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Built a list that is ETC and ITC compatible. Expanding on my death onion concept. Right now it's at 1973, to give me a bit of flexibility based on what the official drone rules become. If sniper drones are no longer available as heavy slots, then the whole list has to be reworked, as there is nothing remotely close in cost in the heavy slot.

List has a Brigade, Battalion, and patrol for 15 command points. 1 is spent pre-game for the second relic. 31 drops.

"What the hell is first turn?"

T'au Sept Brigade
Commander - 4x CIB, JSJ relic
Fireblade - Warlord, Puretide engram relic, bonus AP on 6 to hit aura trait
Darkstrider

6x10 Strike Teams - 6x1 SMS turret (The death onion, can drop SMS for points elsewhere)

3x1 Firesight Marksmen (Cheap markers, fills elites)

3x4 Kroot Hounds (Cheap harassing units to try to engage shooting units, fills fast)

3x3 Sniper Drones (Combos with T'au stratagem for volume of firepower to try to put mortal wounds on units. Cheap heavy slot. Would like to find a place for a drone controller)

Sac'ea Sept Battalion
Commander - 4x Fusion (Gets more out of the single reroll than CIB, also more effective vs a handful of targets)
Ethereal (Buff is not sept based. Sac'ea increase his LD aura, making death onion fire warriors LD10. They cannot lose a model to morale until 6 casualties as they autopass on a 6. Gives out 6+++ to the onion.)

3x5 Strike teams - Markerlight sgt (Sac'ea reroll on markerlights)

3x1 Firesight Marksmen (Sac'ea reroll on markerlights)

2x3 Stealth Suits - Fusion blaster (Sac'ea reroll on melta)

Dal'yth sept patrol (Stop laughing, there's a reason)

Commander - 4x CIB (Use Dal'yth strat to allow him to also JSJ like the T'au commander)

1x10 Kroot (Because everyone loves kroot)

Ghostkeel - Ion Raker, 2x burst cannons (Torn between putting him with the stealth teams for possible use of their stratagem, or using him as area denial. With a possible -2 to hit and 2+ save, he could make for a fairly tough target vs shooting. Can easily swap him up to sac'ea, though. 8 pts for 4++ is definitely a strong choice.)

Idea is to use sac'ea for their 2cp strat and light up a bunch of units. Priority target #1 catches the D3 bonus marker stratagem, so it should be at 4, and then I can top it off. Should take 2-3 of my markerlights to get it to 5. Then I have 8-9 to get 4/5 more on the next priority target.

T'au sept just lays into it, using strat as soon as available. Once strat is up, all fire warriors are getting the AP bonus on to wounds of 5 or 6, and snipers get MW on 5/6. Because all the weapons are rapid fire, moving and shooting is a legitimate option. If something is hiding out of LOS, I can drop the 6 SMS and do the best I can.

T'au and Dal'yth commander can both be played relatively aggressively, dropping in and firing, then moving 6" to get out of LOS.

Stealth teams, kroot and ghostkeel are to help buffer against deep strikers, deny far objectives and generally just be skirmishing units.


My concerns -

I feel light on raw offensive power. I'd honestly like 5 CIB commanders, and am totally open to swapping the fusion CC for a CIB CC. If coldstars actually can take 4 weapons though, I feel like a 4 fusion coldstar is almost an autotake. Can advance 40" and fire fusion blasters into backfield arty.

The fire warriors damage, even with all buffs, is not spectacular past 15", though it is enough to pick up plenty of infantry units. Within 15, with 5 markers and the tau strat, it is a complete meat grinder. It is super comparable to ultramarines razorback, though I think the sheer number of shots makes it far more damage per point.

I may be heavy on markerlights. I wanted to be able to reliably 5 mark 2 targets a turn, but in doing so I may have sacrificed too much damage. The sac'ea detachment offers fairly limited damage potential, though the 6 units only constitute 189 points of my army (Not counting the 2 hqs, which I would have no matter the sept). I could swap Dal'yth to the battion, make an aux detachment for a commander, and turn the kroot hounds into pathfinder special weapon teams or something.

I will never get +1 to go first, though the list is designed so that there are no valuable units to alpha, just lots of cheap units which will force my opponent to heavily split firepower to avoid overkill, and risk not doing enough damage.

Ok, now that 3plusplus give us all the relics, strats, traits, guns, etc I can make a review of sorts


Lets start by comparing the different septs:

T'au:


Vior'la:


Dal'yth:


Sa'cra:


Bor'kan:


Farsight Enclaves:



End result, no clear winner because honestly none of them is all that good.
Dal'yth is the clear loser that nobody will ever play (a shame really, fluffwise they are awesome.)
FSE are a one trick pony, so are viorla (and their trick is overlapping x_x)
T'au is basically a random assortment of things that are decent on it's own, but have zero synergy (oh the irony)
Sac'ra is decent for some specific builds,
Bor'kan will we the go-to because it honestly the only one you can plan around, despite the sept trait being the only useful part of it.

Everything sept-spesific honestly isn't impressive, and the generic picks are better (and they are mostly not too hot either x_x)

The go-to relics are two generic ones, the PEN chip for CP farming, and the seismic destabilizer. the only issue is that you want both of them on "safe" HQs, and we don't really have any "safe" hqs. they are all either squishy, or aggressive.

Stratagems, are mostly situational and/or janky, but a few stand out.
The CA uplinked markerlight is a thing.
EMP grenade is a good way for a fireblade to help with a daemon engine or any other melee vehicle.
Nuroweb system jammer is useful against enemy shooty bomb type units, especially if they are using potentailly overheating guns.
Stims can be useful for your wounded superheavy to deliver one last punishment.
Branched NOVA, for obvious reasons
CNCN is useful for FSE crisis bombs with the man himself pulling out the trick (as his shooting isn't all that hot anyway)


I'll comment on the weapon and point changes later.

let me rephrase it so it better fits the actual situation:

T'au, Vior'la, Bork'an and Farsight enclaves are pretty good. Great Traits, Relics and stratagems.
The other two are a bit lackluster, but still playable if you enjoy the fluff.

Aeri wrote:
let me rephrase it so it better fits the actual situation:

T'au, Vior'la, Bork'an and Farsight enclaves are pretty good. Great Traits, Relics and stratagems.
The other two are a bit lackluster, but still playable if you enjoy the fluff.

This seems about right to me. And to be honest, it’s quite impressive that they’ve managed to make so many septs at least borderline useful, rather than having a stand-out winner. To me, Tau is probably the best bet still. Their bonus applies to every unit, so if you want to run an army featuring mix of different stuff then that seems like the way to go. And focussed fire is awesome. So is Darkstrider... longstrike not so much.

Shield generators now cost 8 points for ghostkeels. That seems like a good thing, and possibly a reason to run them with all-fusion - so you don’t need the ATS. Just under 200 points for the guy with two drones... which is a lot, but he is quite a tough cookie. Suffers badly to hit modifiers though. I just wonder if Tau need to be running units like Ghostkeels to have any realistic chance of grabbing objectives in maelstrom missions. The temptation to sit back and shoot is very strong, but not necessarily a great way to win games. Maybe the shield generator is a better call than the ATS even on Ionkeels - due to amounts of invulnerable saves there are in the meta at the moment. Or maybe that game I played recently against 9 flyrants has had too much influence on me.

Broadsides look pretty viable at around 130 points each. That actually seems quite interesting to me, because it makes Dalyth less dreadful. A static gunline might actually be a viable way to play Tau. That’s not to say it’ll be the best way to play them - obviously. You could well argue that broadsides benefit just as much from Tau or Borkan. I think velocity trackers might be the way to go for their support systems, to be able to shoot up Eldar, flyrants and stuff like that. If nothing else, broadsides look like a decent way to fill out heavy support slots in a brigade.

Having said all that, they do have to compete against Ionheads - which cost only a little more. The improved ion cannon is now far superior to the railgun - effectively firing D6 krak missiles. It hits on a 3+ and might be even happier to sit still to gain cover saves than the broadside. Drones can’t tank for it though. Unless I’m missing something, the ionheads makes the skyray look kind of ridiculous, because every hit it does is equivalent to the 6 one-shot missiles the skyray has.

I’m still quite tempted by FSE. Logic tells me not to be, but they seem like the most fun option, if not the best.

The ghostkeel as far as we know did not solve the problem that it features a heavy main weapon while short range and low BS
He's a though nut to crack, but he is extremely reliant on markerlight support, possibly too reliant-and the fusion loadout didn't really get better (only like 9 points cheaper and the guns are the same)
The CiR/burst is probably still for the best with the buffer raker. would need to run the numbers if the ATS is still a good idea on it though.
Shields on it could be nice. maybe. depends on if the meta tries killing them with quality fire or quantity fire.

Broadsides seems to be viable, yes. but they don't help Dal'yth at all, they are better off Bor'kan as you said. (or even T'au maybe)-and they could simply be set in cover and be done with it.

And yes, competing against Ionheads is...an issue.
The railgun is practically erased from the game as I doubt there is any scenario now that the railgun is the favorite. if you could have longstrike in Sac'ra THEN railheads could be viable, but otherwise its all ion all the time.
The rail line really needs to be updated. I know ion is the "new hotness", but seriusly no need to shove it up our throat in how its always the superior pick over any other option every time it comes up.

And yes, skyrays remain a joke.


Anyway, here's an amusing tidbit.
Any non-commander battlesuit of the T'au sept equipped with the CDS support system is actually more accurate on overwatch than on regular shots.

Overall things seems ok. I was expecting more things to drop in points. It seems like GW is very timid making Tau good. They seem to be pushing infantry and big suits.

Personally I am ok with this but I would have like crisis to drop 5 points or something. It's sad that the unit that got me playing Tau is just not very effective. I probably still run a unit of them but ghostkeels and riptides and much more points efficient.

Relics seem ok but puretide chip is the obvious winner. I'll probably run the super plasma with 3 ions for fun at least once.

Strategems are ok but really on the riptide and battlesuit repair stand out to me as always useful. This codex seems nice but it doesn't solve any of the main problems Tau had. I will play it but I am not terribly optimistic.

Right now to me it seams that tau is designed to be a mix of detachments, right now I'm thinking Borkan battalion as a base for your army.
Probably a Tau second battalion for darkstrider and longstrike and improved overwatch screen for firebase units.
Farsight vangaurd for a deepstrike bomb and the man himself, or dalyth vanguard for objective holding eggmen. Or maybe a dalyth for stormsurges

Don't give up on crisis just yet.
The CIB buff also buffed crisis. With the right markerlight support they can get rid of a 10 man termi squad in 1 shooting phase.

IMHO crisis are a very durable and reliable plattform.
Give them some drones aswell and they will get the job done.

What they are not are alphastrike assassins. (and thats good imho.) Although they CAN deal a suprising amount of damage once they mantastrike.

It's quite depressing how many of the stratagems are just the old wargear that GW took from us.

MSSS - old wargear
Failsafe Detonator - old wargear
Automated Repair System - old wargear
Neuroweb Jammer - old wargear
Repulsor field - old wargear
CnC Node - old wargear
EMP grenades - old wargear
Hunting Grounds - new
Branched Nova - new
Uplinked markerlight - new
Turret replacement - new
PDTR - old wargear
Extra relics - new but we used to be able to take multiple anyway
Ion Beam - new
B&C - new
Recon Sweep - new
Wall of Mirrors - new
Stims - old wargear
FF - new
Strike and Fade - JSJ, if you play one sept whose bonus is for staying still
Experimental Weapons - new
Positional Relay - old wargear
Hot Blooded - New but apparently Vior'la soldiers are less well trained and only shoot at the closest unit when ordered to fire in double time. You know, despite the best Fire Caste academy being on Vior'la.
Orbital marker - new
DZ clear - new

so 11/25 of our stratagems are just wargear that GW took away from us.


As for our signature systems, one of them is JSJ. An ability integral to crisis and stealth suits since the very beginning is now signature wargear only available on one unit in the whole army. It's as if Power Armour was suddenly limited to one HQ in a space marine army and the rest had to either be in scout armour, terminator armour or run around naked. Oh, and the naked ones are more expensive, too.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
It's quite depressing how many of the stratagems are just the old wargear that GW took from us.
so 11/25 of our stratagems are just wargear that GW took away from us.

That's how it's been with every army though. Guard lost "Mobile Command Vehicle" on Chimeras(something that used to be justification for the high-ish price point on that transport) and made it into a Stratagem as well. Some of the artillery rules that got added with Mont'ka that made those lists mean as all hell got reworded and brought into the Guard book as Stratagems as well.

You're not the first, you won't be the last.

Hot Blooded - New but apparently Vior'la soldiers are less well trained and only shoot at the closest unit when ordered to fire in double time. You know, despite the best Fire Caste academy being on Vior'la.

The fluff on the Stratagem description actually made a bit of sense there. It's the unit getting as close as possible to a specific enemy unit to unload on them.

As for our signature systems, one of them is JSJ. An ability integral to crisis and stealth suits since the very beginning is now signature wargear only available on one unit in the whole army. It's as if Power Armour was suddenly limited to one HQ in a space marine army and the rest had to either be in scout armour, terminator armour or run around naked. Oh, and the naked ones are more expensive, too.

What did Vectored Retro-Thrusters used to do?
I want to say that it was to grant Hit and Run but I'm not 100% sure and can't find my Tau books.
Yes, it sucks that it's a Relic. But you're still Fly units, meaning you can disengage at will from combat and still fire normally.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
It's quite depressing how many of the stratagems are just the old wargear that GW took from us.
so 11/25 of our stratagems are just wargear that GW took away from us.

That's how it's been with every army though. Guard lost "Mobile Command Vehicle" on Chimeras(something that used to be justification for the high-ish price point on that transport) and made it into a Stratagem as well. Some of the artillery rules that got added with Mont'ka that made those lists mean as all hell got reworded and brought into the Guard book as Stratagems as well.

You're not the first, you won't be the last.

Hot Blooded - New but apparently Vior'la soldiers are less well trained and only shoot at the closest unit when ordered to fire in double time. You know, despite the best Fire Caste academy being on Vior'la.

The fluff on the Stratagem description actually made a bit of sense there. It's the unit getting as close as possible to a specific enemy unit to unload on them.

As for our signature systems, one of them is JSJ. An ability integral to crisis and stealth suits since the very beginning is now signature wargear only available on one unit in the whole army. It's as if Power Armour was suddenly limited to one HQ in a space marine army and the rest had to either be in scout armour, terminator armour or run around naked. Oh, and the naked ones are more expensive, too.

What did Vectored Retro-Thrusters used to do?
I want to say that it was to grant Hit and Run but I'm not 100% sure and can't find my Tau books.
Yes, it sucks that it's a Relic. But you're still Fly units, meaning you can disengage at will from combat and still fire normally.

Vectored Retro Thrusters were hit and run but it was the jet pack unit type which gave our suits the ability to move in the assault phase even if not assaulting.

3 crisis with 9 cib is cheaper than 2 commanders with 8.

The bs4 can be offset by farsight strat and 5 markerlights.

Just fwiw

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Vectored Retro Thrusters were hit and run but it was the jet pack unit type which gave our suits the ability to move in the assault phase even if not assaulting.

I'm aware of what Tau suits were able to do before. Just didn't know VRT off the top of my head with any certainty.

I'm just saying that "Fly" seems to have been an attempt to make things a bit less "I can do something to you, but you can't do anything back to me".

I think the biggest thing is the waste of the jumppack keyword. Why put it on there if it does nothing. None of the strategems use it they all go off battlesuit. So why is it there?

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
3 crisis with 9 cib is cheaper than 2 commanders with 8.

The bs4 can be offset by farsight strat and 5 markerlights.

Just fwiw

So then include the price of the unit you used to get the 5 markerlight hits (Probably 10 Pathfinders) and that exceeds the cost of the commanders then.

you could use a smaller group and just use the markerlight stratagem, but then you're burning nearly 1/3rd of your command points on a suicide drop.

Wasn't there supposed to be this rumour about how we should clean the dust off our hammerheads/skyrays?

The way I see the leaks, a skyray is really purposeless, and the rail gun is just plain bad. Even tyrranofex gets to shoot 3 times with its own version, yet somehow the railgun gets 1 shot? come on.

Ion is nice tho.

I'm really excited about the rail rifle broadsides. Though a lot more expensive than equivalent enemy units (looking at you, hive guard!), they at least have 2 shots with good range, str, ap and damage.

I will agree with most people that fire warriors is the way to go. Weirdly enough there is no leak about how much the devilfish costs.

Devilfish base cost is down. Its112 with stuff so a small reduction but nice.

 FirePainter wrote:
Devilfish base cost is down. Its112 with stuff so a small reduction but nice.

Whaaaaa! This is not cheap :O It's a transport for crying out loud! 112 is dangerously close to tank points! Like actual tank.

 FirePainter wrote:
I think the biggest thing is the waste of the jumppack keyword. Why put it on there if it does nothing. None of the strategems use it they all go off battlesuit. So why is it there?

I'm wondering if maybe the reason behind it is so they can add campaign/battlezone specific rules later on down the road.

I could see stuff where "Fly" units can't operate unless they also have the "Jet Pack" keyword or weapon tweaks down the road where AA stuff can lock better onto things that have Vehicle, Jetbike, or Jet Pack with Fly.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Wasn't there supposed to be this rumour about how we should clean the dust off our hammerheads/skyrays?

The way I see the leaks, a skyray is really purposeless, and the rail gun is just plain bad. Even tyrranofex gets to shoot 3 times with its own version, yet somehow the railgun gets 1 shot? come on.

Ion is nice tho.

I'm really excited about the rail rifle broadsides. Though a lot more expensive than equivalent enemy units (looking at you, hive guard!), they at least have 2 shots with good range, str, ap and damage.

I will agree with most people that fire warriors is the way to go. Weirdly enough there is no leak about how much the devilfish costs.

Depends if there is a special rule for them we haven't seen yet, The Hammerhead entry was surprisingly sparse given that it only really touched upon longstrike's battlesuit rulewise.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
3 crisis with 9 cib is cheaper than 2 commanders with 8.

The bs4 can be offset by farsight strat and 5 markerlights.

Just fwiw

Not by enough, and not once you've paid for that markerlight support.

However they do have really nice "anti-anything" firepower. Each one on its own has 50% more dakka than a cyclic ion blaster, and the drop zone clear stratagem will prevent them from overheating.

They have to compete with missilesides though. A unit of these, with ATS, Kauyon and focused fire, will hurt things a great deal. I'm not yet sure if I prefer missilesides - which seem to really want an expensive ATS and the Borkan trait, or railsides. Railsides don't need an ATS and can therefore take another support system (such as a VT, for only 2 points) and are quite a lot cheaper. Focused fire with rail rifles (heavy or not) will actually result in a fair number of mortal wounds added onto the target.

I think that the codex might have swung the balance back in favour of long-ranged units, rather than fusion and CIBs to kill everything. I guess we'll see about that.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Wasn't there supposed to be this rumour about how we should clean the dust off our hammerheads/skyrays?

The way I see the leaks, a skyray is really purposeless, and the rail gun is just plain bad. Even tyrranofex gets to shoot 3 times with its own version, yet somehow the railgun gets 1 shot? come on.

Ion is nice tho.

I'm really excited about the rail rifle broadsides. Though a lot more expensive than equivalent enemy units (looking at you, hive guard!), they at least have 2 shots with good range, str, ap and damage.

I will agree with most people that fire warriors is the way to go. Weirdly enough there is no leak about how much the devilfish costs.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2018/03/tau-leak-stratagems-warlord-traits-signature-systems-point-values/
80 pts

1 of the other benefits jet-pack gave in 6th and 7th was relentless, it was a "stable firing platform" as opposed to jump packs which were all speed and charging. But suits can't advance and shoot w/o penalty w/o marker support. so lost that part too

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
Devilfish base cost is down. Its112 with stuff so a small reduction but nice.

Whaaaaa! This is not cheap :O It's a transport for crying out loud! 112 is dangerously close to tank points! Like actual tank.

Well a rhino is 72 points with a storm bolter and carries 10 @ 10 T7 3+ wounds while a devilfish is 112 for 8 S5 shots and carries 12 @ 12 T7 3+ wounds. Seems reasonable to me

 FirePainter wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
Devilfish base cost is down. Its112 with stuff so a small reduction but nice.

Whaaaaa! This is not cheap :O It's a transport for crying out loud! 112 is dangerously close to tank points! Like actual tank.

Well a rhino is 72 points with a storm bolter and carries 10 @ 10 T7 3+ wounds while a devilfish is 112 for 8 S5 shots and carries 12 @ 12 T7 3+ wounds. Seems reasonable to me

Never said I consider the rhino to be cheap either

I just look at my models and I try to find out a way to build a 2000 out of it. With the new point reductions I'm afraid I will have to purchase some more. In short I own:

Commander
Ethereal
Cadre Fireblade

24 Fire warriors + 2 Devilfish
6 XV-8 suits

4 Piranhas
8 pathfinders

1 x Riptide

3 x Broadsides
2 x Hammerhead/Skyray

 FirePainter wrote:

Well a rhino is 72 points with a storm bolter and carries 10 @ 10 T7 3+ wounds while a devilfish is 112 for 8 S5 shots and carries 12 @ 12 T7 3+ wounds. Seems reasonable to me

I mean, you don't see many loyalist Rhinos. You see some Chaos Rhinos because they can carry Berzerkers. That's the big issue with transports -- how worthwhile they are tends to depend on how useful their transport capacity is. Wave Serpents are really expensive but Eldar have a bunch of infantry which are really, really good except for their short range and fragility. Devilfish are likely to suffer because Fire Warriors are reasonably durable and have great range.

All valid points and I think just taking more fire warriors and broadside will be better than taking fish but I do feel they are comparable to the rhino even if they aren't going to be used.

A Devilfish also has FLY, which is a huge difference. For the first time in years, Devilfish seem worthwhile.

Regarding the new big leak, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. I need to digest the info more, but it sounds like we'll be a mid-tier army, which is fine. Borkan will keep us alive on the competitive scene with Commanders, Drones, Y'Vahras, Fire Warriors, and Pathfinders as our stand-out units. Strategems are poor overall with a couple that'll get used regularly. Relics are okay at best, but at least it's free stuff.

I'm massively disappointed that Stormsurges and Crisis Suits aren't discounted more. I love Fire Warrior spam and am thrilled it's going to be viable. However, I do wish suits were a better option without extensive support. Codependence is not synergy.

 FirePainter wrote:
All valid points and I think just taking more fire warriors and broadside will be better than taking fish but I do feel they are comparable to the rhino even if they aren't going to be used.

Weird thing is that they could be really useful carrying breacher teams around, But with the new septs, we can have striker fire warriors with 42" range. That's 21" for double tap range and then you can use the devilfish points for more striker teams. At which point, why really play breachers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MilkmanAl wrote:
A Devilfish also has FLY, which is a huge difference. For the first time in years, Devilfish seem worthwhile.

Regarding the new big leak, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. I need to digest the info more, but it sounds like we'll be a mid-tier army, which is fine. Borkan will keep us alive on the competitive scene with Commanders, Drones, Y'Vahras, Fire Warriors, and Pathfinders as our stand-out units. Strategems are poor overall with a couple that'll get used regularly. Relics are okay at best, but at least it's free stuff.

I'm massively disappointed that Stormsurges and Crisis Suits aren't discounted more. I love Fire Warrior spam and am thrilled it's going to be viable. However, I do wish suits were a better option without extensive support. Codependence is not synergy.

I really really wanted skyrays to be useful. As it stands now.... I mean did they even look at the rules for the seeker missiles? How on earth does a weapon like this even cost points, let alone be the only weapon that your heavy support can hold?

Yeah Breacher could fun in fishes but strikes just put out more damage. And skyrays rules are just depression incarnate.

 FirePainter wrote:
Yeah Breacher could fun in fishes but strikes just put out more damage. And skyrays rules are just depression incarnate.

The 6 to hit rule in seeker missiles has really zero reason to exist. It's a one use only weapon. Just let it fire ffs. It's not even that destructive or anything. I really cannot understand the reasoning behind this.