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Here is hoping then that the Tau day one errata will include a new markerlight table.
It absolutely needs to given the changes to Heavy weapon mobility, but I dont expect anything that fundamentally alters the Tau playstyle.
I genuinely expect that the way Gw has done things before, for the Marker lights to have all the same benifits in it untill the new codex as they will come up with some BS how it's still good for pathfinders.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/09 16:41:52
I genuinely expect that the way Gw has done things before, for the Marker lights to have all the same benifits in it untill the new codex as they will come up with some BS how it's still good for pathfinders.
That's my expectation for all codices to be honest.
I genuinely expect that the way Gw has done things before, for the Marker lights to have all the same benifits in it untill the new codex as they will come up with some BS how it's still good for pathfinders.
That's my expectation for all codices to be honest.
Though they did admit that they were redesigning the support systems, but they didn't say if that would be in the FAQ or codex the good old bait and switch.
I smooshed this list together from what I've got on hand.
Battalion+Patrol
First a Sept-something battalion with:
3xcrisiswith 2xCIB ATS plus one dude with 2x AFP with the Active Countermeasures - This should be fairly hard to shift with the drones there too. Get to slap down the 5-marker strat and really blast something.
CIB enforcer - Stabilizers for those rerolls!
CIBs are just good, I expect transports and primaris and other tough infantry and they're the right gun for that job.
Devilfish w/ 10 breachers+drones - a pretty decent objective holder, they need to chew though a fish, drones, and 10 5++ bodies (though I kinda doubt the guardian drone will be easy to hide)
couple 5-man FW squads - for doing random stuff.
Pair of HRR Broadsides since they're very cool and I just want them.
I think every unit brings its drone allotment.
Could be whatever Sept. HRRs can be sweet in Sa'cea and that would give the CIBs some extra oomph. Could always fall back on Tau if charges are a problem.
Or maybe Hybridized Weaponry, a bit more range on nearly every good gun seems like it could be effective. Not sure on the other one with a custom Sept. I kinda like Soldiers in Arms to let me spread out a bit more and keep FtGG coverage.
Then a Farsight Patrol:
2x Fusion Coldstars - wrecking a couple somethings or others with these guys.
Another Fish w/ 10 Breachers.
Ghostkeel with CIR - he could go in the other detachment too but I kinda think I want to use him a bit closer-up and farsight might work there.
Why not put the Crisis in the Farsight Patrol? I want to keep them back as mobile fire-support and that'll work better in a different sept.
Drones are in there as placeholders, probably gonna put one slightly larger squad in each detachment.
I could make it dual patrol and put both big Breacherfish in the Farsight Detachment. maybe scrap the ghostkeel for a third breacherfish.
Comes in at 1732 so I'm thinking I'll probably have a bit of room in it when points drop. Likely more drones.
An alternative list here is Missile Pod crisis and commander with Hardened Warheads on the main force.
Another adjustment would be a Sunshark in the Farsight detachment traded basically 1:1 with the Ghostkeel - could use that firestorm strat. and do some fun reserves stuff
Spoiler:
Sept Choice . Custom Sept: Hybridised Weaponry, Soldiers in Arms
Really wish Tau had a falcon-like half-squad transport that could bring some higher-strength firepower with it. 7 dudes (5+drones), and like your pick of 2xCrisis weapon (Railrifles?!) on top of the gundrones/SMS option. Maybe, like the Devilfish has that weird Recon Drone thing, it could hold a couple DS8's?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 02:05:55
Hard disagree on the XV8s. If you're running them with CIBs, they should be Enclaves. Vet Cadre plus additional strats turn them into a unit of multiple Commanders. The only things of value in the Custom Sept list that benefits danger close Crisis are Hybridized Weaponry or Turbo Jets, neither of which come close to the boost that they get from the Enclaves. Also consider running them as Bodyguards. The Sworn Protecters stratagem makes them surprisingly deadly in melee, and its a minor point increase.
Squad up the Broadsides, and if you're running them as Railsides give them the Magna rifle.
If you're dead set on Devilfish, strongly consider a Fireblade or two and consolidate them into a single Sept. Their aura works on the attached Pulse Carbines that the APCs are carrying.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 02:15:36
Note: this would be a 9th list, specifically looking at the Eternal War missions, hence the Fish. Holding objectives is going to be the hard part for Tau I think, and they're a strategy to do a bit better.
Anyway, here me out on the Crisis:
Lets say I do hybridized weapons and Soldiers in Arms. You pull a sneaky FtGG on something pretty far away with the 22" CIBs which I think is kinda funny and maybe useful in 9e missions. In my mind these guys are on board turn 1, hanging behind the fishes being very bad targets to shoot at thanks to one tanky boi. The role I've got them in doesn't see them benefiting from Farsight Tenets much at all between range and Coordinated Engagment. So it shakes out in this usage to spending 2CP to get BS2+ or going with BS3+ and get some range benefits (or 5s overwatch, or reroll any one hit roll). In the end I sort of expect Missile Pods and Hardened Warheads to do this better (but then I need to do HYMP broadsides ect.)
But in general, yah, I get it. I've probably upgrade to Bodyguards if the points end up allowing it.
Squading is somewhat placeholdery. Broadsides would be single in Sa'cea, together otherwise. I like the magna, but I only get 3 picks - I think I'd rather have the Puretide Chip, Countermeasures and Stabilizer Jets. If there are points for a third chonker, then Manga is is.
I could drop the Ethereal for a Fireblade. The thing with the Fish and Fireblade is that 10+2 fills'em up and they don't benefit from the aura when he's inside (and he'll be stuck inside for a turn or have issues keeping up, at least) and the breachers don't get a benefit from him at all. 4 Pulse shots per 1, maybe 2 Fish is not a lot when I fully expect them to get popped fairly quickly. I think having the Ethereal to put a 6+FNP on things is more useful.
I do think I'm putting both fish squads in Farsight, though. I've also thought a bit about 2x5 rather than 10x. But I think I gain more via strats on the 10x than I gain from less efficiency on attack allocation from opponents or blast.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 05:10:00
It's an interest approach and alot is going to depend alot on exactly how much each units points change but I have to say I haven't really felt the same hype that people have about transports as being worthwhile as they aren't ovsec and are a single model, i'll just possition or even charge it and force you to deploy away for the objective and xone you out they also become a big risk if you go second as while they are cheapish high toughness wounds they bring little to the table appart from mobility and the rest of your army will have a hard time covering cround if they get alpha stiked off the table turn 1.
I suspect 9th is going to favour armies with lots of movement and ability to deliver a beastly hit at the end of that movement.
Having your mobility locked into 1-2 units I feel will just seen them alpha'd and you'll loose on primary objectives very quickly.
TLDR your never winning vrs new marines that's for sure.
Apparently they have been confirmed at the leaked points
Basically your going to have to trim down hard on units you don't want to and try to figure out how you get firepower and obsec together in 9th to win the missions while everything costs more.
The drone changes hurt and the fly nerfs ontop of the increase to crisis suits just killed them. Stealthsuits aren't lookinh great either unfortunately, hasard suits seem to have ducked the GW radar.
I suspect Tau are going to be a very challenging army to play for the first 6 months or more of 9th.
Its going to come down to whats in the FAQ, but in general the above changes do hurt quite a bit. Im actually more worried about Custodes and GK than Marines (seriously, the banana lads are monstrous, and the smitey lads came out almost as well).
Target lock allows advancing and firing with heavy or rapid fire weapons at a -1. No changes to other support systems.
Stabilization systems custom tenet is still entirely pointless.
Ghostkeels got fethed.
Battlesuit keyword is, again, garbage.
There may be something in the tidewalls, but im not convinced.
Trying not to be salty but really GW you give marines assulat 2 Multi Meltas on a T5 3w for 40 points and we have to spend 60 points for 18 melta at BS4+, you really don't ever want us to play Crisis suits do you.
Trying not to be salty but really GW you give marines assulat 2 Multi Meltas on a T5 3w for 40 points and we have to spend 60 points for 18 melta at BS4+, you really don't ever want us to play Crisis suits do you.
Another reason Im happy to jettison matched play for the first few balance cycles of 9th. All aboard the Crusade train.
If you look past the Shield Drones and Riptides the army as a whole gets out fairly well on points increases. Everyone went up, so you have to look at the field.
Like, Goonhammer's example list putting them on the higher end is triptides and shielddrones - both were nerfed and everyone expected it.
If you don't like those lists? Nows the time to do something different.
(of course gundrones didn't go anywhere! so swap those into a triptide list and you're below the field's overall increase)
On the otherhand, Crisis actually got a relative reduction in cost compared to the field because they didn't go up much and the guns didn't go up at all. Commanders are in a similar position. Lots of gun point costs got rolled into the basic cost too.
The balance of Marines is something I'm just ignoring - clearly GW is.
As far as the FAQ...well I didn't expect much and that's what we got. They changed wording so rules function in the new edition and basically nothing else.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 18:38:33
On the otherhand, Crisis actually got a relative reduction in cost compared to the field because they didn't go up much and the guns didn't go up at all. Commanders are in a similar position. Lots of gun point costs got rolled into the basic cost too.
I firmly disagree with this. The increases in Fire Warriors, Shield Drones, and Commanders (three units that Tau currently do not function without) all compound. Furthermore, this level of increase in a setting of losing the functions that smaller Battlesuit units did is not a "relative buff".
Simply put, the tau roster got worse, and more expensive across the board.
As far as the FAQ...well I didn't expect much and that's what we got. They changed wording so rules function in the new edition and basically nothing else.
The infuriating part is that they couldnt even do that right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 18:38:38
If you just focus on, for example, FWs going up two points, and ignore what happened to everyone else.
But look and see that Scions went up the same as FWs and Dire Avengers went up from 8 to 13!...things aren't looking so bad. FWs even got a free pulse pistol in the exchange.
The 4xFusion Coldstar Commander went up 16% total, which is only a bit more than average - that's not so bad.
Functionally, if everyone goes up and you go up less, that's relatively good for you. Tau have several examples of usable units that fit in that category (2xCIB+ATS Crisis went up only %10 - below the whole-game average) while some others were hit harder. It's a mixed bag but it could have been much worse.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 19:07:38
rbstr wrote: If you just focus on, for example, FWs going up two points, and ignore what happened to everyone else.
But look and see that Scions went up the same as FWs and Dire Avengers went up from 8 to 13!...things aren't looking so bad. FWs even got a free pulse pistol in the exchange.
Functionally, if everyone goes up and you go up less, that's good for you. Tau have several examples of usable units that fit in that category.
Woo the guys my opponents were wiping off the table now cost more and have some pistols they will never get to use.
You either FTGG/Overwatch stuff to death or they wipe your units has been my experiance with FW in CC.
The issue with crisis suits is they felt over pointed and required sinking lots of points and CP into the unit to make it work, now it costs more CP can't maximise it's size without taking it on the chin from D3 blast weapons and a 3 model unit doesn't work as a bodyguard/screening unit. Justifying Taking Crisis suits is harder in 9th than 8th and they weren't great in 8th.
The issue with shield drones and riptides going up is tau win not buy outshooting people but by outsurviving and makong comeback plays turn 4,5,6 we now need to be on objectives turn 2. The codex as it is writen and pointed feels like it's going to need some janky playing to help it along.
So far I think my next FW order is going to include some XV9's to see if they can help.
rbstr wrote: If you just focus on, for example, FWs going up two points, and ignore what happened to everyone else.
But look and see that Scions went up the same as FWs and Dire Avengers went up from 8 to 13!...things aren't looking so bad. FWs even got a free pulse pistol in the exchange.
The 4xFusion Coldstar Commander went up 16% total, which is only a bit more than average - that's not so bad.
Functionally, if everyone goes up and you go up less, that's relatively good for you. Tau have several examples of usable units that fit in that category (2xCIB+ATS Crisis went up only %10 - below the whole-game average) while some others were hit harder. It's a mixed bag but it could have been much worse.
Fire Warriors dont give a feth about pistols, and points increases on nearly all major factions infantry options are more than outweighed by points reductions in special weapons they carry.
I dont care if it could have been "worse". This was an across the board degradation of function. There is zero to celebrate about that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 19:09:58
Clearly you guy don't understand what "relative" means.
Crisis Suits, when compared to all the units in the game, got relatively cheaper than they were before. Is that enough to make them good? Doubtful. Playable? Maybe. Firewarriors stayed on par with the comparable stuff or actually came out better.
if you still don't like them, whatever, but the math says that. It's not a judgment on usefulness alone.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 19:14:18
rbstr wrote: Clearly you don't understand what "relative" means.
Crisis Suits, when compared to all the units in the game, got relatively cheaper than they were before. Is that enough to make them good? Doubtful. Playable? Maybe
Im a data scientist and clinical researcher. I know precisely what relative means. What you seem to be incapable of grasping is that I do not care.
These points and rules changes do one thing: push people towards the bunker of shield drones and mega suits, which is now objectively worse off. I have zero interest in that playstyle, and in the long term it is self-destructive to the army.
rbstr wrote: Clearly you don't understand what "relative" means.
Crisis Suits, when compared to all the units in the game, got relatively cheaper than they were before. Is that enough to make them good? Doubtful. Playable? Maybe
How did they get relatively cheaper?
New Gravis melta boys 40ppm with 24 assualt metla that gets 2 shots.
Custodes went up 2-3 points.
Crisis suits increased 6 points and lost fly yeah real relative buff their lad.
Ice_can wrote: How did they get relatively cheaper?
New Gravis melta boys 40ppm with 24 assualt metla that gets 2 shots.
Custodes went up 2-3 points.
Crisis suits increased 6 points and lost fly yeah real relative buff their lad.
And Fire Dragons went over average, and Retributors w/ Multimelta up some 17%. Overall points went up ~14%( in competitive lists). Cherry picking like that misses the point entirely- everyone knows Eradicators stick out like a sore thumb.
Sterling, If you want to ignore my point to whine about precious riptides and shielddrones fine. That clearly doesn't have much to do with my point. You're welcome to come over and compare PhDs if you want to be Mr. Credentials but I'm through with this here.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 19:32:24
Sterling, If you want to ignore my point to whine about precious riptides and shielddrones fine. That clearly doesn't have much to do with my point. Yyou're welcome to come over and compare PhDs if you want to be Mr. Credentials.
What part of I HAVE NO INTEREST IN A BUNKER OF SHIELD DRONES AND MEGA SUITS is too complicated for you? I want to be able to play with things other than models that are propped up by saviour protocols. I want Tau to be the aggressive midfield mobile force it was just starting to be at the end of 8th.
Your point, that Crisis suits didnt get completely fethed by points, is irrelevant. Rules, points, and the entire 9th environment, are abundantly clear about what the competitive meta is going to look like.
Except you know how firedragons changes in pointa effect eldar lists 0 as they never took them anyway. The units you did taken and will take in eldar lists didnt go up that much.
The Tau problem is GW just took every unit we were taking or moght take and slapped it with points increases.
Tau are not going to be fun to play for the first year of 9th edition is what I'm seeing so far.
So either you are willing to play the most efficient units we have in an extremely competitive tournament environment, or you play casual games. No point in whining about having to play big suits.
On the other hand: in casual games crisis totally rock and I love them.
What do you guys think about the barracuda now? I think it's going to be a very strong unit