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 GeckoDragon wrote:
From what i can gather, shield drones for the GhostKeel make an already difficult to kill model absurdly diffcult to kill. The only issue is that the GhostKeel can't take drones with it (beyond its stealth drones) to its infiltrated start position. However if you pair it with a unit of stealthsuits, they are able to take a few drones that can then immidiately move to cover the 'Keel. In this arrangement you get to use the wall of mirrors strategem as well.

Take a separate unit of shield drones and manta strike them to the suits when you need. Protects them and gives you a lot of on demand help. It's rarely worth taking tactical drones (shield, gun, marker) within other units - usually better to just take a separate unit.

 GeckoDragon wrote:
Speaking of drones, i'm putting together a broadside kit and i've noted that it (along with the riptide) get special "missile drones". Is it worth assembling these missile drones for the extra dakka alongside a HYMP broadside or are they a little too expensive for their points and I should focus instead on turning them into the shield and marker drones that my 5th edition army still so sorely lacks.

Magnetize, buddy. Missile pods aren't super valuable right now, but if you magnetize it will ensure you can use that in the event something changes down the line.

Ice_can wrote:
Terrain doesn't matter to non line of sight weapons like mortars. From very little to full can't place a LOW base cityscapes, but normally probably actually a higher level than most tournament tables as it usually still looks too bare with tournament terrain.

Hide one behind the Keel itself, for one. Second, those non LOS weapons will fire at something. They don't just give up because you didn't take stealth drones lol. It's actually way better that they focus on your -1 to hit cheapo unit that is likely in cover rather than punching a hole in your deep strike denial screen. Let them focus units with literally zero offensive power.

Wolf Lord Balrog wrote:
Has anybody thought about pairing one of the larger battlesuits (Ghostkeel, Riptide, Y'vahra) with a unit of drones to enhance its durability even further? People tend to be disproportionately afraid of big gribblies as it goes, it could increase their troll-factor even more if they could suck up even more firepower, while the rest of your army does the real work.

From an opponent's perspective, I have played against three different variations of this in the last week or so, with different combinations of Riptides and Y'vahras, in ITC events or practice. At least in that format it seems very rock-paper-scissors-y in that if your opponent is assault based and has to eat the 14" flamers (assuming Bork'an) it is quite deadly. If your opponent can chew through the drones quickly, with the points invested in the suits, commanders and drones there is hardly anything else on the table and once the drones are gone the big suits are not far behind. Your enjoyment of that playstyle will probably depend on whether you are ok with that or not.

So I have been watching a lot of tau battle reports and one thing I notice in all of them is firewarriors go away turn 1. What is the best way to deal with this? Devil fish? or is it better to just take more firewarriors? How about a drone port so they can still fire while being protected?

 lambsandlions wrote:
So I have been watching a lot of tau battle reports and one thing I notice in all of them is firewarriors go away turn 1. What is the best way to deal with this? Devil fish? or is it better to just take more firewarriors? How about a drone port so they can still fire while being protected?

Not seen this personally, but I've watched *Pathfinders* melt.

The things I tend to see are A) far too few of them and B) they're set way too far forward. Fire Warriors set up 18" from the enemy are nearly in doubletap range ... but are also in a position where, if the other guy goes first, are in *their* doubletap range. Why be so close when you can shoot two and a half feet away? Pathfinders are even worse, set up ahead, admittedly in cover, but with 36" markerlights, why start 15" away? Hang back in your own lines, and DEEP in your lines... you have the range advantage. You don't *need* to advance and fire: Let them come to you. Longer the game goes, the more advantage your long-ranged guns are.

Have a 12" deployment zone? Feel free to set up most of your stuff 3" in: This creates a 33" gap. If you go first, a small step forward and you can shoot. If you don't? Most other armies can't hit you with anything but anti-tank fire and first-turn charges just don't happen at that range. It's *possible*, with a series of perfect rolls, but even with Tyranid or Ork rerolls, scoring several 6" advances and 12" charges just ain't likely and when only one makes it? Well, Greater Good gonna represent, y'all.

And if they fizzle?

Markerlight, Cadre Fireblade, and doubletap for DAYS.

You have 30" guns. You have 36" markerlights and 72" heavy weapons. Use the range you pay for!

 lambsandlions wrote:
So I have been watching a lot of tau battle reports and one thing I notice in all of them is firewarriors go away turn 1. What is the best way to deal with this? Devil fish? or is it better to just take more firewarriors? How about a drone port so they can still fire while being protected?

It will also depend on the channel as I've seen a few channels where they covered tournament games and their "normal content" games are much more terrain, less optomised lists and generally more fluffy than crunch.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Fair enough! I do sort of like the idea of a small Viorla Battalion rushing forward to dump a ton of S5 out, but I think you need at least 2 units to make that strategy viable. I guess the question I'd have in that case is if 12+d6" of movement is enough to reliably get you within 15" of a target. If so, you can save points on Devilfish and just run your Strikers up the board. They're more fragile that way, but they also get to shoot after the first turn instead of squatting in a Devilfish. If that's not good enough, is the extra 3" from being in a Devilfish enough to allow you to start double-firing all over the place on turn 2?

Regardless of how you get there, I like the idea of Ghostkeels running interference and posing a forward threat. They're potentially rock solid for the cost and make your Fire Warriors much less interesting to your opponent.

Thanks!

I won't claim any tactical genius as I got lucky with a few charges (Blood Angels failed the 3d6 charge from deep strike), but the list performed admirably and near tabled the BA. Ghostkeels attracted the attention and charges, stealth suits and drones played objectives and surrounded the commanders. The combination of 5 marker hits and cyclic weapons wiped sanguinary guard fast.

Opinions on the following list my good fellows. The Ta'u cept guys hang to the rear or a flank and basically say "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT CHARGE/DEEPSTRIKE"

all the marker drones hang around droneforcer commander and the fire warriors run around with buffs, spraying away infantry at every opportunity.


+++ Fish of Fury (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [120 PL, 2000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

T'au Empire Sept Choice: Bork'an Sept

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade: Markerlight, 2x MV7 Marker Drone

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: 4x Fusion blaster

+ Troops +

Strike Team: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Tactical Drones: 5x MV1 Gun Drone

Tactical Drones: 6x MV1 Gun Drone

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Emergency Dispensation (1 Relic)

T'au Empire Sept Choice: Bork'an Sept

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade: Markerlight, 2x MV7 Marker Drone

Commander in XV85 Enforcer battlesuit: Drone controller, Plasma accelerator rifle (replaces 1 plasma rifle), 3x Plasma rifle, Seeker of Perfection (Bork'an), Warlord

Ethereal: Honour blade

+ Troops +

Strike Team: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 6x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

T'au Empire Sept Choice: T'au Sept

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: 4x Burst cannon, 2x MV7 Marker Drone, Vectored manoeuvring thrusters

+ Elites +

XV104 Riptide Battlesuit: 2x Fusion blaster, Early warning override, Heavy burst cannon

XV104 Riptide Battlesuit: 2x Fusion blaster, Early warning override, Heavy burst cannon

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Burst cannon
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Fusion blaster: Fusion blaster
. Stealth Shas'vre: Burst cannon

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Burst cannon, Cyclic ion raker, Early warning override, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Just wondering what are peoples thoughts on the best support systems for a Y'vahra?

For a Borkan Y'Vahra, I feel like an EWO is basically required. I don't know how popular that sentiment is just yet, but I'm sticking with it! It's an incredible defensive option since you're basically forcing your opponent to either deep strike a huge unit of chaff or multiple units within its bubble if they want to be close. As for the secondary choice, stims from the index or ATS are probably the best options.

MilkmanAl wrote:
For a Borkan Y'Vahra, I feel like an EWO is basically required. I don't know how popular that sentiment is just yet, but I'm sticking with it! It's an incredible defensive option since you're basically forcing your opponent to either deep strike a huge unit of chaff or multiple units within its bubble if they want to be close. As for the secondary choice, stims from the index or ATS are probably the best options.

Cheers I'm thinking stims from the index to improve survivability.
Just was having the what am I missing moment.

ATS obviously - then you have a choice.

In looking at the Yvahra I think most the time you are going to be overcharging the anti tank weapon(it simply gets way more out of it) - so target lock is probably going to be mandatory.

Someone can just avoid your yvharas EWO - use sheild drones to protect from alpha strike.

Ice_can wrote:

Cheers I'm thinking stims from the index to improve survivability.
Just was having the what am I missing moment.

is that alowed?

How often do you realy need -4 AP? It's never something I've found a serious issue -2 is enough to push anything with an invo to its invo and most of my targets are down to 5+ or 6+ saves with -2 AP anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Cheers I'm thinking stims from the index to improve survivability.
Just was having the what am I missing moment.

is that alowed?

Thanks to the designers flow chart thing yes

See page 6 https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

So I have started using Kau'yon on turn 1 an it is so crazy powerful. I am running a list with a 4 fusion coldstar and 2 riptides. Originally I was declaring Mont'ka turn 1 and boosting my commander 40". He would do some damage and I would have him SJS into a pack of shield drones but he would always die as the opponents whole army turned to face him. Now I am putting the commander and two riptides within 6" and declaring Kau'yon turn 1, as I am also out of range for my fusion blasters I also use C&C node on one of the riptides. Kau'yon on two riptides is like shooting normally with three riptides. C&C node really amps up the power of things, you do 1/2 more damage against t6 and 2/3s more damage against t7 and t8 targets!

Charging your coldstar out turn 2 instead of turn 1 is also just a smart idea as he is much easier to keep alive and can better focus down specific targets.

I have seen some lists using shadowsun for double kau'yon which is interesting because of how powerful it is but I feel losing two turns of movement is just too much. Also a coldstar commander is so much better than shadowsun after kau'yon has been called. More over he drones are nothing to write home about.

Personally, I think declaring Kauyon depends on whether or not you go first. If I go second, I feel that declaring it first turn is great – especially as most armies would have moved towards you by this point. It requires a good amount of screening, but, the hit can be extremely hard.

If I go first though, I feel, most of the time, I am out of range/LoS for the most effective fire power. If you’re running several Riptides and/or Broadsides, it would prob be more viable first turn though.

Kdash wrote:
Personally, I think declaring Kauyon depends on whether or not you go first. If I go second, I feel that declaring it first turn is great – especially as most armies would have moved towards you by this point. It requires a good amount of screening, but, the hit can be extremely hard.

If I go first though, I feel, most of the time, I am out of range/LoS for the most effective fire power. If you’re running several Riptides and/or Broadsides, it would prob be more viable first turn though.

Heavy burst cannon is 36" range, while you may be out of LoS, out of range is not too much of a problem. We also tend to have a lot of drops meaning we go second a lot but also we can more reactively deploy. I run multiple small units of firewarriors so those are good to put down before you commit to where you want to put your riptides.

Ice_can wrote:

 davou wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Cheers I'm thinking stims from the index to improve survivability.
Just was having the what am I missing moment.

is that alowed?

Thanks to the designers flow chart thing yes

See page 6 https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Absolutely not. Page six clearly says if a war gear option is still in the codex you can't use the index version. Stimm injectors made the transition.

On which page would you say they are on in the codex?

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 davou wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Cheers I'm thinking stims from the index to improve survivability.
Just was having the what am I missing moment.

is that alowed?

Thanks to the designers flow chart thing yes

See page 6 https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Absolutely not. Page six clearly says if a war gear option is still in the codex you can't use the index version. Stimm injectors made the transition.

Where is Stimulant Injector mentioned under wargear?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 davou wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Cheers I'm thinking stims from the index to improve survivability.
Just was having the what am I missing moment.

is that alowed?

Thanks to the designers flow chart thing yes

See page 6 https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Absolutely not. Page six clearly says if a war gear option is still in the codex you can't use the index version. Stimm injectors made the transition.

Where is Stimulant Injector mentioned under wargear?

Stratagems represent wargear and I was told count as wargear as well.

Since when and by who?

well either way, I don't like them on just a 6+

Ice_can wrote:
Since when and by who?

GW have made a number of references that some Stratagems represent wargear that is only able to be used a limited amount of times in battle. When the Tau codex came out in the official warhammer TV channel there was a talk about Stimulant Injector and how the Stratagems represented limited used wargear.

Pottsey wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Since when and by who?

GW have made a number of references that some Stratagems represent wargear that is only able to be used a limited amount of times in battle. When the Tau codex came out in the official warhammer TV channel there was a talk about Stimulant Injector and how the Stratagems represented limited used wargear.

That is fluff, not rules.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Pottsey wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Since when and by who?

GW have made a number of references that some Stratagems represent wargear that is only able to be used a limited amount of times in battle. When the Tau codex came out in the official warhammer TV channel there was a talk about Stimulant Injector and how the Stratagems represented limited used wargear.

That is fluff, not rules.

The FAQ now says no.

Also in a totally expected turn of events, the Coldstar was errata'd.

At least we won't have any muppets putting 5 weapons on their Coldstars any more.

Q: In Index: Xenos 2, the Stimulant Injector was a piece
of wargear that I could purchase for certain T’au Empire
units. In Codex: T’au Empire, the Stimulant Injector is
no longer a wargear option, but instead there is a Stimulant
Injector Stratagem. Can I continue to use the Index: Xenos 2
datasheets in order to purchase Stimulant Injectors for my units,
as per the ‘What datasheet rules should I use?’ flowchart?
A: No. You cannot purchase Stimulant Injectors
anymore and the rules for Stimulant Injectors as
presented in Codex: T’au Empire (i.e. the Stratagem)
take precedence.

Yeah, no more index stim injectors.

Jacksmiles wrote:


Also in a totally expected turn of events, the Coldstar was errata'd.

I'm comparing the wording in the FAQ to my codex and they appear identical. Am I missing something, or did I just get a late printing or something?

Edit: Nevermind, I see it now: It says "and" rather than "and/or". It never occurred to me that some toolbag might try to interpret that as allowing five weapons, I thought the intent of the wording was pretty clear. I guess a clarification is good.

On the upside, the CIB got a bit of a bit of buff, only a single Mortal Wound per phase per weapon no matter how many 1s you roll.

On the downside, no revision of the stupid Commander limit, no points drop for Crisis suits or their weapons, and while Battalions and Brigades now give more Command Points, the new Matched Play rules severely restrict spamming the same Detachment or Datasheet. Its now impossible to field more than 3 of anything (except Troops and Dedicated Transports), unless you have specific house/tournament rules to the contrary.

They now have two documents in direct contradiction to them selfs and this is only a nerf to TAU. And stim injectors so tow have zero defence against mortal wounds cheers GW.
There rules writing is getting worse as 8th edition continues.

I think it's best just to play matched without all the stupid things GW keeps on adding.