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Also, not sure if this has been pointed out but Saviour Protocols is going to be a thing this edition, especially for vehicles. Remember how you would basically always take smart missiles over attached drones? Well that is no longer an obvious choice. Sacraficing drones from wounds that would otherwise cause multiple damage, per wound, saved my Sun Shark in both games. I would say that the gun drones would be a better choice for fish and a decent choice for hammerheads.

Well I can see why people like triple flamer crisis suits, its crazy. Was getting an average of 30+ hits a volley and even on a 5+ to wound the shear volume was devastating. Killed over 5 Killer Kans and a Deff Dread just form the shear amount of hits. Nothing managed to get into close combat against the suits. Although I was wondering which works out better 3 flamers or 2 flamers with -1 AP? I assume on most weapons -1AP works out better then reroll 1's?


Has anyone come across the Nid tactics of giving everything -3 to hit. Well I think it was -2 to hit in a bubble which turned into -3 as the person advanced. It was the game next to me so I wasn't fully watching.

Reading this thread it looks like Tau are literraly an unplayable faction at the bottom of the game, whereas I, like many, look to pick our Tau army again.
They are pretty much middle of the road like most armies except 3-4 that are above (in a roster of 25+ it means we are just balanced)

I think most of the problem is that the Waac crowd have to buy other minis. And people that hastily glued their riptide for a tourney without magnetizing are now stuck with the ion cannon.

most of the problems (tigershark not able to fire, etc) can be dealt with by playing against actual human beings.

In the tigershark case, given FW will make a brand new one with 5 weapons option, I'm pretty sure we will have a new dataslate within a months or 2.

I dont know if most of the poster here are people obsessing over being top of their country and getting every cashprize but its not THAT bad.

Actual people obsessed about winning like to switch to the broken army every few months (As people have been suggesting here), people obsessed with about winning with Tau are already fielding or have commissioned 5 commanders and xv109...

People that like Tau for being Tau didnt sold their army and are actually enjoying the new strategies involved.

Dont worry for FW units they will all be overhauled in the next IA out this summer and judging by AoS, the fist 40k faq will be out soon.

Meanwhile I will continue to field my "suboptimal" 3 XV88 with railgun and 2xplasma because i like them, and fielding them against people also using "suboptimal" choices in their army.

Relax, enjoy your tau and definetly magnetize your next purchase

edit : while I was writing this they publised a faq buffing longstrike and nerfing commander, as you see they are ACTIVELY balancing the game this time, dont sell your army just yet.

Annnnd Tau get nerfed again in the newest FAQ.

"Savior protocol" got nerfed. It now inflicts a mortal wound on the drone.

"Master of war" can only be used once regardless of the number of commanders.

"Drone controllers" dont stack

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_2_ver_1.0.pdf

notredameguy10 wrote:
Annnnd Tau get nerfed again in the newest FAQ.

"Savior protocol" got nerfed. It now inflicts a mortal wound on the drone.

"Master of war" can only be used once regardless of the number of commanders.

"Drone controllers" dont stack

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_2_ver_1.0.pdf

So pretty much no point in taking shield drones, here I was hoping that they would finally be usable if not as good as gun drones. Oh well, not surprised that master of war is one use only, that seemed pretty clear already

However the ATS now does apply to the CC weapon on commanders and XV8s! So not all dire news I suppose

ERRATA
Page 183 – Close combat weapon
Change the AP characteristic to read ‘0’

Intriguingly, Longstrike now adds his +1 to hit Aura buff to himself (they removed the "other" from "other friendly TAU SEPT TX7 Hammerhead Gunships", and aura abilities are presumed to affect the aura-granting model unless stated otherwise).

That means that Longstrike can move and fire effectively without penalty.

The change to Savior Protocols is unfortunate, but more closely matches similar mechanics found everywhere else in every other army, so it probably should have been expected. It really does make Shield Drones worth so much less, and they're competing against Gun Drones, ferchristsake.

Mastery of War was already pretty clear that it was once per army per battle, unless you're Shadowsun or Farsight.

Similar deal with Drone Controllers, really - the wording made it pretty clear that the effect was binary (you get the bonus or you don't), not stackable.

Neither a death knell, nor a Return at the Dawn of the Third Day at the Turn the Tides, for the T'au. We mostly play the same, unless you were trying to cheese up Mastery of War or Drone Controllers.

The FAQ really changes little for tau armies.

We already took longstrike and ATS coldstars, they got a spec better.
We already ignored shield drones-its the gun drones who suffer a bit, as when they use savior against a shot with AP worse than -3, they lose their chance to save. though, using savior against low AP shot wasn't a common use.

Overall, we barely notice the FAQ.

I barely have a toe in the Tau pool (my main forces are Marines and Tyranid), but, for Shield drones, it seem sthat their best use isn't pulling wounds from things now, but for absorbing fire to protect the gun drones.

So, a unit of, say, 12 drones could be 8 Gun Drones and 4 Shield Drones, and whenever you have fire on the way in, you take the hits on the shields first, since they shrug off AP, before letting some guns die. Not amazing, true, but still some use.

Meanwhile, I'm curious how the Tau military itself is laid out. What's their version of a marine company? My gut instinct says a base 12 system, so 144 soldiers in a 'company', but, I'm not sure. The fluff! I am several editions behind. :(

Wakshaani wrote:
I barely have a toe in the Tau pool (my main forces are Marines and Tyranid), but, for Shield drones, it seem sthat their best use isn't pulling wounds from things now, but for absorbing fire to protect the gun drones.

So, a unit of, say, 12 drones could be 8 Gun Drones and 4 Shield Drones, and whenever you have fire on the way in, you take the hits on the shields first, since they shrug off AP, before letting some guns die. Not amazing, true, but still some use.

Meanwhile, I'm curious how the Tau military itself is laid out. What's their version of a marine company? My gut instinct says a base 12 system, so 144 soldiers in a 'company', but, I'm not sure. The fluff! I am several editions behind. :(

Except T4 4+ is not terribly durable against small arms infantry firepower (while our battlesuits tend to be far more durable in that department), and Shield Drones provide exactly 0 extra protection over another gun drone against that sort of weapon fire.

Most weapons with high rend will be better suited to other parts of our army anyway (battlesuits, tanks, etc), so if they're using AP 2 or 3 weapons to take out Gun Drones, well... that's generally expensive dakka to spend on 8 point model targets.

I could imagine a single Shield Drone to make an enemy looking to lavishly spend AP 2/3 weaponry on Drones not feel too insecure about spending it anyway (and maybe even saving a Gun Drone or two in the process from annihilation), but more than that discourages stupid enemy behavior, and I don't like that one bit.

If you're taking more than 1 Shield Drone, you're seriously going to have to consider whether to sacrifice the Shield Drone through Savior Protocols when the possibility comes up (instead of a Gun Drone, which we should all remember is outputting 4+ Pulse shots a round every shooting phase it exists and a target is within 18"), and thereby result in AP 2-3 wounds (targetted at the target unit, because why not, because the target unit is the one worth wounding anyway) effectively ignoring the Shield Drone's save entirely.

Because remember, the Gun and Marker Drones are the ones with active offensive output - they're the ones you brought the shield drones to shield, since the shield drone is no better as an ablative wound and has no other discernable purpose.

It just... Shield Drones need to be looked at again, post FAQ, and figured out. That's not too much to ask, I think.

Hrm. If that's the case, then maybe the Invulnerable Save should be replaced by a 5+ Feel no Pain, which can be used to absorb mortal wounds? A 4+ wound be too strong and a 6+ too weak I think, but then they'd sometimes live through snacking on hits.

Wakshaani wrote:
Hrm. If that's the case, then maybe the Invulnerable Save should be replaced by a 5+ Feel no Pain, which can be used to absorb mortal wounds? A 4+ wound be too strong and a 6+ too weak I think, but then they'd sometimes live through snacking on hits.

Or just give them a special rule that says "Can use their invulnerable saves against Savior Protocol wounds" or something similar.

It gives Shield Drones a purpose again (they're better at being ablative wounds, as they damn well ought to be), and it doesn't make Shield Drones too powerful outside of their niche (5+ FNP rolls all the time would give them a lot more utility outside of the Savior Protocol context, and that seems intuitively like that might be a bit much to ask).

Either option would be fine by me, though. Anything to make Shield Drones worth taking against opponents with more than one firing neuron.

Bach wrote:Also, not sure if this has been pointed out but Saviour Protocols is going to be a thing this edition, especially for vehicles. Remember how you would basically always take smart missiles over attached drones? Well that is no longer an obvious choice. Sacraficing drones from wounds that would otherwise cause multiple damage, per wound, saved my Sun Shark in both games. I would say that the gun drones would be a better choice for fish and a decent choice for hammerheads.

Isn't Sunshark a vehicle? Saviour Protocols only works on infantry and battlesuits.

Klone12 wrote:
I think most of the problem is that the Waac crowd have to buy other minis. And people that hastily glued their riptide for a tourney without magnetizing are now stuck with the ion cannon.

Heavy Burst Cannon was better in Riptide wing anyway.

notredameguy10 wrote:Annnnd Tau get nerfed again in the newest FAQ.

"Savior protocol" got nerfed. It now inflicts a mortal wound on the drone.

"Master of war" can only be used once regardless of the number of commanders.

"Drone controllers" dont stack

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_2_ver_1.0.pdf

Only nerf was the one affecting Saviour Protocols. Other stuff was known already despite sketchy wording. If you've used multiple Master of Wars you've been doing it wrong.

Klone12 wrote:
Reading this thread it looks like Tau are literraly an unplayable faction at the bottom of the game, whereas I, like many, look to pick our Tau army again.
They are pretty much middle of the road like most armies except 3-4 that are above (in a roster of 25+ it means we are just balanced)

I think most of the problem is that the Waac crowd have to buy other minis. And people that hastily glued their riptide for a tourney without magnetizing are now stuck with the ion cannon.

most of the problems (tigershark not able to fire, etc) can be dealt with by playing against actual human beings.

In the tigershark case, given FW will make a brand new one with 5 weapons option, I'm pretty sure we will have a new dataslate within a months or 2.

I dont know if most of the poster here are people obsessing over being top of their country and getting every cashprize but its not THAT bad.

Actual people obsessed about winning like to switch to the broken army every few months (As people have been suggesting here), people obsessed with about winning with Tau are already fielding or have commissioned 5 commanders and xv109...

People that like Tau for being Tau didnt sold their army and are actually enjoying the new strategies involved.

Dont worry for FW units they will all be overhauled in the next IA out this summer and judging by AoS, the fist 40k faq will be out soon.

Meanwhile I will continue to field my "suboptimal" 3 XV88 with railgun and 2xplasma because i like them, and fielding them against people also using "suboptimal" choices in their army.

Relax, enjoy your tau and definetly magnetize your next purchase

edit : while I was writing this they publised a faq buffing longstrike and nerfing commander, as you see they are ACTIVELY balancing the game this time, dont sell your army just yet.

Tau arnt broken their really strong you just have to recognize they are a CC hoard army just repeat "I am Kroot" 60 times if you try and run a gun line like 7th youll lose that admech and IG territory now adapt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is what a strong 2000pt tau list is now
Brigade
HQ
1 Ethereal + Equilizers +gun drone + 2 ethereals144
Troop
12 units of kroot Carnivores 720pts
EL
3 Kroot Shapers 93pts
FA
3 Units of Kroot Hounds +2 units of vespid Stingwings 168
HS 3 units of Sniper Drones
Battalion
HQ 2
Ethereal 90pt
Troop
6 Units of Kroot Carnivore (1 unit with an extra kroot 36)366pts
Fa
1 unit of kroot Hounds + 2 units of kroot hounds with an extra hound 56pts
Outrider detatchment
HQ
1 Ethereal 45pts
Troop
1 unit of kroot Carnivores 60pts
FA
6 units of kroot Hounds 96pts


The volume of wounds and attacks is huge

Page 242 – Understrength Units
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay the
Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized unit,
even though it contains fewer models. If you are using
points, you only pay the points for the models you
actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still
takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment.’

Am I missing something here or can I choose to take a single Stealthsuit/Battlesuit in a squad? For example, rather than taking 3 stealthsuits with drone controllers to provide buffs, I can choose just to take 1 and save myself 70 points?

With this being the case, what's the point of even having a minimum unit size rule?

Asura Varuna wrote:

Page 242 – Understrength Units
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay the
Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized unit,
even though it contains fewer models. If you are using
points, you only pay the points for the models you
actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still
takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment.’

Am I missing something here or can I choose to take a single Stealthsuit/Battlesuit in a squad? For example, rather than taking 3 stealthsuits with drone controllers to provide buffs, I can choose just to take 1 and save myself 70 points?

With this being the case, what's the point of even having a minimum unit size rule?

Read it again - minimum-sized unit. Is the minimum size for a Stealth Squad one?

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:


Read it again - minimum-sized unit. Is the minimum size for a Stealth Squad one?

If you are using
points, you only pay the points for the models you
actually have in an understrength unit

Apologies if I'm just being thick, but the first point appears to refer to power levels, and the second to points. EDIT: I'm referring to games played with points of course, which seem to be the norm. Power levels is of course very cut and dry from the quote.

EDIT2: Just checked again in the rulebook and you're limited to a single understrength unit of a given type. So you army may include one unit with a single battlesuit of a given type. (Though there appears to be no restriction on having an understrength unit and another larger unit, eg one unit of 1 and one unit of 5...)

Just played another game, against tyranids; tested out some of my forgeworld models (some I have had for years...). - 2k game.

A few overall observations;

Suicide commander (4 fusion); I ran a four fusion commander with two shield drones (which are now pointless thanks to the faq - thanks gw). He did his job - dropped in the back lines, disintegrated a Tervigon, then promptly got killed (smite killed the drones first,then he got chopped up by the swarmlord).

Missile commander - four missile pods, two shield drones. I debated taking three missiles and an ATS, but the extra fire was nice - especially for split fire. This thing mocks a missileside. Of course, the shield drones are now worthless....but will use gun or marker drones in the future.

Darkstryder - again, awesome. Structural analyzer means T6 is now wounded on 4s with pulse weapons - very nice. The better use of course was his Fighting Retreat - this enabled two firewarrior squads the ability to retreat from combat - and blast the heck out of the tyrands that were in their face.

Sunshark - bombs are indeed good - flew over a big group of genestealers - bombed them as wanted to negate their invul. very nice. However, depending upon the layout - not easy to get a second bomb run....other weapons are decent enough. A keeper in my book.

Kroot, lots of them - perfect for holding objectives, and just screening the backfield - had three units of 10, with an ethereal babysitting for morale. Did their job, had no deepstrikers in the back lines, and did a few wounds here and there.

Piranha - nice and fast and decent dakka for the points. yes, he is expensive compared to a bunch of drones - but has a good moverate, and enough durability that it takes an effort to kill him - great for objective grabbing and pestering units.

Droneport - loaded with four marker drones, a rail rifle pathfinder squad and a cadre fireblade. While I am almost never going to bother trying to get more than one or two markerlights (really gw?) - a single markerlight has proven its worth to me time, and time again.
The droneport gives badly needed protection to pathfinders, and the drone rules are awesome BS2+ drones. was very useful.

Piranha tx42 - the railrifles are very nice, especially when backed up by markerlights (yes, you will roll 1s). not a big winner - still needs more tests.

Remora stealth drone - ignore the math hammer downvotes - this thing is pure win for someone who recognizes its true power - it is a flyers without the limitations of flyers. This was a great objective grabber and could go anywhere - it does not have supersonic - think about that. pure win.

107 Rvarna - sadly, this beautiful suit is now OP. I will not use him again, unless playing in a game against other armies or units I consider OP. If I wanted OP, I would have kept playing my tau last edition (I retired my necrons and tau for most of 7th). Very disappointing. I would like to see a slight nerft (maybe just make the guns heavy 4 each) and a points reduction, so he can be used in more games. I don't want useless models, but I don't want OP crap either. If I want an OP fight, I will arm wrestle my 3yr old.

I managed to sieze and he was caught off guard, and of course good target priority (it took much discipline to not shoot certain units turn one) crippled his early offense (I killed two harpies turn one, and a tervigon) - completely shutting down his turn 1 assault.

Care to elaborate more on the Ramora drones?

I'd like to get more info on how the R'varna is OP. The Y'vahra seems to be a much better investiment.

Which units did you target with the R'varna? Did you roll too well?

I too would like to hear about the remora, how exactly is it good?

Not supersonic, but it isn't hard to kill at all, and it has minimum movement, and a pretty big one, so it can hardly go "anywhere you want", nor does it pack overly impressive firepower.

Shield drones do still get to use their invulnerable save if you're using them as a screening unit to prevent targeting of commanders (or other characters); so effectively a nerf to using them with standard battlesuits, but not so much characters.

Shame, as in my first game I'd realised that one pair of shield drones could protect two or three units very effectively thanks to the radius effect, which I see could get a little OP. Personally I think it would have been better to reduce the area of effect rather than the effectiveness of the protocols, but oh well.

Hey guys, as a new Tau player what GW and FW models would you recommend getting to build a 2k army based on 8th so far?

Gibs55 wrote:
Hey guys, as a new Tau player what GW and FW models would you recommend getting to build a 2k army based on 8th so far?

You need to be more specific about the purpose of your upcoming list. Do you want to be more competitive or casual or something that is a good base for all kinds of play? Everything is playable to some extent (except Skyray, it's useless). Can't go wrong with Start Collecting! -box or two, a couple of Commanders and all the drones you can get your hands on. Add a Fireblade to that, it's a must for Fire Warriors (and Drones). Broadsides aren't that bad. Pathfinders are ok. Hammerhead played as a Longstrike is solid too. Of Forgeworld models, I hear Y'vahra is still good, but I don't own one.

 Fueli wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
Hey guys, as a new Tau player what GW and FW models would you recommend getting to build a 2k army based on 8th so far?

You need to be more specific about the purpose of your upcoming list. Do you want to be more competitive or casual or something that is a good base for all kinds of play? Everything is playable to some extent (except Skyray, it's useless). Can't go wrong with Start Collecting! -box or two, a couple of Commanders and all the drones you can get your hands on. Add a Fireblade to that, it's a must for Fire Warriors (and Drones). Broadsides aren't that bad. Pathfinders are ok. Hammerhead played as a Longstrike is solid too. Of Forgeworld models, I hear Y'vahra is still good, but I don't own one.

Something that will be competitive, have some variety and isn't cheesy I guess.

Gibs55 wrote:

 Fueli wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
Hey guys, as a new Tau player what GW and FW models would you recommend getting to build a 2k army based on 8th so far?

You need to be more specific about the purpose of your upcoming list. Do you want to be more competitive or casual or something that is a good base for all kinds of play? Everything is playable to some extent (except Skyray, it's useless). Can't go wrong with Start Collecting! -box or two, a couple of Commanders and all the drones you can get your hands on. Add a Fireblade to that, it's a must for Fire Warriors (and Drones). Broadsides aren't that bad. Pathfinders are ok. Hammerhead played as a Longstrike is solid too. Of Forgeworld models, I hear Y'vahra is still good, but I don't own one.

Something that will be competitive, have some variety and isn't cheesy I guess.

I have no idea what's currently the most competitive list for Tau, but I assume it includes a ton of Drones and Commanders. Those are our best units for pure dakka.

The homing beacon thing is not unclear I'm afraid. Every faction (AFAIK) has lists of what wargear is available to whom. You are allowed to buy stuff from those lists and from what it says on the datasheet. Nothing else. Having a points cost in the index is irrelevant.

Otherwise we'd be fielding commanders with pulse driver cannons and supremacy railguns, and people would be deep striking scion command squads with demolisher cannons. No.

On another topic, following the FAQ is there any point at all in shield drones? Now here's the rule from the FAQ (https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_2_ver_1.0.pdf):

Saviour Protocols
Change this rule to read:
‘Saviour Protocols: If a <Sept> Drones unit is within 3" of a friendly <Sept> Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.’

I'm still not entirely sure what "successfully wounds" means. Is that before or after armour saves, stim injectors etc? It does seem to be before you roll a D3 or D6 to see how many wounds are caused. But whenever it is, it just kills a drone with a mortal wound. A shield drone's invulnerable save is no help - so why would you ever buy one instead of a gun or marker drone?

Mandragola wrote:


I'm still not entirely sure what "successfully wounds" means. Is that before or after armour saves, stim injectors etc? It does seem to be before you roll a D3 or D6 to see how many wounds are caused. But whenever it is, it just kills a drone with a mortal wound. A shield drone's invulnerable save is no help - so why would you ever buy one instead of a gun or marker drone?

I reckon it refers to making a successful wound roll, but yeah, they managed to make it ambiguous again (hire a linguist ffs!).

Shield Drones seem to be worse than before, but I can see them work as an actual defensive screen instead of just ablative wounds. All things considered, I agree that Gun Drones are probably better in most cases.

 Fueli wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:

 Fueli wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
Hey guys, as a new Tau player what GW and FW models would you recommend getting to build a 2k army based on 8th so far?

You need to be more specific about the purpose of your upcoming list. Do you want to be more competitive or casual or something that is a good base for all kinds of play? Everything is playable to some extent (except Skyray, it's useless). Can't go wrong with Start Collecting! -box or two, a couple of Commanders and all the drones you can get your hands on. Add a Fireblade to that, it's a must for Fire Warriors (and Drones). Broadsides aren't that bad. Pathfinders are ok. Hammerhead played as a Longstrike is solid too. Of Forgeworld models, I hear Y'vahra is still good, but I don't own one.

Something that will be competitive, have some variety and isn't cheesy I guess.

I have no idea what's currently the most competitive list for Tau, but I assume it includes a ton of Drones and Commanders. Those are our best units for pure dakka.

I was thinking about getting;

Start collecting Tau
2x Commanders
Optimised Stealth Cadre

Are the fire warriors and path finders a duel kit? Would that be a viable start point with some good units?

Gibs55 wrote:

Are the fire warriors and path finders a duel kit? Would that be a viable start point with some good units?

I'm afraid not, they are seperate kits. However there's a kit with a devilfish and a pathfinder team that you might find useful. Pathfinders don't really want a devilfish but the breachers in the start collecting set do.

If you wanted, you could take the pathfinder bodies and stick the pulse rifles, heads and shoulder pads from the breacher kit on them. You'd end up with a unit of fire warriors and a unit of breachers. I think that would work ok.

Incidentally, why are people even bothering with the idea of flamer crisis suits, dropped into position with homing beacons? I guess it's cool that Tau have a way to get flamers into position like this (as most people don't). But, as your mum must have told you, just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. Flamers just don't do that much more damage, point for point, than guys who are happy to drop 9-18" away and shoot burst cannons, massed pulse carbines and so on - especially once you factor in the cost of the stealth team, and the risk of having that team killed on turn 1.