not", but he decided to bring a Vampire Lord with a 1+ save, luckily though I brought the murder sword so his 1+ save and lack of eternal warrior didn't help him much.

But remembering thia got me thinking, with ap modifiers back could we also see 1+ armour saves returning as well? Would people be apposed to 1+ armour?

Personally I wouldn't mind 1+ armour on some super heavies and gargants especially since we always wound on sixes now. What about you?

Any 2+ armor in cover will have a 1+ save already. It kinda doesn't matter if they bring the profile 1+ back.

Unless they cap saves to a 2+.

I think the +1 is to the roll, not that save value itself. As long as a natural roll of '1' is still a failure, I wouldn't mind.

It would mean that Cover would be relavant for Terminators only against weapons that have AP -1 or highter
But creating the possibility of a unit being immune to all weapons that do no and AP or cause Mortal Wounds should not exist.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/725569.page

 Ratius wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/725569.page

Sorry didn't see that thread.

However I was more asking if straight up 1+ armour saves will return rather than modified 2+ saves.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/725569.page

Sorry didn't see that thread.

However I was more asking if straight up 1+ armour saves will return rather than modified 2+ saves.

Not at all unlikely, however, it'll probably be with the caveat that was posted as the first comment in that thread.

 Yarium wrote:
There will definitely be ways to get a 1+ save. Terminators in cover. However, almost absolutely 100% for sure, saving throws of "1" will still fail. So, in effect, it's a 2+ save that resists being modified a bit.

Because otherwise it would be flying COMPLETELY in the face of anything-can-hurt-anything. ACHA, if you will.

Straight up 1+?
I have a feeling no.
We've seen termy stats and they are 2+
I.e. about as tough as they come.

Does/has AoS set a precedent for this?
Just asking because 8th seems to borrow a few ideas from it.

I still think a 1+ is obtainable with armor + cover saves + special powers but a single unit/character having it as a base? Nah.

I wouldn't mind if 2+ save creatures hiding in sufficient cover could be immune to some shots.

I highly doubt GW goes this route, but I would enjoy it.

 Ratius wrote:
Straight up 1+?
I have a feeling no.
We've seen termy stats and they are 2+
I.e. about as tough as they come.

Does/has AoS set a precedent for this?
Just asking because 8th seems to borrow a few ideas from it.

I still think a 1+ is obtainable with armor + cover saves + special powers but a single unit/character having it as a base? Nah.

Age of Sigmar does have the ability to get a 1+ Armor save, but it is usually the result of stacking spells, artifacts, and Cover all together, as there are very few models with a default 3+ save, and no default 2+ saves that I am aware of. 4+ Armor and extra wounds are the usual go to for representing durability in Age of Sigmar.

The question is IF the 1+ Armor save stacking works, will GW bring in the "falis on a 1" roll like in Warhammer Fantasy?

Return...?

40k has never had 1+ saves. WHFB might have, but not 40k.

 insaniak wrote:
Return...?

40k has never had 1+ saves. WHFB might have, but not 40k.

That's why I specifically referenced a Fantasy Vampire lord, I meant return as in to warhammer as a whole.

 insaniak wrote:
Return...?

40k has never had 1+ saves. WHFB might have, but not 40k.

The official FAQ for 2nd edition about the Psychic power Fortune, specifically stated that a save of 1+ was possible with that elder power!

So yes in a way it did exist.

I used to love my Chaos Knights complete invulnerability to st3 or lower in WHFB. They were the most expensive non monster/character/artillery models in the game however.
Thing was though that everywhere was access to st4+ in every army so they could always be dealt with in someway. In 8th though st4 does not automatically give -1 to armour and it seems armour reduction weapons will be more difficult to come by than a block of 20 halberdiers or crossbowmen so you can't really compare the games systems. If 8th is shaping up how it looks to be, then a 1+ without the caveat that a 1 always fails will be a very very bad idea imo.

Will units naturally have a 1+ armor save? No.

Will units with a 2+ armor save benefit from cover? Yes.

But a roll of a 1 will always fail. It will allow ALL units to benefit from cover, as it could still offset a high Rend value. Those are my guesses anyway.