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The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
Hi guys, I'm sure you get questions like this a lot, but if you can help me, a quick search did not yeald exactly what I'm looking for.
A friend of mine got really interested in TAU. Now I'm looking to help him build a 750-1000pts starter list. I'm thinking the less models he has to paint as a get-go, the better, so I was considering getting him a few battlesuits and drones.
What would you recommend to a total noob to muster about 750-1000pts of Tau models?
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
MilkmanAl wrote: You can do that, but it'd be a lost more effective to just have more drones instead of paying for another Crisis Suit body.
not with an extra man, but the third man going bare bones and the other 2 with all the guns with drones as normal. dont see why this isnt everywhere.
Because spending those points on drones is both better protection for your suits and much more firepower.
What would you recommend to a total noob to muster about 750-1000pts of Tau models?
you could do a lot worse than a Commander, a Ghostkeel,a units of stealth suits, a couple crisis suits, and fill the rest with drones and fire warriors. It's not 100% optimized, but it uses some of the better units we have available and provides a diverse force featuring some sweet models.
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
Thought I'd try here for some pointers. I'd like to start a Tau army, but really only focusing on crisis suits and larger mechs, not really any foot troops. It's more a building & painting project (like all of my armies) but I would like it to be a playable army in the end. I don't play competitively and I'm not a play to win type, but I'd like an army that won't get wiped out in 2 or 3 turns.
I'm going to start with the Stormsurge and then I imagine a couple of crisis suit teams & empire commander after that, and then go from there. I want to go for a "big robot" theme for the army.
Any tips for what to include? Or as I'm building, any weapon loadouts I should avoid (I may magnetize everything anyway)? Any other models I should consider adding in sooner rather than later?
The good news is that our big suits are awesome models. The bad news is that the only ones worth a crap in gameplay terms currently are the Y'Vahra and dual burst cannon xv9s. You could argue for Ghostkeels, too, I guess, but the rest are awful.
No matter, you'll have a super cool army, regardless! A Stormsurge is a good starting point, and you're probably going to want to magnetized it's weapons for whenever we get a codex. Currently the pulse blastcannon is mediocre since you very much want your Surge standing still for the +1 to hit. If you're up for magnets, that's a great strategy for Commanders and Crisis Suits. Most of their weapons are useful, and you'll allow yourself a lot of flexibility in list building. In fact, magnets are a good plan for anything that has multiple options.
I've always really enjoyed the Forgeworld suits, xv9s, Y'Vahras, and R'varnas, and those happen to be some of the more effective options we have. If you're willing to splurge on those, by all means, go for it.
Having read through this and a few other threads, I've drawn up a rough 2k list idea. Went with Brigade for 4CP a round usage (1 reroll in my shooting, 1 markerlight strat, 2 for insane bravado or 2 rerolls in their turn) over 3 rounds. I'm aware I could probably do 3 battalions and be better off, but I like the idea of brigades.
2x Commander with 3x MP + ATS
These guys, without any markerlights, are one of our only (semi) efficient long range AT options, and are also passable against medium infantry. Biggest advantage is they are highly mobile and can't be targetted.
1x Commander with 4x Fusion
Obvious choice is obvious. I play in an assault heavy meta, so I'm not keen on using 3x Fusion commanders, but I recognize how much better they are at picking up big enemies. Totally willing to swap as I get practice in.
2x6 Strike FW, sgt with markerlight
Cheap(ish) troops with a markerlight. Used to try to get a ML up before firing pathfinders, and if pathfinders bite it first, still a chance to get a ML up to use with ML strat.
2x10 Breachers
Second line troops, moving forward towards objectives, realistically will be my second speed bump.
2x10 Kroot
Deny DS, move forward and be obnoxious.
2x3 Stealth Suits
Midfield disruption. Was considering marksmen for more reliable markers, but wanted to try stealth suits first.
1x Ghostkeel with 3x fusion, target lock
More fusion and midfield. Model is cool.
2x1 Broadside, HRR, SMS, Target Lock
Broadsides are stupid overpriced. The HRR offers a halfway decent AT gun. Target Lock lets you deploy out of LOS and stay moving, even if it's only 5". Considering I intend to use the HRR in support of the markers and the missiles to support elsewhere, MT seems like a waste. Considered plasma vs SMS with the TL to make it a moving fire support unit, but Tau plasma is just kinda gak.
1 Broadside HYMP, SMS, ATS
Stupidly overpriced. Just a chance at a lot of dice.
Overall, the only big liability in the list is the 350 pts of shooting I'm getting for 600 pts for in the Broadsides. I don't like hammerheads much more, and the only cheap option to fill brigade slots are sniper drones. But I'm building this list with the assumption that the codex is dropping in a few months, and I'll be looking at at least a 10-20% points reduction and/or large damage output increase. Other option is to drop to 2x battalion and swap the broadsides with a stormsurge, fill the remaining points with markerlights.
I've got a friend who likes to run 5 Coldstars and 5 triple missile+ATS commanders, along with an Ethereal and a bunch of drones (shield mainly). I've faced that list, and let me tell you it is nasty. It's definitely not unbeatable, but it's probably one of the strongest Tau lists possible at present.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 13 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
ZergSmasher wrote: I've got a friend who likes to run 5 Coldstars and 5 triple missile+ATS commanders, along with an Ethereal and a bunch of drones (shield mainly). I've faced that list, and let me tell you it is nasty. It's definitely not unbeatable, but it's probably one of the strongest Tau lists possible at present.
Coldstars seem attractive except having such a limited weapon load out. Essentially two burst cannons and one missile pod really doesn't put their massive mobility to use, imo. How does he use them?
ZergSmasher wrote: I've got a friend who likes to run 5 Coldstars and 5 triple missile+ATS commanders, along with an Ethereal and a bunch of drones (shield mainly). I've faced that list, and let me tell you it is nasty. It's definitely not unbeatable, but it's probably one of the strongest Tau lists possible at present.
Coldstars seem attractive except having such a limited weapon load out. Essentially two burst cannons and one missile pod really doesn't put their massive mobility to use, imo. How does he use them?
He keeps them behind a screen of shield drones, using their mobility to move them to whichever side the enemy is on. Many times the burst cannons are out of range, but when they are in range that's a fair amount of shots that hit on 2's and wound on 3's against most non-vehicle, non-monster targets. He usually puts ATS on these guys as well to make those shots AP-1. Basically they are more reliable than flamers and have better range, but they are mainly defensive. Not as good in overwatch, but it should be mentioned that in the game I played I charged exactly one commander before I was brutally tabled, and even then I failed to kill it.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 13 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
Having read through this and a few other threads, I've drawn up a rough 2k list idea. Went with Brigade for 4CP a round usage (1 reroll in my shooting, 1 markerlight strat, 2 for insane bravado or 2 rerolls in their turn) over 3 rounds. I'm aware I could probably do 3 battalions and be better off, but I like the idea of brigades.
2x Commander with 3x MP + ATS
These guys, without any markerlights, are one of our only (semi) efficient long range AT options, and are also passable against medium infantry. Biggest advantage is they are highly mobile and can't be targetted.
1x Commander with 4x Fusion
Obvious choice is obvious. I play in an assault heavy meta, so I'm not keen on using 3x Fusion commanders, but I recognize how much better they are at picking up big enemies. Totally willing to swap as I get practice in.
2x6 Strike FW, sgt with markerlight
Cheap(ish) troops with a markerlight. Used to try to get a ML up before firing pathfinders, and if pathfinders bite it first, still a chance to get a ML up to use with ML strat.
2x10 Breachers
Second line troops, moving forward towards objectives, realistically will be my second speed bump.
2x10 Kroot
Deny DS, move forward and be obnoxious.
2x3 Stealth Suits
Midfield disruption. Was considering marksmen for more reliable markers, but wanted to try stealth suits first.
1x Ghostkeel with 3x fusion, target lock
More fusion and midfield. Model is cool.
2x1 Broadside, HRR, SMS, Target Lock
Broadsides are stupid overpriced. The HRR offers a halfway decent AT gun. Target Lock lets you deploy out of LOS and stay moving, even if it's only 5". Considering I intend to use the HRR in support of the markers and the missiles to support elsewhere, MT seems like a waste. Considered plasma vs SMS with the TL to make it a moving fire support unit, but Tau plasma is just kinda gak.
1 Broadside HYMP, SMS, ATS
Stupidly overpriced. Just a chance at a lot of dice.
Overall, the only big liability in the list is the 350 pts of shooting I'm getting for 600 pts for in the Broadsides. I don't like hammerheads much more, and the only cheap option to fill brigade slots are sniper drones. But I'm building this list with the assumption that the codex is dropping in a few months, and I'll be looking at at least a 10-20% points reduction and/or large damage output increase. Other option is to drop to 2x battalion and swap the broadsides with a stormsurge, fill the remaining points with markerlights.
Are Broadsides in there just for the brigade? I think you'll be disappointed, esp in an assault heavy meta. Hounds and Gun Drones are great, esp for tactical players. No matter what, KP screw Tau. Fireblade and Overwatch make for a great anvil, with a few Shields I think it's the most feasible way to field Broadsides. Markerlights are ok, but in no way vital.
Are Broadsides in there just for the brigade? I think you'll be disappointed, esp in an assault heavy meta. Hounds and Gun Drones are great, esp for tactical players. No matter what, KP screw Tau. Fireblade and Overwatch make for a great anvil, with a few Shields I think it's the most feasible way to field Broadsides. Markerlights are ok, but in no way vital.
I think you're 100% right. Mathhammer never tells the full story, but in my experience it gives you a pretty good idea of what to expect, so my expectation for the Broadsides is super duper low. They're mostly just there for the brigade, like I said I could swap them with a stormsurge and figure out a double battalion instead.
My biggest issue with hounds and gun drones is their LD. Forces me to either go MSU or have copious CP for morale mitigation, though in actuality I imagine units will be getting picked up wholesale since neither is particularly durable (or expensive). Agreed on KP, currently Tau don't seem to have any expensive large units worth taking (Except the stormsurge, and the math puts it pretty firmly in the usable but not exceptional category), and their cheap stuff is mostly garbage LD so you're best served with MSU. But yes, I think hounds and gun drones look to be super strong, and there's a good chance I'll end up adjusting my list to accommodate them. For right now, I'm just trying to put together a solid 2k list that isn't going to blow over in most games, not something I will take to GTs (I use nids for that).
Cadre fireblades? What do you mean make for a great anvil? Put them with sizable gun drone/strike squads and use them to help with overwatch, I'm assuming?
Why not just go 2x gun drones for the same price as 1 shield drone? The 5+++ seems less attractive than a whole second model. With all the commanders and such I can easily have lots of pairs of drones running around.
I figured my output without markerlights, and wanted a list that could use them to help take down a single high value target per turn, rather than be relied on for every unit in the army. Pathfinders are too soft, and all other sources are too unreliable/expensive to rely on getting more than 1-2 markers per turn. If you instead expect to only ever try to mark 1 unit, and are just aiming to get that one target to 5, then it seems a lot more feasible (Especially with the markerlight stratagem giving you at least 2).
Exactly so on Fireblade. Solid area denial, very tough nut to crack. If someone focuses on it, you can usually win the game elsewhere with Commanders and Stealth/Drone teams.
Shields cost the same as gun drones. A few hanging back with Broads makes sense. Same for Fusion Commanders.
Hounds probably should be MSU, but you are right that it can be a pain. I use 5 and 10-man movement trays, helps a lot. It's not a complete waste to have a flying Ethereal accompany the Stealths to support 4-6 drone units, so up to 48 drones. There's usually a Hound or Kroot unit around as well to buff.
xmbk wrote: Exactly so on Fireblade. Solid area denial, very tough nut to crack. If someone focuses on it, you can usually win the game elsewhere with Commanders and Stealth/Drone teams.
Shields cost the same as gun drones. A few hanging back with Broads makes sense. Same for Fusion Commanders.
Hounds probably should be MSU, but you are right that it can be a pain. I use 5 and 10-man movement trays, helps a lot. It's not a complete waste to have a flying Ethereal accompany the Stealths to support 4-6 drone units, so up to 48 drones. There's usually a Hound or Kroot unit around as well to buff.
Shield drones have shield generators, those are 8 pts. So 16 pts/model vs 8pts/model for gun drones. If the argument is that they're not intended to pay for them because their entry does not say they're equipped with them, I reference the precedent with hemlocks to say they are still intended to pay for them. If they were intended to pay a different amount (0), they would have a separate entry, or a different name for their equipment.
[Edit] Drone costs include their wargear, moot point
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/19 22:55:56
xmbk wrote: Exactly so on Fireblade. Solid area denial, very tough nut to crack. If someone focuses on it, you can usually win the game elsewhere with Commanders and Stealth/Drone teams.
Shields cost the same as gun drones. A few hanging back with Broads makes sense. Same for Fusion Commanders.
Hounds probably should be MSU, but you are right that it can be a pain. I use 5 and 10-man movement trays, helps a lot. It's not a complete waste to have a flying Ethereal accompany the Stealths to support 4-6 drone units, so up to 48 drones. There's usually a Hound or Kroot unit around as well to buff.
Shield drones have shield generators, those are 8 pts. So 16 pts/model vs 8pts/model for gun drones. If the argument is that they're not intended to pay for them because their entry does not say they're equipped with them, I reference the precedent with hemlocks to say they are still intended to pay for them. If they were intended to pay a different amount (0), they would have a separate entry, or a different name for their equipment.
I was always under the impression that the shield generator cost was only for the support systems. You're actually the only person I've ever seen reference it as an additional cost on Shield Drones.
xmbk wrote: Exactly so on Fireblade. Solid area denial, very tough nut to crack. If someone focuses on it, you can usually win the game elsewhere with Commanders and Stealth/Drone teams.
Shields cost the same as gun drones. A few hanging back with Broads makes sense. Same for Fusion Commanders.
Hounds probably should be MSU, but you are right that it can be a pain. I use 5 and 10-man movement trays, helps a lot. It's not a complete waste to have a flying Ethereal accompany the Stealths to support 4-6 drone units, so up to 48 drones. There's usually a Hound or Kroot unit around as well to buff.
Shield drones have shield generators, those are 8 pts. So 16 pts/model vs 8pts/model for gun drones. If the argument is that they're not intended to pay for them because their entry does not say they're equipped with them, I reference the precedent with hemlocks to say they are still intended to pay for them. If they were intended to pay a different amount (0), they would have a separate entry, or a different name for their equipment.
Except for the fact that you're completely wrong. Reread the Tactical Drone unit entry. Shield Drones are not equipped with Shield Generators. They instead have a special rule Shield Generator: Shield Drones have a 4+ invulnerable save. The Tactical Drones unit entry specifically states that Gun Drones come equipped with 2 Pulse Carbines and Markerlight Drones come equipped with a Markerlight. Nowhere does it say that Shield Drones are equipped with Shield Generators. It doesn't matter if the special rule has the same name as a support system, they are not the same thing. You don't pay points for equipment the model does not have, and you don't pay points for special rules.
Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)
In my german index, on the page for the pointcosts, is the entry for Drones and Turrets listed with the little sentence that wargear is included in the costs.
Except for the fact that you're completely wrong. Reread the Tactical Drone unit entry. Shield Drones are not equipped with Shield Generators. They instead have a special rule Shield Generator: Shield Drones have a 4+ invulnerable save. The Tactical Drones unit entry specifically states that Gun Drones come equipped with 2 Pulse Carbines and Markerlight Drones come equipped with a Markerlight. Nowhere does it say that Shield Drones are equipped with Shield Generators. It doesn't matter if the special rule has the same name as a support system, they are not the same thing. You don't pay points for equipment the model does not have, and you don't pay points for special rules.
If you took the time to actually read my post, you would see that I pointed out exactly what you said, and referenced the hemlock wraithfighter for precedent. This is the exact argument people used for the hemlock wraithfighter, and they were wrong.
Joey86 wrote: In my german index, on the page for the pointcosts, is the entry for Drones and Turrets listed with the little sentence that wargear is included in the costs.
However, this is true of the English version as well, making my point moot, and shield drones obviously superior for defense. Thanks!
I think you're going to be surprised by the dakka gun drones throw out. They compare well to the Devilgant bomb, enough so that it's worth supporting them with Stealths(definitely) and maybe Fireblade/Ethereal. T4 and a 4+ is pretty durable, too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/20 17:10:53
One thing that has puzzled me since 8th was released is why people like shield drones as much as they do. I'm sure I'm missing something, here, since just about every competitive list I see relies heavily on them. My problem with them is that nobody ever trains firepower on them that the 4++ would be useful against. That is, my drones tend to get wiped by small arms before the big guns come to play. Consequently, I've found the extra killing power of gun drones a lot more useful than the 4++/5+++ shield drones bring to the table. Am I off base?
In general, I agree that Guns are better. But if the drone is sitting in the back guarding Broads, Shield makes more sense. For Fusion, every wound counts.
Sorry to just drop this in here but has anyone else seen that broadsides are considered "no longer available" on the games workshop store list? I didn't see any others but saw this as something interesting. Of course, I could be late to the party here so sorry if that's the case
OmniaGladius13 wrote: Sorry to just drop this in here but has anyone else seen that broadsides are considered "no longer available" on the games workshop store list? I didn't see any others but saw this as something interesting. Of course, I could be late to the party here so sorry if that's the case
It just means they are out of stock and awaiting a new production cycle. Just like every other time.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
OmniaGladius13 wrote: Sorry to just drop this in here but has anyone else seen that broadsides are considered "no longer available" on the games workshop store list? I didn't see any others but saw this as something interesting. Of course, I could be late to the party here so sorry if that's the case
It just means they are out of stock and awaiting a new production cycle. Just like every other time.
SJ
I can see that as a possibility, but there's kits marked, "currently out of stock", and then there is the broadside kit that is marked," no longer available". Unless it's just marked incorrectly, I don't see that being the case here. Of course I'm not watching their store every second of the day so I could be wrong.
Also this is the US store I was looking at.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 23:58:01
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~1900 | Imperial Knights: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 
~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: 
Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)
849 points/ 15 SWC 
