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So I had a chance to play a ton of 2000 point ITC games last weekend. I went into these games with a theory that enough command points could offset some of the Tau Army short comings. As such, I ran Brigade lists so I could start with 12 command points. Some slots I simply threw in the cheapest choices to fulfill requirements, just to see a lot of command points at work. Here was my main list:

HQ-

Commander 4 x Fusion 2 X Drones

Commander 4 x Fusion 2 X Drones

Commander 4 x Fusion 2 X Drones

Troops -

Kroot X 10

Kroot X 10

Kroot X 11

Strike Team x 10 including Shas

Strike Team x 12 including Shas

Strike Team x 5 including Shas

Elite -

Firesight Marksman

Firesight Marksman

Krootox Rider

Fast-

Pathfinders X 4 including Shas w/ Pulse Accelerator Drone

Vespid Stingwings X 5 including Strain Leader

Y'vahra w/ ATS and TL

Heavy-

Sniper Drones X 3

Sniper Drones X 3

Hammerhead with Railgun and drones

Flyer-

Sunshark Bomber

1996 points

My main opponent was Ynnari (multiple Hemlocks and Wraithguard in serpents) in Vanguard and Flyer detachments.

The games went very well for the Tau and here are some of my observations:

- 12 Command Points was very good as it allowed me to liberally use them to auto pass morale and take re-rolls pretty much whenever I thought I needed to. However, 12 command points required me to take units that did not do much work. I think maybe 8 Command Points may work too and maybe take a few more work horse units.

- Kroot...Oh my god... become amazing when you can liberally spend 2 command points to auto pass morale tests. When playing ITC missions, some Maelstrom points are for killing units so your opponent is going to look on the board and see a juicy unit of kroot ripe for the picking. Unless they can kill every single Kroot in that unit, you can deny them that point, or you can stay on an objective if the kroot are assaulted. Auto pass morale for Kroot is so good. Of course this is assuming you have a stockpile of command points like I did. If seemed that these auto pass morale happened at least twice a game where it really made a difference.

- Bubble wrapping - The difference between losing some of your good units on turn 1 if you go 2nd. I bubble wrapped with the Kroot and firewarriors to prevent the Hemlocks from invading my area and deleting the Yvhara/Sunshark/Hammerhead right off the bat. Guys this really works but you do need some bodies. I figured that I needed to deny the Hemlocks their 16" firing range and deny them space to hop over into my back field. I had more than enough chaff units to do this but I think a minimum of 30 or so troops bodies should get you by.

Vespid - They aren't bad but didnt do much work because wraithgaurd are T5. Tough to make a good conclusion of them based on that, since most armies arn'te full of T5 models and up. In one game they dropped down and nearly wiped a 10 man Warp Spider squad. But that was about it.

Krootox Rider - Didn't do much work but managed to survive quite a few games.Cheap and made the Brigade possible.

Hammerhead - This is where I spent a lot of my rerolls for my shooting phases. The re-rolls make i's single shot reliable but, as many have commented before, the damage is not that great. I am having hard time putting this back into a list.

Firesight Marksman - They're ok for the points. They are the type of cheap unit you'll want to use if you need to fill elite slots for detachment requirements. They buff Sniper drones and have a markerlight with better BS. Their markerlights never made that much of a difference but landing a markerlight for reroll 1s was nice. Just don't go in with high expectations with these guys and you'll be fine.

Sniper Drones - Tough call on these guys as their range of their guns are nice but trying to actually kill characters seemed to be a constant disappointment. Again, they are good unit to fill slots for a Brigade. It is probably better to think of them as a more expensive firewarrior with a longer range gun.

Pathfinders - They're good and cheap and usually guarantee a markerlight to get re-rolls of 1s. I typically applied markerlights for my firewarriors and sniper drones. I added the pulse accelerator drone which makes firewarriors much better. The pulse accelerator will be an auto take if I end up taking at least two large squads of firewarriors.

Firewarriors - They're ok for now. The pulse accelerator drone makes them better as their range will go to 36" However I am finding myself wanting to pay more points for a firewarrior that has some AP -. AP -1 would be nice. You work hard to get these little guys to hit something only to see the few shots that made wounds, easily saved. So with all of those firewarriors in my list, I would typically on get 1 or 2 unsaved wounds per shooting phase. When my opponent switched to jetbikes with T4, the wounds from firewarrriors went up but still nothing exciting. If you just wanted to hold objectives in the backfield, Kroot can do it for cheaper and you aren't going to notice a large difference in unsaved wounds compared to firewarriors.

Y'Vahra - It was nerfed in many ways, but I still managed to get it to do work. I didn't make my points back every game but it will make for a bloodbath. I spent many of command point rerolls on it's 4++ save, which was nice against the strength 10 flamers that wraithgaurd have. It lost the 24" jump move and mini torrent which was the awesome sauce in 7th. Also, it's not fun to Nova charge, lose on wound, and roll a 5 on a 3D6 flamer shots. Booooo. Its not an auto take but can still be a worthy choice.

Sunshark Bomber - Hard to judge this unit based off of my opponent. It is really for thinning out horde armies and my opponent was running a very low model count list. Be as it may, it deletes infantry with ease but you may find it underwhelming if there isn't enough infantry on the table to fly over every turn. I had that problem where I had to spend a turn or two just turn it around for another bombing run. Its saving grace is its cheap point value. I think I will keep it in all most of my lists because I can see the value of it against troop heavy armies.

Commanders - These guys will usually make up for the mediocrity of many of the other units in our army. No complaints with these guys other than feeling a little weird that our HQ choices are doing the majority of the work for our army. I may buy another one but I don't think I would go more than 4 as I am getting a feeling that HQ's, in general, may be getting nerfed in the future. Amazing performance, it puts the hurt on units pretty quick. I havent had the chance to play a horde army yet with my Tau but I can imagine that dropping down with 4 X Fusions wont feel as amazing if my opponent bubble wraps to keep my fusion shots out of range of their power units.We'll see. I may switch to 4 X missiles on the 4th Commander and have him lead maybe a unit of missile crisis suits.

In terms of what I was usually spending the Command points on:

- Auto Pass Morale on Kroot

- Re-roll on saves for Y'Vahra

- Re-roll to hit for the Hammerhead

- Re-roll on the 3D6 or the 3D3 weapons shots for Y'vahra


I enjoyed playing the Tau within the ITC format. The biggest take away from playing Tau in 8th vs older editions, that I found, is that they currently feel a little lopsided. Our army lists are relying on a very small handful of units to do most of the work for us - read Commanders. Markerlights are a neat change, with the reroll 1s with 1 marker, but I think that the progressive increase in ballistic skill from additional marker lights was a major backbone to the army that is currently missing. Seeker missiles take too much work for too little pay off. They could fix seeker missiles if they made them more than one use only. I was genuinely surprised by my Kroot - and so was my opponent. They aren't that easy to wipe off the table and auto passing morale forces an opponent to overkill a 60 point unit to ensure it dies completely. I also play Chaos Marines and will attempt the same auto pass morale strategy with a Brigade with cultists and see how it goes. Command Points can make all the difference, if you have enough. I may not have needed to go Brigade but I think starting the game with 8 Command Points will get you a couple of auto morale passes ( 2 CPs each) and 4 re-rolls while leaving room for a better unit or two.

Do you guys think a pair of riptides, Running HBC +Plasma +Ats+TL would work as distraction carnifexs? It's obviously overpriced, but running them almost as cheap as possible (just letting them move and shoot, and -1 ap for HBC to be more threatening) and nova charging makes them non-ignorable? they have enough durability to survive the average charge, fly out and blast the unit in the face.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I'd be reasonably surprised if the extras weren't a fleshing out of the existing non-Tau options we have. Plastic hounds, Vespids, and Krootoxen would be totally awesome. I could also see the return of Gnarlocs and other peripheral Krootiness. I don't expect many (or any) actual new units, much less a new spin-off race. Maybe rules for Imperial Auxiliaries or at least some way of working in Imperium allies could be cool. Again, any tweaks that make our book more balanced and competitive against the field are more than welcome.

Except for the fact that LAdy Atia was reply to someone asking if the new Tau release would be a min-army style release AoS style sub-faction and she basically said what she did. So she is heavily implying whatever race or release we see will be themed. So no mixed race auxiliary release. I personally think this is for the best anyways as it allows for fleshing out of a single race.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

MilkmanAl wrote:
I'd be reasonably surprised if the extras weren't a fleshing out of the existing non-Tau options we have. Plastic hounds, Vespids, and Krootoxen would be totally awesome. I could also see the return of Gnarlocs and other peripheral Krootiness. I don't expect many (or any) actual new units, much less a new spin-off race. Maybe rules for Imperial Auxiliaries or at least some way of working in Imperium allies could be cool. Again, any tweaks that make our book more balanced and competitive against the field are more than welcome.

With the release of the Fallen, Genestealer Cults, and other small auxiliary forces, fleshing out the Kroot is something that is definitely feasible. Right now we have Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, the Kroot Ox, and the Shaper. There is still a lot of potential and mostly-easy design space to create an entire Kroot army, and people have been crying for it for years. Hell, release the Kroot primarch too - the Krootarch!

I've never wanted anything more than a Kroot Primarch in my life.

Kroot need an HQ option and a heavy support. And, you know ... plastic kits.

I wonder if you couldn't manage to get three plastic KrootOx in one box (akin to Tyranid Warriors or Ogryn) and stick a secondary option in there, like some kind of melee-monster Krrotox. Give 'em talon glove hands instead of normal hands, leave off the rider, and let 'em do what comes naturally. Failing that, a rider with a Kroot rifle, mainly there to tell it what to go mulch but who fires off a shot now and then while it's leaping around, punching stuff.

Plastic Kroot hounds are also badly needed. not sure if it'd be better to put 4 in a box of 10 Kroot carnivores or to make them a box of their own. (I think that they redid the Kroot bnox some time ago, so aren't likely to do it again, but, who knows?)

 Gamgee wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
I'd be reasonably surprised if the extras weren't a fleshing out of the existing non-Tau options we have. Plastic hounds, Vespids, and Krootoxen would be totally awesome. I could also see the return of Gnarlocs and other peripheral Krootiness. I don't expect many (or any) actual new units, much less a new spin-off race. Maybe rules for Imperial Auxiliaries or at least some way of working in Imperium allies could be cool. Again, any tweaks that make our book more balanced and competitive against the field are more than welcome.

Except for the fact that LAdy Atia was reply to someone asking if the new Tau release would be a min-army style release AoS style sub-faction and she basically said what she did. So she is heavily implying whatever race or release we see will be themed. So no mixed race auxiliary release. I personally think this is for the best anyways as it allows for fleshing out of a single race.

That sounds like good news to me!

On Fire Warriors, they're significantly better with a Fireblade. A min squad of FWs for 40 points is getting 15 S5 shots within 15". 18" with the pulse accelerator. Plus they bring a BS 2+ Markerlight

Fireblades also buff gun drones because they don't specify Infantry, just <Sept> units with the valid pulse weapons. A Gun Drone buffed by a Fireblade is getting 6 shots at 9", for an 8 point model.

With a BS 2 markerlight hit allowing rerolls of 1 to hit I had 15 Fire Warriors, a Fireblade, and like 5 gun drones do about 8 unsaved wounds to Skarbrand the other day. Then a fusion commander finished him off. Fire Warriors aren't game winners, but with a Fireblade you can pull about 70+ shots for around 200 points.

Fireblade is 45 pts I think
15 Fire warriors is 120
5 Gun Drones is 40
205 points for up to 75 pulse shots and a BS 2 Markerlight.

They don't win games by themselves but they provide a lot of cheap supporting fire for your hard hitters with the right buffs.

Kroot design offers up endless possibilities, it's a shame GW haven't taken advantage of it yet.

- Giant bird/lizard riders
- Big, hulking swamp beasts akin to dreadnoughts and Knights
- Different strains of Kroot, IE. warrior, flyer, tunneler, psyker bioforms.

Almost a cross between Orks and Tyranids where technology and adaptability are concerned.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Kroot design offers up endless possibilities, it's a shame GW haven't taken advantage of it yet.

- Giant bird/lizard riders
- Big, hulking swamp beasts akin to dreadnoughts and Knights
- Different strains of Kroot, IE. warrior, flyer, tunneler, psyker bioforms.

Almost a cross between Orks and Tyranids where technology and adaptability are concerned.

I love Kroot, but they've gotten progressively worse and worse with every edition of the game. I miss Kroot that ruled the forests and wanted to eat the slain on the spot (not to mention Kroot rifles giving an extra attack).

 John Prins wrote:

I love Kroot, but they've gotten progressively worse and worse with every edition of the game. I miss Kroot that ruled the forests and wanted to eat the slain on the spot (not to mention Kroot rifles giving an extra attack).

Don't forget the lost point of strength

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

I love Kroot, but they've gotten progressively worse and worse with every edition of the game. I miss Kroot that ruled the forests and wanted to eat the slain on the spot (not to mention Kroot rifles giving an extra attack).

Don't forget the lost point of strength

I haven't, though the Kroot Rifle sort of gives it back. I'd rather they had native S4, though. I'm interested into people's uses for Kroot as they stand. Saving CP for morale checks is pretty necessary, because Kroot die so easy with S3 6+ armor. Uses I can think of:

1: Turn 1 Rapid Fire: 7" scout move, 7" move means they're 10" from the enemy line (assuming a 24" gap at deployment). And maybe a charge if you're lucky.
2: Bubble Wrapping to prevent deep strike. It's cheap (60 points for 10 Kroot), but the Kroot will vanish by the end of Turn 1.
3: Counter Assault: This works against big things with low numbers of powerful attacks, like monstrous creatures or vehicles. Throw Kroot into the meat grinder. Who cares if a couple die every turn as long as it pins the nasty down for a few turns. However, Kroot hounds are better for this, though Kroot hounds are far less versatile.

 John Prins wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

I love Kroot, but they've gotten progressively worse and worse with every edition of the game. I miss Kroot that ruled the forests and wanted to eat the slain on the spot (not to mention Kroot rifles giving an extra attack).

Don't forget the lost point of strength

I haven't, though the Kroot Rifle sort of gives it back. I'd rather they had native S4, though. I'm interested into people's uses for Kroot as they stand. Saving CP for morale checks is pretty necessary, because Kroot die so easy with S3 6+ armor. Uses I can think of:

1: Turn 1 Rapid Fire: 7" scout move, 7" move means they're 10" from the enemy line (assuming a 24" gap at deployment). And maybe a charge if you're lucky.
2: Bubble Wrapping to prevent deep strike. It's cheap (60 points for 10 Kroot), but the Kroot will vanish by the end of Turn 1.
3: Counter Assault: This works against big things with low numbers of powerful attacks, like monstrous creatures or vehicles. Throw Kroot into the meat grinder. Who cares if a couple die every turn as long as it pins the nasty down for a few turns. However, Kroot hounds are better for this, though Kroot hounds are far less versatile.

Cheap objective holders, deep strike-prevention, and meat grinder tactics against the big boys.

That's true, 20 kroot in melee with a dreadnought will probably just sit there all game. He could fall back and have something else shoot it but you still stalled it a turn and he's having to dedicate some shooting at the kroot that could have been going at crisis suits.

i just realized we cant use drones to protect a stormsurge...
Its not infantry or battlesuit....

I was pretty down on crisis suits but I think I have found a pretty good use for them. A 3 man with 8x plasma guns and 1 drone controller and 6 gun drones is pretty brutal deep strike firepower. It's only 267 points and will straight up kill a 10 man MEQ unit in a single turn - without marker lights.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i just realized we cant use drones to protect a stormsurge...
Its not infantry or battlesuit....

But you can a Taunar...

Which i dont get, but not like im ever fielding my ta'unar again anyway.
1200pts for a NERFED ta'unar? it was too durable at 600pts but it was definitely not overpowered in offense. Stormsurge routinely did more damage than the Ta'unar did.

actually rather mad i have that thing now.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Which i dont get, but not like im ever fielding my ta'unar again anyway.
1200pts for a NERFED ta'unar? it was too durable at 600pts but it was definitely not overpowered in offense. Stormsurge routinely did more damage than the Ta'unar did.

actually rather mad i have that thing now.

It's still a very cool model, definitely a center-piece to any Tau army. There's always Ebay if you can't stand looking at it though.

Oh its an awesome model no doubt about that. I'm against selling models though because every time i've done that ive wanted to shoot myself a few months later.
Plus, its purple lol. Nobody is going to buy a purple ta'unar at even half the retail price. If i was going to sell it, that is

Well the storm surge sucks too.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well the storm surge sucks too.

Prettyyyy much. Who knows, maybe the Codex will fix more than the Riptide.

They should make seeker missiles 1D3 damage and D-missiles like 3+1D3 damage. Might be too powerful though. Or they could just make Stormsurge T8. Heck, even Titanic Feet would be an improvement.

I find the Taunar disgustingly ugly and unoriginal so... I'm saved from having to consider buying it anyways. Gotta get myself a new Tigershark soon though!

Speaking of which, has anyone given any thought to the Tigershark strike fighter version? It might be nice to dump 14 drones somewhere behind your opponent's army or maybe next to a bunch of deep-struck Commanders on turn 2. It doesn't have particularly great firepower for the points, but a lightning-fast, exceptionally tough transport is pretty cool.

I have but the AX-1-0 varaint is better for the price. Drones being dropped off behind enemy lines aren't very useful. You want them to be protecting and shooting as much as possible. Sure it has a niche use of possibly getting line breaker or maybe the rare objective but it's a lot of points investment just for that.

It pains me to say since the railguns on the Bomber look better and not so oversized.

Indeed. If I were to use it, I'd probably support other stuff that's dropping in since 2 drones per Commander isn't exactly a wealth of protection. It's tough to ignore the AX-1-0's "delete large unit" ability, though, considering it's not all that much more expensive.

Yeah it's easily one of if not the most points efficient Titan Hunters in the game right now. A year or two down the line when 8th has settled in and I'm itching for a big project during a dry spell of release I'll probably grab one. Right now GW is on too much of a hot streak.

I'm gonna get one just to use in FW friendly tournaments, and solely because I hate FW stuff and I don't want to have to deal with crazy vehicules, titants, and knights. The Tigershark is the ultimate anti FW, FW unit.

Vineheart01 wrote:Which i dont get, but not like im ever fielding my ta'unar again anyway.
1200pts for a NERFED ta'unar? it was too durable at 600pts but it was definitely not overpowered in offense. Stormsurge routinely did more damage than the Ta'unar did.

actually rather mad i have that thing now.

Well, all big guys got a whooping price increase, so I don't think 1200 is that bad for it... it's just not taht killy for such price tag (an Eldar Revenant Titan costs the same and is way killier)

MilkmanAl wrote:Speaking of which, has anyone given any thought to the Tigershark strike fighter version? It might be nice to dump 14 drones somewhere behind your opponent's army or maybe next to a bunch of deep-struck Commanders on turn 2. It doesn't have particularly great firepower for the points, but a lightning-fast, exceptionally tough transport is pretty cool.

If you exchange the drone port for skyspear missile racks, you'll get quite the all-around airplane! It's like a super-sized Barracuda. With HBC and SMR, you can dish out lots of S6 pain!

I think FW is one of the few reasons Tau have competitive options outside of "spam nine Commanders and call our faction completely fine and balanced", namely in the Y'Vahra and possibly Tiger Shark. I know there's lots of butthurt over the Y'Vahra and people like to cry about it, but at 400 points, it's quite well balanced for how long it can survive.