Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.

I don't have a link to hand, but I can give you my 2 cents on the different Septs:
T'au Sept: Probably the best one, especially with armies like Orks, Genestealer Cults, and even Chaos around. Overwatching on 5's is a big deal, especially for a unit of Missilesides with Counterfire Defense Systems. It takes the Tau specialty (overwatching for other friendly units) and makes it even better. The Sept-specific stratagem is also very handy for killing big stuff. Plus, most of the decent named characters (Shadowsun, Darkstrider, Longstrike) are T'au Sept.
Sa'cea Sept: This is a good one for Markerlights. A common strategy is to ally in an Ethereal and 3 Firesight Marksmen in a Sa'cea Vanguard detachment to give rerolling markerlights, plus the increased leadership on the Ethereal is handy for keeping other units from failing morale tests. Sa'cea also has a very nice stratagem to put a markerlight counter on every unit within 6 inches of a spot on the battlefield, making it easy to give your army reroll 1's to hit.
Bor'kan Sept: This is probably the only decent Sept besides T'au to build an army around. Increased range on heavy and rapid fire weapons is very handy. This is the best sept for the FW XV109 Y'vahra, as otherwise the range on its 3-damage flamer weapon is too short to be effective.
Vior'la Sept: The only reason I think I'd ever take this one is if I wanted to run a lot of Breacher Teams, and frankly those aren't terribly competitive right now. Their stratagem isn't bad (being able to shoot twice with a unit always helps), but the trait itself is kind of meh compared to some of the others.
Dal'yth Sept: The worst one of the bunch. Getting better saves if you don't move is not too bad, I guess, but generally in an objective-based game you want to be moving, which means you don't get anything from the Sept Tenet. The associated Warlord Trait is hot garbage too unless for some reason you really really want to run Kroot and Vespids.
Farsight Enclaves: Shooting better when close to the enemy is nice, but honestly Tau don't want to be close to the enemy as they are highly allergic to melee combat. The Fusion Blades are nice to have as a relic, though, but not worth giving up a better Sept Tenet.

Another thing to note: at least in my experience, despite having quite a selection of Warlord Traits to choose from (generic and Sept-specific), the only halfway decent one is Through Unity, Devastation. All of the others are way too situational IMO, and some are downright useless. We do have some good relics, at least, especially T'au Sept's Vectored Maneuvering Thruster and the Puretide Chip.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.

No, but it's an interesting question. Theres not much for discussion really since its one page of info but one could i suppose expand on it some in practical terms.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.

Another thing to note: at least in my experience, despite having quite a selection of Warlord Traits to choose from (generic and Sept-specific), the only halfway decent one is Through Unity, Devastation. All of the others are way too situational IMO, and some are downright useless. We do have some good relics, at least, especially T'au Sept's Vectored Maneuvering Thruster and the Puretide Chip.

A ghost walks among us + Vectored thrusters + XV84 seems decent

 Jancoran wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.

No, but it's an interesting question. Theres not much for discussion really since its one page of info but one could i suppose expand on it some in practical terms.

It's less about the amount of information and more about the number of units affected by the Sept tenets.

For example using Bor'kan Pathfinders in conjunction with Sa'cea Strike teams with imbeded MLs can net you a total of 20 ML hits. Your opponent is left with 3 options try to shoot through large numbers of high LD models, move in close enough to put serious firepower on the pathfinders, or ignore the MLs entirely.

So what are the best tenants for battle suits?

gendoikari87 wrote:
So what are the best tenants for battle suits?

There is no single answer, it depends on the battle suit in question.

Sa'cea is great for solo Broadsides with heavy rail rifles, that one re-roll per unit really pays off here.
A maximum unit of Broadsides with all the missiles is probably better off in T'au sept - and the classic build is to take those with Shadowsun to make a static firebase.

Bork'an is awesome on the Y'vahra for the extra range on the weapons.

Farsight Enclaves has a great stratagem for big powerful units of Crisis Suits.

It all depends what your battlesuit is and how you want to play it.

I am going to second T'au sept for any suits. The sept strat is just so awesome, particularly if you expect to face knights. My ghostkeels eat imperial knights for lunch.

Yeah i dropped riptides completely in my list now (did not want to try building one) opting for multiple commanders and a trio of Ghostkeels

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/773410.page

has anyone used ghostkeels and XV-25s against orks? how doe they fare?

gendoikari87 wrote:
has anyone used ghostkeels and XV-25s against orks? how doe they fare?

I did. He had a hybrid list though and not the super competitive version. I wiped him. But I dont know what it might be like currently. odd but I didnt face any orks the last couple events with my Tau.

My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

That's still an average of 34 lootas

34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor

so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

That's still an average of 34 lootas

34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor

so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.

Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.

So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

Sure if that's what they wanna shoot at.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

That's still an average of 34 lootas

34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor

so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.

Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.

So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.

Lol 25 lootas vs Ghostkeel

425 points vs 150 points

If they didn't kill him I would be worried.

Edit: And there is no more reason to assume Badmoon Clan then there is to assume Dal'yth Sept. Which would net you 1-2 more saves. Not to mention your using 3 CP.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

That's still an average of 34 lootas

34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor

so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.

Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.

So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.

Your math is off because you're assuming they hit on 5's, they don't, they hit on 6 Ghostkeel itself still has a native -1

Edit: unless you're within 6" but if you got orks within 6" you got bigger problems than lootas.

In any event the ork player i play doesn't have many lootas, he uses something far more dangerous. units of 5 death skulls tankbustas in battle wagons

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

That's still an average of 34 lootas

34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor

so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.

Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.

So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.

Your math is off because you're assuming they hit on 5's, they don't, they hit on 6 Ghostkeel itself still has a native -1

Edit: unless you're within 6" but if you got orks within 6" you got bigger problems than lootas.

In any event the ork player i play doesn't have many lootas, he uses something far more dangerous. units of 5 death skulls tankbustas in battle wagons

Dakka Dakka Dakka allows always hitting on 6. More Dakka! changes this to 5+ the math is right.

I'm still wondering why an Ork army (Which is melee focused) would not use melee on a short range unit which main down fall is it's terrible in melee.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting

Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.

That's still an average of 34 lootas

34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor

so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.

Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.

So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.

Your math is off because you're assuming they hit on 5's, they don't, they hit on 6 Ghostkeel itself still has a native -1

Edit: unless you're within 6" but if you got orks within 6" you got bigger problems than lootas.

In any event the ork player i play doesn't have many lootas, he uses something far more dangerous. units of 5 death skulls tankbustas in battle wagons

Dakka Dakka Dakka allows always hitting on 6. More Dakka! changes this to 5+ the math is right.

I'm still wondering why an Ork army (Which is melee focused) would not use melee on a short range unit which main down fall is it's terrible in melee.

more dakka only lets you trigger more attacks on a 5 right?

More Dakka is unmodified 5 and 6 so the - to hit doesn't work.

Getting ready to buy the rest of my 1250 point army.

Here's what It'll have so far.

HQ
1x XV84 (BC and CIB, Gost walks among us and vectored retro thrusters)

Troops
3x5 Firewarriors (markerlight and pulse rifles)

Elites
2x3 XV25
2x Ghostkeels (Ion raker, BC's, ATS and Target lock)

Fast attack
12x Tactical drones (8 shield 4 marker)

Heavy Support
3x Broadsides (2 missilesides with ATS and 1 railside with Drone controller)

Thoughts? I was going to do triple ghostkeels in a separate detatchment with a misslepod commander but figure missilesides are just too dang good

gendoikari87 wrote:
Getting ready to buy the rest of my 1250 point army.

Here's what It'll have so far.

HQ
1x XV84 (BC and CIB, Gost walks among us and vectored retro thrusters)

Troops
3x5 Firewarriors (markerlight and pulse rifles)

Elites
2x3 XV25
2x Ghostkeels (Ion raker, BC's, ATS and Target lock)

Fast attack
12x Tactical drones (8 shield 4 marker)

Heavy Support
3x Broadsides (2 missilesides with ATS and 1 railside with Drone controller)

Thoughts? I was going to do triple ghostkeels in a separate detatchment with a misslepod commander but figure missilesides are just too dang good

Well i have found that one Ghostkeel can be INCREDIBLY hearty and play above its points because of the Stratagems. After the first guy, I am much more in doubt. Riptides are the same way. The Codex doesn't reward you nearly as much for taking multiples of the bigger units.

Also: can't even begin to recommend the Shield Generator enough for the Ghostkeel. It's money in the bank. Skip the ATS on Ghostkeels.

Is the ats really not that useful? -1 seems weak for anti tank? Also theres a strategy with the second ghostkeel, since both can be deployed outside of your deployment, you put them on opposite side of the board as bait, let your opponent go after them and focus fire the broadsides and ghostkeel/XV25 on one flank and skirt with the other

The advantage of 2 Ghost Keels is you can keep them together and have -2 to hit so long as any of the 4 drones are alive (and in range).

gendoikari87 wrote:
Is the ats really not that useful? -1 seems weak for anti tank? Also theres a strategy with the second ghostkeel, since both can be deployed outside of your deployment, you put them on opposite side of the board as bait, let your opponent go after them and focus fire the broadsides and ghostkeel/XV25 on one flank and skirt with the other

the ATS is useful but WAY not as useful for the Ghostkeel as the Shield Generator will be. The things that will try to knock it out aren't playing around. They will have high AP. At LVO I deployed a Ghostkeel like right outside his deployment zone, my very first drop. That things lasted the whole game. I also planted the Fusion Cannon and Fusion Blasters on him. Good times. But the extra -1 ap is not better than having that ghostkeep frustrate your opponent, and you can use the 2CP repair stratagem at the start of BOTH your turn AND his turn. So... You can keep that guy upright for a long time. Just saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ordana wrote:
The advantage of 2 Ghost Keels is you can keep them together and have -2 to hit so long as any of the 4 drones are alive (and in range).

Killing 4 drones isnt difficult enough to want to do it though.

You can make killing 4 drones impossible if your opponent has no weapons that can fire without los. Granted that is Terran dependent

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Edit: And there is no more reason to assume Badmoon Clan then there is to assume Dal'yth Sept. Which would net you 1-2 more saves. Not to mention your using 3 CP.

Well are we talking about competive lists or not? Is Dal'yth common for competive tau lists? No? In competive list lootas ARE bad moons so 25 lootas will avereage 54 shots. Actually bit more as d3 shots with command reroll nets to average of 2.333 shots but it's swingy since it's 1 roll for all models for both shots so it's either 54 hits or 80 hits in aveage with long run evening toward 63 hits.

You don't consider snakebite lootas or goff lootas because nobody takes them. Of course if it's casual whatever list it's another thing but in competive list if it's lootas it's bad moon. That's how good bad moons are for them. And when you are thinking about going vs tau you pretty much assume you'll be facing 5+ overwatch from tons of units because that's what you see in tournaments. You don't go around expecting vior'la and say "tau overwatch is easy peasy"

So you will average about 36 wounds to ghostkeel. Drones of course will help if opponent doesn't have shootaboyz/dakkajets/mekguns etc to clear.

What are people’s thoughts on pathfinders? They seem like they’re holding giant “shoot me first” signs

gendoikari87 wrote:
What are people’s thoughts on pathfinders? They seem like they’re holding giant “shoot me first” signs

Giant shoot me but you need to get markerlights from somewhere. Just 3 Marksman is often not enough.

 Ordana wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
What are people’s thoughts on pathfinders? They seem like they’re holding giant “shoot me first” signs

Giant shoot me but you need to get markerlights from somewhere. Just 3 Marksman is often not enough.

Hence why 2 Cadre fireblades and/or darkstrider are common HQ choices.
However a Firewarrior shas ui with markerlight can spread the risk of your opponent being able to go and no markerlights for you.
Especially if charictor protection becomes as unreliable as some people believe, with GSC and Assasins.