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 Haechi wrote:
I need help with the wording for Shadowsun's drone.
"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

What is mandatory? Can she have zero drones? Can she have only on shield drone? Can she have 2 shield drones but no Command Link drone?

Sounds like having any drones at all is optional, but when she does take them, one must be the Command Link Drone and any others must be Shield Drones.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
I need help with the wording for Shadowsun's drone.
"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

What is mandatory? Can she have zero drones? Can she have only on shield drone? Can she have 2 shield drones but no Command Link drone?

Sounds like having any drones at all is optional, but when she does take them, one must be the Command Link Drone and any others must be Shield Drones.

According to every builder I've used the command-link drone is mandatory and the shield drones are optional.

 Ishotfirst wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
I need help with the wording for Shadowsun's drone.
"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

What is mandatory? Can she have zero drones? Can she have only on shield drone? Can she have 2 shield drones but no Command Link drone?

Sounds like having any drones at all is optional, but when she does take them, one must be the Command Link Drone and any others must be Shield Drones.

According to every builder I've used the command-link drone is mandatory and the shield drones are optional.

Could be. The phrasing "She is accompanied by up to 3..." seems to suggest you could take zero drones, but that's seems to be open to interpretation.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
You played against 11?

See, this is where a big problem with the community comes into play, because people should be actively refusing games with people like this. It's the same situation with hundreds of Conscripts, ten Demon Princes, etc. Playing games outside of a tournament with these "builds" just proliferates that kind of cheese.

I'd be surprised if anyone who wasn't planning on hitting tournaments would actually have that many Commanders. Commanders haven't historically been particularly useful outside of force multiplication, so certainly nobody actually came into 8th edition with 5+ unless they just had a gigantic Tau collection.

In the past, I've played in a pretty competitive group that ran dead hard lists. I've definitely had to face a fair amount of netlists and their variants, so facing a tournament-winning list is not an issue for me. I just feel like the spam lists 8th has encouraged so far aren't fun. Even my tournament-caliber list from 7th had a fair amount of variety in it. Now, you just spam Commanders and gun drones, Stormravens, Conscripts, brinstone horrors, etc. and get far up the rankings. No bueno. Again, I hope codexes do the meta some good and mix things up a bit. Given the faction bonuses and strategens they've been coming out with, I'm optimistic.

 Ishotfirst wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
I need help with the wording for Shadowsun's drone.
"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

What is mandatory? Can she have zero drones? Can she have only on shield drone? Can she have 2 shield drones but no Command Link drone?

Sounds like having any drones at all is optional, but when she does take them, one must be the Command Link Drone and any others must be Shield Drones.

According to every builder I've used the command-link drone is mandatory and the shield drones are optional.

No builder is official so far. Everybody says on AdvancedTauTactica that none are mandatory.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
You played against 11?

See, this is where a big problem with the community comes into play, because people should be actively refusing games with people like this. It's the same situation with hundreds of Conscripts, ten Demon Princes, etc. Playing games outside of a tournament with these "builds" just proliferates that kind of cheese.

There is also the possibility that it isn't true (Which I suspect is the case) How many points was this game? What were they kitted out with? How was the force organised? 11 commanders is over 2k points alone.

 Hollow wrote:
You played against 11?

I did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
You played against 11?

See, this is where a big problem with the community comes into play, because people should be actively refusing games with people like this. It's the same situation with hundreds of Conscripts, ten Demon Princes, etc. Playing games outside of a tournament with these "builds" just proliferates that kind of cheese.

It was a tournament. You dont get to choose your opponents. Lol. You just deal with the reality of it. I forgot to do one little thing or he would have been in deep trouble. So it isn't as if he had it in the bag, and he actually lost the first round. 11 Commanders will table you though if you aren't prepared to deal with it. My Vanguard Kroot would have done wonders to mitigate what he did to me, and I plum forgot to do it. It was just a mistake on my part bu in our next game, I think it will be a different story.

Are 3 Yvarhas worth it anymore?

On the topic of Commanders, I'm never ever going to spam them even if it's competitive to do so. I'm just hoping Tau get more competitive builds from other units. I do intend to pick up a Coldstar at some point just because I absolutely LOVE that model! I'm probably going to wait for the Tau codex to drop before I purchase anything new for my Tau, though. If I do run them before then, I'll make do with the collection I currently have (which is reasonably extensive).

Hi, Space Marine player here. Just played in a tournament where my second opponent was a 130-model Drone Spam list putting out so many dice he had a huge tray just so he could roll them all without half of them spilling off the table, and he almost couldn't hold them all even in two hands. My third opponent had 9 Commanders, 3 with each type of loadout except one Coldstar (to capture objectives), all hiding behind drones and killing most of my stuff in one shot. Luckily both guys were really nice. I really hope you guys get a good codex that fixes this stuff because right now i sort of feel like never playing Tau again...

Can a model with early warning override shoot multiple times if multiple different units deep strike within 12 inches?

GreaterGouda wrote:
Can a model with early warning override shoot multiple times if multiple different units deep strike within 12 inches?

I suppose, no nomenclature saying 1ce per turn, or 1ce per phase, just When a unit "arrives" within 12 inches of you by using an ability, you make immediately make a shooting attack. its not even made at the end of the phase, its immediate.

 pumaman1 wrote:

GreaterGouda wrote:
Can a model with early warning override shoot multiple times if multiple different units deep strike within 12 inches?

I suppose, no nomenclature saying 1ce per turn, or 1ce per phase, just When a unit "arrives" within 12 inches of you by using an ability, you make immediately make a shooting attack. its not even made at the end of the phase, its immediate.

That seems correct. Amazing but correct. The limitation on range is obviously the limiting factor and why I havent used it as much but that will changhe if i keep seeing 11 Crisis Commanders drop from the skies. Lol.

In your various experiences, can a riptide still function as a distraction carnifex? or do you find that everyone knows how poorly it does for the points that they ignore it?

 pumaman1 wrote:
In your various experiences, can a riptide still function as a distraction carnifex? or do you find that everyone knows how poorly it does for the points that they ignore it?

So far it still works for me. Which I find unbelievable. I had a huge argument against the Riptide on a french forum exactly because of that. It's costly, it does barely any damage, and has amazing tanking capabilities. Why would any shoot at it? Then I fielded one in a recent tournament where I sort of had to because of extreme restrictions in army building, and what do you know... Everybody kept shooting at it. Even under 3++. Like... Why?

 Haechi wrote:

 pumaman1 wrote:
In your various experiences, can a riptide still function as a distraction carnifex? or do you find that everyone knows how poorly it does for the points that they ignore it?

So far it still works for me. Which I find unbelievable. I had a huge argument against the Riptide on a french forum exactly because of that. It's costly, it does barely any damage, and has amazing tanking capabilities. Why would any shoot at it? Then I fielded one in a recent tournament where I sort of had to because of extreme restrictions in army building, and what do you know... Everybody kept shooting at it. Even under 3++. Like... Why?

Well to be fair, people have been conditioned due to Riptide Wings to slay them on sight.

I’ve played a Riptide three times against one opponent. The first game he tried to kill it, and failed to scratch the paint because of Saviour Protocols. The second and third game he ignored it entirely and faired better for it.

It’s only a matter of time before everyone starts doing the same.

The only time I've faced Tau in 8th the opponent was running two Riptides. I ignored them both and beat him easily.

I am guessing there's no hope currently for fluffy Tau? It's all commander spam or drone spam? No place for actual fire warriors, battlesuits and tanks like the olden days?

Wayniac wrote:
I am guessing there's no hope currently for fluffy Tau? It's all commander spam or drone spam? No place for actual fire warriors, battlesuits and tanks like the olden days?

Not for tournaments. Casual games yes. There is a build I’m going for that is more fluffy but it involves buying stuff I haven’t saved for yet. Even then I still don’t intend on buying much else until the new codex drops.

Wayniac wrote:
I am guessing there's no hope currently for fluffy Tau? It's all commander spam or drone spam? No place for actual fire warriors, battlesuits and tanks like the olden days?

Well, if the tournament restrictions are appropriate, then yes, actually, there is hope for fluffy T'au lists.

For example, last weekend was Tacticon in Denver, and they ran a 2000-point tournament that limited all lists to a single Battle Forged Battalion.

This effectively limited most kinds of T'au spam. With a maximum of three Commanders available and only three Fast Attacks lots, if you want to play in that kind of tournament, you need to look to less-efficient options to fill out anti-tank slots. This suddenly made things like Crisis Suits and Ghostkeels worth your attention. Fire Warriors are the cheapest source for filling out Troop slots since you can take them in groups of five.

I'm personally drifting towards tournament restrictions that look like this:

Battle Forged

1 Battalion

0-1 Super Heavy Auxillary

0-1 Fortification Network

No model with a Power Level above 30

Wayniac wrote:
I am guessing there's no hope currently for fluffy Tau? It's all commander spam or drone spam? No place for actual fire warriors, battlesuits and tanks like the olden days?

I dunno about that. Fire Warriors and battlesuits are still being seen and used. Tanks not at all. And that really is a big fat shame in my eyes. they had JUST created that formation in 7E that made tanks good again and they didnt port that to 8th (yet).

I am hoping they enhance the tanks. they really deserve to be on the field aesthetically.

The railgun on the hammerhead is still not sufficiently destructive. It should have been a D weapon in 7th, and it should cause catastrophic damage to anything it hits. Like D6+6 wounds or something like that.

relasine wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I am guessing there's no hope currently for fluffy Tau? It's all commander spam or drone spam? No place for actual fire warriors, battlesuits and tanks like the olden days?

Well, if the tournament restrictions are appropriate, then yes, actually, there is hope for fluffy T'au lists.

For example, last weekend was Tacticon in Denver, and they ran a 2000-point tournament that limited all lists to a single Battle Forged Battalion.

This effectively limited most kinds of T'au spam. With a maximum of three Commanders available and only three Fast Attacks lots, if you want to play in that kind of tournament, you need to look to less-efficient options to fill out anti-tank slots. This suddenly made things like Crisis Suits and Ghostkeels worth your attention. Fire Warriors are the cheapest source for filling out Troop slots since you can take them in groups of five.

I'm personally drifting towards tournament restrictions that look like this:

Battle Forged

1 Battalion

0-1 Super Heavy Auxillary

0-1 Fortification Network

No model with a Power Level above 30

One Battalion? Certainly limits Tau, but some other armies not as much. I wouldn't field a Tau list for a tournament like that.

In the GT I run, I have allowed up to three Detachments, but if you want a third Detachment it had to be a CAD. In 8th it would have to change and probably to a Brigade.

I think the game is funnest when you actually get to SEE the codex on display. I want to see how good a GENERAL you are, not how good a MATHEMATICIAN You are. anyone can get online and get the "killer list of doom" out but... to actually coordinate and time and make use of terrain and all the other aspects, it takes skill.

I wanna' know who the best at the GAME is, not the best at math.

Just my two cents.

xmbk wrote:

One Battalion? Certainly limits Tau, but some other armies not as much. I wouldn't field a Tau list for a tournament like that.

I'm hoping that Chapter Approved will rectify this whilst T'au players wait anxiously for their codex.

 Jancoran wrote:
In the GT I run, I have allowed up to three Detachments, but if you want a third Detachment it had to be a CAD. In 8th it would have to change and probably to a Brigade.

I think the game is funnest when you actually get to SEE the codex on display. I want to see how good a GENERAL you are, not how good a MATHEMATICIAN You are. anyone can get online and get the "killer list of doom" out but... to actually coordinate and time and make use of terrain and all the other aspects, it takes skill.

I wanna' know who the best at the GAME is, not the best at math.

Just my two cents.

The best players have to use both. So you are by default also seeing the best mathematicans.

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
In the GT I run, I have allowed up to three Detachments, but if you want a third Detachment it had to be a CAD. In 8th it would have to change and probably to a Brigade.

I think the game is funnest when you actually get to SEE the codex on display. I want to see how good a GENERAL you are, not how good a MATHEMATICIAN You are. anyone can get online and get the "killer list of doom" out but... to actually coordinate and time and make use of terrain and all the other aspects, it takes skill.

I wanna' know who the best at the GAME is, not the best at math.

Just my two cents.

The best players have to use both. So you are by default also seeing the best mathematicans.

The best players CAN use both. But they aren't REQUIRED to unless you force them to. Bad players get exposed when they can't just do the 11 Command suit thing (not that the guy using the 11 suits is bad, just that he cannot demonstrate he is good while doing it).

I mean what skill does it require to deep strike and roll dice...and win for all intents and purposes, round 1? None. Literally none. That's unfortunate because that person, while he gets the wins and the ITC points, never gets what he probably wishes he had: genuine respect for his game skill. All the respect goes to the "build" which anyone could emulate. The build is no credit to the general. That's just a function of math and lots of people have figured out that its good, so it doesnt make you noteworthy for taking it, even though you may be the finest general to ever live.

I have literally no idea how many gamers REALLY care beyond the win. It may be that only a miniscule fraction do. Its an impossible thing to gauge, am I right? That said, one of the things I always feel great about is the respect I get from my opponents, especially the regular ones. It isn't my army they have the healthy respect for.

Good generals welcome the challenge of a tournament that forces you to prove it, I think.

"I mean what skill does it require to deep strike and roll dice...and win for all intents and purposes, round 1? None. Literally none."

There is a skill in recognizing GW's mathematical goof ups. Which is a different skill than pushing the plastic around, admittedly. I'd still say a huge component of the game is won and lost in the list building phase. Then the rest is determined by skill.

I don't know how many gamers care beyond the win, either. Given the number of converts to Eldar in 7th, I''m putting the over at 33% tops.

Martel732 wrote:
"I mean what skill does it require to deep strike and roll dice...and win for all intents and purposes, round 1? None. Literally none."

There is a skill in recognizing GW's mathematical goof ups. Which is a different skill than pushing the plastic around, admittedly. I'd still say a huge component of the game is won and lost in the list building phase. Then the rest is determined by skill.

I don't know how many gamers care beyond the win, either. Given the number of converts to Eldar in 7th, I''m putting the over at 33% tops.

Yeah I just don't give much credit to a guy for spamming the "best thing in the codex". That's like Stelek if you remember HIM. His only advice, EVER was to spam like that and he hardly ever won anything of note. He had one good run one year and he rode that like a Bantha on his forum but i mean that kind of thinking lacks any imagination and masks what might otherwise prove to be a brilliant General.

Anywho, regardless of that, all i was getting at is why i like the idea of some requirements at tournaments. Tournaments are supposed to be fun as well as challenging and they will be challenging no matter what the requirements might be. the difference is in how much fun people have doing it.

as for your over-under thought of 33% I don't disagree.