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Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.
   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





 Talamare wrote:
 Ishotfirst wrote:

Additional note, the space marines have a 12 shot gatling gun rhino attachment S6 -1AP. It will become more common place in future game once people catch on.

Strike teams, though I still love the range of the gun. A space marine in cover is a pain to kill. Yes we would on 3's but they get a 2+save. This brings me to a point that was made elsewhere by others but pathfinders with optional guns are the way to go for me in the future. I say this because they can take a grab-drone and when the squad is in a deep cover like trees or a crater it is now a -4in to the charge distance for the unit charging. With the additional drones to aid in the cover the Grav-drone it brings the cost up but they are not as chargeable


No it doesn't
At best Rhino can take RF4 Bolters

Razorback on the other hand is the one with that gun, and Razorback spam is OP as hell! It's a Tournament level Build.

I've been advocating the usage of Pathfinders with Ion Rifles for a while now. Strike Teams are basically useless vs Marines.
2+ Armor vs 4+ Armor is massive!
Edit
4+ Armor 2x your EHP
2+ Armor 6x your EHP

Not to mention the fact that Pathfinders will have d3 shots, wound on 2+, and can shoot at Tanks.


Checked he list and yes they were razorbacks. The game was a mockup for the upcoming tournament he is going into so yes a lot of noise was brought. But knowing my opponent makes me believe he would have brought them anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Fueli wrote:
Wakshaani wrote:
Now I'm wondering how viable Crisis suits are with an ATS and no other weapons, used as a mobile melee unit.

Because I'm a madman.


They're not going to hit a shed even if they were inside of it. Better to have some weapons there.


I just played a game thinking my T'au suits could do something to that effect. It's a bad idea.... really bad math hammer aside. Be mobile and shooting things putting something in the way to prevent a worse charge.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 13:24:35


Shoot them.
Shoot them some more.
Then ask the survivors to join the Greater Good.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 doc1234 wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol


Just had a game vs chaos where my fusion commander with 3 fusions and 1 shield gen dropped behind a heldrake. Failed to wound with a shot and he made 2 5+ inv saves. He then caused 2 wounds in the shooting phase, and then I failed 5 out of 7 4+ inv saves lol. This got me thinking though, it seems fusion blasters can be ineffective vs targets with an inv save, you need alot of them to get through bad dice and inv saves from your opponent. At the moment I am trying a list using a few Crisis squads with ATS and 2 missile pods and seeing how that goes with some Coldstar Commanders. The range and flexibility will certainly help I think over fusion blasters.
   
Made in us
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 Crusaderobr wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol


Just had a game vs chaos where my fusion commander with 3 fusions and 1 shield gen dropped behind a heldrake. Failed to wound with a shot and he made 2 5+ inv saves. He then caused 2 wounds in the shooting phase, and then I failed 5 out of 7 4+ inv saves lol. This got me thinking though, it seems fusion blasters can be ineffective vs targets with an inv save, you need alot of them to get through bad dice and inv saves from your opponent. At the moment I am trying a list using a few Crisis squads with ATS and 2 missile pods and seeing how that goes with some Coldstar Commanders. The range and flexibility will certainly help I think over fusion blasters.


3 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 3.88 damage

I think the problem is you heavily overestimated your firepower
even if you went 4 FBs (4 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 5.18) you wasn't really close.

Tho you're not wrong in saying that our Fire Power across the board is severely lacking.


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Talamare wrote:
 Crusaderobr wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol


Just had a game vs chaos where my fusion commander with 3 fusions and 1 shield gen dropped behind a heldrake. Failed to wound with a shot and he made 2 5+ inv saves. He then caused 2 wounds in the shooting phase, and then I failed 5 out of 7 4+ inv saves lol. This got me thinking though, it seems fusion blasters can be ineffective vs targets with an inv save, you need alot of them to get through bad dice and inv saves from your opponent. At the moment I am trying a list using a few Crisis squads with ATS and 2 missile pods and seeing how that goes with some Coldstar Commanders. The range and flexibility will certainly help I think over fusion blasters.


3 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 3.88 damage

I think the problem is you heavily overestimated your firepower
even if you went 4 FBs (4 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 5.18) you wasn't really close.

Tho you're not wrong in saying that our Fire Power across the board is severely lacking.


Plasma, CIB's, or Missile Pods seem the way to go this edition imo, fusion just doesnt pack enough shots, burst cannons are meh, missile pods have the range, CIB's have the volume of shots, Plasma is cheap vs high armor. What else can we do vs Land Raiders and high T targets with inv saves? I suppose a Stormsurge packs the firepower, but is it worth the points? Would also have to invest in shield drones for it to stay alive on the board.
   
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






It's down to the D6 Damage rolls. Even with 4 FB's all hitting non 2's, you could still roll cold and do a nice big 4 damage. Woo.

FB (and similar melta weapons) could have done with D3+1, or something similar. Even if they capped off the upper limit of the damage, I feel like it'd be better than being at the mercy of only doing 1 damage with your giant weaponized welding torch.

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 Crusaderobr wrote:
This got me thinking though, it seems fusion blasters can be ineffective vs targets with an inv save, you need alot of them to get through bad dice and inv saves from your opponent.


Look, there's nothing that can save you from bad/lucky dice rolls. The FC is definitely a high risk/high reward platform, and as you point out, using it against something with high invulnerable saves is probably a poor decision. A missile/ATS Commander is a very safe option because he'll never be the nearest enemy unit, but he'll never one shot a tank either.

   
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Water-Caste Negotiator




 doc1234 wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol


Ghostkeel could also be a distraction fex kind of unit. it's got d3+2 fusion shots, a lot of wounds, penalty to hit it, etc. It takes some effort to kill and it's a tough unit to ignore.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






Canada

 doc1234 wrote:
It's down to the D6 Damage rolls. Even with 4 FB's all hitting non 2's, you could still roll cold and do a nice big 4 damage. Woo.

FB (and similar melta weapons) could have done with D3+1, or something similar. Even if they capped off the upper limit of the damage, I feel like it'd be better than being at the mercy of only doing 1 damage with your giant weaponized welding torch.


I disagree. You really want something other than a FB shooting at tanks and Monsters? Sure, the potential for unlucky rolls is always there, but that's the reality of playing a dice game. Quad or Triple Fusion is absolutely the way to go against high toughness, multi wound models. Learn to love the command point reroll on those wounds and you'll go far.

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 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
It's down to the D6 Damage rolls. Even with 4 FB's all hitting non 2's, you could still roll cold and do a nice big 4 damage. Woo.

FB (and similar melta weapons) could have done with D3+1, or something similar. Even if they capped off the upper limit of the damage, I feel like it'd be better than being at the mercy of only doing 1 damage with your giant weaponized welding torch.


I disagree. You really want something other than a FB shooting at tanks and Monsters? Sure, the potential for unlucky rolls is always there, but that's the reality of playing a dice game. Quad or Triple Fusion is absolutely the way to go against high toughness, multi wound models. Learn to love the command point reroll on those wounds and you'll go far.


You have a point I suppose. Honestly, for me the biggest problem currently is remembering I can use the CP for rerolls. Keep getting distracted by all those shiny other Strat gimmicks

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

 Crusaderobr wrote:
 Talamare wrote:
 Crusaderobr wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol


Just had a game vs chaos where my fusion commander with 3 fusions and 1 shield gen dropped behind a heldrake. Failed to wound with a shot and he made 2 5+ inv saves. He then caused 2 wounds in the shooting phase, and then I failed 5 out of 7 4+ inv saves lol. This got me thinking though, it seems fusion blasters can be ineffective vs targets with an inv save, you need alot of them to get through bad dice and inv saves from your opponent. At the moment I am trying a list using a few Crisis squads with ATS and 2 missile pods and seeing how that goes with some Coldstar Commanders. The range and flexibility will certainly help I think over fusion blasters.


3 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 3.88 damage

I think the problem is you heavily overestimated your firepower
even if you went 4 FBs (4 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 5.18) you wasn't really close.

Tho you're not wrong in saying that our Fire Power across the board is severely lacking.


Plasma, CIB's, or Missile Pods seem the way to go this edition imo, fusion just doesnt pack enough shots, burst cannons are meh, missile pods have the range, CIB's have the volume of shots, Plasma is cheap vs high armor. What else can we do vs Land Raiders and high T targets with inv saves? I suppose a Stormsurge packs the firepower, but is it worth the points? Would also have to invest in shield drones for it to stay alive on the board.
Burst cannons vs. CIB compared to toughness 4?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Razerous wrote:
 Crusaderobr wrote:
 Talamare wrote:
 Crusaderobr wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol


Just had a game vs chaos where my fusion commander with 3 fusions and 1 shield gen dropped behind a heldrake. Failed to wound with a shot and he made 2 5+ inv saves. He then caused 2 wounds in the shooting phase, and then I failed 5 out of 7 4+ inv saves lol. This got me thinking though, it seems fusion blasters can be ineffective vs targets with an inv save, you need alot of them to get through bad dice and inv saves from your opponent. At the moment I am trying a list using a few Crisis squads with ATS and 2 missile pods and seeing how that goes with some Coldstar Commanders. The range and flexibility will certainly help I think over fusion blasters.


3 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 3.88 damage

I think the problem is you heavily overestimated your firepower
even if you went 4 FBs (4 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 5.18) you wasn't really close.

Tho you're not wrong in saying that our Fire Power across the board is severely lacking.


Plasma, CIB's, or Missile Pods seem the way to go this edition imo, fusion just doesnt pack enough shots, burst cannons are meh, missile pods have the range, CIB's have the volume of shots, Plasma is cheap vs high armor. What else can we do vs Land Raiders and high T targets with inv saves? I suppose a Stormsurge packs the firepower, but is it worth the points? Would also have to invest in shield drones for it to stay alive on the board.
Burst cannons vs. CIB compared to toughness 4?


Dunno about the math, but I'd assume the CIBs win out depending on the save. BC don't seem to bring a lot more than you'd get just bringing more strike squads, which does jack all against high saves and cover.

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think the general gestalt, supported by numbers, is that burst cannons are a terrible option on everything. As you alluded to, we have plenty of S5 sources, including the ubiquitous 8 freaking point Gun Drone. Use your suit hard points for something else.
   
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doc1234 wrote:Dunno about the math, but I'd assume the CIBs win out depending on the save. BC don't seem to bring a lot more than you'd get just bringing more strike squads, which does jack all against high saves and cover.


Going up against T4 3+ save MEQs a 3 Crisis Suit Team (each suit with 3 of the same weapon) mathhammers out like this:


In Crisis teams CIBs will outperform BCs in raw damage output every time against every target. The only saving grace of the BC is it's 8 points cheaper than a CIB, which is 72 points for a 3 man Crisis team. I personally would rather find the extra points for CIBs myself.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/08/15 06:23:56


 
   
Made in us
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BC is better vs Marines in the open
Definitely better vs lighter targets

CIB still works against Marines in Cover
and are more versatile in that they can shoot at Tanks

BC also loses face when you compare it to other sources of S5 guns, in which our army has a TON of.


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
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 Haechi wrote:
I'm gonna play 2 broadsides with HRR and velocity tracker, with a pocket Ethereal with them. It's 4 fusion shots with 60" range and 3+ reroll 1 against flyers. I think it can work.

It would be amazing anti flyer - thats for sure. Most flyers are t7 too so the str8 is no problem. This is actually a really good idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
cmspano wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
 Haechi wrote:
 doc1234 wrote:
Am considering a crisis team with double fusions and shield each as a distraction fex/ hold it in reserve and react to heavy armour with it. Anyone else tried the load out?


I think you'd be better off using the slot for a 3rd weapon or a system, and give them Shield drones.


So tripfusion team is the way to go then. Well I had been meaning to get some more shield drones lol


Ghostkeel could also be a distraction fex kind of unit. it's got d3+2 fusion shots, a lot of wounds, penalty to hit it, etc. It takes some effort to kill and it's a tough unit to ignore.

Needs target locks and marker light support - then it's not too bad for the cost.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/15 12:48:55


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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UK

What is a good cost-per-point, assuming BS4+ and ignoring the platform.

General terms, I'm curious as to the feedback and how that will compare to other armies

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

The Tau Empire is all about units assisting units and units making other units better.

Markerlights, Shield Drones, enough support characters to choke a horse and platforms to defend other firing platforms... It goes on and on.

I think that calculations in a vacuum are okay but the REAL comparisons need to be made WITH all that support in mind and then compared to its cost. Because what is POSSIBLE with our weaponry is the thing. Not what it does unsupported and so on.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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 Jancoran wrote:
The Tau Empire is all about units assisting units and units making other units better.

Markerlights, Shield Drones, enough support characters to choke a horse and platforms to defend other firing platforms... It goes on and on.

I think that calculations in a vacuum are okay but the REAL comparisons need to be made WITH all that support in mind and then compared to its cost. Because what is POSSIBLE with our weaponry is the thing. Not what it does unsupported and so on.


Once you have all those "Possible" covered by cost leaves little in the way of punch.

Well what makes the possible happen is now over costed suit. The overacting to the broke Tide was all fine and dandy but they took a few extra swing with the nerf bat.. Drones can only take so much but are good for taking that multi wound shot. Then add the fact the at our guns use to make us stand out because they didn't melt our face when we shot them. Now everyone gets this and easier access to them. Where is my strike teams plasma pistols? We were moble special of JSJ and that's what kept us from H-2-H death longer. Now turn 1 H-2-H happens far more and should be expected especially when white-scars and Orc jet packs are involved. This being said we are no faster unit wise to adjust for the loss, moving away 8in and failure to kill the thing right in front of you means charge death. Yes our suits (the ones that live) can leave and still shoot but the things that buff them are SoL because they usually don't fly. Possible for us has been min-maxing things that fluff wise we shouldn't and it's upsetting.

I have ranted and poorly so with my phone of all things. My frustration is with the powers that be and the sweeping decisions made about the T'au. I have actually hit a point where I won't play towards the T'au fluff unless it's for fun and an incredibly small points game.

Shoot them.
Shoot them some more.
Then ask the survivors to join the Greater Good.  
   
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 Jancoran wrote:
The Tau Empire is all about units assisting units and units making other units better.

Markerlights, Shield Drones, enough support characters to choke a horse and platforms to defend other firing platforms... It goes on and on.

I think that calculations in a vacuum are okay but the REAL comparisons need to be made WITH all that support in mind and then compared to its cost. Because what is POSSIBLE with our weaponry is the thing. Not what it does unsupported and so on.


The problem is that a lot of the units are not inherently worth buffing by spending even more points to make a worthless unit slightly less worthless; if for example they were units with good guns, gak accuracy, survivability and not too expensive they would be worth buffing but as it is most of the units are not worth it.

The most extreme example which I am sure has been talked to death is the riptide, particularly with the ion accelerator, where you are paying ~350 points for ~1 (~3.5 nova charged) damage to a rhino a turn; full markerlight support improves most stuff by around 50%, so a fully buffed riptide will be doing up to 5 damage a turn to a rhino for ~430 points or you could get a 4xFB commander for ~160 points that needs 16 points of markerlights to do ~9 damage. The points to providing markerlights can get spread around between units but you must spend at least 80 points per unit marked, more if you want to do that turn after turn of casualties. Okay so the commander wins out on firepower but the riptide wins out on survivability right? Yes, but you could just surround the commander with 30 drones to meet the cost of fielding the riptide and beat it in the survivability department as well. The riptide wins out in having range, but the commander can deep strike so that kinda evens out to a degree.

Obviously there are less extreme examples other than what is probably one of the worst Tau units, but it is a good architype of the problem nearly every unit suffers from. Simply put, why get X when I could just get a commander and a bunch of drones? It is worth noting that the Tau infantry are good overall, but that does not make a good army on it own.
   
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Is the default Ta'unar shoulder weapons still the best or did the giant Railgun or Missiles become better?

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Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

Noctem wrote:
Is the default Ta'unar shoulder weapons still the best or did the giant Railgun or Missiles become better?


It is the better option.
The missile is better than it was back in 7th, while the Rail... you cna take 2 Tigersharks AX-1-0 instead (getting 4 of those)

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
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Los Angeles, CA

Ah I see. I have 1 Tigershark AX-1-0!

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Olympia, WA

Rockfish wrote:


The problem is that a lot of the units are not inherently worth buffing by spending even more points to make a worthless unit slightly less worthless;



I think this leads to some false hyperbole though. Ultimately the army functions this way and so it is better to figure out how to make things work than it is to complain that you must.
The Stormsurge is a prime example. Its not nearly as good as it used to be. I think we can agree on that? Maybe? Well it has seemed that way to me. Yet with support it is more than scary and I haven't had a single game where I couldn't keep it productive even after it degrades thanks to the many buffs of the army making it a better performer than it appears to be on paper for its price. I never suggested the Stormsurge sucks, but I can tell using it that it is not what it used to be and is much more specialized in its role now (its good at its role...just more specialized).

The same thing for Broadsides. It literally hurts my fellings to pay that many points for them but on the other hand IN CONTEXT of the army they perform much better than they look like they would for the cost. Here again, not a trash unit but a little scary on points now and ultimately easy to underestimate at first unless you count in in the context of its support.
Stiongwings are fantastic now. One player locally has made superb use of them and I own 27 myself. I have always liked them but now they are really good at their job. Here again, easy to underestimate when you don't look at it in totality.

I play so many armies that Ive probably gotten to taste a lot more of them in the 8th Edition than some and I can tell that there are no truly horrendous units like there was before and I'm finding all kinds of units that have new life in 8th. I think the wise T'au Empire general will get back in the laboratory and start experimenting. There is a lot ot work with in our codex and much of it is in where you deploy it and when. But I have used a ton of the T'au units (all of them really) and right down to Kroot Hounds, I've been really happy with my chances in every game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/19 19:17:50


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Jan your advice is terrible. In my meta only commander spam lists work. I have every other Tau model at this point and it's been born out in the data that the Tau are near toothless outside of commander spam. You have to be playing in the worlds softest meta or something.

Considering we know for a fact the Tau are being looked into from frontlinegaming (Riptide in particular) I have to dismiss your advice as laughable. Your not saying anything good Tau players haven't been trying since 8th edition Tau leaks. If even GW and Reece from frontline know they are crap your being pretty delusional. If it wasn't for how obviously bad Tau are posts like yours would be terribly unhelpful in balancing the Tau.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/19 19:43:18


 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





I am gonna be honest in that I am casual and mostly take units cause they are nifty rather then effectiveness, but at some point you have to acknowledge aggregate results as opposed to how individual games. Units like broadsides can have games where they are good, a few double hits with good damage makes them look good but in my experience even when buffed and even ignored for most of the game broadsides simply do not have reliable results, they often simply fail to make back their points over the course of a game.

I also think that bringing up the stormsurge as an example is a bit funny as it is one of the more viable units, not top tier or anything but viable. I would expect the reason why no one talks about the stormsurge is simply lack of ownership combined with the stigma against LoW.

I really don't want to argue any of this stuff as there is no point getting too worked up over a hobby that is supposed to be fun, but it is frustrating that most of the Tau stuff is in a position which people even feel the need to argue viability to such an extent. Surely it is reasonable to expect balanced performance at least within an army, particularly with one like the Tau where the range of possible load outs allows for direct comparison of units using the exact same weapons. I do feel that GW is responding appropriately with the codexs released so far, but it is gonna be a long wait for some factions. I personally do not want to go and buy a bunch of units to be viable now when the units to spam is goofy stuff like commanders, which we already know that they are gonna be nerfed in a FAQ.
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




Dortmund, Germany

Hello,

i just played a game with a friend. We are both new players.
I play Daemons, he plays Tau. While playing, a few questions concerning his Tau force occured.

1.
May units be set up on a Tidewall Shieldline (Deployment)?

2.
Can the units "embarked" on the Shieldline be attacked or does the line have to be attacked first (in shooting pahse and cc)

3.
Can units on a shieldline and other friendly units (that are somewhere else), shoot at a unit that is in CC with the shieldline?

4.
Can a Missle Pod be deployed on the Shieldline, when there are already 10 models "embarked"?
If not, where can it be deployed?

5.
How long does a Missle Pod last? When is it removed?

6.
When a unit has been attacked by two different units in CC, can it hit back both or has it to split attacks between those units (assuming the unit hitting back has only 1 weapon: friewarrior)

Thank you!

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/08/19 22:27:34


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Jan your advice is terrible. In my meta only commander spam lists work. I have every other Tau model at this point and it's been born out in the data that the Tau are near toothless outside of commander spam. You have to be playing in the worlds softest meta or something.
It's apparently a meta that has historically supported Pathfinders as a strong offensive unit, if that tells you anything.

I'm with you on the Commander spam meta. I've had some reasonable success with a few of our more viable units (Y'Vahras, Fire Warriors, flamer suits, etc.), but I can't say that I've run up against any of the current tournament standards like dedicated conscript spam of massed Stormravens. I'm willing to bet I'd stand a chance against them without strict Commander spam, but it's still a very 7th Tyranids type book so far. There aren't many units I'd even consider using. Here's hoping October is kind to us.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 DortmundOutpost wrote:
Hello,

i just played a game with a friend. We are both new players.
I play Daemons, he plays Tau. While playing, a few questions concerning his Tau force occured.


1. May units be set up on a Tidewall Shieldline (Deployment)?
No. It is a fortification with a transport capacity. See the embarked models rules.
BrB page 183

2. Can the units "embarked" on the Shieldline be attacked or does the line have to be attacked first (in shooting pahse and cc)
Models embarked are not actually placed on the battlefield and thus cannot be attacked. Models embarked on the Shieldline use the 'open-topped' shooting rules in the Shieldline Abilities section.
BrB page 183, Index Xenos 2 page 76


3. Can units on a shieldline and other friendly units (that are somewhere else), shoot at a unit that is in CC with the shieldline?
No and Yes. If there are enemy units within 1 inch of the Shieldline the models embarked on the Shieldline cannot shoot except with pistols. Other friendly units can shoot the attacking models though.
Index Xenos 2 page 77: Abilities section > Fortification & Open Topped

4. Can a Missle Pod be deployed on the Shieldline, when there are already 10 models "embarked"? If not, where can it be deployed?
I assume you mean the Tactical Support Turret. No. The Strike Team models are not placed on the battlefield thus cannot fulfill the requirements to deploy the turret. Rules as of now make this fortification a fancy transport. That begs the question.... can an already 10 model strong unit be embarked on the Shieldline if it includes a turret that would make it 11 models?
Index Xenos 2 pages 57 and 76.

5. How long does a Missle Pod last? When is it removed?
There is no duration limit. It is stationary once deployed and removed when a model from the unit moves out of coherency with it.
Index Xenos 2 page 57

6. When a unit has been attacked by two different units in CC, can it hit back both or has it to split attacks between those units (assuming the unit hitting back has only 1 weapon: friewarrior)
Split the attacks.
BrB page 182: section 3 Choose Targets

7-Zark-7
   
 
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