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If I have the choice of one; do I get a regular Fireblade bluntsman or Darkstrider (Tau Sept)

The army is 1500pts, 2 HBC riptides, 1 GK, 2 Quad Fusion Coldstars, 3 firesights, 3 FW teams (possible 1 is 12-strong?), 10-14 drones.

Thoughts?

I would say ditch the ghostkeel and get yourself a second battalion above 1k Tau should be double battalion IMHO.
TAU are a CP intensive army, and firewarriors arn't a bad unit to have for a CP tax.

I've thought about it, it's +4CP or a ghostkeel - I like the ghostkeel

meleti wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Knights seem like a super easy matchup for a proper tau list. Minimal targets means markerlights are super efficient, our S5 spam wounds on a 5 (4 with t'au), CIB commanders average 5 damage each vs a knight, drones totally gimp the missile sniping, etc.

What I consider a proper T'au list doesn't really provide any sort of good target for knights, while having all the tools to take them out.

Custode bikes are much, much scarier to us, IMO

Agree on Focused Fire, Knights are basically what the stratagem was made for. Just watch out for the 2+ armor save relic (Armor of Sainted Ion), it puts a considerable dent in massed pulse fire.

On Tau providing good targets: eh, depends on the list. One of the popular tournament lists right now is 3 Hammerheads + Longstrike and that provides some great targets for Knights. I don't run Hammerheads, but it seems like potentially a rough matchup for anyone that does.

In my opinion, the best Tau lists will focus heavily on fire warriors. They're statistically amazing, and in the context of 8th, they're super strong.

If you mass them, I can see how they can do heavy lifting.

50, in rapid fire range, using a stratagem for +1 to-wound (with 5 markerlights) will cause a T6+ 3+ save unit 13 wounds (or 21 wounds to MEQ's, 43 GEQ's). That's pretty impressive for an infantry model I agree, for 7pts / model. Oh, add 50% to those numbers if you add in a Fireblade aura, more if you start using warlord traits / additional stratagems.

However losses due to injury (T3, 4+), Morale, reducing firepower, force density, foot print, multi-target drop-off etc means I'm not that interested. Plus I like mecha suits, like most blue-blooded wanna-be mecha pilots.

(Unbuffed, 12 firewarriors kill 1.34 MEQ's at 30", 21 guardsmen kill 1.17; both mediocre.)

I'll field the 3x5 or 2x5 + 1x12 (with Darkstrider) and enjoy their excellent efficiency for the shots they do put out / the ground they cover cheaply but that's it. At that level, they will be a great slot filler, objective capper and board control presence; but specifically will not do heavy lifting. Which is fine. That's what quad fusion commanders are for.

Granted, and my query relates to, Darkstrider + 12 firewarriors (with some/lots of buffs) can start to do some heavy lifting, meaningfully impact a target enemy unit.

Razerous wrote:
If I have the choice of one; do I get a regular Fireblade bluntsman or Darkstrider (Tau Sept)

The army is 1500pts, 2 HBC riptides, 1 GK, 2 Quad Fusion Coldstars, 3 firesights, 3 FW teams (possible 1 is 12-strong?), 10-14 drones.

Thoughts?

If you're choosing between your first Fireblade and Darkstrider, take the Fireblade. He adds more damage even to a 12-man team, and he also improves the other teams.

Razerous wrote:
If you mass them, I can see how they can do heavy lifting.

However losses due to injury (T3, 4+), Morale, reducing firepower, force density, foot print, multi-target drop-off etc means I'm not that interested. Plus I like mecha suits, like most blue-blooded wanna-be mecha pilots.

A tip on morale: take a Sa'cea detachment. My preferred one is:

Sa'cea Vanguard 120 +1CP
HQ1: Ethereal 45
Elite1: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite2: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite3: Firesight Marksman 25

But you can also take an auxiliary support (-1CP) for just the Ethereal, or a battalion for more CP. The Sa'cea Ethereal buffs your Fire Warriors to leadership 10, making your teams morale immune to any losses below 5 men. The Firesight Marksmen are probably the best markerlight sources in the army, as they're so reliable. And just as importantly, your Sa'cea characters give you access to the outstanding Sa'cea markerlight stratagem.

Exactly!

The Sa'cea markerlights are so reliable, plus the strategem is amazing because it allows you to chain into the regular one; so for a mere 2(?)CP, that's 1+1+1D3 tokens before anything pulls a trigger.

The Fireblade only adds more damage if the enemy target is within 15" of your infantry; whilst Darkstrider is 1x unit within 30".

So.. hmm...

We all agree that crisis suits are trash, right? I had an argument on Facebook (I know) over this, and they're overcosted trash, right?

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
We all agree that crisis suits are trash, right? I had an argument on Facebook (I know) over this, and they're overcosted trash, right?

Their only viable use is Farsight enclaves drops. Even that is still not particularly great.

Without infantry keyword it is too hard to get them cover, so they're not particularly durable.

Their damage output is worse than a lot of things in the codex.

They don't have JSJ like they used to to make them manueverable/durable.

So basically yeah, they're bad and outclassed by something else in every way.

meleti wrote:


A tip on morale: take a Sa'cea detachment. My preferred one is:

Sa'cea Vanguard 120 +1CP
HQ1: Ethereal 45
Elite1: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite2: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite3: Firesight Marksman 25

But you can also take an auxiliary support (-1CP) for just the Ethereal, or a battalion for more CP. The Sa'cea Ethereal buffs your Fire Warriors to leadership 10, making your teams morale immune to any losses below 5 men. The Firesight Marksmen are probably the best markerlight sources in the army, as they're so reliable. And just as importantly, your Sa'cea characters give you access to the outstanding Sa'cea markerlight stratagem.

Thank you, this is brilliant and makes bringing Sniper Drones more attractive as well.

meleti wrote:

A tip on morale: take a Sa'cea detachment. My preferred one is:

Sa'cea Vanguard 120 +1CP
HQ1: Ethereal 45
Elite1: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite2: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite3: Firesight Marksman 25
.

I do something similar. A Sa'cea Battalion of
Fireblade
Optional Fusionstar
Optional Etheral
3x5 Fire Warriors including Markerlight Shas'ui

If you're really feeling frisky, 3 units of a single broadside with HRR. That reroll makes them leaps and bounds more efficient than without.

This is in prettymuch every list I come up with. Good CP, reliable markerlights due to the reroll, Access to stratagems. Great value overall, with or without the additions.

I've been playing guard since 8th dropped mostly because they were collecting dust during the previous two editions. While I've enjoyed making guard great again I'm getting tired of all the winning. Ok, that last sentence was a lie Anyway I miss my Tau (and Necrons) so I'm shelving guard for a bit and trying to figure out Tau in the 8th environment. I've got pretty much every model in the Tau line except for the flyers and vespids. Many of them in spades (ran the crap out of the riptide wing and tried the piranha formation, etc). I know this isn't the army list forum but I would very much enjoy hearing about other people's 2k lists that they've had success with in 8th so I have some sort of frame of reference as to what I should be leaning towards. And really who doesn't enjoy talking about their own lists

 John Prins wrote:

meleti wrote:


A tip on morale: take a Sa'cea detachment. My preferred one is:

Sa'cea Vanguard 120 +1CP
HQ1: Ethereal 45
Elite1: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite2: Firesight Marksman 25
Elite3: Firesight Marksman 25

But you can also take an auxiliary support (-1CP) for just the Ethereal, or a battalion for more CP. The Sa'cea Ethereal buffs your Fire Warriors to leadership 10, making your teams morale immune to any losses below 5 men. The Firesight Marksmen are probably the best markerlight sources in the army, as they're so reliable. And just as importantly, your Sa'cea characters give you access to the outstanding Sa'cea markerlight stratagem.

Thank you, this is brilliant and makes bringing Sniper Drones more attractive as well.

I had and continue to have Sniper drones from the day 8th dropped.

Razerous wrote:
Exactly!
The Sa'cea markerlights are so reliable, plus the strategem is amazing because it allows you to chain into the regular one; so for a mere 2(?)CP, that's 1+1+1D3 tokens before anything pulls a trigger.

Unfortunately, the 'Uplinked Markerlight' strategem can't trigger off of the Sa'cea 'Orbital Marker Distribution Uplink'. 'Uplinked Markerlight' specifies: "Use this Stratagem after an enemy unit has been hit by a markerlight fired by a model from your army." and the Sa'cea strat markerlights aren't.

Hi all, new to Tau. Just got a quick question: For the Greater Good.

When an enemy unit declares a charge, a unit with this ability that is within 6" of one of the charging unit’s targets may fire Overwatch as if they were also targeted. A unit that does so cannot fire Overwatch again in this turn.


Does this refer to one unit and one unit only within 6"? Or does it mean all units within 6"?

Thanks in advance.

Any units within 6" of the charged unit.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

meleti wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Knights seem like a super easy matchup for a proper tau list. Minimal targets means markerlights are super efficient, our S5 spam wounds on a 5 (4 with t'au), CIB commanders average 5 damage each vs a knight, drones totally gimp the missile sniping, etc.

What I consider a proper T'au list doesn't really provide any sort of good target for knights, while having all the tools to take them out.

Custode bikes are much, much scarier to us, IMO

Agree on Focused Fire, Knights are basically what the stratagem was made for. Just watch out for the 2+ armor save relic (Armor of Sainted Ion), it puts a considerable dent in massed pulse fire.

On Tau providing good targets: eh, depends on the list. One of the popular tournament lists right now is 3 Hammerheads + Longstrike and that provides some great targets for Knights. I don't run Hammerheads, but it seems like potentially a rough matchup for anyone that does.

In my opinion, the best Tau lists will focus heavily on fire warriors. They're statistically amazing, and in the context of 8th, they're super strong.

I agree with this. I have 50 them and it really isn't enough. Something like 100-120 would be very strong.

 Chippen wrote:
Any units within 6" of the charged unit.

Much appreciated

Kinda hard to see the Tigershark as anything other than the most slept on unit in the game right now. It's hits double to triple as many HBC shots as the same amount of points worth of Riptides do, has insane mobility and makes easy use of Farsight rerolls and a single markerlight basically makes them twinlinked thanks to BS2+. Fly means they have built in Velocity Tracker too. And then there's the rest of its weaponry... And it's also a 14W T8 flyer on the survivability side with a very gentle wounds degrading thanks to ridiculous mobility with or without full wounds and the fact that 2+ to 3+ is not a crippling change

Have we gotten official word that the FW stuff gets the updated HBC? Last I knew that was the big hold up.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Have we gotten official word that the FW stuff gets the updated HBC? Last I knew that was the big hold up.

Yes GW stated that if there is 2 versions a piece of gear, the most recent version is used.

So with all the Imperial Knight updates and so on i think it's due time for ForgeWorld to set the points properly for the KX-139 Ta'unar. Its current points cost is ridiculous and it should get brought back down to about ~600 points in light of the IK rules.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Have we gotten official word that the FW stuff gets the updated HBC? Last I knew that was the big hold up.

Yes GW stated that if there is 2 versions a piece of gear, the most recent version is used.

They haven't definitively stated that that still takes place if the model comes from a different book though. Otherwise falchions would be 6d3 shots for twin volcano cannons instead of 2d6 as it would update inline with the shadowsword.

Unfortunately GW forget Forgeworld exsist for the most part, look at the imperial knights codex, adding anything FW totally broke that codex. Was only fixed in the FAQ as lot of players complained and GW went oh opps we didn't realise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

X078 wrote:
So with all the Imperial Knight updates and so on i think it's due time for ForgeWorld to set the points properly for the KX-139 Ta'unar. Its current points cost is ridiculous and it should get brought back down to about ~600 points in light of the IK rules.

A Ta'unar is worth way more than 600 points, It's not worth it current points I get, but your high if you think it's worth that few points.

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Have we gotten official word that the FW stuff gets the updated HBC? Last I knew that was the big hold up.

Yes GW stated that if there is 2 versions a piece of gear, the most recent version is used.

They haven't definitively stated that that still takes place if the model comes from a different book though. Otherwise falchions would be 6d3 shots for twin volcano cannons instead of 2d6 as it would update inline with the shadowsword.

Unfortunately GW forget Forgeworld exsist for the most part, look at the imperial knights codex, adding anything FW totally broke that codex. Was only fixed in the FAQ as lot of players complained and GW went oh opps we didn't realise.

Maybe I'm wrong, this exact topic came up on Chapter Tactics and they seemed to think it was definitive, so I dunno.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a right or wrong here, it a unknown grey area

What annoys me now is that they don't seem to have a plan to update IA inline with or in response to the codex's and the evolving rule set.

They could have included the still in production FW units in the codex's and made it clear what was and wasn't supposed to interact with strategums etc, but GW decieded to go with leaving index, codex and Imperial Armour as valid simultaneously.

Ice_can wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

X078 wrote:
So with all the Imperial Knight updates and so on i think it's due time for ForgeWorld to set the points properly for the KX-139 Ta'unar. Its current points cost is ridiculous and it should get brought back down to about ~600 points in light of the IK rules.

A Ta'unar is worth way more than 600 points, It's not worth it current points I get, but your high if you think it's worth that few points.

Looks to me like wanting to fight fire with fire.

Personally I've been looking at builds without big targets for volcano lance to shoot at. Hell of a lot infantry with Commanders should be alright. Maybe duo of Riptides with some drones.

My Longstrike list got destroyed against knights just yesterday even though I went first. Doesn't matter if you kill one and a half knights when the one that died comes back anyway fully operational.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Have we gotten official word that the FW stuff gets the updated HBC? Last I knew that was the big hold up.

Check the FAQ’s question about Eldar weapons.

Any thoughts on the XV9 hazard suits? They seem like they would be pretty great for anti infantry or even anti tank with the fusion guns and fairly survivable since you can take 4 drones if you want with one

meleti wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Have we gotten official word that the FW stuff gets the updated HBC? Last I knew that was the big hold up.

Check the FAQ’s question about Eldar weapons.

Which FAQ? I just went through the new big FAQ, the Eldar FAQ, the rulebook FAQ... nothing?