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One thing that might have gone under the radar is that Darkstriders debuff got a bit better.

Used to be -1T but is +1 to wound now

High CP - 2000 Point List

Brigade

HQ (3) - 258
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Coldstar (90), 4 Fusion Blasters (84) - 174

Troops (6) - 228
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38

Elites (3) - 335
Ghostkeel (82), CIR (39), 2 BC (16), SG (8) TL (12), 157
Ghostkeel (82), CIR (39), 2 BC (16), SG (8) TL (12), 157
Farsight Marksman (21) - 21

Fast Attack (3) - 120
5 Pathfinders (5), 5 marker lights (3) - 40
5 Pathfinders (5), 5 marker lights (3) - 40
5 Pathfinders (5), 5 marker lights (3) - 40

Heavy Support (3) - 408
Broadside (60), HRR (35), SMS (30), TL ( 6), SM (5) - 136
Broadside (60), HRR (35), SMS (30), TL ( 6), SM (5) - 136
Broadside (60), HRR (35), SMS (30), TL ( 6), SM (5) - 136

Subtotal: 1349

Battalion 1
HQ (2) - 216
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Coldstar (90), 4 Fusion Blasters (84) - 174

Troops (3) - 114
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38

Subtotal: 330

Battalion 2
HQ (2) - 216
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Coldstar (90), 4 Fusion Blasters (84) - 174

Troops (3) - 114
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38

Subtotal: 330

Total: 2009

High Markerlight count (32)
High CP (18)
3 Quad Fusion Coldstars
Many MSU

Any suggestions?

wighti wrote:
One thing that might have gone under the radar is that Darkstriders debuff got a bit better.

Used to be -1T but is +1 to wound now

That's bloody marvelous. Stack it with the stratagem for +2 to wound. Profit.

notredameguy10 wrote:
High CP - 2000 Point List

Brigade

HQ (3) - 258
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Coldstar (90), 4 Fusion Blasters (84) - 174

Troops (6) - 228
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38

Elites (3) - 335
Ghostkeel (82), CIR (39), 2 BC (16), SG (8) TL (12), 157
Ghostkeel (82), CIR (39), 2 BC (16), SG (8) TL (12), 157
Farsight Marksman (21) - 21

Fast Attack (3) - 120
5 Pathfinders (5), 5 marker lights (3) - 40
5 Pathfinders (5), 5 marker lights (3) - 40
5 Pathfinders (5), 5 marker lights (3) - 40

Heavy Support (3) - 408
Broadside (60), HRR (35), SMS (30), TL ( 6), SM (5) - 136
Broadside (60), HRR (35), SMS (30), TL ( 6), SM (5) - 136
Broadside (60), HRR (35), SMS (30), TL ( 6), SM (5) - 136

Subtotal: 1349

Battalion 1
HQ (2) - 216
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Coldstar (90), 4 Fusion Blasters (84) - 174

Troops (3) - 114
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38

Subtotal: 330

Battalion 2
HQ (2) - 216
Cadre Fireblade (39), Markerlight (3) - 42
Coldstar (90), 4 Fusion Blasters (84) - 174

Troops (3) - 114
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38
5 Fire Warriors (35) w/ 1 ML (3) - 38

Subtotal: 330

Total: 2009

High Markerlight count (32)
High CP (18)
3 Quad Fusion Coldstars
Many MSU

Any suggestions?

-What sept(s) are you running?
-I personally think drones are better than the Pathfinders, but, it does mean you'd have to find space for a Drone Controller somewhere.
-Not too keen on markerlights in Fire Warrior squads myself, simply because of how the shooting phase works. Each time you want to fire one of the MLs at a target, you also have to fire the rest of the normal weapons. This means you'll often be firing several squads at targets without the benefits of markerlights - and rarely gaining the benefit of the +1 to hit at 5 stacks.
-Do you really need the 2nd battalion? I get the impression it's only there for the extra commander. If it is just there for the extra commander, i'd drop it for a supreme command and run 1 extra Fireblade. With the points saved you could pick up a few extra things, like drones or a couple of bigger squads.
-If you are going to be relying on stacking 5 markerlights each turn for the broadsides and ghostkeels, i'd prob drop the Target Locks. You'll gain the same benefit from the 4th markerlight. Personal preference of course, but i've dropped it now myself.

So what is the math for markerlights nowadays, with the various point costs (per one, per deployment i.e. FW as a bolt on etc. so 3pt/ml *may* be misleading) as well as strats and other bonuses.

So one could run lots of markerlights or just get extra dudes. The counter point is that you can't just bring more suits/tides/surgers etc.

Thoughts?

 Fenris-77 wrote:

wighti wrote:
One thing that might have gone under the radar is that Darkstriders debuff got a bit better.

Used to be -1T but is +1 to wound now

That's bloody marvelous. Stack it with the stratagem for +2 to wound. Profit.

Would be interesting with rail rifles for 4+ moral wounds. 71 pt for 3 rail rifles might not be worth it though.

Razerous wrote:
So what is the math for markerlights nowadays, with the various point costs (per one, per deployment i.e. FW as a bolt on etc. so 3pt/ml *may* be misleading) as well as strats and other bonuses.

So one could run lots of markerlights or just get extra dudes. The counter point is that you can't just bring more suits/tides/surgers etc.

Thoughts?

I’m not sure you need loads of markerlights, but you need some. All these ion weapons will want to be rerolling 1s to hit. Since ion rifles are now pretty good, I think some pathfinders with ion rifles and markerlights in a tidewall structure of some kind make sense.

The buff to Darkstrider is interesting - and a bit odd to be honest. This guy was always pretty good, so he didn’t really need to be improved. But yeah a unit of 12 fire warriors will be happy to get +1 to wound, I’m sure. That’s on top of letting fire warriors fall back and shoot - which seems like the main benefit he brings. And he can jog forwards towards the relic, if someone needs to go and fetch it.

Rail rifle squads at 30"

Normal 57 ppd
+1 to wound 47 ppd
+2 to wound 40 ppd

double tap range

N 28
+1 23
+2 20

I'd say the increased range of ion overcharge makes up for the damage advantage of rails at half range.

Sniper drones can do similar damage as the rail rifles past 15" to high invuln targets, while being able to hide before coming out to shoot. Even with the + to wound, neither is particularly great in this roll.

Honestly, mass fire warrior shooting is flexible and relatively powerful, especially when combined with through unity warlord trait. It is more efficient than a lot of other choices we have, simply because it's so cheap. CIB/Fusion commanders and Ghostkeels are probably our heavy lifters, but fire warriors are our bread and butter.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:

wighti wrote:
One thing that might have gone under the radar is that Darkstriders debuff got a bit better.

Used to be -1T but is +1 to wound now

That's bloody marvelous. Stack it with the stratagem for +2 to wound. Profit.

Would be interesting with rail rifles for 4+ moral wounds. 71 pt for 3 rail rifles might not be worth it though.

It depends on your build IMO - sometimes you're filling out slots and have some points left, at which point the rail rifles might be good. For casual play it's maybe more useful because you can take them when you know the mortal wounds will be particularly useful (against Custodes for example).

Stacking for +2 does sound cool, but also I think I can see myself using those two buffs separately as often as I stack them. Getting +1 to W on two targets, potentially over multiple turns, sounds like a winning idea, especially for lists that focus on volume dakka over specific AT. Fire Warriors, when buffed, can threaten almost anything if they're getting +1 to W (with enough dakka anyway).

Is anyone else of the opinion that seeker missiles going from mortal wound (no save except FNP) to s8 ap-2 d6 is potentially a downgrade? The potential for more damage certainly exists, but even versus a SM they still have a 5+ armor save, or real big bads still have 3/4++ on a 3+ to wound or worse, so doing d6 (average 3.5) doesn't really matter when 1/2 of that is ignored by saves or reducing chance by rolling to wound in the first place.

I don't see it as a downgrade, but all the hype around Skyrays is bunk, in my estimation. Under ideal conditions (5 markers), you're getting a devastating alpha strike that causes around 9 wounds to a T7/3+ platform. Awesome. So you ALMOST killed that Razorback with your 150pt model which is now a really expensive and durable Pathfinder unit.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I don't see it as a downgrade, but all the hype around Skyrays is bunk, in my estimation. Under ideal conditions (5 markers), you're getting a devastating alpha strike that causes around 9 wounds to a T7/3+ platform. Awesome. So you ALMOST killed that Razorback with your 150pt model which is now a really expensive and durable Pathfinder unit.

I think there's something to be said for a 150 point model that really effectively does damage to another roughly equivalent model all at once on one turn. It's a tempo unit, giving up the sustained damage of the competition (ionhead) for turn one "burst" damage.

I don't think it works in every list, or in every meta, but if we start to see for example something like a Stormraven meta again, or deathstars reliant on psychic powers to boost up their defenses, I can see tossing in a skyray or two as a dedicated not too expensive counter.

When it comes to rando marker lights you slap on Devilfish or whatever, I see it as a straight upgrade from before. I often see hunter killers included on imperial vehicles just to add a bit of threat to an otherwise innocuous transport, and the same principle applies here. A nice one turn punch at a long range.

I think I'd rather roll with a twin HBC Hammerhead, which will push about the same amount of damage - slightly less - every turn for 40-50pts more and is also way, way better against anything T6 or lower.
edit: that's all assuming the Hammerhead HBC gets brought up to speed with the codex version.

I'm psyched about all this Ghostkeel talk. The CIR option seems really amazing now with 6 shots, and the shield generator discount is a monstrous buff. I like the idea of going as cheap as possible on them with a CIR and burst cannons, but I still like fusions as secondary weapons. The fusion collider is mildly attractive for keeping the model monopurpose and slightly less expensive, but the volume of d3 dmg shots is tough to ignore. In any case, I see myself being very aggressive with Ghsotkeels, deploying them relatively far forward with some drones dropping in front of them turn 1 and the Coldstar(s) slightly behind that. It's expensive, but they're seriously tough bodyguards for the cost, particularly if you can manage to keep the Stealth Drones alive.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I think I'd rather roll with a twin HBC Hammerhead, which will push about the same amount of damage - slightly less - every turn for 40-50pts more and is also way, way better against anything T6 or lower.

Are you assuming the buff to the HBC just rolls through to the hammerhead with no change to its point cost? If so, sure, it's probably going to be ridiculously overpowered until Forgeworld gets around to changing it, but I would caution against considering that anything more than a highly temporary buff.

If you've got a twin HBChead already, then by all means, "get while the getting is good" on it unintentionally massively benefiting from the riptide buff, but I wouldn't go out and buy one just to get those sweet sweet rules if you didn't actually want one for the model.

The life expectancy of that buff is going to be roughly equivalent to whatever date we see 4-5 spammed in a top tournament list + one month.

I have to agree with milkman. If only there had been a strategem to rearm a skyrays missiles. Then it might have been viable.

re-arming skyrays would have been way to strong. It's borderline on the 'summoning' problem we had at the end of last eddition.

I personally like the idea of mech'ed up tau, with a few seeker missiles all over the board over the skyray though.

the_scotsman wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
I don't see it as a downgrade, but all the hype around Skyrays is bunk, in my estimation. Under ideal conditions (5 markers), you're getting a devastating alpha strike that causes around 9 wounds to a T7/3+ platform. Awesome. So you ALMOST killed that Razorback with your 150pt model which is now a really expensive and durable Pathfinder unit.

I think there's something to be said for a 150 point model that really effectively does damage to another roughly equivalent model all at once on one turn. It's a tempo unit, giving up the sustained damage of the competition (ionhead) for turn one "burst" damage.

I don't think it works in every list, or in every meta, but if we start to see for example something like a Stormraven meta again, or deathstars reliant on psychic powers to boost up their defenses, I can see tossing in a skyray or two as a dedicated not too expensive counter.

When it comes to rando marker lights you slap on Devilfish or whatever, I see it as a straight upgrade from before. I often see hunter killers included on imperial vehicles just to add a bit of threat to an otherwise innocuous transport, and the same principle applies here. A nice one turn punch at a long range.

One of the things that, to me, makes it interesting is that it opens up like you said: a nice one turn punch at a long range.

It definitely might be able to counter the Alaitoc Flyer nonsense though. Do Skyrays have the Velocity Tracker on them or the option to take one?

 davou wrote:
re-arming skyrays would have been way to strong. It's borderline on the 'summoning' problem we had at the end of last eddition.

I personally like the idea of mech'ed up tau, with a few seeker missiles all over the board over the skyray though.

Eh. there are "A unit can only have this strategem used on it 1ce per game" so then you cant rearm ALL THE SKYRAYS! just 1, and only 1ce

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
I don't see it as a downgrade, but all the hype around Skyrays is bunk, in my estimation. Under ideal conditions (5 markers), you're getting a devastating alpha strike that causes around 9 wounds to a T7/3+ platform. Awesome. So you ALMOST killed that Razorback with your 150pt model which is now a really expensive and durable Pathfinder unit.

I think there's something to be said for a 150 point model that really effectively does damage to another roughly equivalent model all at once on one turn. It's a tempo unit, giving up the sustained damage of the competition (ionhead) for turn one "burst" damage.

I don't think it works in every list, or in every meta, but if we start to see for example something like a Stormraven meta again, or deathstars reliant on psychic powers to boost up their defenses, I can see tossing in a skyray or two as a dedicated not too expensive counter.

When it comes to rando marker lights you slap on Devilfish or whatever, I see it as a straight upgrade from before. I often see hunter killers included on imperial vehicles just to add a bit of threat to an otherwise innocuous transport, and the same principle applies here. A nice one turn punch at a long range.

One of the things that, to me, makes it interesting is that it opens up like you said: a nice one turn punch at a long range.

It definitely might be able to counter the Alaitoc Flyer nonsense though. Do Skyrays have the Velocity Tracker on them or the option to take one?

They have a VT stock, I believe. Chopping down flyers is really the only particularly good use I see for them, whether it's directly through their seekers or indirectly by added marker support.

To the above, yes, I expect the twin HBC Hammerheads to stay unchanged, points-wise. They're 70pts in IA: Xenos when the HBC was 55. Now that the HBC is 35, 70 for 2 HBCs seems pretty appropriate, right? I've been chirping about the HBC Hammerhead, but it doesn't seem to have gotten much notice. 24 S6, ap1 dmg2 shots is absolutely brutal. The 2 SMS (or drones or whatever) are just butter. It's 200pts for a serious buttload of firepower that probably hits on 2s if Longstrike is hanging out. That all assumes the points stay the same, of course, but I still think it'd be worthwhile for 30-40pts more.

 pumaman1 wrote:

 davou wrote:
re-arming skyrays would have been way to strong. It's borderline on the 'summoning' problem we had at the end of last eddition.

I personally like the idea of mech'ed up tau, with a few seeker missiles all over the board over the skyray though.

Eh. there are "A unit can only have this strategem used on it 1ce per game" so then you cant rearm ALL THE SKYRAYS! just 1, and only 1ce

Its still very strong. Basically for whatever number of command points you'd get a 150 point boost over the other person. Its debatable whether the rays one shooting attack is worth that 150 ish points, but it would ammount to getting a free second skyray minus the ML's

A strategem like that IMO would be better suited to the bomber. Let it drop double once per game for the command points.

MilkmanAl wrote:
They have a VT stock, I believe. Chopping down flyers is really the only particularly good use I see for them, whether it's directly through their seekers or indirectly by added marker support.

Given everything that has "Fly" now(and how VT likely is worded to target "Fly" items), that makes them quite the skysweepers I think.

pumaman1 wrote:Eh. there are "A unit can only have this strategem used on it 1ce per game" so then you cant rearm ALL THE SKYRAYS! just 1, and only 1ce

I think it would have been a cool thing for there to be a stratagem you could play on a Devilfish to allow it to 'rearm' a nearby Skyray or other model with Seeker Missiles.

 davou wrote:

 pumaman1 wrote:

 davou wrote:
re-arming skyrays would have been way to strong. It's borderline on the 'summoning' problem we had at the end of last eddition.

I personally like the idea of mech'ed up tau, with a few seeker missiles all over the board over the skyray though.

Eh. there are "A unit can only have this strategem used on it 1ce per game" so then you cant rearm ALL THE SKYRAYS! just 1, and only 1ce

Its still very strong. Basically for whatever number of command points you'd get a 150 point boost over the other person. Its debatable whether the rays one shooting attack is worth that 150 ish points, but it would ammount to getting a free second skyray minus the ML's

A stratagem like that IMO would be better suited to the bomber. Let it drop double once per game for the command points.

assuming they don't have a good invul and flat out negate 50%-66% of hits. then its just a huge waste of points. a whole 30 points in missiles for the cost of a stratagem.

One consideration for skyrays is to ram shooting units with them. I haven't seen someone bringing that up yet. Alpha with your missiles and then send it to the front. If the opponent kills it then they spent shots on a neutered tank. If they don't you charge heavy shooting units. Devs, Russes, razorbacks, etc. You can just fall back and shoot next turn if you're still in melee. I do it all the time with devilfish.

Given seeker missiles can be added 2 to almost any vehical and 1 per broadsides why would you need a skyray. Its essentially 2 markerlights thats a hard pass. Firesight marksmen are hitting on 3's are charictor and get past all that -2 to hit for the high price of 26 points* they give hard to kill markerlights and cheap vanguard detachments for max commanders.

*assuming I managed to get the right price from the leaks.

It's definitely not optimal, but it's an option in regular games. With markerlights the missiles hit on the vehicle's BS so unless you're taking hammerheads too the missiles will hit on 4's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I think we'll end up with is a template Brigade that every list starts from and then adds/upgrade/replaces with what they want their list to do.

2 Fireblades
1 Commander

6 5-man Fire Warrior Teams

3 5-man Pathfinder Teams

3 Firesight Marksmen

3 3-man Sniper Drone Teams


That's about 725 points before the Commander's gear. Just add in stuff to make the list how you want. Add suits, swap some sniper drones for tanks or broadsides, max out the fire warrior teams if you want an infantry heavy list. Most of the time add another detachment to get a second commander, etc. In a 2k point game I can't see too much of a reason not to take a brigade.

Tau have a nice benefit where all our cheap filler units are actually pretty decent. 30 fire warriors can hold objectives and throw out shots, still not a terrible troops setup if you choose not to max them out and run a lot of them. Fireblades are 2+ markerlights even if you aren't using them to buff a large group of FWs. Marksmen are 3+ markerlights that can hide. Sniper Drone teams are actually pretty solid snipers. S5, 48" range rapid fire. You can move and shoot with no penalty and you're likely to have several marksmen for them. They get the sniper shot mortal wounds now. Pathfinders are still cheap markerlights with a vanguard move. You can use them to help block off deep strikes if you really need to. At 8ppm it's not a huge loss if they have to be sacrificed for that, or they can hang back and just spam markers most games where the FW's can screen well enough. None of the Brigade filler units are just wasted space to get CPs.

MilkmanAl wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
I don't see it as a downgrade, but all the hype around Skyrays is bunk, in my estimation. Under ideal conditions (5 markers), you're getting a devastating alpha strike that causes around 9 wounds to a T7/3+ platform. Awesome. So you ALMOST killed that Razorback with your 150pt model which is now a really expensive and durable Pathfinder unit.

I think there's something to be said for a 150 point model that really effectively does damage to another roughly equivalent model all at once on one turn. It's a tempo unit, giving up the sustained damage of the competition (ionhead) for turn one "burst" damage.

I don't think it works in every list, or in every meta, but if we start to see for example something like a Stormraven meta again, or deathstars reliant on psychic powers to boost up their defenses, I can see tossing in a skyray or two as a dedicated not too expensive counter.

When it comes to rando marker lights you slap on Devilfish or whatever, I see it as a straight upgrade from before. I often see hunter killers included on imperial vehicles just to add a bit of threat to an otherwise innocuous transport, and the same principle applies here. A nice one turn punch at a long range.

One of the things that, to me, makes it interesting is that it opens up like you said: a nice one turn punch at a long range.

It definitely might be able to counter the Alaitoc Flyer nonsense though. Do Skyrays have the Velocity Tracker on them or the option to take one?

They have a VT stock, I believe. Chopping down flyers is really the only particularly good use I see for them, whether it's directly through their seekers or indirectly by added marker support.

To the above, yes, I expect the twin HBC Hammerheads to stay unchanged, points-wise. They're 70pts in IA: Xenos when the HBC was 55. Now that the HBC is 35, 70 for 2 HBCs seems pretty appropriate, right? I've been chirping about the HBC Hammerhead, but it doesn't seem to have gotten much notice. 24 S6, ap1 dmg2 shots is absolutely brutal. The 2 SMS (or drones or whatever) are just butter. It's 200pts for a serious buttload of firepower that probably hits on 2s if Longstrike is hanging out. That all assumes the points stay the same, of course, but I still think it'd be worthwhile for 30-40pts more.

PPD = Points per damage (Useful for multi-wound)
PPU = Points per unsaved (Useful for single wound)

Assuming 200 pt cost;

T7-9/3+ 50 PPD/100PPU
T6/2+/4++ 50 PPD/100PPU
T4-5/3+ 25PPD/50PPU

HRR Broadside w/ SMS
T8/3+ 51PPD/107PPU
T7/3+ 38PPD/80PPU
T6/2+/4+ 77PPD/160PPU
T4/3+ 41PPD/100PPU

Numbers are really comparable, HBC has range and volume advantage. I think it sits pretty firmly in the viable, and possibly competitive group that a good amount of Tau stuff is sitting at right now.

How are the point cost of Riptide Y'Vahra affected by the new codex (and subsequent reduction in base cost of a riptide)?

Had my first game with new Tau tonight. Opponent was gracious to let me use the leaked point and rules. I took the following:



My opponent had a gunline tyranid army running jormungdr and kronus


I won roll off for first turn. I aggressively ( too aggressively in hindsight)moved the coldstars up behind the stealthsuits. First round shooting was less then stellar. Half killed one exocrine, killed one unit of hive guard, a bunch of guants, and 2 warriors.

His turn the flyrants came in, the guants and warriors moved up. He smited/screamed my stealth suits away and then blasted my three commanders. Killed one in shooting, then failed to do much else ghostkeels took 2 wounds lost 3 Pathfinders, and a broadside survived one of the exocrine shooting twice with 2 wounds left ( bad rolls on his part). Flyrant double charged my two remaining exposed commanders and a warrior squad supported as well. Killed both (definitely too aggressive).

Turn 2 I opened up with everything. Five marked one tyrant and the broadsides did 9 damage each. Dead flyrant. Fire warriors killed all but the prime and 2 warriors as well as the guants. Riptide finished off the wounded exocrine and that ended my shooting phase. At this point my opponent conceded feeling that he didn't have the ability to get through my line.

Overall a good game but I feel that Tau should be able to out shoot nids. I need to not throw my commanders out right away and wait until better targets are available. -1 to hit is a problem but with the malenthope small bubble it didn't impact things to much.

notredameguy10 wrote:
How are the point cost of Riptide Y'Vahra affected by the new codex (and subsequent reduction in base cost of a riptide)?

Different units so they are unaffected.

 FirePainter wrote:
Had my first game with new Tau tonight. Opponent was gracious to let me use the leaked point and rules. I took the following:

Spoiler:

Bork'an Battalion
Coldstar w/ 3 ion & relic plasma
Fireblade w/ puretide chip
3x8 fire warriors
Burstide w/ ats & tl
2x missilesides 2/ ats

Bork'an Battalion
Coldstar w/ quad fusion
Fireblade
3x8 fire warriors
ghostkeel w/ ion &burst ats & tl
2x5 pathfinders w/ pulse drone

Vior'la Vanguard
Coldstar w/ 4 ion
2x3 stealth teams
2 firesight marksmen

My opponent had a gunline tyranid army running jormungdr and kronus

Spoiler:

Battalion
Malenthrope
Nuerothrope
Prime w/ BS and deathspitter
2x 20 guants
3x3 warriors w/ deathspitter BS and 1 venom cannon each

Spearhead
2x flyrant w/ rending claws and devourers
2x exocrine
2 biovores
2x 3 hive guard ( 1 with impalers the other with shock cannons)

I won roll off for first turn. I aggressively ( too aggressively in hindsight)moved the coldstars up behind the stealthsuits. First round shooting was less then stellar. Half killed one exocrine, killed one unit of hive guard, a bunch of guants, and 2 warriors.

His turn the flyrants came in, the guants and warriors moved up. He smited/screamed my stealth suits away and then blasted my three commanders. Killed one in shooting, then failed to do much else ghostkeels took 2 wounds lost 3 Pathfinders, and a broadside survived one of the exocrine shooting twice with 2 wounds left ( bad rolls on his part). Flyrant double charged my two remaining exposed commanders and a warrior squad supported as well. Killed both (definitely too aggressive).

Turn 2 I opened up with everything. Five marked one tyrant and the broadsides did 9 damage each. Dead flyrant. Fire warriors killed all but the prime and 2 warriors as well as the guants. Riptide finished off the wounded exocrine and that ended my shooting phase. At this point my opponent conceded feeling that he didn't have the ability to get through my line.

Overall a good game but I feel that Tau should be able to out shoot nids. I need to not throw my commanders out right away and wait until better targets are available. -1 to hit is a problem but with the malenthope small bubble it didn't impact things to much.

I thought it was found out that Coldstars can't take Ion?