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"Some form of Dreadnaught like suit / armour."

It's armour that helps keep him alive like a Dreadnaught keeps its occupant alive.

Not that'd I'd ever suggest pretre isn't an infallible deity... that rumour is just correct. It's no big deal, it just makes the tracker less accurate and it's a good resource.

I'd be in for the rules (and they'll obviously repackage some SWA terrain if they did) but I simply won't buy full resin ganger groups...Forgeworld's resin work is pretty terrible (and expensive for what you get).

So without proper plastic/metal support this just wouldn't be a huge watershed for me. I already have the "current" rules from Yaktribe etc.

After reading the carrion throne I'm salivating at a new necromunda game. I would be slightly disappointed if it was identical to the old gangs and settings. Now if it was set in the warrens of terra I would cry with joy for a week

 CragHack wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Does that mean SW:A will only be just another cash grab like Kill Team was?

It was a stand alone game, a rulebook of 200 pages for 30 euros. Osprey puts stand alone rulebooks that are very fun for 16 euros for like 60 pages. How is that a cash grab?
Being a critical customer is a good thing, but sometimes we just ask for impossibles.

I could just write a wall of text, why I would could and do call it a cash grab, but I'm too lazy to argue on the internets. Though my point was that I wouldn't like to see it discontinued, like they did with Kill Team. It's just not nice.

Does this mean that 40k 8th edition will be just another cash grab like 40k 7th edition?

 Knockagh wrote:
After reading the carrion throne I'm salivating at a new necromunda game. I would be slightly disappointed if it was identical to the old gangs and settings. Now if it was set in the warrens of terra I would cry with joy for a week

Again though, that's not Necromunda. Necromunda isn't just a set of skirmish rules, it's a setting, an actual literal location.

Now, personally, I wouldn't mind them introducing some of the Confrontation elements into things, but if they're going to sell a box with "Necromunda" on the front and try to sell it to folk as the return of a beloved classic, it should actually be the return of a beloved classic not a vaguely-related-by-game-mechanics ripoff set on an entirely different planet or with entirely new factions right off the bat.

If GW or FW want to offer me the chance to buy a modern Brats gang I will be all over that, but only if they do justice to the classic setting and gangs first.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Necromunda isn't just a set of skirmish rules, it's a setting, an actual literal location.

Strong point.

The same thing applies - probably even moreso - to Mordheim. I am excited for AoS skirmish ... but it won't be Mordheim. Similarly, SWA is not Necromunda. When I hear that Necomunda will return, I want it to actually be Necromunda.

 judgedoug wrote:
Does this mean that 40k 8th edition will be just another cash grab like 40k 7th edition?

Grocery store selling bread - just another cashgrab!

 Knockagh wrote:
After reading the carrion throne I'm salivating at a new necromunda game. I would be slightly disappointed if it was identical to the old gangs and settings. Now if it was set in the warrens of terra I would cry with joy for a week

Necromunda is an actual setting within the 40k universe.. it has it's own lore and everything.

I know.. let's reboot Gorkamorka.. but.. nobody likes Orks anymore.. so we'll just use Tau.. and.. hm... we need to put it on a planet that isn't all desert so it's more interesting.. Oooh.. a Deathworld.. but it's still Gorkamorka.. oh wait but those types of mechanics are dated too.. so.. let's scrap that and now we'll use specialty dice with explosion symbols.. oh.. and tiny little cards that are extremely impractical to handle, shuffle, read, or store.. needs tons of those.. OH, maybe we should make everything cards and forego the miniatures.. I mean.. nobody even builds models anymore. In fact, we could make it a tablet game, that's what's hot right now!

Sorry Knockagh, that wasn't just aimed at you but all this crap I am seeing from everyone. Ya want a new game.. there's loads of them out there. People aren't excited about specialist games coming back because they expect everything to be different. They want them to come back because it's the parts of the GW lore that got in-between the lines and were super interesting. Is there room for some of the other stuff people think would be neat? Sure, but everyone that is acting like nothing from the original should survive aren't the main crowd for this IMO... and frankly it's a bit selfish (and really dickish if we're being honest) to deprive the people who ARE nostalgic for it just so you guys can have something new and different.

ALSO.. if "anything" would make you cry for a week.. for any reason.. joy included, you might want to get help.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh.. also
For everyone that DOES want gang fights just not in Necromunda.. Check out Void or Urban Mammoth. Seriously it's probably exactly what you want. There's a few others out there and The Drowned Earth KS just wrapped up.. and it's along those lines too.. so.. you have options..

Would we still have this ridiculous discussion that Necromunda isn't Necromunda unless it's happening on Necromunda if GW hadn't unfortunately named the game after the location it was set in?

Just imagine... if it had been called Gang War 40k. Would you still have a leg to stand on, if the name is all you're basing this on?

Or, if GW released a game that was set on Necromunda but used X-wing mechanics... would that be Necromunda then, by your logic?

 Yodhrin wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Does this mean that 40k 8th edition will be just another cash grab like 40k 7th edition?

Grocery store selling bread - just another cashgrab!

No but selling Italian bread (the same bread with sesame seeds stuck to it) sue is a cash grab

what is a sesame anyway?
I don't think anyone really knows.
We never let the seeds grow into a full sesame.
If we keep his up all the sesame will be gone, and in five years we'll all say "What the happened to all the sesame seeds? My buns are blank."
McDonalds will have to change their theme song to "two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles on a ------- bun."

-Mitch Hedberg- Commedian- may he rest in peace ( look him up, he was funny, and acted in a few shows) sorry for the derail resume standard bickering mode

Sorry I think I got the quotes goofed up

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Geifer wrote:

robbienw wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
Esher could be very interesting from a converstion standpoint since they would be the 1st human female models done in plastic by GW.

Not quite! Inquisitor Greyfax, Saint Celestine and the two Geminae got in first >

Technically Sisters of Silence were even earlier.

But that doesn't detract from Escher adding additional, much needed plastic female humans that could be useful for all manner of things.

Ahem, actually the plastic immolator saw 2/3 of a plastic female human

The Witch elves and Sisters of Averlorn would say hi, but I assume you mean "the 1st human female models done in plastic by GW... for 40K". And yes, elves aren't human, but from a conversion standpoint they're bloody close enough!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would we still have this ridiculous discussion that Necromunda isn't Necromunda unless it's happening on Necromunda if GW hadn't unfortunately named the game after the location it was set in?

Just imagine... if it had been called Gang War 40k. Would you still have a leg to stand on, if the name is all you're basing this on?

Or, if GW released a game that was set on Necromunda but used X-wing mechanics... would that be Necromunda then, by your logic?

I already mentioned that for me the aesthetics and lore surrounding it are what drew me in. If they're going to release something that isn't Necromunda.. ie.. not set in Necromunda, not featuring the original gangs, not based on the original concept past the vaguest notion of "gangs fighting" then they would release it as something else.. OH ..what's that? They already did that!


https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Gangs-of-Commorragh-ENG


Though truth be told, this is closer to my satire about Gorkamorka ..

Let me ask a counter question..
Why are any of the anti-Necromunda people so opposed to allowing the original gangs to be re-released? Surely it must have dawned on at least some of you that we can have the original gangs as well as new ones..

 lord_blackfang wrote:
if GW hadn't unfortunately named the game after the location it was set in?

Unfortunately? This is like saying, what if 40k had not been "unfortunately" set in a grim future of constant warfare. Necromunda and Mordheim - as the names the designers chose suggest - are designed around a specific setting.

I don't really get what's wrong with updating the look for the existing gangs. Alot of the updates to classic designs have looked great.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Knockagh wrote:
After reading the carrion throne I'm salivating at a new necromunda game. I would be slightly disappointed if it was identical to the old gangs and settings. Now if it was set in the warrens of terra I would cry with joy for a week

Again though, that's not Necromunda. Necromunda isn't just a set of skirmish rules, it's a setting, an actual literal location.

Now, personally, I wouldn't mind them introducing some of the Confrontation elements into things, but if they're going to sell a box with "Necromunda" on the front and try to sell it to folk as the return of a beloved classic, it should actually be the return of a beloved classic not a vaguely-related-by-game-mechanics ripoff set on an entirely different planet or with entirely new factions right off the bat.

If GW or FW want to offer me the chance to buy a modern Brats gang I will be all over that, but only if they do justice to the classic setting and gangs first.

Well said.

One of the things I loved about Necromunda was the setting and the fluff and how that came through in the gameplay. The sense of a boistrous wild-west town where the gangs might be boozing and partying together one minute and trying to blast hole in each other the next minute. Then there's the sense of exploration and wonder and excitement when your gang uncovers some long forgotten tunnels or some ancient technology that might just give you an edge...

I was excited about SWA until I realized that it might look and play like Necromunda - but it wouldn't be Necromunda.

I've nothing against updated models though if done correctly!

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
I was excited about SWA until I realized that it might look and play like Necromunda - but it wouldn't be Necromunda.

I like SWA a lot - but yeah it's not Necromunda. Separate topic altogether, TBH.

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
I've nothing against updated models though if done correctly!

I mean, does anyone? I suppose it turns on what "update" means. If it means faithfully translating the existing designs into more detailed and dynamic models, I doubt anyone objects. I'm thinking here of, for example, the plastic St. Celestine and Geminae Superia.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would we still have this ridiculous discussion that Necromunda isn't Necromunda unless it's happening on Necromunda if GW hadn't unfortunately named the game after the location it was set in?

Just imagine... if it had been called Gang War 40k. Would you still have a leg to stand on, if the name is all you're basing this on?

Or, if GW released a game that was set on Necromunda but used X-wing mechanics... would that be Necromunda then, by your logic?

I think we would have this ridiculous discussion if the previous title wasn't as specific. There were plenty of people when Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower was released that disputed both on grounds of background (set in Age of Sigmar, not Warhammer Fantasy) and game mechanics (hugely different campaign mechanics and monster diversity stood out) that the new Warhammer Quest was in fact Warhammer Quest.

Which, if we applied your (and GW's) conditions, isn't the case. It's still a dungeon crawl game set in the current Warhammer setting.

That doesn't help anyone who wants the old world back, though. Or those who want a more substantial campaign than Silver Tower offers. Or models that don't look out of place in the old setting. Or support for models that were in the old but are no longer in the new setting. And people who want that have a stake in a new version of the game. Complete newcomers (like me, who likes Silver Tower but never played the old Warhammer Quest) to Warhammer Quest get attracted to the game anyway. It's a modern game, so the models will look the part and the rules should be up to date. The background is completely new to us, regardless of where it is set. So that makes no difference either. The only difference to Necromunda is that there is a functional setting change on the fantasy side which doesn't exist in 40k, so Silver Tower at least has an old setting versus new setting divide to consider.

The only people who have a good reason to complain if a new version of Necromunda is, in fact, a new version of Necromunda, are those who have complete collections themselves (and possibly among their group) and simply don't need any more of the same. For these people, interest is invariably centered around new stuff.

As for the point about game mechanics, while game mechanics can and do change, themes found in those rules should still be accounted for in a new rule set no matter how different it is mechanically to the old system. For example, among GW games Necromunda had a pretty unique vertical component. X-Wing wouldn't account for that. Space is as flat as the Jedi in X-Wing.

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
The Witch elves and Sisters of Averlorn would say hi, but I assume you mean "the 1st human female models done in plastic by GW... for 40K". And yes, elves aren't human, but from a conversion standpoint they're bloody close enough!

No, they don't count. No matter how beautiful your conversion, you will always know there's a filthy elf underneath.

 Lockark wrote:
I don't really get what's wrong with updating the look for the existing gangs. Alot of the updates to classic designs have looked great.

It's been mentioned before, if there is no thematic change and the models still exhibit the same style as the old ones, there may still be a noticeable difference in sculpting technique and scaling that can make new models look off next to old ones. While it doesn't affect me personally, I can see how that might be a problem for others. I certainly try to get a unified look in my collections whenever possible.

Edit: Manchu puts up a good example. Celestine (or Veridyan in my case), so new Sisters, are well executed updates and put the style of the old one into plastic very well. But put Veridyan next to a metal Sister and the size difference is so irritating I'm going to have to put one of them away again because it ruins the overall appearance of the assembled Sisters.

 Manchu wrote:
I suppose it turns on what "update" means. If it means faithfully translating the existing designs into more detailed and dynamic models, I doubt anyone objects. I'm thinking here of, for example, the plastic St. Celestine and Geminae Superia.

I dunno. I think it wouldn't be real Necromunda if you could buy plastic Eschers.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I think it wouldn't be real Necromunda if you could buy plastic Eschers.

Bad faith arguments convince nobody ...

To some people it will only be Necromunda if they do a "Remaster", basically, same background and same miniatures but up to date. They can make it still Necromunda by doing a "Remake". But it will be a different incarnation of Necromunda. So, same theme, same city, but different gangs, new background, changing some things, etc...

As I don't really like Necromunda, not in aesthetic not in background, I'm totally neutral onto this. But they don't need to make a exact carbon copy of Necromunda to be it still a "Necromunda".

 Galas wrote:
To some people it will only be Necromunda if they do a "Remaster", basically, same background and same miniatures but up to date. They can make it still Necromunda by doing a "Remake". But it will be a different incarnation of Necromunda. So, same theme, same city, but different gangs, new background, changing some things, etc...

As I don't really like Necromunda, not in aesthetic not in background, I'm totally neutral onto this. But they don't need to make a exact carbon copy of Necromunda to be it still a "Necromunda".

Then why bother re-releasing Necromunda at all? Why not just release "Hive Gangers" for S:WA? Thats' basically what all these anti-Necromunda folks are chanting for..

 MLaw wrote:

 Galas wrote:
To some people it will only be Necromunda if they do a "Remaster", basically, same background and same miniatures but up to date. They can make it still Necromunda by doing a "Remake". But it will be a different incarnation of Necromunda. So, same theme, same city, but different gangs, new background, changing some things, etc...

As I don't really like Necromunda, not in aesthetic not in background, I'm totally neutral onto this. But they don't need to make a exact carbon copy of Necromunda to be it still a "Necromunda".

Then why bother re-releasing Necromunda at all? Why not just release "Hive Gangers" for S:WA? Thats' basically what all these anti-Necromunda folks are chanting for..

I don't know. Ask the guys that made that Robocop remake in 2014

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I think for a few people it wouldn't be Necromunda unless GW bought all the original books on eBay and repackaged them.

To really be Necromunda it would also have to turn my grey hairs black, make me lose 20 pounds and bring back all my old friends.

If GW could do that then they wouldn't need to create games to get rich....

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Grocery store selling bread - just another cashgrab!

Actually, if you are familiar with the changes to commercial bread baking in 1928 and 1961, that is truer than you might think. (Bread slicing and wrapping machinery and the Chorleywood process, respectively - ironically, the Chorleywood process was intended to help keep smaller scale bakeries competitive - but then somebody quickly realized that there was no reason that it could not be applied to large scale dough fermentation as well.)

Because I am a gamer, and thus know lots of random crap.

The Auld Grump

 MLaw wrote:
Then why bother re-releasing Necromunda at all? Why not just release "Hive Gangers" for S:WA? Thats' basically what all these anti-Necromunda folks are chanting for..

And I wonder why you don't just hit eBay if you literally want nothing else but a repackage of the original game.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Then why bother re-releasing Necromunda at all? Why not just release "Hive Gangers" for S:WA? Thats' basically what all these anti-Necromunda folks are chanting for..

And I wonder why you don't just hit eBay if you literally want nothing else but a repackage of the original game.

While E-bay is really neat, I don't think it is currently capable of creating new sculpts, new terrain, creating the new release surge of community players, or new and updated material. We'll not mention the limited availability of rules, miniatures, and terrain from the original sets.

You might also note, I never called for a repackage. I am hoping that they clean up the old system, condense down a lot of the material that you had to hunt across magazines for, and expand upon some of the ranges that need it. I already have the original rules and a Delaque gang. While I would be okay with having the old sculpts available, I would fully expect them to take the same steps they did with Bloodbowl.

I have to ask.. do you go into Chinese restaurants and demand that they start making cheeseburgers because that is really how you're coming across. This thread is specifically about Necromunda.. IF GW wanted to go a different route and not willfully resurrect a more generic sci-fi gangfight style game, they would take your earlier advice and release "Warhammer 40,000 Gang War" etc. BUT.. that's not what they're doing.. if they're calling it Necromunda specifically, that means they don't agree with you (at least not in full). What exactly are you hoping for? The old rules but new models? New rules, new models, new setting? All I see you saying is what you don't want .. which is usually what someone else just said they do want.. so I am kinda thinking you don't care about Necromunda in any capacity so much as you are really just looking to argue. You did point out that you think the old mechanics are dated too (I am pretty sure that was you) so again.. why stick with GW on this at all? There are SEVERAL games out there that allow you to have rival gangs fight in a science fiction setting. So.. whatever your point is, I'm not getting it.. and since this is all rumor.. I think I've stopped caring.

Great news with a Necromunda re-release.. hope they do it justice!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
And I wonder why you don't just hit eBay if you literally want nothing else but a repackage of the original game.

Manchu already said that bad faith arguments will get you nowhere, and yet there you go...

 MLaw wrote:

Then why bother re-releasing Necromunda at all? Why not just release "Hive Gangers" for S:WA?

If Specialist Games were smart... They could start a series of games called Hive War: XXXXXX. Obviously the first game out would be Hive War: Necromunda, followed by Hive War: Terra with stuff from Carrion Throne, followed by other titles.

Each box would have the same basic rule set, but add different gangs with different skills tables, new scenarios perhaps related to the specific world, perhaps an expanded campaign and additional material.

I was assuming that is what GW was going to do with Shadow War, but apparently it was a one and done with a very weak campaign system. Could have been a great series of games, but GW dropped the ball again when it could have been printing money.

T

I have to agree, I thought that's what the "Shadow War" brand would be, with each new box being a different warzone.

Shame how that turned out.

 Geifer wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I don't really get what's wrong with updating the look for the existing gangs. Alot of the updates to classic designs have looked great.

It's been mentioned before, if there is no thematic change and the models still exhibit the same style as the old ones, there may still be a noticeable difference in sculpting technique and scaling that can make new models look off next to old ones. While it doesn't affect me personally, I can see how that might be a problem for others. I certainly try to get a unified look in my collections whenever possible.

Edit: Manchu puts up a good example. Celestine (or Veridyan in my case), so new Sisters, are well executed updates and put the style of the old one into plastic very well. But put Veridyan next to a metal Sister and the size difference is so irritating I'm going to have to put one of them away again because it ruins the overall appearance of the assembled Sisters.

But necromunda has so few models why would you want to use your old along side your new? One box would replace your whole gang in theory. That's why I don't get why this is a issue.

In the sister example that's only a issue because they didn't replace the whole range. One plastic box of ten would replace your whole old gang anyway.

 Lockark wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I don't really get what's wrong with updating the look for the existing gangs. Alot of the updates to classic designs have looked great.

It's been mentioned before, if there is no thematic change and the models still exhibit the same style as the old ones, there may still be a noticeable difference in sculpting technique and scaling that can make new models look off next to old ones. While it doesn't affect me personally, I can see how that might be a problem for others. I certainly try to get a unified look in my collections whenever possible.

Edit: Manchu puts up a good example. Celestine (or Veridyan in my case), so new Sisters, are well executed updates and put the style of the old one into plastic very well. But put Veridyan next to a metal Sister and the size difference is so irritating I'm going to have to put one of them away again because it ruins the overall appearance of the assembled Sisters.

But necromunda has so few models why would you want to use your old along side your new? One box would replace your whole gang in theory. That's why I don't get why this is a issue.

In the sister example that's only a issue because they didn't replace the whole range. One plastic box of ten would replace your whole old gang anyway.

Only reason I would have to use my old Delaque gang is $$. I wouldn't want to re-buy that particular gang. Having the classics available for even a limited release would mean I could outfit them to match the new loadouts as well. Then any other gangs I would run the new plastics. TBH though, for Cawdor or Redemptionists I would probably consider Flagellant + Frostgrave heads and other bits I have in huge supply.. Van Saar, Escher, Orlock, Enforcers, Goliath, Ratskin, and characters I would probably go with whatever's new.. though I do still have a gunslinger with a pair of autopistols or somesuch.


RE: Warzones etc.. The old Necromunda did this by way of Outlanders and introducing other factions in the same way it had done Mordheim Warbands.. gathering all of those little fringe factions in a more manageable way is what I was calling for in my earlier post. If they have to do it in little boxed sets, that's cool, I just would really prefer to not have to buy a bunch of magazines, expansion boxes, one off books, etc as I am running out of bookshelf space.
Here's why I think they won't do the proposed warzone idea. While they're turning a new leaf it would seem, they do still tend to prefer low-hanging fruit that requires little IP development or conceptual design. It's one thing to simply revamp existing designs to match current trends, it's an entirely different matter to materialize wholly new models, factions, lore, fluff, maps, and a fanbase all from nothing but air and aspirations. Even within these boardgames and one-offs, they've still adhered to existing ideas. Hell, the biggest things to happen to 40k over the last few months IMO have all involved old ideas. Genestealer Cult, Costodes, Restartes, Knight Titans.. In the meantime, Orks are still using Gorkamorka era deffkopta, buggies, and wartrakks (I think that artillery is from around that period as well). Bloodbowl was re-released.. and from what I can tell (I don't play it) it was basically a "remastered" (to steal terminology from a few posts up) version of the old kit.
So.. no.. I don't think they'll start over fresh. From a business standpoint, intellectual property is the most precious thing they, as a company, own. Expanding on it, sure.. they do that. Ignoring it? Nah.. probably not.

..oh I just realized we're going to see this exact same conversation again for Mordheim, Epic, BFG, and whatever else they bring out (please be Gorkamorka!!!)..