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 Haechi wrote:
I just realized that Riptides don't have to bring (and pay for) the shielded missile drones. So it bring the price down by 50 points!

My Riptide now costs 299 with HBC, two plasma rifles, ATS, and stimulant injector.

The rest of my list being full of markerlights, not having target lock is not an issue for me.

With those 50 free points I can get 5 gun drones to escort the riptide. Damn.

Sorry if everybody knew about this, but it's an enlightenment to me haha.

I find it very hard to field a riptide without a target lock.
Just become far too dependant on markerlights at that point.

And once you take a target lock, and assuming you have an ATS, the SMS is just so much better than the plasma.

The stims, while on paper crazy effective on the riptide, actually serve no purpose.
The riptide hsould'nt be shot at to begin with. its a high durability unit with relatively low firepower per cost, any shots directed at it are wasteful anyway-and putting the stims just discourages shooting at it even more.

Investing further durability in a unit already deep into durability on the durability/lethality scale isn't that useful in my opinion.

If we could take the stims ALOND the ATS, target lock and multitracker (to be truly independant of markerlights), I'd reckon I'd go for it. but otherwise, not seem to be worth the hardpoint.

Ok guys due to the FAQ on how drones work, it seems after your Crisis team takes a wound, you allocate a mortal wound to the drone squad thats with them. Now here is my question.

Lets say you have a 3 man Crisis team. One of them has a shield generator. Can I roll my inv save 1 at a time against high ap wounds, and every time I fail assign it to a drone? How does wound allocation work in this case. Lets say I take a bunch of ap-3 shots. Do I have to take any wounds to my other Crisis suits if they dont have inv saves?

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
I just realized that Riptides don't have to bring (and pay for) the shielded missile drones. So it bring the price down by 50 points!

My Riptide now costs 299 with HBC, two plasma rifles, ATS, and stimulant injector.

The rest of my list being full of markerlights, not having target lock is not an issue for me.

With those 50 free points I can get 5 gun drones to escort the riptide. Damn.

Sorry if everybody knew about this, but it's an enlightenment to me haha.

I find it very hard to field a riptide without a target lock.
Just become far too dependant on markerlights at that point.

And once you take a target lock, and assuming you have an ATS, the SMS is just so much better than the plasma.

The stims, while on paper crazy effective on the riptide, actually serve no purpose.
The riptide hsould'nt be shot at to begin with. its a high durability unit with relatively low firepower per cost, any shots directed at it are wasteful anyway-and putting the stims just discourages shooting at it even more.

Investing further durability in a unit already deep into durability on the durability/lethality scale isn't that useful in my opinion.

If we could take the stims ALOND the ATS, target lock and multitracker (to be truly independant of markerlights), I'd reckon I'd go for it. but otherwise, not seem to be worth the hardpoint.

I haven't actually played it yet, so maybe you're right. But I want to try running the adrenaline not for being shot at, but to maybe save the Nova charge mortal wound. If it's not this, then of course target lock would be better. But my list runs 20 Pathfinders, Darkstrider, a Fireblade, and 3 Strike Team's Shas'ui with ML, so I think I'm good on ML and can let go of the TL.
Plasmas are just here to be the cheapest option. I think Riptides are too expensive for the damage they can do, so focusing only on the HBC is the only way to make it affordable. Anything you add on top of it makes it too expensive for what it is.

You might be right that there is no real point in saving the Nova mortal wound though. I'll have to think about it.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Ok guys due to the FAQ on how drones work, it seems after your Crisis team takes a wound, you allocate a mortal wound to the drone squad thats with them. Now here is my question.

Lets say you have a 3 man Crisis team. One of them has a shield generator. Can I roll my inv save 1 at a time against high ap wounds, and every time I fail assign it to a drone? How does wound allocation work in this case. Lets say I take a bunch of ap-3 shots. Do I have to take any wounds to my other Crisis suits if they dont have inv saves?

You assign the wound to a drone prior to saves.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Ok guys due to the FAQ on how drones work, it seems after your Crisis team takes a wound, you allocate a mortal wound to the drone squad thats with them. Now here is my question.

Lets say you have a 3 man Crisis team. One of them has a shield generator. Can I roll my inv save 1 at a time against high ap wounds, and every time I fail assign it to a drone? How does wound allocation work in this case. Lets say I take a bunch of ap-3 shots. Do I have to take any wounds to my other Crisis suits if they dont have inv saves?

You assign the wound to a drone prior to saves.

Thats not what the FAQ states here :

Pages 53, 56, 57, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73
and 74 – Saviour Protocols
Change this rule to read:
‘Saviour Protocols: If a <Sept> Drones unit is within 3"
of a friendly <Sept> Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit
unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you
can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of
the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal
wound instead of the normal damage.’

Source : https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_2_ver_1.0.pdf

Successfully wounding a model is passing the SvT roll.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Successfully wounding a model is passing the SvT roll.

Oh I get it now. You allocate the wound before you roll the save. Derp. So shield drones do serve a purpose after all. heh.

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Successfully wounding a model is passing the SvT roll.

Oh I get it now. You allocate the wound before you roll the save. Derp. So shield drones do serve a purpose after all. heh.

No, they don't, as when the wound is allocated to the drone it becomes a mortal wound. And Invulnerable saves can't be taken against mortal wounds.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Successfully wounding a model is passing the SvT roll.

Oh I get it now. You allocate the wound before you roll the save. Derp. So shield drones do serve a purpose after all. heh.

No, they don't, as when the wound is allocated to the drone it becomes a mortal wound. And Invulnerable saves can't be taken against mortal wounds.

Hopefully they fix shield drones when the actual Tau codex comes out, cause right now there is not much point in taking them currently, unless your opponent specifically targets the drone unit with high ap weapons.

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Successfully wounding a model is passing the SvT roll.

Oh I get it now. You allocate the wound before you roll the save. Derp. So shield drones do serve a purpose after all. heh.

No, they don't, as when the wound is allocated to the drone it becomes a mortal wound. And Invulnerable saves can't be taken against mortal wounds.

Hopefully they fix shield drones when the actual Tau codex comes out, cause right now there is not much point in taking them currently, unless your opponent specifically targets the drone unit with high ap weapons.

Yup, at the moment the only possible use for Shield Drones is to bubble wrap a character so the opponent has to shoot at them rather than the character. But then they only have a 4++ so you can just down them with basic guns and hit the Commander with the High AP and/or damage stuff after they're dead.

And even then, you could be bubble wrapping him with Gun drones who have the same save against guns with no AP but also contribute to shooting. So basically unless you can get into a position where the only weapons which can shoot at your commander would be high ap and/or damage, gun drones are always going to be the better pick.

So i dont use marker lights very often as honsetly i dont play more then what i thik looks cool, but why wouldnt they benifit eachother? Isnt it dont as a shooting attack or in the shooting phase? I kinda feel thats lime saying you dont apply effects untill every thing shoots in your army instead of squad by squad. So like wounds or other modifiers, that are instant. Why would this one thing not effect it?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Successfully wounding a model is passing the SvT roll.

Oh I get it now. You allocate the wound before you roll the save. Derp. So shield drones do serve a purpose after all. heh.

No, they don't, as when the wound is allocated to the drone it becomes a mortal wound. And Invulnerable saves can't be taken against mortal wounds.

Hopefully they fix shield drones when the actual Tau codex comes out, cause right now there is not much point in taking them currently, unless your opponent specifically targets the drone unit with high ap weapons.

Yup, at the moment the only possible use for Shield Drones is to bubble wrap a character so the opponent has to shoot at them rather than the character. But then they only have a 4++ so you can just down them with basic guns and hit the Commander with the High AP and/or damage stuff after they're dead.

And even then, you could be bubble wrapping him with Gun drones who have the same save against guns with no AP but also contribute to shooting. So basically unless you can get into a position where the only weapons which can shoot at your commander would be high ap and/or damage, gun drones are always going to be the better pick.

When someone is shooting the drone squad can you put a single shield drone in a gun drone squad take the invul save but if it fails take off a gun drone. That way the entire squad can get a save against high AP weapons from 1 single shield drone and without losing lots of firepower from multiple shield drones.

If this is correct it might be worth putting 1 shield drone in larger gun drone squads.

kellymatthew37 wrote:
So i dont use marker lights very often as honsetly i dont play more then what i thik looks cool, but why wouldnt they benifit eachother? Isnt it dont as a shooting attack or in the shooting phase? I kinda feel thats lime saying you dont apply effects untill every thing shoots in your army instead of squad by squad. So like wounds or other modifiers, that are instant. Why would this one thing not effect it?

Not all shooting happen at the same time otherwise you would have to declare your targets for every unit in your army before rolling any dice. But has it happens, if your XXX kills the enemy XXX, then your next unit can shoot something else. If one unit kills an enemy that was closer to you than a Character, your next unit can shoot at the Character. If all the shooting happened at once you wouldn't be able to.

On the Markerlights 1 by 1 thing
Remember you need to DECLARE where your shots will go at the start of shooting.
So, you can't for example in a large Pathfinder group "stop" if you hit 5 early.

 Haechi wrote:
Good point.

I've just watched a battle report with Drones losing models during a morale phase... Who made them leadership 6 seriously? How does that make any sense fluff wise? We have drones, low level artificial intelligence machines, who literally intercept projectiles at will to sacrifice themselves; but once too many of them get destroyed, they just fly away?

Not to mention they can't aim for gak.

It's stupid, but at the same time...
The majority of your drones will come in pairs.

If 1 dies, you need to roll a 6 to kill the other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:
I do wonder if we're underestimating the riptide. In particular, the protection that drones can give it might make it a lot tougher than it looks.

Shielded missile drones are a trap though. A very expensive model with a 4++ that it doesn't get to use if you pass wounds to it - because it just takes a mortal wound.

The thing that makes Shielded Missile Drones (and Missile Drones) a trap is the fact that they are BS5
Needing to babysit them with a DC is a waste of points.
The fact they carry a Shield is actually decently useful, since you're NOT SUPPOSED to pawn wounds off into a 25 point model.

If you need more Missile Pods, Fire Warrior DS8 Turrets are BS4
Tho again, I'm forced to just recommend a Monat instead for BS2.

 Talamare wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:
I do wonder if we're underestimating the riptide. In particular, the protection that drones can give it might make it a lot tougher than it looks.

Shielded missile drones are a trap though. A very expensive model with a 4++ that it doesn't get to use if you pass wounds to it - because it just takes a mortal wound.

The thing that makes Shielded Missile Drones (and Missile Drones) a trap is the fact that they are BS5
Needing to babysit them with a DC is a waste of points.
The fact they carry a Shield is actually decently useful, since you're NOT SUPPOSED to pawn wounds off into a 25 point model.

If you need more Missile Pods, Fire Warrior DS8 Turrets are BS4
Tho again, I'm forced to just recommend a Monat instead for BS2.

You listed other ways in which shielded missile drones are a trap.

My point is that they are useless to protect the riptide, which is supposed to be part of their job. 3 gun drones would do a better job than one shielded missile drone, for a point less.

Saviour protocols is what potentially makes riptides good. It can tank small arms fire and pass lascannon hits to drones, so getting rid of the thing becomes very difficult.

I think I need to try one out, or even one with HBC and one with IA. I don't think their uselessness has been proven, yet.

I've used Iontide on my last two games. Nova charging the cannon and saving command point for reroll in case I roll low on shots, and its done pretty well. It's good against multi-wound models like Necron Destroyers with flat 3 damage or it can be used scraping wounds off of tanks. Still costs a bit too much I feel.

It sadly is. 107 points for a gun isn't worth it ever unless you go over a really impressive threshold of power, which the Ion Accelerator doesn't have. It's a strong gun but not strong enough for a minimum cost of 337 points.

Lots of units can do that kind of damage for half the price.

I think Riptide needs a complete overhaul

It have this appearance of being a very fast paced, in your face, mobile platform that dances around it's opponents.

It plays as a basically stationary turret in the back of your army.

Rail weaponry finally does what they felt like they should have been doing all these years. One shot, but dang does that one shot hurt. I'm even liking them in pathfinder units now since they can splitfire freely and for some reason have the same dang effect.

Side note: am i the only one thats rather miffed the Heavy Railgun for forgeworld has the same exact mortal wound effect as the lowly railrifle? Wound of a 6+, D3 additional mortal wounds....uh...not a higher chance of it or D6 or...? that feels really weird.

Rail rifle is 1 mortal wound on a 6+

Is anyone else finding that the Tau army concept of stronger but less accurate firepower and no assault units is not going to work for 8th edition?

Now that most weapons have been standardized as well as abilities (reroll, +1 to hit/wound..etc), Tau really don't have stronger firepower. But they stayed less accurate and now have zero presence of significant note in the charge/fight phase. 8th Tau are also paying premium points on the assumption that they have stronger firepower.

By the time the 8th Tau codex comes out I think Tau are going to need their play style reevaluated. Either they need to join the lofty heights of a BS 3+ army or their weapons need to be much more punishing (like railguns wounding vehicles/monsters on a +2 regardless of T or it needs to do something like 2D3 mortal wounds for its Damage).

Markerlights are still a thing though. And theyre technically nastier than before.
We dont spend them, so our entire army can focus fire something down. Firewarrior shas'uis and Cadre Fireblades can freely fire their markerlight AND their pulse rifles too, adding further lights to the target for future units' shots. Splitfire too if you dont want the firewarriors hitting the lighted target, but still need more lights.

The moment you get 5 lights on a target you hit like crazy. Multitrackers on suits and 5lights = 2+ hitting with reroll 1s. Thats not inaccurate at all.
If they made us 3+ shooting by default, markerlights need to be removed. Or default to only removing cover bonuses and seeker missiles, which means most people will just ignore them.
Yes thats only against 1 unit (2 if youre lucky as hell) but thats how Tau have largely always been. We obliterate whoever our MLs look at, need some good rolls against other things.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Is anyone else finding that the Tau army concept of stronger but less accurate firepower and no assault units is not going to work for 8th edition?

Now that most weapons have been standardized as well as abilities (reroll, +1 to hit/wound..etc), Tau really don't have stronger firepower. But they stayed less accurate and now have zero presence of significant note in the charge/fight phase. 8th Tau are also paying premium points on the assumption that they have stronger firepower.

By the time the 8th Tau codex comes out I think Tau are going to need their play style reevaluated. Either they need to join the lofty heights of a BS 3+ army or their weapons need to be much more punishing (like railguns wounding vehicles/monsters on a +2 regardless of T or it needs to do something like 2D3 mortal wounds for its Damage).

You're overestimating the amount of melee capable units in 40k. Most game I've seen so far have been between two ranged armies. Tau Battlesuits, especially the monster ones, while not being melee killing machines, are usually above anything you can find in an other ranged army. Charging vehicles such as Predators, Leman Russ, Transports, etc, or shooting troops like Tactical Marines, Devastators, and whatnot, usually grants you a few more wounds done while the returning hits are usually mediocre thanks to your high toughness and good armor. In the following turn, the unit you charged usually cannot fire at you or anything else, which removes that threat. Once it is your turn again, and if the suits are still alive, you are free to do it again if you're not engage, or disengage and do it again if you were, without losing your shooting phase.

Of course it doesn't work on an assault army, but even in that case you're in better shape than most ranged armies, with you good strength and high toughness. Suits are great man.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Markerlights are still a thing though. And theyre technically nastier than before.
We dont spend them, so our entire army can focus fire something down. Firewarrior shas'uis and Cadre Fireblades can freely fire their markerlight AND their pulse rifles too, adding further lights to the target for future units' shots. Splitfire too if you dont want the firewarriors hitting the lighted target, but still need more lights.

The moment you get 5 lights on a target you hit like crazy. Multitrackers on suits and 5lights = 2+ hitting with reroll 1s. Thats not inaccurate at all.
If they made us 3+ shooting by default, markerlights need to be removed. Or default to only removing cover bonuses and seeker missiles, which means most people will just ignore them.
Yes thats only against 1 unit (2 if youre lucky as hell) but thats how Tau have largely always been. We obliterate whoever our MLs look at, need some good rolls against other things.

If your not a vehicle you can't shoot a markerlight and another weapon, its in the markerlight rules.

With no scatter deepstrike I don't see patherfinders making it past a turn if they pose a threat and you need a fairly large amount of markerlights to reliably get 5 on a single target. Other than that stuff like multitrackers make markerlights redundant as its just more reroll ones unless you get the magic 5 hits. Still, even with reroll ones you are missing shots on a 2 and 3 with a 1 giving a reroll that then misses on a 1-3. That isn't exactly something to get giddy about, especially when your paying premium points.

Tau feel like they have returned to the 4th-5th edition days of being a heaping amount of "meh" mixed with some good concepts and a couple of units that could hold their own if you knew what you were doing.

Looking at the stats and point costs I'm becoming less convinced that Missile Broadsides are bad. I compared 2 of them to a unit of 4 Crisis suits with 2 MP each and the costs are comparable. The 2 Broadsides cost slightly more, but they have a better armor save and more weapons (don't forget those SMS!). So nearly double the firepower and a bit more durability at the cost of maneuverability. Of course, you'll probably sit still with the Crisis suits too, as they are too expensive to risk moving them forward once you pay for those Missiles. Now, I'm not saying MP Crisis are good (they probably are terrible), but I'm not as sure as I was that Missilesides are bad, either. Just camp them in cover and go to town, and maybe keep some drones nearby to jump in front of pesky lascannons...

And while we're on the subject of drones, I wonder if it is worth it to take Missile Drones for Broadsides. Yes, they're BS5+, but if a drone controller is nearby it gets better. They are cheaper than taking a MP on a Crisis suit and the same cost as a DS8 turret for Fire Warriors. Maybe let a couple of them run with a unit of Crisis Suits with Drone Controller and some gun drones to add a little heavier firepower. Of course, the downside is more available killpoints for the opponent, but that's kind of a given with any kind of drone support. Tau kind of auto-lose a Killpoint mission unless they can table their opponent.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Is anyone else finding that the Tau army concept of stronger but less accurate firepower and no assault units is not going to work for 8th edition?

Now that most weapons have been standardized as well as abilities (reroll, +1 to hit/wound..etc), Tau really don't have stronger firepower. But they stayed less accurate and now have zero presence of significant note in the charge/fight phase. 8th Tau are also paying premium points on the assumption that they have stronger firepower.

By the time the 8th Tau codex comes out I think Tau are going to need their play style reevaluated. Either they need to join the lofty heights of a BS 3+ army or their weapons need to be much more punishing (like railguns wounding vehicles/monsters on a +2 regardless of T or it needs to do something like 2D3 mortal wounds for its Damage).

I'm just waiting for the mass population to realize that Tau doesn't outshoot SM in 8e

Razor, Storms, Dreads... so cheap for how insanely good they are at shooting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Looking at the stats and point costs I'm becoming less convinced that Missile Broadsides are bad. I compared 2 of them to a unit of 4 Crisis suits with 2 MP each and the costs are comparable. The 2 Broadsides cost slightly more, but they have a better armor save and more weapons (don't forget those SMS!). So nearly double the firepower and a bit more durability at the cost of maneuverability. Of course, you'll probably sit still with the Crisis suits too, as they are too expensive to risk moving them forward once you pay for those Missiles. Now, I'm not saying MP Crisis are good (they probably are terrible), but I'm not as sure as I was that Missilesides are bad, either. Just camp them in cover and go to town, and maybe keep some drones nearby to jump in front of pesky lascannons...

And while we're on the subject of drones, I wonder if it is worth it to take Missile Drones for Broadsides. Yes, they're BS5+, but if a drone controller is nearby it gets better. They are cheaper than taking a MP on a Crisis suit and the same cost as a DS8 turret for Fire Warriors. Maybe let a couple of them run with a unit of Crisis Suits with Drone Controller and some gun drones to add a little heavier firepower. Of course, the downside is more available killpoints for the opponent, but that's kind of a given with any kind of drone support. Tau kind of auto-lose a Killpoint mission unless they can table their opponent.

You're not wrong that compared to Crisis Suits; HYMP is only slightly behind. The problem becomes when you compare it with Monat.
Altho, it's important to understand the difference between being FORCED to STAND STILL, and having the ability to move around. Even if a Crisis Suit isn't going to rush to the front, being able to move laterally, ignore terrain, escape/shoot from charges is absolutely massive.

HYMP+ATS 170 for 8 BS4 shots = 4 hits, 4.66 with ML (42.5 / 36.4)
Monat+ATS 156 for 6 BS2 shots = 5 hits, 5.83 with ML (31.2 / 26.7)


Missile Drones lack ATS, but let's see 40 for 4 BS5 hits = 1.33 hits, 1.55 with ML (30.0 / 25.7)
...
Which SOUNDS Amazing... but Monat without ATS is (25.8 / 22.11)

The Missile Drones could benefit from DC, sure... Making it 2 hits, 2.33 with ML (22.5 / 19.2)
but Listen to all the baggage we are being forced here...
Needing to take a Broadside and a DC... Well I guess you could make your Broadside the DC...
Which could work if you're doing Railside, since Railside doesn't really need their secondary system.

Okay then yea
Railside+DC+Missile Drones is viable.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Is anyone else finding that the Tau army concept of stronger but less accurate firepower and no assault units is not going to work for 8th edition?

Now that most weapons have been standardized as well as abilities (reroll, +1 to hit/wound..etc), Tau really don't have stronger firepower. But they stayed less accurate and now have zero presence of significant note in the charge/fight phase. 8th Tau are also paying premium points on the assumption that they have stronger firepower.

By the time the 8th Tau codex comes out I think Tau are going to need their play style reevaluated. Either they need to join the lofty heights of a BS 3+ army or their weapons need to be much more punishing (like railguns wounding vehicles/monsters on a +2 regardless of T or it needs to do something like 2D3 mortal wounds for its Damage).

While I agree Tau shooting took a dive in accuracy (IIRC, one playtester even said "Tau is the new Guard!"; well, if I wanted to play Guard, I'd play the bloody Guard!), I don't fear mele armies that much. They have to come to you.
Other shooting armies, though, are quite problematic. AdMech has quality accuracy AND damage to compete with us and even a similar propsition (fragile infantry, resistant monsters). AdMech is the new Tau, I'd say.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Looking at the stats and point costs I'm becoming less convinced that Missile Broadsides are bad. I compared 2 of them to a unit of 4 Crisis suits with 2 MP each and the costs are comparable. The 2 Broadsides cost slightly more, but they have a better armor save and more weapons (don't forget those SMS!). So nearly double the firepower and a bit more durability at the cost of maneuverability. Of course, you'll probably sit still with the Crisis suits too, as they are too expensive to risk moving them forward once you pay for those Missiles. Now, I'm not saying MP Crisis are good (they probably are terrible), but I'm not as sure as I was that Missilesides are bad, either. Just camp them in cover and go to town, and maybe keep some drones nearby to jump in front of pesky lascannons...

This is a 'points per unsaved wounds inflicted' comparison made by a fellow from ATT:
https://imgur.com/a/Vusl4
There, we can see the Broadside is much more expensive than a commander, for a similar number of wounds.

And this one is for 'wounds inflicted':
https://imgur.com/a/k31ho
In this one, a Broaside only manages to deal more damage than a commander with 4 MPs if they have 5 MLs on their target.

So, even if Broadsides surpass MP Crisis, MP Commanders still are a better deal than HYMP broadies.

 Vector Strike wrote:

While I agree Tau shooting took a dive in accuracy (IIRC, one playtester even said "Tau is the new Guard!"; well, if I wanted to play Guard, I'd play the bloody Guard!), I don't fear mele armies that much. They have to come to you.
Other shooting armies, though, are quite problematic. AdMech has quality accuracy AND damage to compete with us and even a similar propsition (fragile infantry, resistant monsters). AdMech is the new Tau, I'd say.

Ah funny, I came here by curiosity to read up a bit on the Tau tactics and read this, had my first game against Tau and won, it was tight but once I destroyed his main firepower (Ghostkeel and Broadside) and his support (two full teams of Pathfinders) there wasn't much he could to to me, I just grabbed the objectives save one because all his other dudes died (all XV-25 and Shadowsun). It was a 1000 pts game but I think that his list wasn't very good, it was like:

- 1 Ghostkeel without drones;
- Shadowsun with 4 Shield Drones;
- 2 4-man teams of XV-25, both with one Fusion Blaster;
- 10 Pathfinders on the floating Gunrig thing;
- 6-7 don't remember Pathfinders;
- 1 XV-88 Broadside with Railgun

The Ghostkeel and the Broadside both had the gear to allow shooting on deep-striking targets, which bothered me as it made me drop my Command Squad with 2 Meltas and 2 Plasma guns out of LoS of him, so I guess this gear is a must take for you guys. All these markerlights were decimating my army at first so I quickly understood I had to shut them down, so I did deepstrike some Infiltrators to shoot the small squad and sent my Taurox and some Scions do the rest in shooting and melee. On the end of the game he put Shadowsun in the back of my HQ and one shotted him, but he should've done that earlier. What advice would you have given him to have a list less dependent on the Ghostkeel and Broadsides ?

But I didn't came here to brag, in fact I'm interested in coming back to the Greater Good someday (without dropping my beloved AdMech), which was the first 40K army I had when I was young. I gazed a bit upon the Index and wondered so if the army I intend to do would work decently. My favourite units are the Railgun Broadside, the Hammerhead with Railgun, the XV-25 Stealth Suits, and the Fire Warriors. Now that I see you can have Breacher squads with nice firepower I was wondering if they could be played in Devilfishes to play a fast moving gun army. I don't want an army where I just sit down and shoot (and I don't play AdMech that way), because it's neither fun for me or my opponent to just don't move and throw dice. Would it be possible to build a list with those units ? I dislike the looks of the big Battlesuits, except the Ghostkeel. I don't want to buy Riptides or big stuff like that, I much prefer infantry or small Battlesuits like the XV-25 or the Crisis suits. How would you build an infantry-heavy army in terms of proportions ? 2:1 Breacher squads and Pulse Rifles squads ?

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Is anyone else finding that the Tau army concept of stronger but less accurate firepower and no assault units is not going to work for 8th edition?

Now that most weapons have been standardized as well as abilities (reroll, +1 to hit/wound..etc), Tau really don't have stronger firepower. But they stayed less accurate and now have zero presence of significant note in the charge/fight phase. 8th Tau are also paying premium points on the assumption that they have stronger firepower.

By the time the 8th Tau codex comes out I think Tau are going to need their play style reevaluated. Either they need to join the lofty heights of a BS 3+ army or their weapons need to be much more punishing (like railguns wounding vehicles/monsters on a +2 regardless of T or it needs to do something like 2D3 mortal wounds for its Damage).

Thats exactly what the list I start to see on most table is :

Supreme Command
3 Quad Fusion Commander
6 Tri-flamer Bodyguard
11 drones

1000 points exactly, add the exact same Supreme command for a 2k point list.

Triflamer suit answer to hordes and flyer and can move everyturn without penalty since they autohit.
Drones are decent Dakka
Commander dont need introduction.
Bodyguards are pure gold since your commander will basically be the last thing to ever die as the rule is very permissive.

 Aaranis wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

While I agree Tau shooting took a dive in accuracy (IIRC, one playtester even said "Tau is the new Guard!"; well, if I wanted to play Guard, I'd play the bloody Guard!), I don't fear mele armies that much. They have to come to you.
Other shooting armies, though, are quite problematic. AdMech has quality accuracy AND damage to compete with us and even a similar propsition (fragile infantry, resistant monsters). AdMech is the new Tau, I'd say.

Ah funny, I came here by curiosity to read up a bit on the Tau tactics and read this, had my first game against Tau and won, it was tight but once I destroyed his main firepower (Ghostkeel and Broadside) and his support (two full teams of Pathfinders) there wasn't much he could to to me, I just grabbed the objectives save one because all his other dudes died (all XV-25 and Shadowsun). It was a 1000 pts game but I think that his list wasn't very good, it was like:

- 1 Ghostkeel without drones;
- Shadowsun with 4 Shield Drones;
- 2 4-man teams of XV-25, both with one Fusion Blaster;
- 10 Pathfinders on the floating Gunrig thing;
- 6-7 don't remember Pathfinders;
- 1 XV-88 Broadside with Railgun

The Ghostkeel and the Broadside both had the gear to allow shooting on deep-striking targets, which bothered me as it made me drop my Command Squad with 2 Meltas and 2 Plasma guns out of LoS of him, so I guess this gear is a must take for you guys. All these markerlights were decimating my army at first so I quickly understood I had to shut them down, so I did deepstrike some Infiltrators to shoot the small squad and sent my Taurox and some Scions do the rest in shooting and melee. On the end of the game he put Shadowsun in the back of my HQ and one shotted him, but he should've done that earlier. What advice would you have given him to have a list less dependent on the Ghostkeel and Broadsides ?

But I didn't came here to brag, in fact I'm interested in coming back to the Greater Good someday (without dropping my beloved AdMech), which was the first 40K army I had when I was young. I gazed a bit upon the Index and wondered so if the army I intend to do would work decently. My favourite units are the Railgun Broadside, the Hammerhead with Railgun, the XV-25 Stealth Suits, and the Fire Warriors. Now that I see you can have Breacher squads with nice firepower I was wondering if they could be played in Devilfishes to play a fast moving gun army. I don't want an army where I just sit down and shoot (and I don't play AdMech that way), because it's neither fun for me or my opponent to just don't move and throw dice. Would it be possible to build a list with those units ? I dislike the looks of the big Battlesuits, except the Ghostkeel. I don't want to buy Riptides or big stuff like that, I much prefer infantry or small Battlesuits like the XV-25 or the Crisis suits. How would you build an infantry-heavy army in terms of proportions ? 2:1 Breacher squads and Pulse Rifles squads ?

The upgrade that allows us to shoot at Deep Strikers is called EWO. It's really powerful but really difficult to bring.
For starters it only affects enemies who Deep Strike within 12", so that's a lot of conditional already.
An enemy needs to bring Deep Strikers at all, and they need to be close range Deep Strikers.
It also costs 8 ponts, and on a lot of the things that can bring it; costs one of the Gun Slots.
Even when it doesn't cost a Gun Slot, it will still cost the Support Slot which could be used for other things that could improve our killing potential.

I hope the Pathfinders weren't shooting Markerlights + Assault Carbines. Since that is against the rules.

If you want to use Breachers, I recommend using the same Tidewall that your friend was using.
Then you don't even need to disembark to shoot their Pulse Shotguns.
Railsides and Railheads are solid choices. Longrails especially is absolutely insane.
Ghostkeel is a solid choice as well, but Riptide is pretty trash in 8e.
Stealth Suits are in a middling place at the moment, not spectacular, not garbage either. Some key usage like DC Carrier that nothing else in the army can compete with. Low cost for mediocre effectiveness...
Devilfish on the other hand, leans towards being pretty bad.
As far as my personal suggestion for an infantry heavy list, I would just use Cadre Fireblade HQ, Strike Teams with the Pulse Rifle, and a few Pathfinders with Accelerator Drones. That's 3 shots at 18" from the Strike Team.