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 carldooley wrote:
By my reading, Coldstars are Aircraft?

Eh how?

Since when did a coldstar have a minimum movement distance?

 carldooley wrote:
By my reading, Coldstars are Aircraft?

Nope, because they don't have a minimum move characteristic.

 carldooley wrote:
By my reading, Coldstars are Aircraft?

no as they have no minimum move distance

Cold Stars do not have a minimum move, so no.

Man that was a brutal pile in. Sorry man

Neeeeext!

Gun drones with 6 shots sounds ... interesting....Now how best to deliver them and keep them alive....

Hey guys, im not a tau player but i play against them often.

A friend of mine has been having a hard time beating my Drukhari and i was wondering how the matchup usually plays out for you guys and i you had any tips for him to beat me.

We've talked and tried to figure out what he was doing wrong and noticed that most of the time i end up with total map control (which i think is to be expected given my mobility).

His list seems to be the traditional Riptide + strike teams / Broadside + strike teams with some marksmen/commander sprinked in there while i run a mostly wych cult + coven list

I feel like his motivation is dropping and i'd like to help him improve his play.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Gun drones with 6 shots sounds ... interesting....Now how best to deliver them and keep them alive....

I’m experimenting with devilfish + 10 drones + fireblade .... also xv9 + dc+ drones because 4 shots at bs 4 str 5 at 10 points is still stupid strong

Quick question: if unit a charges tau unit B and succeeds and gets i to base contact with unit b, and then enemy unit c charges tau unit b can another tau unit within 6” of B fire overwatch at c

gendoikari87 wrote:
Quick question: if unit a charges tau unit B and succeeds and gets i to base contact with unit b, and then enemy unit c charges tau unit b can another tau unit within 6” of B fire overwatch at c

That's how I have played it. FTGG doesn't require overwatch to go off. simply being declared the target of a charge. I will often wait to fire certain units if I think I'm going to get charged multiple times in order to get shots off on everyone.

Just a couple of questions:

- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?

- What's the current consensus on XV9 Hazards? For a while they've been pretty overpriced but for around 200-ish points you can get a squad putting out 48 Heavy Bolter shots, with T5 5W each, sounds pretty decent to be honest.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Just a couple of questions:

- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?

what sept are you thinking about? I have been thinking about Dal'yth so as to benefit from the 'Fire and Fade' stratagem, which is actually the classic JSJ. I have been thinking 2 Missile Pods with ATS.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Just a couple of questions:

- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?

- What's the current consensus on XV9 Hazards? For a while they've been pretty overpriced but for around 200-ish points you can get a squad putting out 48 Heavy Bolter shots, with T5 5W each, sounds pretty decent to be honest.

Triple CIB is really the only all around option. Missiles you're paying a huge premium for the range and you might as well go HYMP Broadside with those points. Plasma is a MEQ/TEQ killer but bad against most other infantry and vehicles (low shots, low damage). Fusion is great for killing big stuff but you won't get too many shots and have to be close. CIB have lots of shots, high S and can get D3 damage if you overcharge, they do it all at a decent range.

I have a squad with dual plasma and a missile pod on each suit. It is a nice all-round load. I have not run them enough times to really get a solid feel for how good it really is, but it fit nicely in the hole left after the chapter approved point drops chopped so much off of my armies point costs.

Having run the numbers, plasma is cheap enough to be a good all-rounder gun; if you run triple plasma they will average 5 dead marines vs. the 6.66 for twenty fire warriors with a fireblade. The suits cost 135 points vs. the 182 for the infantry, so they squeak out slightly ahead on efficiency. Against anything with a good save and not too good of an invuln they will do well. Against guard type dudes with bad saves, the firewarriors do come out quite ahead, at 13.3 vs 7.5 for the suits. On the other hand, the suits do much, much better if you have 2+ saves to worry about, or T5 3+ units (e.g. plauge marines) and most importantly the suits can drop in anywhere you want. That is the big reason I include my squad, is to be able to get board presence, grab back objectives, etc.

I ended up giving mine missile pods instead of pure plasma. For just the 3 it is a minor adjustment, mostly a choice between that or two extra gun drones (which, to be fair, are quite nice) and I decided that the missile pod on the shoulder just looks so, so much better than a third plasma rifle there. Also the extra range to allow them to impact stuff after they clear out their drop zone seems really nice; my army has too many short range dudes as it is.

Yaktan wrote:
I have a squad with dual plasma and a missile pod on each suit. It is a nice all-round load. I have not run them enough times to really get a solid feel for how good it really is, but it fit nicely in the hole left after the chapter approved point drops chopped so much off of my armies point costs.

Having run the numbers, plasma is cheap enough to be a good all-rounder gun; if you run triple plasma they will average 5 dead marines vs. the 6.66 for twenty fire warriors with a fireblade. The suits cost 135 points vs. the 182 for the infantry, so they squeak out slightly ahead on efficiency. Against anything with a good save and not too good of an invuln they will do well. Against guard type dudes with bad saves, the firewarriors do come out quite ahead, at 13.3 vs 7.5 for the suits. On the other hand, the suits do much, much better if you have 2+ saves to worry about, or T5 3+ units (e.g. plauge marines) and most importantly the suits can drop in anywhere you want. That is the big reason I include my squad, is to be able to get board presence, grab back objectives, etc.

I ended up giving mine missile pods instead of pure plasma. For just the 3 it is a minor adjustment, mostly a choice between that or two extra gun drones (which, to be fair, are quite nice) and I decided that the missile pod on the shoulder just looks so, so much better than a third plasma rifle there. Also the extra range to allow them to impact stuff after they clear out their drop zone seems really nice; my army has too many short range dudes as it is.

Its the invul save spam that is the issue for plasma. Thats why Fiure Warriors are still kinda boss's

Yeah, handling invuln saves is where something like the Cyclic Ion blaster shines. Against infantry they are about the same as plasma (a hair worse vs. marines, a little better vs. guard) for nearly twice the cost; however they really do work when you come to multi-wound targets. And they suffer little fall-off vs. things like knights that rely on invuln saves, since the blasters do not rely on using AP to do their damage, they just spam out high strength multi-damage shots. A squad of 4 suits with triple blasters can average a dead castellan with markerlight and strat support (specifically the farsight strat and C and C node--which can be provided by Farsight dropping in with them.)

 Valkyrie wrote:
Just a couple of questions:

- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?

- What's the current consensus on XV9 Hazards? For a while they've been pretty overpriced but for around 200-ish points you can get a squad putting out 48 Heavy Bolter shots, with T5 5W each, sounds pretty decent to be honest.

You're really going to want to magnetize them. The fluidity this allows you in changing your strategy cannot be overstated, and in the long run it's much, much less work than having to use a detail knife to cut off the parts every time you want to change your loadout, not to mention wear and tear on the stuff getting cut. All you need are some rare earth magnets, a drill, and some superglue. I magnetized 6 Crisis suits and and three full loadouts for each suit in the space of a Saturday afternoon, and it was much better than blu-tack.

I am not a fan of Crisis Suits. They are less expensive now, which is certainly good, but I have thought many times of using them and each time come to the same conclusion: too easy to remove for the points spent and spending even more points on Drones ot keep them upright adds to the problem.

However in a recent list I have been using i did a bit of mathing on how to eliminate a Castellan and while my list is quite deadly against basically everything I can think of, it doesn't kill a Castellan fast enough because of a variety of reasons. It can nerf one fairly quickly but it can't get the job done before it can do severe damage to me and its range allows it at least the CHOICE to stay out of range of my heavier hitters, especially when it goes second.

Enter the 6 man Crisis team. Armed with 3 Cyclic Ion per suit, it hits 44 times with Markerlight support and thus does about 11D3 damage to a 4+ save Knight. About 22 wounds, and in round one it would have help from Seeker Missiles to chip 6 more off. It also has volume of fire and High str. So the unit can hurt anything, not just Knights. It doesn't therefore end up having any particularly specialize role in the army. It gets the jump on the stinking Castllan every time as long as you clear the blockers.

Their range sucks and that's a thing for sure. Having said that, the points expenditure (about 500 points) IS less than the two Railsides and Riptide they replace. They can be protected in the same way as the Riptide. More wounds, less Toughness, no invul. More volume of fire, stronger volume of fire.

The added bonus is they have the greater mobility compared to their Broadside buddies.

I don't know. I kinda like the idea. I've avoided Crisis Teams for a good long time but they can also take the 2+ save guys in the units (Battlescribe errors if you take two for some reason, but the rules say you can).

Thoughts? Anyone fielded this particular config 6 strong?

 Jancoran wrote:
I am not a fan of Crisis Suits. They are less expensive now, which is certainly good, but I have thought many times of using them and each time come to the same conclusion: too easy to remove for the points spent and spending even more points on Drones ot keep them upright adds to the problem.

However in a recent list I have been using i did a bit of mathing on how to eliminate a Castellan and while my list is quite deadly against basically everything I can think of, it doesn't kill a Castellan fast enough because of a variety of reasons. It can nerf one fairly quickly but it can't get the job done before it can do severe damage to me and its range allows it at least the CHOICE to stay out of range of my heavier hitters, especially when it goes second.

Enter the 6 man Crisis team. Armed with 3 Cyclic Ion per suit, it hits 44 times with Markerlight support and thus does about 11D3 damage to a 4+ save Knight. About 22 wounds, and in round one it would have help from Seeker Missiles to chip 6 more off. It also has volume of fire and High str. So the unit can hurt anything, not just Knights. It doesn't therefore end up having any particularly specialize role in the army. It gets the jump on the stinking Castllan every time as long as you clear the blockers.

Their range sucks and that's a thing for sure. Having said that, the points expenditure (about 500 points) IS less than the two Railsides and Riptide they replace. They can be protected in the same way as the Riptide. More wounds, less Toughness, no invul. More volume of fire, stronger volume of fire.

The added bonus is they have the greater mobility compared to their Broadside buddies.

I don't know. I kinda like the idea. I've avoided Crisis Teams for a good long time but they can also take the 2+ save guys in the units (Battlescribe errors if you take two for some reason, but the rules say you can).

Thoughts? Anyone fielded this particular config 6 strong?

Do we have any number crunchers here? Broadsides are probably the gold standard, should compare how much that crisis suit team does to a knight, for the same point cost, and how much return fire durability they lose or gain with lower toughness but more wounds etc.

How do psychic powers interact with psychic powers

gendoikari87 wrote:
How do psychic powers interact with psychic powers

with tau? they don't.

Postulent wrote:


Do we have any number crunchers here? Broadsides are probably the gold standard, should compare how much that crisis suit team does to a knight, for the same point cost, and how much return fire durability they lose or gain with lower toughness but more wounds etc.

A full squad of Dakka broadsides, with missiles, smart missiles, and ATS will cost 363 points. With max buffing (Marker lights, Kayo'un, C and C node, Focus Fire) they will do:

Missile Pods: 24 x 8/9 x 3/4 x 1/2 x 2 = 16 damage average to a 4++ knight plus half that for the smart missiles, so 24 damage total.

A Squad of 4 triple Ion crisis suits will cost 324 points. There are two paths to full buffs, either tau for focused fire, or farsight for drop zone clear. Let us look at both.

Tau: 36 x 7/9 x 8/9 x 1/2 x 2 = 24.9 damage
Farsight: 36 x 35/36 x 3/4 x 1/2 x 2 = 26.25 damage

Now, the broadsides have a range advantage and if there is somewhere to go, they can sacrifice a little firepower to get Mont'ka'ed into position first turn (or later if you are fine sacrificing 3 damage to wait)

The crisis suits on the other hand have shorter range, but are innately mobile, and can drop in where you want.

On the other hand, this means the broadsides work from turn one, while the crisis suits not so much, though you can deploy them on the board, but 26'' is a bit limiting for a threat range.

Now for defense, the biggest thing is to protect them with drones. Once the drones are dead, we can compare their durability. Let us use bolters, disintigrator cannons, battlecannons, and Lascannons

Bolters, to kill
Broadsides: 18 wounds x 6 for 2+ save x 3 for T6 vs S4 = 324 bolter hits
Crisis suits: 12 wounds x 3 for 3+ save x 3 for T5 vs S4 = 108 bolter hits

Notice the broadsides have more wounds and a better save, making them 3x more durable vs. small arms. To compare, to kill 350 points of fire warriors would take
Firewarriors: 50 wounds x 2 for 4+ save x 1.5 for T3 vs S4 = 150 bolter hits

So the crisis suits are a little easier to take down than 50 firewarriors, but either way that is a lot of bolter fire.

Now for more realistic weapons.

Dissy:
Broadsides: 3 unsaved wounds to kill x 3 models x 1.5 for 5+ save x 3 for T6 = 40.5 dissy hits to kill or a couple turns of dedicated ravager fire
Crisis: 2 wounds to kill x 4 models x 6/5 for 6+ x 2 for T5 = 19.2 dissy hits to kill, so half the durabilty. Ouch!

Battlecannon:
Broadsides: 3ish wounds to kill x 3 models x 2 for 4+ save x 1.5 for S8 vs T6 = 27 battlecannon hits.
Crisis: 2ish, wounds to kill x 4 models x 1.5 for 5+ save x 1.5 for T5 = 18 battlecannon hits. Closer but still only 2/3 the durability, and I was fudging the number of unsaved wounds needed (I do not feel like figuring out how to back out the random damage effect precisely)

Lascannon:
Broadsides: 2ish wounds to kill x 3 models x 1.5 for 5+ save x 1.5 for T6 = 13.5 lascannon hits
Crisis: 1.5 ish wounds to kill x 4 models x 6/5 for 6+ save x 1.5 for T5 = 10.8 lascannon hits

So, the crisis suits get sad when being shot at; this is mitigated by starting off the board. Either way, drones are love, drones are life.

Postulent wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I am not a fan of Crisis Suits. They are less expensive now, which is certainly good, but I have thought many times of using them and each time come to the same conclusion: too easy to remove for the points spent and spending even more points on Drones ot keep them upright adds to the problem.

However in a recent list I have been using i did a bit of mathing on how to eliminate a Castellan and while my list is quite deadly against basically everything I can think of, it doesn't kill a Castellan fast enough because of a variety of reasons. It can nerf one fairly quickly but it can't get the job done before it can do severe damage to me and its range allows it at least the CHOICE to stay out of range of my heavier hitters, especially when it goes second.

Enter the 6 man Crisis team. Armed with 3 Cyclic Ion per suit, it hits 44 times with Markerlight support and thus does about 11D3 damage to a 4+ save Knight. About 22 wounds, and in round one it would have help from Seeker Missiles to chip 6 more off. It also has volume of fire and High str. So the unit can hurt anything, not just Knights. It doesn't therefore end up having any particularly specialize role in the army. It gets the jump on the stinking Castllan every time as long as you clear the blockers.

Their range sucks and that's a thing for sure. Having said that, the points expenditure (about 500 points) IS less than the two Railsides and Riptide they replace. They can be protected in the same way as the Riptide. More wounds, less Toughness, no invul. More volume of fire, stronger volume of fire.

The added bonus is they have the greater mobility compared to their Broadside buddies.

I don't know. I kinda like the idea. I've avoided Crisis Teams for a good long time but they can also take the 2+ save guys in the units (Battlescribe errors if you take two for some reason, but the rules say you can).

Thoughts? Anyone fielded this particular config 6 strong?

Do we have any number crunchers here? Broadsides are probably the gold standard, should compare how much that crisis suit team does to a knight, for the same point cost, and how much return fire durability they lose or gain with lower toughness but more wounds etc.

The numbers are good but its the return fire I am worried about.

I did the numbers with Markerlights.

I forecast 10.5 D3 damage to a 4+ Invul Knight in a volley. Cost is 496 for the unit to do it so...

Six Broadsides (a lot more points) firing The High Yield pods do about 6.22 d3 wounds against a 4+ invul Knight. Add in 4.15 Smart Missile wounds. So all in all, not as good at killing Castellans. The STR difference in the weapons plays big and so does ROF.

Now Broadsides will be far more likely to benefit from Master of War. Obviously all numbers change when it goes off but at its essence, this is baseline with 5 Markerlights, No Master of War going off.

I’m trying out some battle suits. I got a trio with missiles and velocity tracker. One unit with 8 plasma rifles and drone controller (and 10 drones) and a third of bodyguards with all burst cannons who go with the quad fusion commander for taking out transports and their occupants

A random (or Randumb) rumination: Does the ATS reduce the AP of generic CCWs (as per the 'Choose Melee Weapon' point of the Fight Phase in the BRB)?

The one caution I would add to suit bombs especially farsight onea is they can become very underwhelming should a vect or plan counter be thrown out at the wrong moment.

Wait DOES the ats work in melee?

Ayup.

Interesting.... not super useful but still