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Well of course 3 special weapons guys that normally belong in a squad are gonna win out against a single suit, you didnt need to math hammer that particular scenario. The squad is quite good vs plague marines. 3 Crisis with 3x plasma manta striking will still ruin a squad of plague marines day.
Crisis Suit are basically 3 Special Weapons guys rolled into 1.
It's not even that the 2 additional guys are a tax, since 2 Markerlights is the optimal number to get exactly 1 success.
The Squad even provides access to a Grav Drone which is one of our best Drones.
Only performs marginally better (over 200 points worth) than a SINGLE squad of Railfinders.
Tho back to the original "conflicting statements", the rankings are not how a Weapon performs specifically against Death Guard or Plague Marines.
The weapon rankings are open and attempt to take as many factors as possible. Plasma Rifles being good against Plague Marines specifically isn't enough of a reason to make them a higher Tier.
Would you consider taking Darkstrider with Pathfinders? He is a cheap 45 points and allows them to wound stuff much easier. So for example their ion rifles could wound a nercon pylon on overcharge shots with 3+ wounds. Or 50/50 with uncharged. He could also bring marines down to str 3 for those easy 2+ wounds and all sorts of tricks. Finally he lets them do the while fly thing just in case and provides a fairly reliable ML hit if you just need a reroll 1 somewhere.
Gamgee wrote: Would you consider taking Darkstrider with Pathfinders? He is a cheap 45 points and allows them to wound stuff much easier. So for example their ion rifles could wound a nercon pylon on overcharge shots with 3+ wounds. Or 50/50 with uncharged. He could also bring marines down to str 3 for those easy 2+ wounds and all sorts of tricks. Finally he lets them do the while fly thing just in case and provides a fairly reliable ML hit if you just need a reroll 1 somewhere.
Her ability to allow Infantry to Fall Back and Shoot is irrelevant on everything but Breachers. Our Infantry aren't strong enough to be of significant damage output.
You may say "But look at how strong you just proved those Pathfinders are", but if any enemy gets into melee with them there is a fair chance they are already dead.
Her ability to reduce Toughness is another one that sounds amazing, but you would get more output from simply just having more models attempting the same thing.
Perhaps even using a different model for a problematic source.
Remember, our Infantry is quite cheap.
3 Ion Rifles is only 36 points
3 Rail Rifles is only 81 points
Spending 45 points to give them an additional 1d6 chance of success is far too minor
Rail 15 - (1 * 3 * 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 6/6) + (1 * 3 * 2 * 1/2 * 1/6) = 2.5
DS Rail 15 - (1 * 3 * 2 * 1/2 * 5/6 * 6/6) + (1 * 3 * 2 * 1/2 * 1/6) = 3
Just bringing even 1 more Rail Rifle in a new Squad would cost 59 points and provide higher damage
4 Rail 15 - (1 * 4 * 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 6/6) + (1 * 3 * 2 * 1/2 * 1/6) = 3.16
and more Markerlights, and access to another Grav Drone.
To Recap
Full Breacher Squad + Darkstrider = Solid
Darkstrider supporting anything else? = Pretty weak
Okay thanks for the breakdown, but I have to use him since I have no other commanders for my army lol. I need a second commander asap. I do have shadowsun, but eh I want to keep my HQ's as cheap as possible if I can't get commanders.
One thing you got wrong. Darkstrider is a he. lol.
Well of course 3 special weapons guys that normally belong in a squad are gonna win out against a single suit, you didnt need to math hammer that particular scenario. The squad is quite good vs plague marines. 3 Crisis with 3x plasma manta striking will still ruin a squad of plague marines day.
Crisis Suit are basically 3 Special Weapons guys rolled into 1.
It's not even that the 2 additional guys are a tax, since 2 Markerlights is the optimal number to get exactly 1 success.
The Squad even provides access to a Grav Drone which is one of our best Drones.
Only performs marginally better (over 200 points worth) than a SINGLE squad of Railfinders.
Tho back to the original "conflicting statements", the rankings are not how a Weapon performs specifically against Death Guard or Plague Marines.
The weapon rankings are open and attempt to take as many factors as possible. Plasma Rifles being good against Plague Marines specifically isn't enough of a reason to make them a higher Tier.
What about markerlight support from just 1 and 5? Plasma are great at pretty much anything T6 and lower, although not as many shots as a burst cannon for horde. Another good squad to mathematically compare would be a full 3 man Crisis team with 2 plasma and a burst cannon each. A solid good all around anti infantry loadout.
Vector Strike wrote: I think I'd use TX-42 Piranhas instead of Pathfinders for Rail Rifles. A bit more expensive, but much more resilient and fast. And no morale problems!
I rather keep Crisis Suits be the fast moving Assault Suit
I think Stealth Suits would be more suited for Ion or Rail Rifles.
What I really want to see is Crisis Bodyguards to be completely remade.
Renamed Anchor Suits (or some other name)
6" T6, 4W 3+ Save
FTGG, BKR, Fly
Sworn Protector
Each Anchor Suit comes equipped with an SMS and Shield Generator
Any Anchor Suit may replace their SMS with an Ion Rifle or a Rail Rifle.
Any Anchor Suit may take a single item for the Support Systems List.
Any Anchor Suit may take an additional SMS, Ion Rifle, or Rail Rifle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 00:02:10
Sure they would, if priced accordingly. Only reason I take Plasma is the devastating combo of having high ap on the cheap compared to other weapons available.
Sure they would, if priced accordingly. Only reason I take Plasma is the devastating combo of having high ap on the cheap compared to other weapons available.
Same here. Plasma is a cheap way for Tau to kill Space Marines efficiently. I would give my suits either 3 plasma each or 2 plasma and Multitracker for rerolling 1's without needing markerlights.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 21 | Current main painting project: Warhammer 40k Leviathan set
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Sure they would, if priced accordingly. Only reason I take Plasma is the devastating combo of having high ap on the cheap compared to other weapons available.
Same here. Plasma is a cheap way for Tau to kill Space Marines efficiently. I would give my suits either 3 plasma each or 2 plasma and Multitracker for rerolling 1's without needing markerlights.
This is a 7e Mindset of when Crisis Suits were cheap.
I think the current 22 point Rail Rifle would allow for Plasma Rifles to be viable for sheer cost. Let's see...
Sure they would, if priced accordingly. Only reason I take Plasma is the devastating combo of having high ap on the cheap compared to other weapons available.
Same here. Plasma is a cheap way for Tau to kill Space Marines efficiently. I would give my suits either 3 plasma each or 2 plasma and Multitracker for rerolling 1's without needing markerlights.
This is a 7e Mindset of when Crisis Suits were cheap.
I think the current 22 point Rail Rifle would allow for Plasma Rifles to be viable for sheer cost. Let's see...
Crusaderobr wrote: Cost is pretty good actually, you get 3 wounds 5 toughness, fly, what more do you want in a Battlesuit squad?
Probably... a 6 point cost reduction.
Don't think of Crisis Suits as an Infantry Unit, since they aren't.
Think of them as a Light Tank.
3 Wounds is insanely low for a Light Tank.
Cost is pretty good actually, you get 3 wounds 5 toughness, fly, what more do you want in a Battlesuit squad?
Compare them with Ravenwing Black Knights or Attack Bikes or whatever else. They do not stack up favorably. Taking 3 special weapons on one dude is nice, but they're still overcosted by about 10 pts.
As for the proposed rule changes, I'm on board. Those seem much more appropriate and useful. Ditto the seeker changes and how they interact with markers.
FW xeno FAQ is up. Y'varhs and R'varna shield drones got a 5+ FNP. R'myr got 3++ in melee now. Blacklight markers get stable platform. Fixed points on the hammerheads.
I would have liked something on when the y'varha novas its weapons. I've been playing it as you get one nova'd to avoid arguments.
Forest hunter sept ~3500 guardians of the covenant 4th company ~ 6000
Warrior based hive fleet
Looks like I've been on a right track considering dropping Fire warriors entirely and running pathfinders instead, along with the usual drones and commanders.
Lots of corrections on everyone's stuff, ours included. R'alai's Blacklight Marker Drones got their stable platform (pretty sure they were missing that before?). Photon Casters had the wording fixed. Tiger Shark got the Titan Killer special rule to fire Macro weapons after moving. FW Hammerheads and Blacklight Marker Drones got their points corrected. Pretty much expected stuff.
There is something quite interesting however. The R'varna and Y'vahra shield drones and shielded missile drones got a new ability. "In addition, roll a D6 each time a drone with this ability loses a wound; on a 5+ that Drone does not lose a wound." Shield Drones got a 5+ FnP base now. They're actually usable again with Savior Protocols!
Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)
Lots of corrections on everyone's stuff, ours included. R'alai's Blacklight Marker Drones got their stable platform (pretty sure they were missing that before?). Photon Casters had the wording fixed. Tiger Shark got the Titan Killer special rule to fire Macro weapons after moving. FW Hammerheads and Blacklight Marker Drones got their points corrected. Pretty much expected stuff.
There is something quite interesting however. The R'varna and Y'vahra shield drones and shielded missile drones got a new ability. "In addition, roll a D6 each time a drone with this ability loses a wound; on a 5+ that Drone does not lose a wound." Shield Drones got a 5+ FnP base now. They're actually usable again with Savior Protocols!
lets hope GW see this and reissue the FAQ to include that for all shield drones.
"I may fight for the empire, but I stand apart from it"-Commander Farsight
Whay do you guys think about conceiving of sniper drones not as dedicated sniper units, but as very long range, accurate gun drones that can fulfill a supplementary sniper roll?
Really, their advantages over ratlings, rangers, and so forth (which they are actually comparable to in terms of damage on a model by model basis within 24") are their mobility, range, and ability to fire on the move. Maybe we should be looking at them from this angle rather than the "can I zap a character in one turn?" angle.
Lots of corrections on everyone's stuff, ours included. R'alai's Blacklight Marker Drones got their stable platform (pretty sure they were missing that before?). Photon Casters had the wording fixed. Tiger Shark got the Titan Killer special rule to fire Macro weapons after moving. FW Hammerheads and Blacklight Marker Drones got their points corrected. Pretty much expected stuff.
There is something quite interesting however. The R'varna and Y'vahra shield drones and shielded missile drones got a new ability. "In addition, roll a D6 each time a drone with this ability loses a wound; on a 5+ that Drone does not lose a wound." Shield Drones got a 5+ FnP base now. They're actually usable again with Savior Protocols!
FNP doesn't work against mortal wounds like Savior Protocols unless it defines mortal wounds like stimpacks as wounds and mortal wounds are not the same thing. At least that's how I understand it. As far as I can see those Shield drones only FNP basic wounds as they are missing the key word that stimpacks have.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 18:00:49
Lots of corrections on everyone's stuff, ours included. R'alai's Blacklight Marker Drones got their stable platform (pretty sure they were missing that before?). Photon Casters had the wording fixed. Tiger Shark got the Titan Killer special rule to fire Macro weapons after moving. FW Hammerheads and Blacklight Marker Drones got their points corrected. Pretty much expected stuff.
There is something quite interesting however. The R'varna and Y'vahra shield drones and shielded missile drones got a new ability. "In addition, roll a D6 each time a drone with this ability loses a wound; on a 5+ that Drone does not lose a wound." Shield Drones got a 5+ FnP base now. They're actually usable again with Savior Protocols!
FNP doesn't work against mortal wounds like Savior Protocols unless it defines mortal wounds like stimpacks as wounds and mortal wounds are not the same thing. At least that's how I understand it. As far as I can see those Shield drones only FNP basic wounds as they are missing the key word that stimpacks have.
Already been FAQd, All FNP works on Mortal Wounds.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alcibiades wrote: Whay do you guys think about conceiving of sniper drones not as dedicated sniper units, but as very long range, accurate gun drones that can fulfill a supplementary sniper roll?
Really, their advantages over ratlings, rangers, and so forth (which they are actually comparable to in terms of damage on a model by model basis within 24") are their mobility, range, and ability to fire on the move. Maybe we should be looking at them from this angle rather than the "can I zap a character in one turn?" angle.
?
I think 2 shots for 18 points at 24" S5 AP0 is worse than basic Fire Warriors who do it at 30" for 16 points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 18:10:45
Looks like I've been on a right track considering dropping Fire warriors entirely and running pathfinders instead, along with the usual drones and commanders.
But how did Orks and Tau take top two when they're theworst armies?
As for the list, it looks good but I disagree about the total optimization. Pathfinders are squishy, the commanders don't have adequate screening units and I don't see any Y'Vahras....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 18:25:23
Looks like I've been on a right track considering dropping Fire warriors entirely and running pathfinders instead, along with the usual drones and commanders.
But how did Orks and Tau take top two when they're theworst armies?
As for the list, it looks good but I disagree about the total optimization. Pathfinders are squishy, the commanders don't have adequate screening units and I don't see any Y'Vahras....
Y'vahra at 1650 points is a huge points sink. Analyzing the list would also be easier if we knew the missions used, but I haven't had the time yet to find those.
Adequate screening units is matter of choice. If he felt he had enough then he probably had. He bought drones for all his infantry too remember. Only one drone can keep the commander untargetable.
Pathfinders are squishy but he probably had 2 squads of them in the Devilfish. We also have to keep in mind that this guy is an excellent player. I would love to see his thoughts and maybe tournament report.
/ BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)
849 points/ 15 SWC 
