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So what sept is everyone making their coldstar commander?

Vior'la to move 40" a turn and fire at full BS. Doesn't do much for your supporting firewarriors though accept for hot blooded.

Farsight enclave for fusion blade and close up wound reroll's of 1 (may be amazing on CIBs). Other than that, nothing special.

Bork'an just to make your other units better, no bonus for your coldstar.

The main reason for adding a comander to a borkan brigade would be to give him the puretide chip and have him hang with the firewarriors with full plasma he should put a dent in any armoured deepstrikers and that reroll should help with getting those first markerlights to stick. Though if your light on points no reason a cadre fireblade can't have it.

Is there any reason they made the puretide reroll once per battle rather than once per turn? It's only a single dice reroll, with limited applications (only to hit, wound or damage) with limited range (only within 6" of a unit with the chip). Just seems pretty weak to me.

Once per turn would have put it into the auto take category. For everyone but tau sept.
Right now its more for CP's than anything else but really the vectored manovering thrusters will be most peoples go to for tau sept. Which is also where most of the charictors live.

I think you either want really destructive guns, like fusion blasters and CIBs, on your commander - or nothing much at all. There’s a case for a commander with a dc and shield who just exists to call kauyon and make broadsides reroll to wound. That probably isn’t a great use of your one commander per detachment though.

I think it’s entirely within the fluff to have Tau from different septs in one army. The expansion fleets are formed of everyone in the empire. I’m not sure it’s a great idea, but it’s legitimate.

Well got my first game scheduled with the codex this week. Going to do a fairly simple list with lots of fire warriors and some big suits.



So I will spend a command point to get the puretide chip, I'm just debating where to put it. I know the reroll would be good for the fusion-mander but I am tempted to put it on a fireblade for safety. Otherwise its a simple list, lots of triple tap warriors and big suits to handle other things. Stealth provide some deep strike protection and enough markers to help out. What do you all think?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Is there any reason they made the puretide reroll once per battle rather than once per turn? It's only a single dice reroll, with limited applications (only to hit, wound or damage) with limited range (only within 6" of a unit with the chip). Just seems pretty weak to me.

I mean, it's already one of the best relics in the whole game. Every Guard list takes the worse Kurov's Aquila, and basically everyone would be thrilled to be able to pay 1 or 2 extra CP for the PEN. It expects to make its cost back in CP regeneration alone if 6/12 stratagems get used over the course of the game, and then on top of that you get what's effectively an extra free CP from the re-roll as long as the Fireblade or Ethereal with it is within 6" of a big gun.

Farsight Enclave suits with CIBs seem pretty good, don’t they? Each one can fire 9 S8 shots when they drop in, with no risk of overheating - thanks to the stratagem.

There’s even a case - maybe - for using Farsight with them. He can use the CNC node stratagem to make a unit reroll to wound. Doing that would potentially give you an awful lot of rerolls.

Each one is of course a lot of points - 96. But as an alpha strike these guys dropping in look pretty credible.

 FirePainter wrote:
Well got my first game scheduled with the codex this week. Going to do a fairly simple list with lots of fire warriors and some big suits.

Spoiler:

Bork'an Battalion
Coldstar w/ 3 ion & relic plasma
Fireblade
3x8 fire warriors
Burstide w/ ats & tl
2x missilesides 2/ ats

Bork'an Battalion
Coldstar w/ quad fusion
Fireblade
3x8 fire warriors
ghostkeel w/ ion &burst ats & tl
2x5 pathfinders w/ pulse drone

Vior'la Vanguard
Coldstar w/ 4 ion
2x3 stealth teams
2 firesight marksmen

So I will spend a command point to get the puretide chip, I'm just debating where to put it. I know the reroll would be good for the fusion-mander but I am tempted to put it on a fireblade for safety. Otherwise its a simple list, lots of triple tap warriors and big suits to handle other things. Stealth provide some deep strike protection and enough markers to help out. What do you all think?

The list looks pretty similar to what I've been considering; Bork'an firebase with Vior'la forward elements. However, I've been thinking of running the Ghostkeel with the fusion collider and switching the ats for a shield generator now that those have dropped in points. Hoping to create a distraction (models size, fusion weaponry and infiltrate should help) to take some heat off of the broadsides while sporting a negative hit modifier and decent invuln. Think it might pay off? Other than that I'm expecting Missilesides, Burstides and a commander with Kauyon/through unity devastation to be a pretty nasty combination!
Probably wouldn't put the chip on a Coldstar, sure you get more value out of the reroll, but a coldstar with four guns is pretty suicidal and the chips main draw is not the reroll but CP generation for which it needs to be on the board.

I guess coldstars CAN be suicide units, but that's poor unit management, in my opinion. You really need to use your drones well to keep them alive. At the very least, force your opponent to use a disproportionate amount of firepower in taking them out. Use their fantastic mobility to kite around to favorable positions. Barring some serious weirdness, you opponent should never be able to target your Commanders without clearing a fair amount of chaff first.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I guess coldstars CAN be suicide units, but that's poor unit management, in my opinion. You really need to use your drones well to keep them alive. At the very least, force your opponent to use a disproportionate amount of firepower in taking them out. Use their fantastic mobility to kite around to favorable positions. Barring some serious weirdness, you opponent should never be able to target your Commanders without clearing a fair amount of chaff first.

My problem is currently I am having a hard time finding points for drones. All the lists I am coming up with are using more fire warriors instead of drones. I agree with your points but I am going to try using stealth suits and ghostkeels as my target blockers for commanders. I'm sure after a few games my riptide and y'varha will miss the drone support and I'll put them back in.

 FirePainter wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
I guess coldstars CAN be suicide units, but that's poor unit management, in my opinion. You really need to use your drones well to keep them alive. At the very least, force your opponent to use a disproportionate amount of firepower in taking them out. Use their fantastic mobility to kite around to favorable positions. Barring some serious weirdness, you opponent should never be able to target your Commanders without clearing a fair amount of chaff first.

My problem is currently I am having a hard time finding points for drones. All the lists I am coming up with are using more fire warriors instead of drones. I agree with your points but I am going to try using stealth suits and ghostkeels as my target blockers for commanders. I'm sure after a few games my riptide and y'varha will miss the drone support and I'll put them back in.

I think that my approach with a coldstar would be to give it vectored thrusters. If it can fire at 18” and then move another 6” away, it ought to be pretty safe.

I actually really like the idea of using our stealth units as Commander protection. It's expensive, but it's also potentially really effective and frustrating for your opponent. Ghostkeels, in particular seem like a serious pain to push through. -2 to hit and. 4++ on T6 W10 is pretty freaking durable, to say the least, and it eliminates the option of clearing drone rubbish with small arms before hitting the commander. I may give that a shot.

anybody else thinking that Sa'cea is actually pretty damn good?

MilkmanAl wrote:
I actually really like the idea of using our stealth units as Commander protection. It's expensive, but it's also potentially really effective and frustrating for your opponent. Ghostkeels, in particular seem like a serious pain to push through. -2 to hit and. 4++ on T6 W10 is pretty freaking durable, to say the least, and it eliminates the option of clearing drone rubbish with small arms before hitting the commander. I may give that a shot.

Agreed, this might create some nice synergy. A single Keel or even Stealth team might not have the shots to pop a tank, but once they work as landing pads for Coldstars they go from an annoyance to something the opponent really has to consider taking out unless he wants to eat another round of close range quad fusion.
Is there any merit to a non coldstar commander now? Thought of grabbing a regular one with missile pods to hang back and allow my backline to benefit from Through Unity and a first turn Kauyon without losing his firepower... but I feel like after that first turn a coldstar with ion or Fusion would just do so much more.

Aeri wrote:
anybody else thinking that Sa'cea is actually pretty damn good?

For rail weapons I agree, but then almost all of those just don't seem to stack up against the alternatives :(
The +1 LD is nice but hardly game changing.

Sa'cea could be nice with railheads but if you are running hammerheads you want longstrike so that means t'au Sept. Might be better with railsides and fusion keels. Or small stealth teams with a fusion included.

Sa'cea is a reasonable buff even for units that fire more shots. Ion cannons are 3 shots always now, right? A BS3+ Ion Cannon expects 23% more hits with Sa'cea. This is a bit stronger than re-rolling 1s.

5 BS4+ shots (such as a min Strike Team at long range or Pathfinders firing Markerlights) get 19.4% more hits -- this is still better than re-rolling 1s. Obviously Pathfinders with just a few rifles get a lot out of it.

Likewise Sniper Drones and Ghostkeels get a significant benefit.

It's just a nice all-rounder trait. It also plays pretty nicely with re-rolling 1s for BS4+ models. I think really the only tempting units that you're not pretty happy to have it on would be big Strike Teams or small Strike Teams near a Fireblade.

So, I thought I'd compile a list of which sept is best for each unit, perhaps to facilitate building efficient "Tau Soup" lists. These are my opinions and many will disagree, but these are what my gut tells me would be efficient sept choices for these units. For obvious reasons I'm not mentioning the named characters as they are from specific septs. I'm basing my opinion on the sept tenets and their unique stratagems and warlord traits. My hope is to stimulate some discussion, not start any fights, so play nice guys.
HQ:
Commander (XV8 or XV85): Any, depending on loadout and the rest of the list.
Commander (Coldstar): Farsight Enclaves
Cadre Fireblade: Bor'kan
Ethereal: Any
Troops:
Strike Team: Bor'kan
Breacher Team: Sa'cea, Farsight Enclaves
Kroot Carnivore Squad: Dal'yth (situational, but the only thing they can possibly benefit from)
Elites:
XV8 Crisis (or Bodyguard) Team: Farsight Enclaves
XV104 Riptide: Bor'kan
XV95 Ghostkeel: Sa'cea for Fusion, Bor'kan for CIR
XV25 Stealth Team: Sa'cea or T'au
Firesight Marksman: Bor'kan
Kroot Shaper: Dal'yth(like Kroot above)
Krootox: Dal'yth (like Kroot above)
Fast Attack:
TX4 Piranha: Sa'cea for Fusion, T'au for Burst
Tactical Drones: Any
Pathfinders: Sa'cea, Bor'kan
Kroot Hounds: Dal'yth (like Kroot)
Vespid Stingwings: Dal'yth (like Kroot)
Heavy Support:
TX7 Hammerhead: Sa'cea, T'au (for Longstrike)
TX78 Sky Ray: Sa'cea
XV88 Broadside Team: Sa'cea for HRR, Bor'kan for HYMP
Sniper Drones: Bor'kan, Sa'cea
Flyer:
AX3 Razorshark: Sa'cea, Farsight Enclaves (possibly if it can fly close enough)
AX39 Sun Shark: Sa'cea
Dedicated Transport:
TY7 Devilfish: Any, depending on what is riding inside
Lord of War:
KV128 Stormsurge: T'au, Sa'cea, Dal'yth (if anchored)

I'm thinking some combination of Bor'kan and Sa'cea might be the best way to go, possibly with some T'au sprinkled in. Interestingly a Stormsurge might benefit from the Dal'yth tenet since it won't move that much (if it has the Pulse Driver Cannon). 2+ saves on that thing is pretty spicy! Of course, many heavy weapons will still put you on the 4++ (you did take the shield generator right?), so it's probably still better to go with T'au for the mighty overwatch potential. Also of note, nothing particularly benefits from Vior'la over other traits. Crisis suits might be an edge case, though, as advancing and firing their assault weapons without penalty could be nice. Too bad their stratagem doesn't benefit battlesuits (not that Crisis are any good as they stand), but it could help Breachers get some serious teeth if they are trying to pop something big. Dal'yth looks to be the big loser though unless you are running a totally static gunline. Even then, Bor'kan is probably a better bet as you will want the extra range.

I'd say if you are running stealth suits without fusion vior'la is a good choice. Also coldstars do benefit from vior'la as well.

Overall a really good list. I agree bork'an is probably best for competitive play.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

You got the commander model because it looked snazzy.

Guilty

it's why I got mine. Zero intent to get anymore Tau. I just like that model. I was going to build it as a Coldstar even before the Fusion Blaster became an option. I like the Airborne Commander with a ton of speed. Now I just need to get another Fusion Blaster and I will be set.

I just impulse bought a coldstar for $40 on ebay. It will be my only tau model.

If I'd put my 2 cents in, a few things in your list are off.

Fusion coldstar are probably best as Vior'la (though bladed FSE is also good)
Breachers should be FSE or Vior'la, not Sa'cra
Riptide can honestly be Dal'yth.
Firesight should probably be Sa'cra
Stealth suits and small crisis teams are pretty good for Vior'la
Gun drones are probably best for T'au.
Sniper drones are obviously Borkan, not Sa'cra
Razorshark is FSE or Vior'la, not Sa'cra


Honestly, the biggest issue with Vior'la isn't that the trait isn't good for a wide array of units (it really is), its that markerlights can get the same benefit anyway...(bad warlord trait, unimpressive relic and a stratagem that really ins't good for tau infantry also don't help Vior'la)

Sa'cra suffers from not knowing its own tactics. half of it support large squads, the other half supports MSU. (also, relic is bad, warlord trait is basically useless as you got enough LD with Sa'cra that moral is virtually a non-thing, and the stratagem is questionable.)

Viorla is ok with a specialised army designed to make the most of it.

Sacea is a tricky one. On the face of it, a reroll per turn is great for a lot of the heavy units, especially hammerheads. But as with Viorla, it suffers a lot from just being duplicated by the effects of markerlights.

To be fair to both though, not needing so many markerlights in the first place is a good thing. Markerlights cost points, which could instead be spent on more guns. I know this is a blindingly obvious statement, but lots of people talk like you can assume markerlight hits on every target you fire at - which obviously you cannot do.

I reckon Tau is a good all-round sept. One of the reasons for this is that the special characters. Longstrike in particular seems good as he buffs Ionheads - which are already a very strong unit. Darkstrider is cool too - letting infantry fall back and shoot is a really big deal. And the Tau relic letting a commander move 6" after shooting is also great on a coldstar - which is of course a really good unit. Oh and focused fire also looks excellent - especially for the quite large numbers of units (sniper drones and anything rail-related) that do mortal wounds on a 6+ to wound.

So, for me, Sac'ea screams min supreme command detachment of 3 Fireblades.

Their free re-rolls allow you to pretty much guarantee you getting the markerlight shot off, alongside the potential stratagem usage if you come up 1 short on a few units. You also can't argue much about getting 1CP for 126 points.

Aslong as they haven't made markerlights (sept) aswell that would be really bad.

Yes, but then you lose the aura benefit, because it will only apply to other Sa'cra warriors.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yes, but then you lose the aura benefit, because it will only apply to other Sa'cra warriors.

I agree, but, at that point you aren't taking the detachment for the aura, you are taking it for the high access to a lot of markerlights and the additional CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:
Aslong as they haven't made markerlights (sept) aswell that would be really bad.

I guess - but i'd be incredibly surprised if they made that move. Worth considering and keeping an eye out for though - i don't remember hearing anything either way in any of the reviews.

Kdash wrote:
So, for me, Sac'ea screams min supreme command detachment of 3 Fireblades.

Their free re-rolls allow you to pretty much guarantee you getting the markerlight shot off, alongside the potential stratagem usage if you come up 1 short on a few units. You also can't argue much about getting 1CP for 126 points.

Well you can have a battalion for 189 points if you really want CPs, with two fireblades and 3x5 fire warriors. And fireblades hit on a 2+, so they don't need the reroll really.

I think there's a pretty strong case for taking multiple battalions. Fire warriors are decent, and give you very cheap troop units. So for instance I was thinking of adding a farsight enclave vanguard detachment to get some crisis suits, but it might be better to just add a battalion. I could have my unit of suits, a commander to go with them and various troop options - any of which would be useful. I'm thinking 2x5 (or 2x6) breachers in a fish, plus a unit of 10 kroot. And maybe an ethereal because his abilities work on everyone, regardless of sept, so I can stand him in my firebase... if I have one.

Fire warriors at 5 models per unit is pure madness. Even cheaper troops than cultists, AND with the ability to actually be useful? Paint me interested. Cheap fireblades buffing the fire warriors and giving reliable markerlights is also very welcome, I think for their points they are extremely useful in any list. And all the CP will be most welcome too.

Only thing is that I don't foresee ever playing first with this kind of list


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

 Bryan01 wrote:
The skyray has a velocity tracker standard now. Pretty sure it didn’t before? Does that make it viable..

Makes it frickin strong against fliers. They are all T7 anyway, so you have six missiles hitting on 3+ and wounding on 3+ turn 1, should down even a stormraven or reduce it to insignificance.

Also 2+ against anything that flies and doesn't have a to hit modifier means that it will get rekt as all you need is two markerlights on target and you are basically auto-hitting with all 6 missiles.

One more reason I consider the Skyray a viable choice now. Sure, it won't be doing that much past turn 1, but it still has the markerlighting power of two Firesight Marksmen (so great for starting markerlight chains in addition to your Fireblades) and will either be able to support the backfield with SMS or charge and block anything that threatens nearby objectives or Broadsides/Riptides/Stormsurges/other pricy backfield units.

Am I missing something? Don't the seeker missiles state that they only hit on 6's regardless of any modifiers? How come the skyray is suddenly useful? Let me know because it's really my favorite unit in the whole army .

Seeker missile hit normal if you have 2 markerlights on a target. Still doesn't make the skyrays useful since once you blow the first turn load you are 100ish points for 2 markerlights and sms. If there had been a strategem to rearm a units seeker missile skyrays would have been amazing. As such I don't think they are worth the points.

It's hard to justify sky rays. Let's try...

A velocity tracker is a great piece of kit for 2 points. Tons of stuff has the fly keyword - not just flyers. Most of that stuff doesn't actually have a "hard to hit" style rule, so the firespray will hit on a 2+. It has a couple of markerlights on its own, which will hit on a 2+ at those targets, so often it'll be able to fire its missiles unsupported.

There's also the fact that a massive alpha strike is really useful. For example if you're up against dark angels you'll really want to kill their darkshroud, and a skyray is pretty likely to do that in one go, leaving the rest of your stuff free to shoot other targets.

There are many downsides though, obviously. I don't think skyrays compare at all well with ionheads now, which cost about the same amount and get +1 to hit against everything if Longstrike is there.