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streetsamurai wrote: Necro is probably as close as it gets as a perfect game. But I would like to see a few of the old gangs either dropped or serioulsy redesigned. Van Saar and Orlocks were terribly bland, and Cawdor became redundant when the much cooler redemptionist were released.
Yeah, I have to agree. Cawdor had a lot of potential if it hadn't just been Redemptionists Lite. The whole medieval vibe was cool in contrast to the sci-fi/punk/Mad Max look of some of the other gangs.
I started with Cawdor back in the day and was quickly disappointed. So many wonderful combat talents, and most of the metal models were clutching rifles into their chests...
Manchu wrote: Well maybe this is an opportunity to incorporate more of the Redempionist stuff into Cawdor.
What gangs would you guys most like to see in the boxed set?
They won't do Escher as that will be a major add on sale later, so my guess will be reskinned goliaths and Orlock. Van Saar could be easily made from GSC figs. Escher as I said would be too good of an added sale to put them in the box. Cawdor could be a contender for the box. But pretty sure they won't put skinheads in the main box just to not get any beef over "white surpremacy" that some idiot would see and try and create a media storm. Oddly enough he would be guilty of stereotyping little bald plastic men .
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
Manchu wrote: Well maybe this is an opportunity to incorporate more of the Redempionist stuff into Cawdor.
What gangs would you guys most like to see in the boxed set?
I think they're going to have to either further define the two and find a way to really make them stand on their own identities without the bleedover the commonalities causes. That or fold them into one gang.. I dunno..
For a boxed starter I would hope to see Orlock and Van Saar. Why? Because they are polar opposites. I would like Arbites in the boxed set because.. for reasons.. but I think that would make the game seem like "cops and robbers" to the uninitiated.. and getting two gangs that are fundamentally different just makes sense.
Goliath and Delaque would be another option.. and maybe even a better choice but I have a Delaque gang so I went with selfish motivations Removing that, they're a fairly ostentatious pairing and really speak to the over the top nature of the game. Where else can you find Deathklok and Right Said Fred bashing it out?
I remember the last game for the biggest Necromunda campagn that I ever ran - thirty players.
The last game was Cawdor and Redemptionists vs. everyone else - as they tried to blow up the grav generators that kept the Hive standing.
They were beaten in the absolute last possible round - with literally one more roll needed to kill everyone in the Hive.
This was long before 9-11 made such a game... distasteful.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
That would be interesting, but it would muddy the "gang warfare" part of the game by making one of the starting forces not be a gang, making them a police unit with set weapons and equipment.
Orlocks vs Goliath is an obvious choice, but Cawdor vs Escher, or Delaque vs Escher would also be interesting.
streetsamurai wrote: Necro is probably as close as it gets as a perfect game. But I would like to see a few of the old gangs either dropped or serioulsy redesigned. Van Saar and Orlocks were terribly bland, and Cawdor became redundant when the much cooler redemptionist were released.
Yeah, I have to agree. Cawdor had a lot of potential if it hadn't just been Redemptionists Lite. The whole medieval vibe was cool in contrast to the sci-fi/punk/Mad Max look of some of the other gangs.
Agree. I loved the originals game but I hope it's revamped. I understand people saying necromunda is the setting they feel embodies the game but for me the game was gang warfare in a hive environment. It's that aesthetic I want returned to a game format. Having said that I wouldn't be annoyed if it can out as was of old. Mainly because if they change BFG I will cry for a week for all the wrong reasons.
Sort the crap scenarios and that's the worst thing solved.
Personally, I absolutely hate the run away strength that gangs go through. When people are firing BS6 heavy stubbers ignoring one point of cover the game falls apart - so I'd prefer slower progression, more juves (which also progress slower, without a free advance over gangers) and more injuries results on the injury table, which are characterful without screwing guys over when they are injured.
Make it a game of survival rather than super humans running around.
Maybe that's just me
Yeah, I'd be happy with that too. Making juves really have to earn their crust adds value to gangers too. Drop the XP increase bonuses a bit and curb the super-gang tendency. Make it more about equipment and health. The two often go hand in hand. Lobo-chip for head wound etc.
And I always found it funny when your Blind in one eye dual meleé no guns Juve somehow managed to get a BS advance. Not saying there should be a correlation between action in game and types of advances but it sometimes was a bit funny that way.
I'd also add for those complaining that Orlocks were boring. They're a cypher gang. They all are in a way. You make them your own, recruit them, arm them, name them, write up some back story if you like. Then some punk Juve gets in a lucky dig and you roll badly on serious injuries, lets see how little you care for them now. You're furious! You're gonna kill that little punk Juve, its personal now man!
Ah, Necromunda is the best.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Redemptionists and Cawdor are not the same.
If you want a gang of Bolter wielding, hard-as-nails bulldogs who never back down, then go Cawdor.
If you want an angry pitchfork mob led by a rabble rousing pyromaniac then go redemption.
I can see them dropping Goliath from the box set cause the whole muscular S&M look just isnt cool. Orlock vs Escher isn't as marketable cause they'd get asked if its some sort of gender based conflict thing. It just wouldn't be worth the potential negative publicity.
I could see Delaque being a bigger part of the story and them going Orlock vs Delaque on the box set. Playing up the whole industrial conflict between those rival houses as the little scenario pack.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/20 18:38:46
Classic Necromunda's core rules are 2nd edition 40k.
I'm hoping that a new Necromunda would be based on 8th edition 40k core rules, and not just a reprint of the old rules.
adamsouza wrote: Classic Necromunda's core rules are 2nd edition 40k.
I'm hoping that a new Necromunda would be based on 8th edition 40k core rules, and not just a reprint of the old rules.
Sort the crap scenarios and that's the worst thing solved.
Personally, I absolutely hate the run away strength that gangs go through. When people are firing BS6 heavy stubbers ignoring one point of cover the game falls apart - so I'd prefer slower progression, more juves (which also progress slower, without a free advance over gangers) and more injuries results on the injury table, which are characterful without screwing guys over when they are injured.
Make it a game of survival rather than super humans running around.
Maybe that's just me
Yeah, I'd be happy with that too. Making juves really have to earn their crust adds value to gangers too. Drop the XP increase bonuses a bit and curb the super-gang tendency. Make it more about equipment and health. The two often go hand in hand. Lobo-chip for head wound etc.
And I always found it funny when your Blind in one eye dual meleé no guns Juve somehow managed to get a BS advance. Not saying there should be a correlation between action in game and types of advances but it sometimes was a bit funny that way.
I'd also add for those complaining that Orlocks were boring. They're a cypher gang. They all are in a way. You make them your own, recruit them, arm them, name them, write up some back story if you like. Then some punk Juve gets in a lucky dig and you roll badly on serious injuries, lets see how little you care for them now. You're furious! You're gonna kill that little punk Juve, its personal now man!
Ah, Necromunda is the best.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Redemptionists and Cawdor are not the same.
If you want a gang of Bolter wielding, hard-as-nails bulldogs who never back down, then go Cawdor.
If you want an angry pitchfork mob led by a rabble rousing pyromaniac then go redemption.
I can see them dropping Goliath from the box set cause the whole muscular S&M look just isnt cool. Orlock vs Escher isn't as marketable cause they'd get asked if its some sort of gender based conflict thing. It just wouldn't be worth the potential negative publicity.
I could see Delaque being a bigger part of the story and them going Orlock vs Delaque on the box set. Playing up the whole industrial conflict between those rival houses as the little scenario pack.
We live in a world where Mad Max movies are still a thing so I think Goliath gangs still have great potential.
If anything Orlocks are probably the most aggressively dated of the gangs visually. Rob Liefield re-imagines The Warriors doesn't have a lot of legs these days. They'd be very easy to tweak in to something slightly more relevant though.
I think Goliath/ Orlock is still the most likely starter.
theCrowe wrote: Orlock vs Escher isn't as marketable cause they'd get asked if its some sort of gender based conflict thing. It just wouldn't be worth the potential negative publicity.
Dude, it's 2017! You're more likely to get the "you didn't put Escher in the box because you're misogynist jerks" negative publicity. And that's pretty much a guarantee, rather than some 'misinterpretation' of domestic violence.* Wouldn't kill GW to make some plastic female figs and throw them in the big show. Cuz in the grim darkness of the far future there's only dudes.
First off, I'll say I don't expect to see Necromunda by Xmas. At least not a proper release. Maybe GW has there stuff better to gather than I think, but no. When they re-release it and hopefully is something more than just a terrain bundle, I hope it is updated. I don't just mean new models and cleaned up rules, but more flavour. Necromunda's strength and weakness is that all the gangs are pretty much the same, but only slightly different. The comments about SWA and Mordheim really stuck a chord with me. The gangs have to be more than slightly different. Yes, the original was successful in it's day with that formula...
...but for GW to re-release it, it has to be successful to them now. Maybe there is little value in resulting the 6 gangs because they don't feel they'll get their money back...or not enough in return. (Remember GW is a publicly traded company and not just cool guys making neat toys for you and I.) I do think that SWA has opened their eyes a bit to this market. The easy cash grab would be a reprint of Underhive and build to order Necro gangs. It might be hard to fathom, but the best possible case for GW might be a $50 Necromunda book and letting you buy other company's minis. And the reason is that they would have to make at least two gangs in plastic, with the idea they might make all 6, without knowing if there was a demand for that. A lot of you have said you already have minis and don't really need anymore, and that's GW's fear. On the flipside, I really want to see Steve Bundle make me an Escher gang post-Greyfax model. I think that new sculpts of old gangs would have a lot of old players putting their metal gangs in permanent display if we got stuff the quality of GSC and the Gathering Storm personalities. But I really think what will get GW o do Necro right is figuring out how those gangs might fit into 40K proper. You the Necromunda player might not care about that, but GW needs to sell this figures to more than a second tier filler game to justify "plastic gangs for everyone".
Iain.
* Escher's thing actually is a gender based conflict.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/20 19:56:16
adamsouza wrote: Classic Necromunda's core rules are 2nd edition 40k.
I'm hoping that a new Necromunda would be based on 8th edition 40k core rules, and not just a reprint of the old rules.
Haven't we lost enough game systems to random charges already?
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
adamsouza wrote: Classic Necromunda's core rules are 2nd edition 40k.
I'm hoping that a new Necromunda would be based on 8th edition 40k core rules, and not just a reprint of the old rules.
Haven't we lost enough game systems to random charges already?
If you want to play the old version, you can do so already. I want an updated one.
I would actually really like random charges to be in, it would solve a lot of problems - however I can't see them releasing SW:A as is and then completely changing Necromunda. That would be bizarre
adamsouza wrote: Classic Necromunda's core rules are 2nd edition 40k.
I'm hoping that a new Necromunda would be based on 8th edition 40k core rules, and not just a reprint of the old rules.
Haven't we lost enough game systems to random charges already?
If you want to play the old version, you can do so already. I want an updated one.
You got one. It's called Shadow War : Armageddon.
I personally hope they keep the setting the same and give us updated gang plastics. And Arbites please. Proper Arbites, not Enforcers or any other BS...
We just had a Bloodbowl goblin team released. It's pretty apparent that GWs threshold for being happy to produce plastic kits has hit an all time low.
Fitting in their schedule is probably a bigger concern then getting their money's worth on a handful of Necromunda gangs in plastic.
Wishlisting:
- A setting based on Necromunda (i.e. with "ordinary" people, gangs, etc. - not 40k soldiers) - but not necessarily Hive Primus
- A:SW-ruleset but improved/tweaked and with a lot more equipment/weapons available and better/deeper campaign system.
- Atleast some of the original gangs + some sort of Uphivers (Spyrers/Brats), perhaps an upgrade set with backslick heads, fancy wigs, etc.)
4 standard gangs:
- Goliaths, although but I think they should be less "Tom of Finland" and more Mad Max:
Spoiler:
Also, their juves would make perfect "Witness this!"-minis - Van Saar, but with a lot more hitech gear.
- Cawdor can be combined with Redemptionists (or even be replaced with an upgrade pack).
- Delaque just needs a lot of the Genestealer cult shotguns, shaved Rutger Hauer Hitchhikers are cool...
2 of the original gangs replaced with a basic ganger sprue (and adding females among other gangs, perhaps even Goliaths...).
- Orlocks could be replaced with a basic ganger sprue.
- Escher was/is my favorite gang - but I could live with female gangers in all gangs instead (with the option to combine them to an Escher gang).
Additional material
- More plastic terrain
- Rules for Flora and Fauna
- Rules for Inquisition
- Rules for Cults (Genestealer, Chaos, Death, etc.)
- Rules for Adeptus Arbites
- Rules for citizen riots
- Separate upgrade sprues for weapons and equipment (even Mung vases?)
- 2 completely new gangs approx two months after the initial release
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/20 20:41:54
The metal Arbites were great...and I never had the chance to pick them up back in the day. Sign me up for those too.
Streamline a few things, but keep the rules mostly as is. They should have some more detail than 40k proper. Though, frankly, they made good rules for small scale 40k games as originally intended once you took one or two of the cards out of it.
adamsouza wrote: Classic Necromunda's core rules are 2nd edition 40k.
I'm hoping that a new Necromunda would be based on 8th edition 40k core rules, and not just a reprint of the old rules.
Yeah, RT and 2nd edition rules of 40k were more suited to a skirmish game. The rules of AoS/8th/7th edition of 40k really aren't good to a Skirmish-scale game. At least not to a one with a good amount of tactical deept and freedom of choice.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
adamsouza wrote: Classic Necromunda's core rules are 2nd edition 40k.
I'm hoping that a new Necromunda would be based on 8th edition 40k core rules, and not just a reprint of the old rules.
Are you nuts?
Yeah, I don't see that working out too well. 8th is shaping up to be a great battle game but it has some distinct limitations at skirmish scale. You have to completely gut and redo morale for a start. Then, what stat do you check for avoiding falls? Also, what about blasts and templates; for unit-scale combat d6 auto hits on a unit in range works out fine for a flamer, but when every opposing model is effectively a single unit? Either you have extreme overkill or you have to re-work target selection entirely for just those specific guns.
Alternating model activation for combats could work out OK though.
Still, any adaptation of 8th would have to be just that; an adaptation, with all that entails in terms of experimental ideas not necessarily working out as desired. The SW: A ruleset though is basically the final form of a mature ruleset that's been evolving independently for years.
On the topic of a returning Necromunda; am I the only one that would like to see more low-tech gear in the game? I mean I get why lasguns are pretty common but stuff like real boltguns should be rare, not on starter gang lists, and even lasguns and autoguns should be the "fancy" option for gangs flush with cash, with locally smithed semiauto pistols and rifles being the budget option.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
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Removing that, they're a fairly ostentatious pairing and really speak to the over the top nature of the game. Where else can you find Deathklok and Right Said Fred bashing it out?
