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Yeha!

http://i.imgur.com/Dz4mUWl.jpg

So much info to glean from that:

1. Explosions are still a thing, and are hilarious
2. The thunder strike gauntlet is *horrifying*
3. RFBC is two battle cannons, which is rather nice
4. stepping on peons is suddenly quite attractive with 12 S8 attacks at AP2, unless they mean you get to roll three times to get a single hit for each attack (which isn't bad either)
5. Fly is a keyword which skyfire-esque weapons
6. Ironstorm isn't half bad now
7. Thermal cannon gets better the larger the number of targets in the unit
8. The Gatling cannon lost effective rending

If the imperial variants can chop and change like they should have all along, my joy is actually going to overflow.

Thoughts?

over all I think it's pretty solid, I think the thermal cannon is gonna be the "winner" of this edition.

 malamis wrote:
3. RFBC is two battle cannons, which is rather nice

Well it was always 2 battle cannons in 40k. 3 slightly weaker PA mulching battle cannons in 30k.

7. Thermal cannon gets better the larger the number of targets in the unit

This was leaked already with FW sheet.

New stomp mechanic is leagues better than the old one.

It also gives us an insight into the AA and skyfire rules. +1 to hit against FLY keyword units. Which is really awesome as it means Skyfire weapons can also be used against Jump Infantry and presumably Skimmers with greater effect.

 Deadshot wrote:
It also gives us an insight into the AA and skyfire rules. +1 to hit against FLY keyword units. Which is really awesome as it means Skyfire weapons can also be used against Jump Infantry and presumably Skimmers with greater effect.

So basically flight might be DISADVANTAGE in terms of being hit. Or is there common rule giving flyers some protection? Helldrake doesn't have so as it is looks like normal units shoot them normally, skyfire gets a bonus...

The advantage is insane speed and ability to disengage and shoot.

tneva82 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
It also gives us an insight into the AA and skyfire rules. +1 to hit against FLY keyword units. Which is really awesome as it means Skyfire weapons can also be used against Jump Infantry and presumably Skimmers with greater effect.

So basically flight might be DISADVANTAGE in terms of being hit. Or is there common rule giving flyers some protection? Helldrake doesn't have so as it is looks like normal units shoot them normally, skyfire gets a bonus...

Well, it does get a -1 To Hit vs ground targets. So for example, a BS4+ Guardsman with Quad Gun hits a FLY unit on 3+ but everyone else on 5+. And as someone mentioned, the advantage is that Heldrakes can cross the whole board in a single move (and if Baleflamers are Assault Weapons, that's 30", shoot D6 Str 6 AP 3 shots, charge 2D6". Which works to average of 34" move and 7" charge, meaning you can shoot a target up to about 42" away assuming 12" for Baleflamer and charge anything within 32-42" as well)

 koooaei wrote:
The advantage is insane speed and ability to disengage and shoot.

Yeah but in terms of being hit you would be better off not being flyer.

Kinda weird being very fast gives you no protection-


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
Well, it does get a -1 To Hit vs ground targets. So for example, a BS4+ Guardsman with Quad Gun hits a FLY unit on 3+ but everyone else on 5+. And as someone mentioned, the advantage is that Heldrakes can cross the whole board in a single move (and if Baleflamers are Assault Weapons, that's 30", shoot D6 Str 6 AP 3 shots, charge 2D6". Which works to average of 34" move and 7" charge, meaning you can shoot a target up to about 42" away assuming 12" for Baleflamer and charge anything within 32-42" as well)

Yes but guardsmen with lascannon will be hitting on flyer on 4+. Basically fly rule gives you no help in terms of getting hit. Only effect is bonus enemy gets at times.

And wasn't commenting anything about movement bonuses. Just being hit.

Nice to see it can still double up on any of the ranged weapons.

tneva82 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
The advantage is insane speed and ability to disengage and shoot.

Yeah but in terms of being hit you would be better off not being flyer.

Kinda weird being very fast gives you no protection-


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
Well, it does get a -1 To Hit vs ground targets. So for example, a BS4+ Guardsman with Quad Gun hits a FLY unit on 3+ but everyone else on 5+. And as someone mentioned, the advantage is that Heldrakes can cross the whole board in a single move (and if Baleflamers are Assault Weapons, that's 30", shoot D6 Str 6 AP 3 shots, charge 2D6". Which works to average of 34" move and 7" charge, meaning you can shoot a target up to about 42" away assuming 12" for Baleflamer and charge anything within 32-42" as well)

Yes but guardsmen with lascannon will be hitting on flyer on 4+. Basically fly rule gives you no help in terms of getting hit. Only effect is bonus enemy gets at times.

And wasn't commenting anything about movement bonuses. Just being hit.

The bonus of not being hit is the advantage of being able to charge across the entire table and waste the enemy before it gets a shot off. We also haven't seen the Flyer rules, which might still have a rule similar to Hard To Hit, as in maybe all non-Skyfire has a -1 to Hit? So that Guardsman needs a 5+ instead?

 Deadshot wrote:
The bonus of not being hit is the advantage of being able to charge across the entire table and waste the enemy before it gets a shot off. We also haven't seen the Flyer rules, which might still have a rule similar to Hard To Hit, as in maybe all non-Skyfire has a -1 to Hit? So that Guardsman needs a 5+ instead?

We got core rules leaked I think. Dont' see one there. And at least chaos heldrake has no bespoke(another theory before leaks. bespoke rules). That's my point. So far we have seen nothing that would indicate flyers would be harder to hit than non-flyers.

Taking into consideration that tau suits have Flying tag i'd not expect it to grant to-hit penalties.

Essentially flyers are back to being 5th edition style, where we had the Vendetta and other sorts being skimmer sorts.

 koooaei wrote:
Taking into consideration that tau suits have Flying tag i'd not expect it to grant to-hit penalties.

Good point which leaves it to be bespoken rule which means either no such thing or heldrake got nerfed in that department and it now is easier to hit than other fliers. Which means it's not due to lack of speed or other fliers will be like 40"! At which point might almost be "put anywhere you want each turn" as boards are too small for max movement to really matter.

...but waaaait a sec. Weren't fliers supposed to have min movement? No such thing on heldrake so he bit different to other fliers there?

It's got decent mellee capabilities also. It might have it's role repurposed. I'd actually not expect something like a vendetta or a dakkabomber to be able to really fight in mellee. They might be able to ram something with 6+ to-hits and a couple attacks but than they'd be forced to move away or crash. Another fun tactics that may be. You can crash purposefully and hope for that 6 to explode.

Kamikadze orks incoming!

tneva82 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
The bonus of not being hit is the advantage of being able to charge across the entire table and waste the enemy before it gets a shot off. We also haven't seen the Flyer rules, which might still have a rule similar to Hard To Hit, as in maybe all non-Skyfire has a -1 to Hit? So that Guardsman needs a 5+ instead?

We got core rules leaked I think. Dont' see one there. And at least chaos heldrake has no bespoke(another theory before leaks. bespoke rules). That's my point. So far we have seen nothing that would indicate flyers would be harder to hit than non-flyers.

I didn't think we'd got the full rules, there's nothing on Infantry, transports, unit keywords. It just says how to move, shoot and assault. There's surely a lot more to the core rules than that.

 koooaei wrote:
New stomp mechanic is leagues better than the old one.

Definitely. It made it so that anything with Stomp could hurt literally anything in melee up to a foot away, which was ultimately silly.

Plus if you double up on range weapons, you're making the choice of less reliable melee and that's a good thing.

We haven't seen the data sheet for any true flyer yet. They said in one of the FAQs that there will be a -1 to hit for some slower flyers, and possibly hinted that there might be a -2 for faster ones (maybe razorwing or crimson hunters?) I imagine these will be included on the units datasheets

Edit: actually just seen the heldrake data sheet and this doesn't appear to be the case... Maybe there are some rules regarding fly that haven't been leaked yet? Or flyers are just easy to hit this edition

 Deadshot wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
The bonus of not being hit is the advantage of being able to charge across the entire table and waste the enemy before it gets a shot off. We also haven't seen the Flyer rules, which might still have a rule similar to Hard To Hit, as in maybe all non-Skyfire has a -1 to Hit? So that Guardsman needs a 5+ instead?

We got core rules leaked I think. Dont' see one there. And at least chaos heldrake has no bespoke(another theory before leaks. bespoke rules). That's my point. So far we have seen nothing that would indicate flyers would be harder to hit than non-flyers.

I didn't think we'd got the full rules, there's nothing on Infantry, transports, unit keywords. It just says how to move, shoot and assault. There's surely a lot more to the core rules than that.

Infantry? What it needs. Everything works same way basically. Transports are bespoken. Unit keywords apart from some common ones like fly for movement are based on bespoken rules. Like "this affects all X within 6"" etc.

That's the renegade knight, not the chaos knight. Thankfully it confirms what I thought the rapid battlecannon would be.

Combined with the melee rules leak it would appear stomps actually got nerfed - you get 4 attacks to split between available weapons as you see fit.

So 2 with the chainsword, 1 with the fist, and 1 becoming 3 with the feet.

Means knights have to do some thinking I guess

 malamis wrote:
Combined with the melee rules leak it would appear stomps actually got nerfed - you get 4 attacks to split between available weapons as you see fit.

So 2 with the chainsword, 1 with the fist, and 1 becoming 3 with the feet.

Means knights have to do some thinking I guess

Yes but you would assume you wouldn't be stomping the same thing you are stabbing:
Chainsword + Gauntlet for tons of damage on big models,
Stomping for tons of wounds on lots of little models.

I don't think it is too much of a nerf though, on the charge you get 5 attacks so 15 S8 AP-2 DD3 against those units that would normally tarpit us (although now we can just walk over them, which is nice).

 mrhappyface wrote:
...on the charge you get 5 attacks...

I can't see a +1 attack on the charge in the core rules anymore. Wasn't that removed, and now you just get to strike first?

I love the new stomp rules, really just because of how much I hated the old ones. I'm wondering if we will see a lot more dual avenger/melta knights now. I've been away a year, was that possible previously? I remember the weapon options being a bit restricted, that you couldn't really dual wield the same weapons.

 Trickstick wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
...on the charge you get 5 attacks...

I can't see a +1 attack on the charge in the core rules anymore. Wasn't that removed, and now you just get to strike first?

I didn't even think about that but now that I do it makes sense.

I love the new stomp rules, really just because of how much I hated the old ones. I'm wondering if we will see a lot more dual avenger/melta knights now. I've been away a year, was that possible previously? I remember the weapon options being a bit restricted, that you couldn't really dual wield the same weapons.

Renegade knights could have any weapons in any combinations but regular knights were restricted.

First glance, I'm very happy, as both someone who runs a knight, as well as someone that hated playing against them.

Hurting them is WAY more doable now, which I appreciate. 24 wounds is high, but with D6 damage possible, it's not nearly as intimidating. I was really worried they were gonna have 2+, 5++ which would have been a little out of control.

Powerfist heavy units are gonna wreck them though. Nobz and Mega nobz are gunna rip them apart. They roll with a lot of multi-damage, high strength weaponry. I feel like terminators will have a similar effect.

The weapons options look great though. Those I'm pretty excited for, especially now that you have to choose which combat weapons to use, instead of it being a free for all.

If the loyalists are at all comparable, my wallet may be feeling lighter in the near future....

 DoomMouse wrote:
We haven't seen the data sheet for any true flyer yet. They said in one of the FAQs that there will be a -1 to hit for some slower flyers, and possibly hinted that there might be a -2 for faster ones (maybe razorwing or crimson hunters?) I imagine these will be included on the units datasheets

Edit: actually just seen the heldrake data sheet and this doesn't appear to be the case... Maybe there are some rules regarding fly that haven't been leaked yet? Or flyers are just easy to hit this edition

Helldrake having no minimum movement and no penalty to hit could be the standard for hovering flyers.

Shouldn't the twin icarus autocannon have changed to heavy 4? the imperial one is heavy 4.

lokust2501 wrote:
Shouldn't the twin icarus autocannon have changed to heavy 4? the imperial one is heavy 4.

They're heavy 4 because it's twin linked