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footfoe wrote: Really not worried about the commander limit. paying 2 cp for a patrol to bring two FSE commanders is a no brainer.
6 is honestly overkill. because at that point it isn't the CP that's the problem it's the points. Everything is going to be more expensive, you won't have much of a screen left to actually protect your commanders.
The way the new rules work Commanders are pretty dead as it is.
What are people's thoughts on secondary missions that are good contenders and Hard passes?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/02 17:01:42
The way the new rules work Commanders are pretty dead as it is.
What are people's thoughts on secondary missions that are good contenders and Hard passes?
Commanders wont be dead, largely because there's nothing else that can fill the same niche. But they're definitely down a peg from 8th.
As to secondaries, Bring it Down is going to be good against Vee heavy armies (which are likely to be more common in 9th), While We Stand We Fight will score for keeping the Riptides standing (which is likely going to be a make/break point for the game anyway). Thin Their Ranks looks to be good against large scale MSU or horde lists.
I'd probably avoid Attrition due to the way separating drone units interact with it, as well as any of the Action based ones. The things that can conceivably survive an entire round of focus fire are the models Tau want to be shooting with every possible gun.
Well, none of the secondaries even care about dealing wounds, so that's a moot point.
They do care about kills, and if the same kill applies to multiple secondaries, it sure does work.
Wont be common though, except against psyker armies (who are totally hosed by "abhor the witch" secondary being broken AF)
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
BoomWolf wrote: Well, none of the secondaries even care about dealing wounds, so that's a moot point.
They do care about kills, and if the same kill applies to multiple secondaries, it sure does work.
Wont be common though, except against psyker armies (who are totally hosed by "abhor the witch" secondary being broken AF)
Also allows stacking bring it down with thin their ranks if they have a bunch of 10+ Wound models as they count as 10 wounds for thin their ranks. So maxing out Bring it down gets you 1/3 of the kill tally needed to max out Thin their ranks.
footfoe wrote: Really not worried about the commander limit. paying 2 cp for a patrol to bring two FSE commanders is a no brainer.
6 is honestly overkill. because at that point it isn't the CP that's the problem it's the points. Everything is going to be more expensive, you won't have much of a screen left to actually protect your commanders.
The way the new rules work Commanders are pretty dead as it is.
What are people's thoughts on secondary missions that are good contenders and Hard passes?
huh? commanders are still great. they just need to stick closer to your unkillable suits.
speaking of unkillable. while we stand we fight is a great secondary for tau. If you keep your triptides alive all game you get 15 pts. Not too hard for Tau.
40K Armies: Ultramarines, Tau, Ynnari, Orks, and Thousand Sons.
footfoe wrote: Really not worried about the commander limit. paying 2 cp for a patrol to bring two FSE commanders is a no brainer.
6 is honestly overkill. because at that point it isn't the CP that's the problem it's the points. Everything is going to be more expensive, you won't have much of a screen left to actually protect your commanders.
The way the new rules work Commanders are pretty dead as it is.
What are people's thoughts on secondary missions that are good contenders and Hard passes?
huh? commanders are still great. they just need to stick closer to your unkillable suits.
speaking of unkillable. while we stand we fight is a great secondary for tau. If you keep your triptides alive all game you get 15 pts. Not too hard for Tau.
I meant your not going to be goibg all in on 4+ of them as some people theorised in 8th post PA, I'll still be taking 2 unless they get nasty points jumps.
So far I'm actually thinking 9th might be a time to go back to the old school monster mash lists of 7th I thibk it was of tritide and Yvahraa spam as they should hopefully see some big points drops when the new FW books come out in August, as they are still paying index points for the base riptide chassis.
Also really plays well into playing FSE rules wise if not lore wise, but crisis suits outaide of missle pods look like a big risk unit that your might not want to take in sizes above 5.
I meant your not going to be goibg all in on 4+ of them as some people theorised in 8th post PA, I'll still be taking 2 unless they get nasty points jumps.
So far I'm actually thinking 9th might be a time to go back to the old school monster mash lists of 7th I thibk it was of tritide and Yvahraa spam as they should hopefully see some big points drops when the new FW books come out in August, as they are still paying index points for the base riptide chassis.
Also really plays well into playing FSE rules wise if not lore wise, but crisis suits outaide of missle pods look like a big risk unit that your might not want to take in sizes above 5.
Keep in mind that Riptides and Ghostkeels (they have the Monster keyword) act as bodyguards for commanders. Fully agree on the Enclave style. My initial Crusade list has a pair of Vet cadres, each with an accompanying Commander. They'll eventually grow up to 5-suits apiece.
I meant your not going to be goibg all in on 4+ of them as some people theorised in 8th post PA, I'll still be taking 2 unless they get nasty points jumps.
So far I'm actually thinking 9th might be a time to go back to the old school monster mash lists of 7th I thibk it was of tritide and Yvahraa spam as they should hopefully see some big points drops when the new FW books come out in August, as they are still paying index points for the base riptide chassis.
Also really plays well into playing FSE rules wise if not lore wise, but crisis suits outaide of missle pods look like a big risk unit that your might not want to take in sizes above 5.
Keep in mind that Riptides and Ghostkeels (they have the Monster keyword) act as bodyguards for commanders. Fully agree on the Enclave style. My initial Crusade list has a pair of Vet cadres, each with an accompanying Commander. They'll eventually grow up to 5-suits apiece.
Never know we could take 2 veteran squads. Just looked it up and you are right. So for 2CP we can take 2 squads of 3 for the same price as one large squad.
Never know we could take 2 veteran squads. Just looked it up and you are right. So for 2CP we can take 2 squads of 3 for the same price as one large squad.
In matched play you cannot (it's a "Once per game" strat). In Crusade, things like Vet Cadre are treated as RP purchases, and are not limited to a single squad. You could conceivably do an entire army of nothing but Veteran XV8 teams in the latter mode.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/06 13:57:08
Yeah I do think the amount of cross over between crusade and Matched play is going to be way less than GW implied.
Not saying that crusdae doesnt look like it could be great for a nice club grow league, but I think the way both systems are played is going to be very different from each other.
Ice_can wrote: Yeah I do think the amount of cross over between crusade and Matched play is going to be way less than GW implied.
Not saying that crusdae doesnt look like it could be great for a nice club grow league, but I think the way both systems are played is going to be very different from each other.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. Bigger tent with more supported ways to play does far more for the long term health of the game than tournament or bust.
I think in all cases, 2000pt games will be 3 patrol detachments. Lets you have everything.
The issue is the charictor targeting rules are way less useful in protecting commanders in 9th than they were in 8th.
The rest of the balance equation will depend upon the new 9th edition points balance
Eh, while the ability of a Commander to Manta Stike and have protection is limited, you can still cover them quite readily with drone squads and vehicles ect. Even without being able to zoom all over they're still very good units.
Also: It may be that the "Supreme Commander" keyword is applied to Shadowsun so she'd be available as a freebie in a Supreme Command Detachment - She has a rule named as such already, after all. Maybe even all Commanders get it.
There's certainly a reason the SupCom detachment is HQs and lords of war. Plus it maybe makes that video/batrep/list from Table Top Titans make sense - they weren't wrong, just ahead of what's publicly available.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/06 22:35:10
Shadowsun and Farsight are the obvious choices for Tau, here's hoping they cover it in the day 1 FAQ, though Farsight really could do with an updated plastic model thats more fittingly sized.
rbstr wrote: Eh, while the ability of a Commander to Manta Stike and have protection is limited, you can still cover them quite readily with drone squads and vehicles ect. Even without being able to zoom all over they're still very good units.
Also: It may be that the "Supreme Commander" keyword is applied to Shadowsun so she'd be available as a freebie in a Supreme Command Detachment - She has a rule named as such already, after all. Maybe even all Commanders get it.
There's certainly a reason the SupCom detachment is HQs and lords of war. Plus it maybe makes that video/batrep/list from Table Top Titans make sense - they weren't wrong, just ahead of what's publicly available.
I'll point out that her ability to fit in all Tau detachments regardless of Sept is literally called "Supreme Commander".
killerpenguin wrote: Damn, we can’t fall back and shoot with fly units anymore. That’s a mega nerf for us.
Monsters & vehicals can still shoot in combat we still have overwatch unlike most armies so far. Also it depends what they do with points etc, I'm hoping to finally have a YVhara that isnt paying index riptide points.
I think crisis suits took a bigger hit than Riptide and Ghostkeels.
I'm also interested to see what hassard suits look like post CA2020 as I think they could be important with their -2 to charge ranges with the changes to comand reroll.
killerpenguin wrote: Damn, we can’t fall back and shoot with fly units anymore. That’s a mega nerf for us.
Monsters & vehicals can still shoot in combat we still have overwatch unlike most armies so far. Also it depends what they do with points etc, I'm hoping to finally have a YVhara that isnt paying index riptide points.
I think crisis suits took a bigger hit than Riptide and Ghostkeels.
I'm also interested to see what hassard suits look like post CA2020 as I think they could be important with their -2 to charge ranges with the changes to comand reroll.
Well, here's hoping and everything, but if FLY doesn't work as it did in 8th, maybe JET PACK will do what it did before 8th.
'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
killerpenguin wrote: Damn, we can’t fall back and shoot with fly units anymore. That’s a mega nerf for us.
Monsters & vehicals can still shoot in combat we still have overwatch unlike most armies so far. Also it depends what they do with points etc, I'm hoping to finally have a YVhara that isnt paying index riptide points.
I think crisis suits took a bigger hit than Riptide and Ghostkeels.
I'm also interested to see what hassard suits look like post CA2020 as I think they could be important with their -2 to charge ranges with the changes to comand reroll.
Broadsides and XV8s got fethed (likewise all Commander variants). Also Battlesuit is, barring an entry in an FAQ, still a terrible keyword. Nobody except stealth suits gets to make use of cover beyond LoS blocking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/07 14:51:53
killerpenguin wrote: Damn, we can’t fall back and shoot with fly units anymore. That’s a mega nerf for us.
Monsters & vehicals can still shoot in combat we still have overwatch unlike most armies so far. Also it depends what they do with points etc, I'm hoping to finally have a YVhara that isnt paying index riptide points.
I think crisis suits took a bigger hit than Riptide and Ghostkeels.
I'm also interested to see what hassard suits look like post CA2020 as I think they could be important with their -2 to charge ranges with the changes to comand reroll.
Well, here's hoping and everything, but if FLY doesn't work as it did in 8th, maybe JET PACK will do what it did before 8th.
I like the optimism but given a number of playtesters immediate responce that "that would be the most broken thing to ever add to the game" (I'm sorry WTAF Yannari had this already FFS) I dont see it every coming back to many guardplayers are still salty.
Broadsides and XV8s got fethed (likewise all Commander variants). Also Battlesuit is, barring an entry in an FAQ, still a terrible keyword. Nobody except stealth suits gets to make use of cover beyond LoS blocking.
Yeah that is why at the moment I am planning lists for 9th containing no Crisis or Broadside suits.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/07 16:26:56
It is lame that our mid-sized suits don't get in on any of the infantry or vehicle/monster fun. And I hope the new codex comes fairly soon and does something about it.
But as it seems currently Broadsides aren't any different than before with regard getting tagged in combat. They wouldn't be that good at shooting into combat anyway. The heavy weapon change buffed them by really increasing mobility, if anything, and cover rules probably work in their favor with regard to LOS stuff.
Crisis still can pack a huge amount of firepower and pretty wacky survivability between the new 5-marker stratagem, new farsight stuff, ignore Ap-2 prototype and drones. You have to think more about screens with them now, though. Conveniently you can drop a pile of shield drones down in front of them with the Manta Strike if you want.
Honestly, while the fly change isn't great it's not the end of the world. I think the new missions and cover rules over all do more to help our shooting than hurt and I think we can build pretty decent screens in via just plain old drone units, Breachers with guardian drones, maybe even devilfish (actually a decent number of 4+ shots into combat, a strategem to hit on 5+ overwatch when not tau sept), or tons of kroots.
The heavy weapon change does wonders for mobility of the bigger units and means we open a slot for like Counterfire Defense Systems on Riptides. That's some very serious charge denial.
If melee comes back into vogue the CDS and Tau sept are probably well positioned to deal with it.
I'm far more worried about being out-shot than melee troubles.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/07 19:36:34
Would the cover removal from marker lights also get rid of the -1 to hit some terrain provides now?
This would actually be a huge buff for tau in comparison to other armies.
Aeri wrote: Would the cover removal from marker lights also get rid of the -1 to hit some terrain provides now?
This would actually be a huge buff for tau in comparison to other armies.
Roumer is ignore cover is now ignore light cover (the save bonus) the -1 isnt effected by any of the ignoring cover.
Aeri wrote: Would the cover removal from marker lights also get rid of the -1 to hit some terrain provides now?
This would actually be a huge buff for tau in comparison to other armies.
Roumer is ignore cover is now ignore light cover (the save bonus) the -1 isnt effected by any of the ignoring cover.
Apparently this is covered in the weird rule interactions section at the end of the book and yeah, it basically means it ignores light cover now.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
